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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

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Comments

  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    I currently own a 2006 Zephyr. I'm very pleased with the car (a sleeker body would be nice). The 2007 has my interest. More powerful and refined engine, better fuel economy, and if you drive 500 miles a week to and from work like I do, the larger gas tank is quite helpful. Also, I regret not getting the cooled seats. However, in Lincoln's promo they state that the MKZ will have higher rated springs etc. for a more performance feel. To me that means a stiffer ride which I absolutely don't want. The uncomfortable ride was the thing I disliked the most about my Maxima and I really like the ride comfort of my Zeph. I believe handling and ride comfort are inversely proportional (if the handling goes up, ride goes down).
    Does anyone have any idea what Lincoln means by more performance oriented? How much is the ride going to suffer? A quick 10 minute test drive may not reveal the true ride characteristics especially if the particular roads travelled are nicely paved. I don't want to go back to the harsh ride of the Maxima.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Where does it say the gas tank will be bigger? Didn't see that and I'd be surprised if that changed.

    The suspension will be much closer to the Fusion, so test drive one of those and you'll get a better idea. The Fusion suspension isn't harsh by any means but it's not floaty, either. I think it will be sporty without being harsh, but only you can decide if you like it or not.
  • tiger16tiger16 Member Posts: 54
    See link for specs:
    http://media.ford.com/products/model.cfm
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Interesting - 17.5 to 20 gallons. It might be a typo, though - they make a lot of those. We'll know in a few months.
  • displacedtexandisplacedtexan Member Posts: 364
    ...Ford which in America stands for Fix Or Repair Daily

    I sure don't pick up on that. When I hear people talking about Ford, it's generally to say, along with GM, that as a company it's on its way out (thank you mainstream media for perpetuating that) and that the cars are boring compared to DaimlerChrysler. In casual conversation I rarely hear reliability talked about.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You generally only hear that from the Chevy fans.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yep. Along with Found on Road Dead.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    Did anyone catch the Zephyr review in inside line here on edmunds. Is it me or did the black Zephyr they were using photograph really well. What a georgeous car in black. Review was actually ok, cant wait till the 3.5L gets here, im sure the MKZ will get the praise that it deserves. But honestly 7.5 sec's to 60 is not bad at all. And they also commented on how the 3.0L didnt sound as harsh as in the fusion/milan. Must be the add'l sound deadening at work.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    if HP does not sell cars then all cars would have the same hp and it would be around 80, probably 150 for trucks.

    You are smarter than that statement ANT, Ford and GM would not be hauling you know what to catch up with HP and there would be no point for newer fuel saving engine tech unless it can be used to unlock more power while keeping fuel economy good.

    Oh yeah, and if HP does not sell cars no one would make pony cars.

    Now, the fact that Ford has this 260+ hp enigne in the stable is good news, we need to see them keep up the work on it, like GM is doing with its 3.6 (now it will have DI!) and Nisan is doing with VQ, and of course Toyota.

    HP is one of the major selling points of a car. It may be second to quality (durability, problems per car) but its relative and depends on the quality/hp differences.

    Most surverys continuously rate HP as one of the major selling points of cars.

    Look at this:
    Click Here for a European Survey

    The survey showed overall that “Safety” was the most important aspect influencing their choice. This was closely followed by “Reliability.” Germany and Great Britain were the only countries where consumers placed reliability, just ahead of safety.

    The next most important aspects were “Performance/Road holding” and “Running costs.” In all countries, these two aspects were placed in either third or fourth place. Much lower in importance were, “Prestige and Quality,” “Styling” and “Air Conditioning”, followed by “Audio systems” and “Satellite navigation.”

    I took this survey because gas is even MORE important there, and look still performance is just below saftey and reliability.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    You can't expect Ford to top on horsepower in all segments, I keep mentioning how there's other fires that need to be put out, not just horsepower. There are options, if you feel Ford isn't doing enough for YOU with horsepower, there are other brands.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    HP is one of the major selling points of a car.

    So please explain the following FACTS:

    V6 mustangs outsell V8 mustangs

    4 out of every 5 Camrys are 4 cylinder models - same with the Accord.

    In almost every vehicle where you have a base engine and a high performance engine the base engine will outsell the high performance engine.

    The vast majority of the car buying public doesn't give a rats behind about performance - they just want safe, reliable transportation.

    HP is good for some vehicles and will always appeal to a small number of potential vehicle buyers. It's more important to car magazines and reviewers, but that doesn't necessarily translate to sales. And some people prefer better handling to more horsepower.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    All true. But Pavel has a point. If all people wanted was only the rational stuff, Ford wouldn't be in such a pickle.

    BTW, I see the Mustang demand exceeding supply situation is over. Too bad for Ford. They have never seemed to understand that new 2 door coupes lose their cache in about 18 months. If you are going to have a consistent winner in this arena, you have to revamp the thing every 3 years at a minimum.
  • whateverdudewhateverdude Member Posts: 2
    "The vast majority of the car buying public doesn't give a rats behind about performance - they just want safe, reliable transportation."

    I don't think that's quite true. High(er) performance is a luxury item, just like leather seating, moonroofs, alloy wheels, etc. Most people don't opt for it because they either can't afford it or don't think it's worth the extra expense, but that doesn't mean they don't care about it. Especially as you go up the price ladder, people expect cars to be more powerful.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Whether they don't care about it, can't afford it or have other priorities, the fact remains that having more horsepower doesn't sell more cars. If it did the Altima would have overtaken the Accord and Camry a few years ago.

    Don't get me wrong - I think it's good to have the option in most cars and it will sell a few more units to the enthusiast crowd, but it's not going to make a huge difference. Styling, quality and equipment make a much bigger difference.
  • ace35ace35 Member Posts: 131
    But i think what you fail to relize is, when you consider that your purchasing a "premium" vehicle, it becomes a requisite of the class to have a premium engine. NOT an option. Your comparing a altima, which is a day to day midsize vehicle, a Zephyr is a entry luxury vehicle and when you step into that field of vehicle some things are just mandatory to compete.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    So why does the E320 outsell the E500 which outsells the E55?

    Why does the 530i outsell the 545i which outsells the M5?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    So why does the E320 outsell the E500 which outsells the E55? Why does the 530i outsell the 545i which outsells the M5?

    And don't forget the V-6 outselling the V-8 Mustang. Or the v-6 Charger and Magnum outselling the Hemi

    Here's a news-flash and your answer: Performance gives a car-line credibility with consumers. That's why manufacturers support racing. Everyone knows race cars are not sold in the showroom, but racing improves the image of the product.

    If there weren't V-8 Mustangs doing burnouts in every Ford ad, the V-6's wouldn't sell nearly as well either.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    V6 mustangs outsell V8's b/c more people can afford them. But if a V8 mustang did not beat the 350Z in an edmunds comparo, many people would't look at a mustang at all.

    The higher versions of these cars raise the image of the whole car, and people go to the dealership looking for the car in the mags, but wind up buying what they can afford.

    HP is a major factor in selling cars, just as reliability is as well. If the differences are minor (like with the nissan Altima and say the Camry) then other facotrs can outweigh it, such as toyotas are better built than nissans and have more dealers.

    It also depends on the class of car, but either was HP is a large and ever present factor in the car buying process. It can be argued that Nissan got back on the map through the VQ engines. No one cared about nissan much untill they offerred more power at a lower price with a seemingly more sophisticated engine.

    Now they are upping the ante again. Care to wonder why? Am i saying HP is the onoly factor.. NO. But saying HP does not sell cars is just... well... wrong. And if Ford really thought this way it would have been dead along time ago.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    I think Nissan would be the first to disagree with you that HP doesn't sell cars. It seems to me that the "winners"; Honda, Toyota, and Nissan to some extent are pumping HP in their cars. Loo kat the RAV4, look at the Camry, look at the Accord, etc. Ford and GM need to STOP telling people that hp doesn't matter when Toyota is crushing them and adding more hp. Don't you think Toyota knows more about the market than we do... you know the whole thing about them being the juggernaut in the market aside. Hosrepower doesn't sell cars but it sure helps. All our tv, all our comparos are about going fast. Buyers read the comparisons and take away what they can. The slow cars get panned, the faster cars get elevated, this is how it is. How can you say anything about hp selling cars when your local Toyota dealer (you know the people selling them hand over fist) would be the first to tell you that the Toyota is faster in his sales pitch. People look at the top end model and then come down to their needs.

    1. V6 Mustang does outsell the V8 but would Ford dare not have a potent Mustang V8 to drive sales. Think of it as the sexy lady that lures you in.

    2. Honda and Toyota also lead the segment in horsepower.

    3. Have you seen why buyers don't buy 500, it isn't just style. It is also a slow mule. Look at Hemi sales and talk to me again. You are telling me hp doesn't sell cars, Dodge is saying something different. The Hemi insignia is a halo that drives marketing and "word on the street" advertising and helps to sell the rest.

    There are people that couldn't tell you what models Nissan sells but know they make a VQ engine, why is that? Performance sells in America. Even our fout cylinders are faster than the base cars in other countries. I analyze companies all day at work. Many of them that make a turn around, look at the market leaders and do what they do. Camry V6 269hp, any questions?
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    exalteddragon, we were typing at the same time. I agree 100% and exalt you. :)
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    Look also at GM. THey are putting serious power in their vehicles now. "High feature V6"s and "High feature V8"s are propping up everywhere. Even on blueoval a Ford website, people are questioning why buy a Navigator when the Escalade has 100 more horse and better gas mileage. The LAST thing you want to do as a company is be at the end of the line to join the boat. Look at Ford itself, in a press report Ford(I think he knows a little bit about it) said that the Hurricane was back on track to defend the F150 against competition. I thought hp didn't sell cars. The Edge is debuing with 265hp, second top in its class with NO FOUR CYLINDER OPTION! I thought hp didn't sell cars. I thought I thought GM was switching a lot of cars to rear wheel drive with more power, I thought they introduced an Impala SS with over 300hp in a family sedan!!! Again, I thought hp doesn't sell cars. Either all of them; Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, Acura, Lexus, BMW, Merc, Chrysler, Dodge, Nissan, Infiniti, and Mazda are really stupid and are wasting money (V6s are more to produce than 4 cyl) or you all just have it wrong. I put my faith in the former.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    All hail driverdm!
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    Horsepower is addictive. I drove a company Taurus for two years and thought it was OK power-wise. Then drove an Intrepid for two years and couldn't figure out why I thought the Taurus was adequate. I now drive a 300C. Am definitely going to be in trouble when it comes time to replacing it....
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I am driving a rental 300c right now. When I shut the trunk it sounds like a tin can. Does not feel as solid as my Zephyr!
  • rj123456rj123456 Member Posts: 140
    I got my 2006 Zephyr on Memorial Day. Overall, quite satisfied with the car, but two issues have been bugging me.

    a) MPG: On my first tankful I have only averaged 19.7 mpg per the readout on the dash. This is for about evenly mixed highway and city driving. The EPA ratings are 28/20. I was hoping to come in around 22.

    Does the mpg get better over time?

    On a related note, I'm a little miffed that Lincoln only shows average MPG and not instantaneous MPG - even my GMC Envoy shows both. But then Ford's "gizmo" levels are always lower than GMs or Toyota for that matter.

    b) The airconditioning seems "weak". Admittedly we have had a few near 90 degree days, but it seems like the air coming out of the AC vents isn't as cold as it in the other vehicles we have (1995 Saab 900 & 2002 GMC Envoy). Also to keep it cool on these warm days I have to have the fan running at a very high setting, which is very noisy. In the other vehicles I can reduce the fan speed after they have cooled down and they maintain their temperature better.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Why are you not using the automatic climate control? It very effectively cools down the car and then reduces the fan speed to the minimum necessary.

    I'm curious...
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Make sure your on recirculation mode, it's quicker to cool the cabin and uses less power overall. Plus, when you slam it on the highest fan speed, the air might not be as cold, is having it in the automatic mode. In most car A/C systems, the upper 2 settings your getting refreshed by the actual blowing, but not as much cooling. I would suggest maybe setting it to 72, recirculation mode and auto.

    And when you DO reach 72, and it's STILL in the lowest fan setting, what the system does is inject hot air (captured from the heat in the mechanicals) and injects it to keep it at 72... And this is because your at the lowest fan setting, and the setting of 72 has been kept.

    I'm in FL and that's the best method I have found for it.

    And of course, turn on the cooled A/C settings, that usually helps.
  • rj123456rj123456 Member Posts: 140
    I am using the automatic climate control. I have it set to 67 degrees. (Do you need to set it each time you enter the car??) And the cooling the seat definitely helps. I usually do NOT use the recirc mode, I will try that.

    BUT...the point I'm making is that I cool down much faster in either my 12-year old Saab or my 4-year old GMC Envoy. The former doesn't have automatic climate control, I just roll down the windows, turn on the AC (no recirc - I like fresh air) and roll up the windows after driving a few hundred feet. And it usually feels fine. On the Envoy I let the auto climate control do its thing.

    In either, I'll occasionally run the fans faster but I always turn them down in a few minutes.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    My early 90's Mustangs/Tbird A/C's were freezers...I loved the illegal freon I would inject into it. How times have changed due to global warming....

    These newer systems take other factors into account, mainly fuel mileage as well. Definately (and as in all Ford products) use recirculation. It cools the cabin quicker since your already taking cooler air, and cooling it ever more. With out, your taking hot outside air, and trying to cool it and it affects fuel mileage as well.

    One thing on the reciruclation button. ON most Fords, you set it and forget it. Unfortunately on my LS, I have to reset it inside each time I turn on the vehicle.

    I usually put my sunroof in the "vent" position and that helps. I also have remote starter, so I have everything going by the time I get in.

    You also have "Global" roll down windows. Holding down the UNOOCK button on your keyfob for more than 5 seconds makes all windows and sunroof open, and that should help before entering, then just raise it as you drive down the street a bit.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    I believe the discussion was the allure of hp. And by the way, since you rented a 300C rather than a Town Car or Marquis, thank you for proving my point.

    The target buyers are obviously different. You'll note that elsewhere on this site there's a DTS vs 300C discussion item. Not a DTS vs Zephyr. You won't even see a CTS vs Zephry since they're not in the same category. You can take a plain Jane and give her lots of make-up, false eyelashes and a padded bra and try to make her into a beauty queen but she'll still be basically a plain Jane. Strip away the added chrome and dandy interior of the Zephyr and you've got a Fusion....

    P.S. I've only seen one Zephyr on the road. It was a lovely white one. The 70+ year old driver pulled into an assisted living complex. Guess Lincoln found it's target buyer.....
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    P.S. I've only seen one Zephyr on the road. It was a lovely white one. The 70+ year old driver pulled into an assisted living complex. Guess Lincoln found it's target buyer.....

    Oh your so funny, just because you see one old guy drive a new Lincoln doesn't mean that's all that's buy it. I live in ATL, I've seen quite a few of the Lincoln Zephyr in every color available. Also, it's has a good age mix as well. The last one that I saw was ebony black. I was passing this restaurant and a young African-American couple in their 30's were getting in the Zephyr. So, I guess Lincoln found it's target buyer. You were saying something ? Anymore jokes :P
    Also, I just hit 30 and I think the Zephyr is a gorgeous car. If I had the money and It could fit into my budget I'd wait until the MKZ came out this fall and buy it no questions asked.

    Besides. what are you doing near an Assisted living complex :confuse:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    One shouldn't have to fiddle around with the auto climate control to get it to work right. I don't have a Zephyr, so maybe there is a design problem here. If I had my car set as low as 67, it would be like a refrigerator all the time. In really hot weather 75 or 76 is best (otherwise, it runs at high fan speed on recirculation constantly). BTW, with my last few vehicles, the system itself chooses when to go in and out of recirculation mode (you can manually over-ride it of course). Does Lincoln not operate that way?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Some people think just because THEY like hp that EVERYBODY likes hp. Go to a mall and take a random sample and you'll find that at least 7 of every 10 people not only don't know how much hp their car has - they won't even know how many cylinders they have. For the other 3, 2 may know but they don't care.

    My point was that while a few people may overlook a car with lower hp the VAST MAJORITY of sedan buyers just want adequate acceleration (the car doesn't feel slow). And the Zephyr certainly has that. The fact that the MKZ will have 263 hp is great, but it won't sell that many more cars.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Some systems have a smog sensor, that will alternate between the recirculation mode automatically. I personally, rather have just myself set it and forget it. Smog or not, I just don't wish to smell the tailpipes, and other bad smells from other vehicles around me.

    A/C systems work in one mode...the temperature being pumped out would lets say be 50 degrees in essense. BUT some heat is thrown into the mix, not to freeze the system. The system will run on high fan speed till the desired temperature is reached. Although in many systems just as some Fords, the closer it gets to the set temperature, it'll start lowering the fan.

    NOW, there's a fine line when your set it at 67 for example, it's going to be on high the whole time, probably on the highest 2 fan settings and chances are, you'll get to your destination and still didnt reach 67 degrees.

    When the fan is on high, the coldness of the air isn't as cool as lets say, something in the medium range. Automatically, the fan is usually blasting on high to rush out the hot air, once you start to vehicle and are on your way.

    And all the above is for the hot, humid FL days. Realistically, with the numerous brand cars I have to test with automatic temperature control, it won't dip below medium fan speed, before I reach a destination... at least not in this heat down here.

    Tinted windows help greatly. And no, the color of the car hasn't nothing to do with it either. It's been scientifically tested that black and white cars, are equally hot in the interior.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    That may be true for the color of the car, but the color of the interior (black v. light) makes quite a difference.

    Also, smong sensor or no, many auto controls set the system on recirculation when the interior is very hot and needs a quick cool-down. When cooler, it then switches back to outside air.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Ford's automatic climate control system DOES control the recirc mode as well, unless it is manually selected...
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You'd think the interior color would matter, but it doesn't. Scientifically tested and verified.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Reference please. Something more than a news article. If true, then further investigation needs to be done to determine what is going on. (After all, black is black because it absorbs light, and light colors are perceived as light because they reflect it.)
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "And no, the color of the car hasn't nothing to do with it either. It's been scientifically tested that black and white cars, are equally hot in the interior."

    In the words of our President, That dog don't hunt.

    I'd love to hear the reason why solar collectors somehow all happen to be painted black and yet those wacky people that engineer buildings happen to paint roofs white to reflect heat.

    There are sure a lot of mixed up people here in Arizona mistakenly bought white cars too.

    They should all be made aware of this scientific study.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Surprisingly, I can't seem to find a scientific reference with test data to support either statement. I do remember reading about an actual test that did show the final temperatures to be almost identical in both a light and dark interior.

    I'm sure black interiors heat up faster than light interiors, but consider that most of the black interior is either fabric, leather or plastic and that the surrounding metal retains and radiates heat so much better than any of those materials.
  • vic10vic10 Member Posts: 188
    I figured one good snip deserved another. What did slamming a trunk lid have to do with the appeal of horsepower. (and who in the world would determine the quality of a car by the condition of a rental vehicle??).

    As for the Assisted living complex, my mother is in the last stages of Parkinson's and is confined there until she dies. Everyone satisfied?
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    As for the Assisted living complex, my mother is in the last stages of Parkinson's and is confined there until she dies. Everyone satisfied?

    I'm sorry about your mother. The whole thing about the assisted living thing just didn't make any sense. And it sounded like a wise crack to me. Again, I'm sorry
  • hondacbr1khondacbr1k Member Posts: 12
    I typically just push the auto button at 60 degrees and let it cool down then either adjust the temp up or the fan down maunally on the steering wheel. We have had a string of 90 plus degree days and it cools just fine, especially when coupled with the cooled seats. FYI though, I found that you have to have the vents in the proper position (maybe just my stupidity) in that they are curved when sitting in the vertical position and they have to be curved towards you. Seems simple but vertical is not vertical apparently. Overall I like the car a lot and I have seen a LOT more of them on the road lately. A good lease deal is driving this i think.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Here's one guy who did a self test on colors...

    LINK
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's the test I remember reading. Thanks!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Interesting "theories" to explain his results. I think what he meant was hypotheses, but never mind that.

    First, the lighter cars did show lower temps, even if not dramatically so. However, the big flaw in his effort is in not measuring actual interior temps. Just as your insulated kitchen oven doesn't feel much different on the outside at 300 degrees v. 400 degrees, we have no idea how much a 7 degree exterior glass temperature difference corresponds with actual interior temperature differences--without doing the actual measurements. A thermometer placed inside each car at a defined location for a defined time would have provided better data.
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    That's a really lame study and anyone who quotes it as some kind of science does so at the risk of their own credibility.

    No one cares about the surface temperature or the irrelevant glass temperature. All that matters is the temperature of the interior which went unmeasured.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That's a really lame study and anyone who quotes it as some kind of science does so at the risk of their own credibility.

    Why is it lame? Because you don't agree with the conclusion? That was a very scientific, controlled experiment. Identical cars measured the same way at the same time of day. You can't argue with the test methods.

    No one cares about the surface temperature or the irrelevant glass temperature. All that matters is the temperature of the interior which went unmeasured.

    The theory is that the temperature of the glass is directly proportional to the temperature of the interior, which seems to be a reasonable scientific conclusion. Do you have any scientific explanations as to why that wouldn't be true?
  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    One minor detail:
    If a "study" concerns interior temperatures, that's what you measure.

    It appears he (and you) forgot that part.

    Rather than waste time on some "theory is that the temperature of the glass is directly proportional to the temperature of the interior, which seems to be a reasonable scientific conclusion."

    How about just checking the interior temperature?
    Crazy huh?
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    to the Zephyr please?

    How is everyone doing with their car, in terms of quality? Everything go smooth so far?
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