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I just purchased a Zephyr yesterday. Although I generally like more sporty driver-oriented cars (BMWs, etc), I’ve been driving a PT Cruiser for the last 6 years, and have come to appreciate its utility and economy. The fact is, the PT Cruiser is 85% of what my old BMW was, handling and power-wise, at half the cost. Although I could have replaced the PT with a car costing $30-35,000, I am less inclined to do so. They just don’t seem worth the money. I’ve come to demand value.
Still, I was looking to replace it with a car with better mileage, an automatic (driving into Boston daily will convert anyone to an automatic), and some extra creature comforts. And, as noted, price/value was also a major factor. Also, I didn’t want to see myself go by 12 times a day. Call it the exclusivity factor. The Zephyr turned out to be the best choice, to my surprise, although I have no regrets; I really really like this car.
The comparison cars were kind of all over the map, and were not exactly apples to apples, but this is where the value factor came in. The Accord, Fusion and the SAAB 9-3 were the other major cars considered.
The Accord has great value, but I came away feeling no connection to the car, almost like it was a toaster or food processor. I spend too much time in my car to feel no positive reinforcement from it. Plus the Honda dealers were idiots. Likewise the BMW dealer. I had to practically pay a salesman to show me the 325i, and even then he wanted to be somewhere else. No thanks. And the 325i? Handles very well, but still small. The front door openings are small and low, too low for someone over 5-11. At $36,000, it’s no bargain. Plus they are everywhere in Boston. Ditto the Acura TL. I see 10 a day, literally. The CTS handles very well, shockingly well, but the price again was $36-37,000 for the 3.6. The value factor came into play here.
The Avalon is a beautiful car, but a little bigger than I need, plus my in-laws own one. As a result, the only people raving about the Avalon are all over 70. My in-laws, their friends, etc. Well, I’m in my 40s, and in the same way I’m not gonna look at a Town Car, I’m not gonna look at an Avalon.
I didn’t even look at the Lexus or Infiniti. We use to have a J30 (great car), but the G35 is cramped (I’m 6-1). The Lexus I and E models were going for near sticker, and to me Lexus has always been more about brand than value.
The Saab 9-3 is actually a great value and drives well, but build quality is scary. I know Lutz is saying they’re getting better, but the feedback on the 2001-2004 cars is pretty bad. It ultimately scared me off.
So it’s odd to think that a Lincoln is being compared to an Accord and a Fusion, but it is clearly a half step behind the BMW crowd, and a half-step ahead of the Fusion. That Zephyrs go for $35,000 is crazy. This is a $27-32,000 car.
That said, it is noticeably quieter than a Fusion SEL, and the interior is a full level nicer. The seatbacks seem wider on the Zephyr, and all of the materials and style touches are very different from other cars. The interior and exterior of the Zephyr present as a stylized American car with a nod to the 1960s, but in an appealing way. Call it retro arts and science, but it works. The car looks pretty nice in person. It’s unique and it’s fun to drive.
The ride is a little softer, and there seems to be a micro less power than the Fusion, but nothing that really matters. The car has 221 hp and traction control. It is more than adequate for spirited driving.
Anyway, I bought it for $25 under invoice, with only one option. I followed much of the car buying advice on this forum, and this week is a great time to shop. Even the volume Toyota dealer in the region (550 cars/month) is way down to under 300 cars so far.
In the end, we deemed the differences from the Fusion to the Lincoln to be worth the extra money, which amounted to a real world difference of $4600. This includes the ride refinement, quality interior, the features (memory system, power options, etc) and the warranty/loaner car/free maintenance package.
For the BMW, CTS, etc, the extra $5,000+ beyond the Zephyr we deemed to be not really worth the differences in the cars, given our needs and the reality of where and how we drive. Not too many twisties on my way to work.
I am a little leery of Lincoln ownership; after all, this Zephyr program is very similar to the 78 Lincoln Versailles program, which was a 130 hp, Monarch-based crapmobile with some extra foam rubber in the seats. It was a hideous and obvious attempt to draw sales from the then-hot Seville, but it destroyed any credibility Lincoln enjoyed from the 60s Continentals.
In the end though, the Zephyr stands on its own OK, It’s modern, full-featured, and it’s a good value. Plus the dealer seems first-rate. I hope they continue to support the brand with cool new offerings.
LOL, Ohhh Damn. Lincoln used the Iosis concept to make a new Lincoln. I knew that concept was coming over to America in one form or another. That concept was just to nice to just let it go to waste. That car is bitching. I just hope 2 things. 1. it's RWD, the Mustang platform 2. they don't water it down the exterior design like they did the Zephyr. If the quality and Interior looks anything like the Zephyr. That car could be a huge hit. Also, If you add this car along with the new Aviator and Zephyr it's official lincoln is back !!!! I see this is concept car is a sedan. However, what Lincoln really needs is a 2 door coupe that is aimed at the G35 and BMW's 3 series. If that coupe looks anything like this car does and they don't screw it up. Lincoln would take a big step in getting closer to the younger demographic they are aiming for. Hell I'll buy that car just off of looks alone
That concept is certainly modern and much more bold than what Lincoln has done in awhile...but I hope they don't do it. It looks Japanese (06 or 07 Lexus or Infinity with Iosis overtones).
What I would like to see is Lincoln actually producing a car that is reminiscent of some the recent Lincoln concepts...those that have taken the 1960s gorgeous Lincoln look (there was nothing like the new 1961 Lincoln at that time) and updated it. Lincoln needs a corporate look (beyond that boring waterfall grill) and they could get inspiration from their own history.
If past is prologue, underneath is a nice Ford selling for $10,000 less, and probably handling better to boot. There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING attractive to me at the Lincoln dealership. Wait, I take that back...the Lincoln dealer also sells very nice Mercuries with the same great service, almost identical features and far lower prices.
That, I believe, is Lincoln's biggest problem right now...
The Zephyr is a FINE example of that. As USA Today's auto reviewer (he would want me to mention his name) pointed out recently, the Zephyr is a fine car available for far less for not much less car if you call it a Fusion....
Interestingly, and along these lines, I saw a sales people's brochure for Fusion/Milan/Zephyr on my last visit to Ye Olde Ford Dealership. Even Ford admits that the similarities between the three cars far exceed the relatively minor differences....Either a bit more sound insulation, a far better sound system (which can be gussied up in the aftermarket if you buy a Ford/Mercury), and greatly softened handling are worth the extra money for the Lincoln, or they are not. For me, they are not.
Lincoln needs unique vehicles, not more Lincoln Versailles, Cadillac Cimmaron type things...
It won't be RWD. It's already been announced that the 2 new Lincoln sedans will be based on the D3 platform (500/Montego/Freestyle which itself came from Volvo) although I'm sure it will be heavily modified. Expect standard AWD (FWD based but with a rear torque bias) and available V8 power although it won't be the modular 4.6L. It will either be the Volvo V8 from the XC90 (or some version) or one of their new turbo 6 cylinders putting out V8 power.
Lincoln needs unique vehicles, not more Lincoln Versailles, Cadillac Cimmaron type things...
I totally agree, Lincoln as a brand needs some strong products to define what a Lincoln is. Before I bought my Zephyr, I read the USA Today article, and it's accurate. I was also aware of the sad job Lincoln has done in the past with exactly this kind of badge engeneering. But for me the questions came down to 'does the Zephyr stand on it's own as a solid, quality car' and 'does it represent a good value knowing the Fusion is so close'. The answers obviously came back yes, since I bought it. The Fusion is a solid car in every way, but it is a little noisy on the highway, and the gauges do look a little cheap to me. The Zephyr interior hits some emotional chord that the Fusion didn't, so I got it.
But I was also looking for something different. Had I not, the Avalon or EX Accord would probably be in my driveway. They are pretty close to the Zephyr.
I don't mean to sound lukewarm on it, 'cause I do really like it, but picking the Lincoln over the Toyota/Honda offerings was bit of a risk (how sad is that). But I'm confident Ford has made a real effort with this latest trio. That said, Lincoln really needs to bring it to the next level with these future offerings.
Someone posted than they cut corners on the Zephyr so people would still have reason to buy Jaguar. If the Zephyr was a nicer car, it would take sales away from Jaguar sedans. The Zephyr's main selling point is that it is cheaper than cars like the ES330. It is not competitive on anything other than price. It has a nicer interior than a Milan, but the difference in the interior of a Milan vs Zephyr is not as dramatic as the upgrade in interior of an ES330 vs a Camry.
"but I hope they don't do it. It looks Japanese (06 or 07 Lexus or Infinity with Iosis overtones). "
'Looks Japanese'? Well, I saw this car in a room with it's competitors, mostly Japanese vehicles eg Lexus and Infiniti, and this Lincoln looks better than any of them. IMHO of course. They will do it or something like it and compared to the 500/Montego/S80 this car is a head-turner from every angle.
The Lincoln and Jaguar buyers are very different, nor does Ford car much about Zephyr sales surplanting those of the X-type. The X-type has a deathdate coming up, and the Zephyr is cheaper to manufacture.
And the Volvo buyer is also different as well, that MIGHT be closest thing to cross-compare within the Ford brand, and Ford isn't worried about that either.
Now, when the 3.5L V6 debuts with the AWD, THEN maybe it'll come somewhat close in comparison to a Zephyr, but again...totally different buyers, demographics, etc.
I wouldn't really call it a head turner. For a few bucks more you can get a full tilt Buick Lucerne. If Ford did not have Mazda, they'd be in big trouble. No creativity whatsoever.
Virtually no one would cross shop a Buick Lucerne and a Lincoln Zephyr. That's only a bit different than cross shopping a VW Passat and a Cadillac DTS...
"I wouldn't really call it a head turner. For a few bucks more you can get a full tilt Buick Lucerne."
I wasn't talking about the Zephyr, I was talking about the new larger Lincolns that are to be released real soon now. IMHO they will be two of the best looking sedans on the road. Assuming they don't screw them up between concept and production. Also IMHO the Zephyr and Mark LT are mistakes for Lincoln. They provide close to zero over and above a Fusion/Milan or F150. I think they both cheapen the Lincoln name. These new sedans OTOH will add cachet.
I will add that the Lucerne is a beautiful vehicle, which probably should be cross-shopped with the Zephyr. ANd probably should come out on top.
"If Ford did not have Mazda, they'd be in big trouble."
Well, there's some truth to this. Without the Mazda 6, Ford would not have: Fusion, Milan, Zephyr, Edge, Aviator (new one) ... what else?
Lincoln's current line-up is a yawn. The concept of a big Lincoln sedan shown above is attractive and does stand out over much of the mediocre styling of many current luxury cars. However, it doesn't break any real new ground, and seems to borrow elements from some of the better stuff out now (or soon to be introduced). It does not take a risk or do any leapfrogging--except over Lincoln itself.
Love it or hate it, the Chrysler 300 did something truly different and it worked in the marketplace. Ditto the new Cadillac look...you love it or hate it, but you don't say it was a cautious borrowing of elements of something else.
I think Ford has gotten too heavily into consumer clinics and re-design of concepts by committee. They need bold and they need it now. It is a crying shame that the Ford Five Hundred, a clean sheet design, was so cautious (their protests that its styling will weather over time better than the 300's to the contrary).
Now the new Aviator styling has been dumbed way down from the concept and looks like it will share most body panels with the Ford Edge. We will have to wait several more years before we see Lincoln challenge Cadillac sales again, and that's too bad. Cadillac has re-made itself (albeit within GM which still remains on life support) while Lincoln has twiddled its thumbs. Look how long it took them tto merely introduce the badge engineered LT (F150) truck. They could have much more quickly altered the goofy Blackwood by giving it a conventional bed, 4WD, and a new name, and they would have had a truck that actually looked like a Lincoln, (instead of an F150 with a waterfall grill plunked in the F150 grill hole and tarted up with more chrome).
I found an advertisement for the Zephyr. Finally Lincoln seems to be serious about letting people know about this car and not letting it fall under the radar.
I like the Zephyr inside and out. The rear styling could be better, but maybe they will fix it later like they did to the Accord. It represents a good value and shows tasteful design. It also comes with good options. At least for me that justifies buying it over a Fusion/Milan.
overseas military returning in NOV 06, looking at the Zephyr but wondering if they will have the 3.5 with 250 horses by the model year 2007, great car but needs more power looking for something in the 0-60 range of 6.8. I hope the power increase will be ready by 2007, if not I guess the R/T Charger but the Zephyr interior is stunning in my book
"overseas military returning in NOV 06, looking at the Zephyr but wondering if they will have the 3.5 with 250 horses ..."
Welcome back and thanks for servin, rolo. Your point is basically mine as well. The Zephyr needs to be distinguished from the Fusion/Milan and right now it is not. Yes, the interior is nicer, and so is the styling (IMHO) but it needs more. More HP for sure. The 3.5 should be standard on the Zephyr, or at least give it the 235 hp version of the 3.0 Duratech that was in the LS. SOMETHING that says it's a better performer than the others.
Rolo, if you want sub 7 sec 0-60 for about a Zephyr price, a used LS V8 could be your ticket.
The Zephyr was supposed to launch with the 3.5 but that engine was delayed 1-2 years. So they had a choice - wait a year to launch the vehicle or launch it with the 3.0 now and put in the 3.5 later. Lincoln desperately needs new products and the 3.0 holds it's own, so it was the right choice. I don't think I'd want the 3.5 without AWD anyway.
In this 12/29/05 Tony Swan article his opinions notwithstanding, "That's because this car is about as exciting as a bowl of cold oatmeal", his specification facts are incorrect. Just another demonstration of how much real research is done before going to press, especially as it relates to posting engine displacement and HP in a car he road tested.
Both Ford and Lincoln initially released the 210 hp figure on the triplets' 3.0 liter. HP was re-calibrated across the industry in 2005. While many Japanese brands lost hp under the new formula, the Duratec went from 210 to 221 hp, shortly before the three models were released. Swan should have known that the hp figures would be the same among all three, but Lincoln did release that 210 figure.
His point is well-taken though...you don't help a brand recover by taking a decent car and giving it innocuous-to-bland styling. The Ford Five Hundred proves that.
Be careful in the technicalities of how automakers actually re-rating the HP of their engines. Honda and Toyota re-rated every engine, while Nissan did not re-rate any except the 4.5L V8 in the FX45 ONLY, and GM and Ford are re-rating either engines that are revised OR only when a vehicle is redesigned. (Such is why the 3.0L Duratec in the FiveHundred/Montego/Freestyle received no change).
Additionally, the vehicles wont accelerate any differently as a result of the change, which explains why the Fusion, with a seeminly large HP advantage over the 190 horse V6 Camry XLE, barely beats it in acceleration tests, as evidenced by the Dec 05 M/T and C/D comparison tests.
You'll have to forgive me but it sounds like you're making an excuse for a guy who is in the business (automotive related) who wrote an article a week ago about a car he test drove, and he provides inaccurate information based on something he read months back before any Fusion/Milan/Zephyr was released. For me his credibility is suspect especially due to his current position at Car&Driver. And as I said his personal observations about this car notwithstanding..
It may not be a bad car. The Fusion is liked, so it is a Fusion/Milan with slightly changed styling, and some extra luxury options not available on the other cars. I would not completely "avoid" it, but I would only consider it in a bargain lease deal and if I thought the interior looked much better in person than the way it looks in photos. I expect resale to be horrific since it doesn't have much going for it that would make someone want it used, so it may have to be "dumped" at a desperate price to find a buyer on the used car market. There are lots of other cars I'd probably end up buying before the Zephyr. (Avalon XLS or Limited, future Lexus ES350, Lexus IS250, Acura TL, Chrysler 300C etc.). I might even consider the cheaper Fusion more serioulsy than the Zephyr.
I've just test-driven the new Zephyr. I found it emotionally engaging but disappointing in some of the particulars. For example, when I opened the glove box, I saw that the sides and back of the glove box were not sealed such that maps, envelopes, etc. could fall over and out of the box. I also noticed that the image of the wipers was reflected in the glass, creating a visual distraction. And the right wiper didn't retract completely (remained partially upright). Lastly, the fabric on the back dash and in the trunk seemed a lower quality than I had expected.
I may still purchase the Zephyr because I really like its retro exterior styling and its size. But does anyone know if these faults I found are likely to be corrected during this model year?
Unlikely. Ford is dancing as fast as it can to try to get product out there in a hurry, after neglecting to do so when they actually had the time to do it.
Interesting that you think the Zephyr looks retro. I think it looks anonymous. To each his or her own!
BTW, a plethora of sedans fall within an inch or two of the length of the Zephyr (Camry, ES300, Accord, Sonata, Acura TL, Mercedes E Class, Galant, Altima, Saab 9-5, VW Passat, Volvo S80, Infiniti G35, etc.), and the Infiniti M35, Audi A6, Acura RL and Nissan Maxima are only about 3 inches longer.
you make valid points about some of the details. someone at work bought a sonata and was showing it to me. the pad in the trunk had braided edges. looked really nice. hopefully ford will see your comments and view them as constructive. i do like the zephyr.
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Hello rbritt, sorry for my late reply I have been rather busy studying for a major exam and so haven't perused the board as often.
I am leasing the Zephyr and pretty much paid MSRP ~43K (NAV/THX II, HIDs, cooled seats, bluetooth) for it minus a few hundred since I got a better aftermarket bluetooth kit for the car for about the price of the Ford one. There were no incentives at the time I purchased, also I did not really try to haggle too much.
At the time it was brand new and there was a 2 month delay to even get one. Not sure if that has changed yet, since my dad is getting a Fusion and Ford does have rebates on that. So there may be something on the Zephyr now.
All I can say now 4,000 KMs later is that I love the car even more and am very glad I got it. I finally 'met' another Zephyr on the road but the older gentleman in the other car didn't notice, what a shame
Im new to the forum and see that most of the negative posts on the Zephyr are from those that dont own one. With a consumer rating of 9.7 I do find this interesting. Have any of these people read the foreign car forums to see the multiple issues foreign cars have as well. Style,comfort,hp wanted are all subjective issues but lets give credit to a company for taking the right steps forward to restablish itself. This is one hell of a car for the price.The Zephyrs reliability is yet to be proven and hopefully over time it will be. While the foreign car manufacturers do offer better customer service their cars have as many issues as the American cars,read the various forums and you will see. To those that dont own the Zephyr and continue to bash it, your reviews are really meaningless. Not one car is for everyone no matter who produces it but dont bash what you dont have just because it is not your thing. A rating of 9.7 should tell you something
Battousai1, Thanks for the response - I ended up leasing the zephyr with some small incentives: Tungsten colour, Nav, THX II, heated/cooled seats and HID lights. I did not get the Chrome wheels which I did not like, particularly for 1100.00! I am looking for a bluetooth aftermarket for handsfree (Ford wants 1,000.00 for Mobilease). What did you end up with and is it tied into the nav/audio? I am very impressed with the comfort and ride and especially with the audio, best I have ever heard in any car from factory! The interior appointments are stellar. I cannot comment favorably on the engine, as yet. Unfortunately, the check engine light came on as soon as I got it and the engine was bogging down and not shifting fluidly.After 4 days in the shop turns out to be a clutch modulator and had to be ordered in from the States. Won't have it back until Friday! I am hoping that I will enjoy it as you have. I love the interior! Perfect for me and the wife and daughter. Also great for picking up clients. I can only assume you have had no problems and really hope that my problem is a one off. I have not seen any Zephyrs around the Golden triangle, at all and have to admit that I am not displeased! Cheers,
"With a CSI score of 915 (on a 1,000-point scale), Lincoln ranks highest in customer satisfaction with dealer service, receiving a record-setting high CSI score for the second consecutive year, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Customer Service Index (CSI) StudySM"
And what's better, Mercury customers get to enjoy these benefits since they share the showroom.
rbritt, sounds like we almost got the identical car, mine's the same colour (and a very nice colour on this car IMHO). I too didn't want the chrome wheels, I don't think they look good on the car, and it would have just been too much chrome for my liking. As you noted I love the audio system, it is simply awesome, just too bad they couldn't include an AUX jack, and DVD audio support, such a shame we can't get the best use out of a stellar surround system. But thankfully CD-Rs are dirt cheap so I have transferred my best stuff from my iPod to CD.
I got the blueconnect kit, it is the one seen in the photos at this link (not where I got it from though, the dealer used his own contact to have it installed for me):
It is a nice unobtrusive kit and looks like it belongs with the car, even the lighting on the buttons matches the white LED lighting of the rest of the car. It works quite well in recognizing your commands and numbers etc., just have to be a little quick rolling off the numbers or it takes any brief pause as the end of your command.
Some form of this is the kit used by most manufacturers for their built-in bluetooth. Unfortunately mine is not integrated with the audio system, not sure if this was an installer oversight or a limitation of the aftermarket model, though their documentation states that it should be integrated. However I'm not that lazy that I can't hit mute or turn down the volume when making or receiving a call, so I didn't make a deal of this.
I'm surprised they want 1K for the Ford kit, on the Ford canada website it lists for $300 last time I checked, this Blueconnect one cost $600.
Its unfortunate you couldn't enjoy the car right off the bat, I didn't have any such problems, hopefully the new part fixes it for good!
As you say I love the rareity of the car for now, sure the competition may have one thing or the other a bit better than the Zephyr, but they are so common, I see so many TLs, G35s, BMW 3 series its not even funny. regards,
Just purchased and I love it so far. I have the Melot one and it turns heads everywhere I go. I also own a Navigator so all of the controls where very familiar to me. You can tell the difference that Lincoln adds to their vechicles. You first notice it in the soundproofing.
Lincoln only needs to look at late 20th century to see the right way to build sales. The biggest problem they had was not improving the winning models each year. My 2000 LS bought in July of 99 was by far the best handling, best ing, most exciting car I ever purchased. Fast forward 2006, LS is still that good, and that is the problem. 7 years later, and virtually no change. In 1999, if I had a problem or question, I could email a FoMoCo VP, and always get an answer, and assistance if needed. The same VP read posts bout the car on every board he could find, and always responded. Now we have a couple of "known" Ford folks who are greatly appreciated, but they don't appear to be a customer advocate as their predecessor most certainly was. In the "good old days" of 1999-2000 I even received a phone call from the dealer once asking how I knew the FMC exec that had called them about my car.
It was around this time that Lincoln vehicles outsold most other Luxury brands. LS and Navigator? Nothing close unless you wanted to at least double the price.
1 - The Firestone fiasco caused Lincoln's budget to be cut from $2B to 600K overnight. That effectively killed any new models that were planned for the dew98 platform.
2 - The decision not to export to Europe which may or may not have been linked to the budget or other issues.
3 - The death of the Continental left a void in the Lincoln car lineup that forced the LS into the lower price ranges.
Once this all happened it became clear that the LS was simply too expensive and would not be profitable. That's when the advertising stopped (not vice versa). Why advertise a car that has no future and is losing money? I also think the desire to close Wixom played a part.
Had the Zephyr been available 2 years ago that would have helped. If the modular V8 could have been used instead of the one-off 3.9L AJ based V8 that would have helped. If the new mustang platform could have been stretched for a sedan that would definitely have helped lower the platform cost and allowed use of the 4.6L V8.
And if Ifs and Buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.......
Too bad Lincoln had to pay such a high price for a tire scandal that had nothing to do with the brand. However, Audi was able to return from the "unintended acceleration" mess, though it took years. Here's hoping Lincoln can recover too...and that the next D3 looks more Lincoln-like.
"If the new mustang platform could have been stretched for a sedan that would definitely have helped lower the platform cost and allowed use of the 4.6L V8. "
I do not think Mustang platform is not good enough for luxury make. What is good about Mustang – it is affordable and it is also its weakness. Otherwise when you have money you can buy Infinity or Cadillac with no compromise RWD platform.
There's nothing inherently cheap about the mustang platform itself, and Lincoln could have added IRS and other improvements with the money saved by not having to start from scratch. In fact I'd venture that the new mustang platform is better than the dew98 platform which is not hard to believe if you consider the dew98 is at least 6 years older.
I checked out a Zephyr Saturday. One thing I wondered about (but the salesman didn't know the answer) regards the Memory Seats.
When I shut off the key, it moved back in an EXIT mode. Is this a setting the owner can program? I'd rather not have the seat move back and forth each time I get out. I know on Buick and Cadillac you can opt away from this.
Is an EXIT mode an optional setting on this Lincoln??
We knew it all along but it's been confirmed now that Lincoln will get the 3.5L V6. That will surely increase sales and make it a worthy competitor to Lexus, Cadillac, Acura, etc.
nothing to do with memory seats, but my zephyr cracks and pops with temperature change in the dash. also a rattle that they are unable to find. seems that it could be a characteristic of zephyrs, they are checking with the engineering dept.
Hello, thats great news, military stationed overseas for the past 6 years returning NOV 06 time frame should the 3.5 model year 2007 Zephyr be on the market by early/mid Fall.
The 3.5L will first debut in the MKX, then the Zephyr as a model year '07 offering, which I believe the factory is scheduled to build those around mid July....
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Still, I was looking to replace it with a car with better mileage, an automatic (driving into Boston daily will convert anyone to an automatic), and some extra creature comforts. And, as noted, price/value was also a major factor. Also, I didn’t want to see myself go by 12 times a day. Call it the exclusivity factor. The Zephyr turned out to be the best choice, to my surprise, although I have no regrets; I really really like this car.
The comparison cars were kind of all over the map, and were not exactly apples to apples, but this is where the value factor came in. The Accord, Fusion and the SAAB 9-3 were the other major cars considered.
The Accord has great value, but I came away feeling no connection to the car, almost like it was a toaster or food processor. I spend too much time in my car to feel no positive reinforcement from it. Plus the Honda dealers were idiots. Likewise the BMW dealer. I had to practically pay a salesman to show me the 325i, and even then he wanted to be somewhere else. No thanks. And the 325i? Handles very well, but still small. The front door openings are small and low, too low for someone over 5-11. At $36,000, it’s no bargain. Plus they are everywhere in Boston. Ditto the Acura TL. I see 10 a day, literally. The CTS handles very well, shockingly well, but the price again was $36-37,000 for the 3.6. The value factor came into play here.
The Avalon is a beautiful car, but a little bigger than I need, plus my in-laws own one. As a result, the only people raving about the Avalon are all over 70. My in-laws, their friends, etc. Well, I’m in my 40s, and in the same way I’m not gonna look at a Town Car, I’m not gonna look at an Avalon.
I didn’t even look at the Lexus or Infiniti. We use to have a J30 (great car), but the G35 is cramped (I’m 6-1). The Lexus I and E models were going for near sticker, and to me Lexus has always been more about brand than value.
The Saab 9-3 is actually a great value and drives well, but build quality is scary. I know Lutz is saying they’re getting better, but the feedback on the 2001-2004 cars is pretty bad. It ultimately scared me off.
So it’s odd to think that a Lincoln is being compared to an Accord and a Fusion, but it is clearly a half step behind the BMW crowd, and a half-step ahead of the Fusion. That Zephyrs go for $35,000 is crazy. This is a $27-32,000 car.
That said, it is noticeably quieter than a Fusion SEL, and the interior is a full level nicer. The seatbacks seem wider on the Zephyr, and all of the materials and style touches are very different from other cars. The interior and exterior of the Zephyr present as a stylized American car with a nod to the 1960s, but in an appealing way. Call it retro arts and science, but it works. The car looks pretty nice in person. It’s unique and it’s fun to drive.
The ride is a little softer, and there seems to be a micro less power than the Fusion, but nothing that really matters. The car has 221 hp and traction control. It is more than adequate for spirited driving.
Anyway, I bought it for $25 under invoice, with only one option. I followed much of the car buying advice on this forum, and this week is a great time to shop. Even the volume Toyota dealer in the region (550 cars/month) is way down to under 300 cars so far.
In the end, we deemed the differences from the Fusion to the Lincoln to be worth the extra money, which amounted to a real world difference of $4600. This includes the ride refinement, quality interior, the features (memory system, power options, etc) and the warranty/loaner car/free maintenance package.
For the BMW, CTS, etc, the extra $5,000+ beyond the Zephyr we deemed to be not really worth the differences in the cars, given our needs and the reality of where and how we drive. Not too many twisties on my way to work.
I am a little leery of Lincoln ownership; after all, this Zephyr program is very similar to the 78 Lincoln Versailles program, which was a 130 hp, Monarch-based crapmobile with some extra foam rubber in the seats. It was a hideous and obvious attempt to draw sales from the then-hot Seville, but it destroyed any credibility Lincoln enjoyed from the 60s Continentals.
In the end though, the Zephyr stands on its own OK, It’s modern, full-featured, and it’s a good value. Plus the dealer seems first-rate. I hope they continue to support the brand with cool new offerings.
link
LOL, Ohhh Damn. Lincoln used the Iosis concept to make a new Lincoln. I knew that concept was coming over to America in one form or another. That concept was just to nice to just let it go to waste. That car is bitching. I just hope 2 things.
1. it's RWD, the Mustang platform
2. they don't water it down the exterior design like they did the Zephyr. If the quality and Interior looks anything like the Zephyr. That car could be a huge hit. Also, If you add this car along with the new Aviator and Zephyr it's official lincoln is back !!!!
I see this is concept car is a sedan. However, what Lincoln really needs is a 2 door coupe that is aimed at the G35 and BMW's 3 series. If that coupe looks anything like this car does and they don't screw it up. Lincoln would take a big step in getting closer to the younger demographic they are aiming for. Hell I'll buy that car just off of looks alone
What I would like to see is Lincoln actually producing a car that is reminiscent of some the recent Lincoln concepts...those that have taken the 1960s gorgeous Lincoln look (there was nothing like the new 1961 Lincoln at that time) and updated it. Lincoln needs a corporate look (beyond that boring waterfall grill) and they could get inspiration from their own history.
That, I believe, is Lincoln's biggest problem right now...
The Zephyr is a FINE example of that. As USA Today's auto reviewer (he would want me to mention his name) pointed out recently, the Zephyr is a fine car available for far less for not much less car if you call it a Fusion....
Interestingly, and along these lines, I saw a sales people's brochure for Fusion/Milan/Zephyr on my last visit to Ye Olde Ford Dealership. Even Ford admits that the similarities between the three cars far exceed the relatively minor differences....Either a bit more sound insulation, a far better sound system (which can be gussied up in the aftermarket if you buy a Ford/Mercury), and greatly softened handling are worth the extra money for the Lincoln, or they are not. For me, they are not.
Lincoln needs unique vehicles, not more Lincoln Versailles, Cadillac Cimmaron type things...
I totally agree, Lincoln as a brand needs some strong products to define what a Lincoln is. Before I bought my Zephyr, I read the USA Today article, and it's accurate. I was also aware of the sad job Lincoln has done in the past with exactly this kind of badge engeneering. But for me the questions came down to 'does the Zephyr stand on it's own as a solid, quality car' and 'does it represent a good value knowing the Fusion is so close'. The answers obviously came back yes, since I bought it. The Fusion is a solid car in every way, but it is a little noisy on the highway, and the gauges do look a little cheap to me. The Zephyr interior hits some emotional chord that the Fusion didn't, so I got it.
But I was also looking for something different. Had I not, the Avalon or EX Accord would probably be in my driveway. They are pretty close to the Zephyr.
I don't mean to sound lukewarm on it, 'cause I do really like it, but picking the Lincoln over the Toyota/Honda offerings was bit of a risk (how sad is that). But I'm confident Ford has made a real effort with this latest trio. That said, Lincoln really needs to bring it to the next level with these future offerings.
If the Zephyr was a nicer car, it would take sales away from Jaguar sedans.
The Zephyr's main selling point is that it is cheaper than cars like the ES330.
It is not competitive on anything other than price.
It has a nicer interior than a Milan, but the difference in the interior of a Milan vs Zephyr is not as dramatic as the upgrade in interior of an ES330 vs a Camry.
'Looks Japanese'? Well, I saw this car in a room with it's competitors, mostly Japanese vehicles eg Lexus and Infiniti, and this Lincoln looks better than any of them. IMHO of course. They will do it or something like it and compared to the 500/Montego/S80 this car is a head-turner from every angle.
I want to paraphrase - people would have a reason to buy BMW or Cadillac. Who needs Jaguar?
And the Volvo buyer is also different as well, that MIGHT be closest thing to cross-compare within the Ford brand, and Ford isn't worried about that either.
Now, when the 3.5L V6 debuts with the AWD, THEN maybe it'll come somewhat close in comparison to a Zephyr, but again...totally different buyers, demographics, etc.
As for no creativity, go test drive a Mustang.
I wasn't talking about the Zephyr, I was talking about the new larger Lincolns that are to be released real soon now. IMHO they will be two of the best looking sedans on the road. Assuming they don't screw them up between concept and production. Also IMHO the Zephyr and Mark LT are mistakes for Lincoln. They provide close to zero over and above a Fusion/Milan or F150. I think they both cheapen the Lincoln name. These new sedans OTOH will add cachet.
I will add that the Lucerne is a beautiful vehicle, which probably should be cross-shopped with the Zephyr. ANd probably should come out on top.
"If Ford did not have Mazda, they'd be in big trouble."
Well, there's some truth to this. Without the Mazda 6, Ford would not have: Fusion, Milan, Zephyr, Edge, Aviator (new one) ... what else?
Love it or hate it, the Chrysler 300 did something truly different and it worked in the marketplace. Ditto the new Cadillac look...you love it or hate it, but you don't say it was a cautious borrowing of elements of something else.
I think Ford has gotten too heavily into consumer clinics and re-design of concepts by committee. They need bold and they need it now. It is a crying shame that the Ford Five Hundred, a clean sheet design, was so cautious (their protests that its styling will weather over time better than the 300's to the contrary).
Now the new Aviator styling has been dumbed way down from the concept and looks like it will share most body panels with the Ford Edge. We will have to wait several more years before we see Lincoln challenge Cadillac sales again, and that's too bad. Cadillac has re-made itself (albeit within GM which still remains on life support) while Lincoln has twiddled its thumbs. Look how long it took them tto merely introduce the badge engineered LT (F150) truck. They could have much more quickly altered the goofy Blackwood by giving it a conventional bed, 4WD, and a new name, and they would have had a truck that actually looked like a Lincoln, (instead of an F150 with a waterfall grill plunked in the F150 grill hole and tarted up with more chrome).
I like the Zephyr inside and out. The rear styling could be better, but maybe they will fix it later like they did to the Accord. It represents a good value and shows tasteful design. It also comes with good options. At least for me that justifies buying it over a Fusion/Milan.
hope the power increase will be ready by 2007, if not I guess the R/T Charger but the Zephyr interior is stunning in my book
thanks
Chief
Welcome back and thanks for servin, rolo. Your point is basically mine as well. The Zephyr needs to be distinguished from the Fusion/Milan and right now it is not. Yes, the interior is nicer, and so is the styling (IMHO) but it needs more. More HP for sure. The 3.5 should be standard on the Zephyr, or at least give it the 235 hp version of the 3.0 Duratech that was in the LS. SOMETHING that says it's a better performer than the others.
Rolo, if you want sub 7 sec 0-60 for about a Zephyr price, a used LS V8 could be your ticket.
http://tinyurl.com/akt53
His point is well-taken though...you don't help a brand recover by taking a decent car and giving it innocuous-to-bland styling. The Ford Five Hundred proves that.
Additionally, the vehicles wont accelerate any differently as a result of the change, which explains why the Fusion, with a seeminly large HP advantage over the 190 horse V6 Camry XLE, barely beats it in acceleration tests, as evidenced by the Dec 05 M/T and C/D comparison tests.
~alpha
I would not completely "avoid" it, but I would only consider it in a bargain lease deal and if I thought the interior looked much better in person than the way it looks in photos. I expect resale to be horrific since it doesn't have much going for it that would make someone want it used, so it may have to be "dumped" at a desperate price to find a buyer on the used car market.
There are lots of other cars I'd probably end up buying before the Zephyr. (Avalon XLS or Limited, future Lexus ES350, Lexus IS250, Acura TL, Chrysler 300C etc.).
I might even consider the cheaper Fusion more serioulsy than the Zephyr.
I may still purchase the Zephyr because I really like its retro exterior styling and its size. But does anyone know if these faults I found are likely to be corrected during this model year?
Interesting that you think the Zephyr looks retro. I think it looks anonymous. To each his or her own!
BTW, a plethora of sedans fall within an inch or two of the length of the Zephyr (Camry, ES300, Accord, Sonata, Acura TL, Mercedes E Class, Galant, Altima, Saab 9-5, VW Passat, Volvo S80, Infiniti G35, etc.), and the Infiniti M35, Audi A6, Acura RL and Nissan Maxima are only about 3 inches longer.
someone at work bought a sonata and was showing it to me.
the pad in the trunk had braided edges. looked really nice.
hopefully ford will see your comments and view them as constructive.
i do like the zephyr.
I am leasing the Zephyr and pretty much paid MSRP ~43K (NAV/THX II, HIDs, cooled seats, bluetooth) for it minus a few hundred since I got a better aftermarket bluetooth kit for the car for about the price of the Ford one. There were no incentives at the time I purchased, also I did not really try to haggle too much.
At the time it was brand new and there was a 2 month delay to even get one. Not sure if that has changed yet, since my dad is getting a Fusion and Ford does have rebates on that. So there may be something on the Zephyr now.
All I can say now 4,000 KMs later is that I love the car even more and am very glad I got it. I finally 'met' another Zephyr on the road but the older gentleman in the other car didn't notice, what a shame
Cheers.
While the foreign car manufacturers do offer better customer service their cars have as many issues as the American cars,read the various forums and you will see. To those that dont own the Zephyr and continue to bash it, your reviews are really meaningless. Not one car is for everyone no matter who produces it but dont bash what you dont have just because it is not your thing. A rating of 9.7 should tell you something
Thanks for the response -
I ended up leasing the zephyr with some small incentives:
Tungsten colour, Nav, THX II, heated/cooled seats and HID lights. I did not get the Chrome wheels which I did not like, particularly for 1100.00!
I am looking for a bluetooth aftermarket for handsfree (Ford wants 1,000.00 for Mobilease). What did you end up with and is it tied into the nav/audio?
I am very impressed with the comfort and ride and especially with the audio, best I have ever heard in any car from factory! The interior appointments are stellar.
I cannot comment favorably on the engine, as yet. Unfortunately, the check engine light came on as soon as I got it and the engine was bogging down and not shifting fluidly.After 4 days in the shop turns out to be a clutch modulator and had to be ordered in from the States. Won't have it back until Friday! I am hoping that I will enjoy it as you have. I love the interior! Perfect for me and the wife and daughter. Also great for picking up clients.
I can only assume you have had no problems and really hope that my problem is a one off.
I have not seen any Zephyrs around the Golden triangle, at all and have to admit that I am not displeased!
Cheers,
Actually survey says.... Lincoln was tops in last years Customer Satisfaction Survey, according to JDPowers' research for the second year...
LINK
Quote from Link:
"With a CSI score of 915 (on a 1,000-point scale), Lincoln ranks highest in customer satisfaction with dealer service, receiving a record-setting high CSI score for the second consecutive year, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Customer Service Index (CSI) StudySM"
And what's better, Mercury customers get to enjoy these benefits since they share the showroom.
I got the blueconnect kit, it is the one seen in the photos at this link (not where I got it from though, the dealer used his own contact to have it installed for me):
http://www.autointelligence.com/default.asp?OPID=55
It is a nice unobtrusive kit and looks like it belongs with the car, even the lighting on the buttons matches the white LED lighting of the rest of the car. It works quite well in recognizing your commands and numbers etc., just have to be a little quick rolling off the numbers or it takes any brief pause as the end of your command.
Some form of this is the kit used by most manufacturers for their built-in bluetooth. Unfortunately mine is not integrated with the audio system, not sure if this was an installer oversight or a limitation of the aftermarket model, though their documentation states that it should be integrated. However I'm not that lazy that I can't hit mute or turn down the volume when making or receiving a call, so I didn't make a deal of this.
I'm surprised they want 1K for the Ford kit, on the Ford canada website it lists for $300 last time I checked, this Blueconnect one cost $600.
Its unfortunate you couldn't enjoy the car right off the bat, I didn't have any such problems, hopefully the new part fixes it for good!
As you say I love the rareity of the car for now, sure the competition may have one thing or the other a bit better than the Zephyr, but they are so common, I see so many TLs, G35s, BMW 3 series its not even funny.
regards,
So happy camper I am!
In 1999, if I had a problem or question, I could email a FoMoCo VP, and always get an answer, and assistance if needed. The same VP read posts bout the car on every board he could find, and always responded. Now we have a couple of "known" Ford folks who are greatly appreciated, but they don't appear to be a customer advocate as their predecessor most certainly was. In the "good old days" of 1999-2000 I even received a phone call from the dealer once asking how I knew the FMC exec that had called them about my car.
It was around this time that Lincoln vehicles outsold most other Luxury brands. LS and Navigator? Nothing close unless you wanted to at least double the price.
1 - The Firestone fiasco caused Lincoln's budget to be cut from $2B to 600K overnight. That effectively killed any new models that were planned for the dew98 platform.
2 - The decision not to export to Europe which may or may not have been linked to the budget or other issues.
3 - The death of the Continental left a void in the Lincoln car lineup that forced the LS into the lower price ranges.
Once this all happened it became clear that the LS was simply too expensive and would not be profitable. That's when the advertising stopped (not vice versa). Why advertise a car that has no future and is losing money? I also think the desire to close Wixom played a part.
Had the Zephyr been available 2 years ago that would have helped. If the modular V8 could have been used instead of the one-off 3.9L AJ based V8 that would have helped. If the new mustang platform could have been stretched for a sedan that would definitely have helped lower the platform cost and allowed use of the 4.6L V8.
And if Ifs and Buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.......
Too bad Lincoln had to pay such a high price for a tire scandal that had nothing to do with the brand. However, Audi was able to return from the "unintended acceleration" mess, though it took years. Here's hoping Lincoln can recover too...and that the next D3 looks more Lincoln-like.
I do not think Mustang platform is not good enough for luxury make. What is good about Mustang – it is affordable and it is also its weakness. Otherwise when you have money you can buy Infinity or Cadillac with no compromise RWD platform.
When I shut off the key, it moved back in an EXIT mode. Is this a setting the owner can program? I'd rather not have the seat move back and forth each time I get out. I know on Buick and Cadillac you can opt away from this.
Is an EXIT mode an optional setting on this Lincoln??
Thank you
Martin
PS: Very nice car!
You can get the owner's manual for any Ford product online now:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenance/owners_manuals/default.asp
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109027
Chief