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Oh, and don't forget the multiple-motor exercising "feature" that moves the seat/mirrors/radio presets/temperature setting/mood lighting every time a different driver gets in the car. For my car, that would be about twice a year.
While I am griping, how about, "if you want heated seats on that car (a real nice gadget where I live), you must also buy the $1700 sun roof that eliminates two inches of much needed head room."
My wife can't drive an automatic, but fears she'll have to learn; she has pushbuttons on her BMW sport steering wheel, but doesn't know which one raises and lowers the volume on her stereo; cruise control -- "fuggetabouddit."
I do think, however, she has come to envy (slightly) the ability to walk up to the car with a "full load" and have the car unlock; and, I know she wants a phone that responds to the command "dial number 123-4567."
The former is mainly for convenience (I don't use the pushbutton start that often for the simple fact that the FAT key is not comfortable to leave in my pocket -- but I do like the auto recognition feature) but the latter is for safety and I do believe that "big brother" will start escalating the fines and other punishments if we do not "succumb" to Bluetooth with totally hands free and eyes free in-car telephoning.
I have the built-in cradle for my wireless and, frankly, I am such a luddite, I still call it a car phone, choosing NEVER to remove it from my car even though it is about the size of a pack of gum (no I do not own an "i"-anything, it is a super small Sony phone that fits into the Audi cradle and uses the roof antenna and car's battery for power.)
The cars that I like to DRIVE, have an array of "gadgets" typically that makes voice command, Bluetooth, etc, more and more "safety features" by virtue of the distraction reduction such technology permits.
Parktronic -- well, even my "I'll row my own" wife, loves front and rear parktronic (on her X3.) We both enjoy the Xenon lights, LED usage and the fact that the lights turn with the steering wheel. AWD with a neutral or rear bias too is a technology we love -- maybe "gadget" suits, often the phrase used is "content." Memory power seats, I can take them or leave them since 99% of the time, I'm the only person who drives my car. However, I'll admit to having one button on the auto adjusting seats and mirrors programmed just to reduce what little inconvenience that 1% of the time may cause.
I've got surround sound, sat radio and a 6 disk CD changer, don't own an ipod and wouldn't bother to populate a hard drive -- but Radio Tivo using the hard drive, well, "instant tang!"
I grew up in an era where only the wealthy had a/c and power steering and brakes -- and only the really wealthy had power windows. Hard to find cars today without this "content."
A 2008 anything that lacks these "choices" in a climate where the Japanese and the Europeans and even some of the Koreans have this stuff, seems to be a step backwards, no matter how much horsepower and gears you offer.
I don't mind anyone's decision to deselect content (or gadgets) -- what I mind is bringing out a near LPS car as a 2008 model where so many cars (some at even lesser prices) have had this level of content available since 2004 (and earlier.)
I mind not having the manual transmission offered if you want AWD -- but, I'll accept the auto shifter, since it has the 6th gear and the adaptive mode.
You say potato and I'll say potaato. . . . :surprise:
I must respectfully disagree. The first generation ML looked like a minivan. The R-class really doesn't have a good angle. The SL borrows way too many cues from the half as expensive CLK, and compared to gorgeous coupes like the Jaguar XK or Maserati GranTurismo, it looks rather dull and pedestrian.
I like the E and CLS shapes, and the S and CL look good - provided they have the AMG body treatment. Other than that...
For some reason, my current sense is that the M's still are attractive in almost any guise -- only thing they lack is an extra cog or two in the transmission, but they do well with their five speeds, so that is not much of an issue.
If the M35's can come up with 300HP from the V6, I would think the need for the V8 is less.
I still WANT more power from my A6 3.2, but I have never been in any situation when I NEEDED power that the 255HP Audi motivator was insufficient.
The new CTS with the DI V6 is quite attractive and with all the goodies is MSRP $48K.
The M45X, like the A6 4.2 seems to add too much MSRP for too little return -- but more power is, make no mistake, always more fun!
Sometimes, not often, but sometimes, I think the styling of the M's hasn't worn as well as the styles we've seen recently from Germany, however.
I got behind the wheel of the new CTS yesterday at my dealer -- it seems a little small, getting out of my A6, but at least from the look and feel of the thing, it is, perhaps the best Cadillac EVER (OK, in my life -- and I just turned 56.)
I hope there is a factory implementation of Bluetooth with voice command -- at least -- of the phone function. Could be a deal breaker.
I'll agree with E and S, but the new C-class is a bit odd looking to me. I think the 3 series, especially in coupe form, looks better.
I've driven the M several times, and I really like the car. It has Japanese electronics and reliability, with German performance. The only real issue is the lack of a 6th gear, which makes it a bit too noisy on the highway. If the M was available with the ZF 6-speed, I'd probably have one already. I'm going to drive the '08 and see if it has improved at all in that regard.
When we replaced that car last year, we found that some BMW "design genius" decided that the car no longer needed any seat belt height adjustment at all...and the seat belt height was fixed on the door pillar. We sat in the various 5's and were uncomfortable with any of the seat options. As a result, we didn't even consider buying another BMW....we are enjoying our Infiniti.
Don't assume that more adjustments will be comfortable....have every driver try the seat with the seatbelt.
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Currently driving a 2005 Acura RL. Would prefer a sporty coupe, but my lifestyle does not allow for that yet:)
Today I spoke with our local Jaguar dealer about the XF. They expect the first ones at their showroom in March or April of 2008. Since we live in the snowy part of this country I prefer a car with AWD. The salesman told me that the XF would not be available with AWD. He said there is just not enough demand for AWD except in certain regions of the country.
I find this "demand" remark to be someewhat strange since the BMW 5 series, Audis, Infiniti Ms, Cadillac CTS, Acura RL, Mercedes,Lexus all have models with AWD.
Guess if I want an XF will have to buy snow tires!
Comfort is subjective, but to me the absolutely planted feel of my car on the road at all speeds defines the word. I also prefer the seat design over the standard seat due to the more pronounced bolsters.
The new 535i SP has the Comfort Seats as standard in the SP pkg and they are amazing. They even have an adjustable setting on the headrest for the neck. Seat cushioning a bit softer, but still designed with the extendible thigh support and bolsters.
Not enough demand... or Jag can't do one and that's the salesman's excuse. The XF is based on a heavily revised DEW98 platform. No DEW98 car has ever offered AWD. The platform may simply not be capable of it. Or, perhaps Jag simply can't afford to do it. Every other car in the mid-lux segment - 5, E, A6, M, GS, RL, S80, and STS all offer AWD in at least one trim level, so clearly there's demand for AWD.
Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, Lincoln, Mercedes, Porsche, Volkswagen, Volvo -- and even Jaguar (honorable mention) offer AWD models. These mfgr's are, generally, adding more AWD models to their lineups. Of course this list doesn't include (but it could) Ford, Mercury, Subaru and, and, and -- and a whole host of other cars from all around the planet.
The proliferation of AWD advances, it is hardly retreating. Why the salesperson would remark about the lack of demand is probably because he can't offer it in the car he might stand a chance of selling you. Perhaps to persuade you to change your mind, the salesperson planted the suggestion that (implied?) ". . .AWD had its chance and demand was insufficient to justify it."
If you follow the trickle down, the LPS car brands get AWD, then the ELPS will get it, and pretty soon virtually all cars (or so the trend would seem to suggest) will at least offer "available" AWD.
It [AWD] sells cars, no matter what their "breeding."
Your salesperson probably believes what he/she said -- I would simply say, "he is misinformed." :confuse:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122403
If you follow the trickle down, the LPS car brands get AWD, then the ELPS will get it...
Actually, I believe AWD actually trickled up to LPS, ELLPS, etc. Subaru has had AWD for forever. In the '80s and very early '90s, you could get AWD in a Camry and Corolla. Audi was the first luxury brand to adopt it in the late '70s or early '80s, but no other luxury brand offered it (that I can recall.) In the early days of AWD, it was still considered a truckish type feature, and people were reluctant to accept it because of fears of expensive transfer case failure. People didn't understand or recognize the difference between 4WD and AWD (some people still don't.)
Yep, Subaru has had it a long time.
We had a 1988 BMW 325ix which was a joy.
There is evidence that the proliferation of four driven wheels is a consequence of SUV's -- ? -- or is it that SUV's were an alternative to station wagons and since they were truck based. . .well you can come to your own conclusion.
Porsche added AWD for what reason? Certainly not cargo carry capacity.
"All" cars will offer all wheels driven -- at least that the prediction of Dr. Piech (decades ago.) It just keeps proliferating.
Living here in SW Ohio, "everyone" wants AWD since in this part of the planet no one seems to have a clue how to drive on slick surfaces with only two driven wheels.
Anyway, LPS or no, AWD keeps getting added because it is a mature technology and it is virtually impossible to tell that the car is AWD just by looking.
Didn't used to be that way (as if you didn't know.) :surprise:
With most of the weight in the rear and RWD, older Porsches had tendency to spin backwards. The AWD is there simply for stability, not cargo capacity or winter traction. However, just as the highest performance airplanes are inherently unbalanced, the highest performance Porsches are RWD. They need that tail-out instability.
Best Regards,
Shipo
My Lease is about to expire and I am searching for a new car, I also have a smaller family now with one off to college and our other vehicle is a SUV type, plus I never sit in the back... I was trying to find a more reasonable priced mid size luxury sedan that has some zip (I will not buy a es-350) that has all of the gadgets I am used to. I have just started reading and looking (lots of time saved by reading, thanks) I have looked at the 535's gs-350's and find both fairly close to something I feel I can get by with without feeling like I went backwards. I will take the quicker more sporty approach and feel like that was the real reason for not just going out and buying the ls-460, when really it is just too expensive, much more than I paid for my 430. are there any other vehicles I should consider, Audi, Infinity, MB? I have read forums on about all of these I they all seem to be realy bad in an area or two, I truly am spoiled by Lexus, there stuff works and used to be worth the price...
hope my rambling make sense to someone - go ahead and fire away.
so far I have found the GS-350 might be to small, The 535i while not touch screen nav I can live with that since you can enter info while driving - the 535 seems to be the best I am not to sure about the lame placement of the cup holders though...
If anyone can save me a little time by suggesting I look at something I would appreciate it. I may just be wasting my time and have to go get the LS-460, or at least that class of car.
thanks!!
The A4 is a very small car, much smaller than both the 5 series and the CTS. If adults are going to be sitting in the back, I would suggest looking at an A6, rather than an A4. The '05s should be coming off two year leases now, and there might be some good CPO deals. I prefer the G35 to the CTS.
If anyone can save me a little time by suggesting I look at something I would appreciate it. I may just be wasting my time and have to go get the LS-460, or at least that class of car.
Most of the current mid-lux cars offer the same high tech features as the full-size cars, in a sleeker, faster, sportier and more affordable package. My favorite car in the segment is the Infiniti M. It has 90% of the performance of the BMW 5, and is much roomier than the GS, while also being more reliable. Considering reliability is really the only thing the GS has going for it (it isn't particularly comfortable, or fun to drive, or nice to look at), its pretty surprising that Lexus botched the quality control so badly.
The Infiniti's NAV, HVAC and other controls are just as easy to deal with as the Lexus system, no iDrive. The '08s also have a built-in hard drive for music storage like the LS460. Infiniti also offers the V8 with AWD, something you can't get from either BMW or Lexus.
My second choice would be the A6 4.2 S-line. MMI is much more intuitive than iDrive, and the interior is a lot less drab than the 5's. There are no weirdo Bangle angles either.
One sleeper you may want to check out (I am) is the Jag XJ8. It gives a similar ride to the LS but can be a bit more sporty if you push it. It's very quiet and luxurious and I think there are some very good deals which should make it quite a bit less expensive than the LS460.
If all else fails and you are a Lexus devotee, then give the GS a shot. That would probably be the closest to the LS (although the ES that you don't like or the Toyota Avalon are probably 85% of an LS for 50% of the money). Lexus says that their new ES is actually a better car than the original LS 400.
Hope this helps.
If leasing is a strong consideration, the BMW makes the most sense. Its paid maintenance and BMW Assist are frosting on the cake.
Lightly used Jaguar XJs can be fantastic buys. The XJR is much faster and quite a bit sportier than the LS, while still being very comfortable, and you can get one for $40K. Its NAV system is touch screen based, and coming from a Lexus you should have no problems with it. If you want more space than the standard wheelbase XJR, the Vanden Plas or even the top-of-the-line Super V8 Portfolio are still very affordable, and driving a car that was originally $100K is a great feeling
The Jaguar XJ is by far the best bargain in the full-size class.
-Brian
...unless you are unlucky enough to get T-boned in it.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=122205
What do you mean by performance, or can you point me to info that would contradict what Rohrl remarked?
Just follow this link:
link title
It is quite likely that you will enjoy a substantial discount versus your current monthly lease payment by choosing the 5-series and you are also quite likely to enjoy your vehicle more than you currently enjoy your LS 430.
Life is too short to not get what you want when you have the financial means to do so and live in a country that gives you the opportunity to freely fulfill those desires. Get what makes you happy and don't look back!
"20-way power multi-contour front seats (includes articulated upper backrest, 4-way lumbar support, passenger’s-seat memory, active head restraints and adjustable side and thigh support)"
You might find that these are just the ticket for your situation. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Think about how fast the Cayman would be if it had top level 911 power and a limited slip diff. It has the ultimate performance layout - mid-engine, RWD.
The 911 Turbo Coupe is AWD.
Regards,
OW
E-Class 3,718
GS 2,300
M35/45 1,658
A6 807
RL 522
CTS ???
I just came from 20 minutes (not driving, just sitting) in a $48K CTS DI, and -- well, hell, it seems to come "this close" to being a member of the LPS class.
Alas, the CTS is (not yet) NOT a member of the club.
The interior, for what its worth, is almost in the Audi class (which, for my money, is the best of the bunch.)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Any advice is welcome.
Thanks