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Comments
For you it was Gen Y, maybe?
Any how, the Fit almost begins to sound like the Civic Si from the late 80s, with about the same power and weight. Well, maybe a little more weight, but not much.
-juice
The magic of the Civic SI of those early days was EFI when most cars in that class had carbs - not an advantage of the Fit - and wonderful 4-wheel independent suspension with larger tires and rims - not an advantage of the Fit, as even the "Fit Sport" has a torsion beam in the rear. At least it has 15s, which still aren't that big in today's world (although big enough I guess). Consider that back then the '86 SI had 14s, in a world of compact cars where most had 13s, some still had 12s (?), and 14" and up were very rare. Fast forward to today, and there are sporty small cars with 16s, 17s, and what have you, while the sportiest Fit uses 15s.
Actually, with the revised 2006 model, today's SI is the proper successor to that 80s SI. The Fit isn't close. But I wasn't looking for sport with my remarks, I was looking for a bargain. While the base Fit is a good VALUE, it is not a BARGAIN. There are a lot of cars in the $13-15K price range, not so many in the $10-12K range.
And I know Honda hasn't forgotten how to put out very basic cars - the Civic DX is as stripped as you get while maintaining a full complement of safety equipment. What happened to the Fit "DX"?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Fit only has to be sporty within its class. The Scion xA and Versa also have torsion beams in the back, right? Not sure about the Yaris, but I think it does also.
So the Fit only needs to be tuned a tad sportier than those. Keep the steering ratio quick and keep weight down, it could be fun.
The new Si is over $20 grand and drinks premium fuel. It's not the low-budget enthusiast vehicle that it used to be.
-juice
I think the Si of the day had 125hp, and the type-R (Japan only) 170. I'm surprised by how long ago Honda reached 100hp/liter... 1988. Did engine development already reach a plateau way back then?
By comparison, $20K may seem like a lot for a Civic today, but in 1986 dollars it is cheaper than the '86 Civic SI, and thousands of dollars less than cars it is now being compared to in terms of level of sport. Certainly it can now keep the company of cars like the WRX, at $5K more, the American go-fast cars like the Cobalt SS S/C and Ion Redline, which both cost a couple of thousand more, and others in the $20-25K range.
All those use premium fuel too. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How much was an '86 Si? I seem to recall prices right around $10 grand. I don't think that's more than the Si costs today, adjusted for inflation.
-juice
Compare it to base prices for the other trims though:
On the four-seat Civic, base hatch listed at $6000, with the DX at $7800, so the SI cost a lot more relative to the rest of the Civic line than it does today.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The $6000 model was very de-contented, of course, as discussed above, and even the DX did not have A/C. I remember dealers wanted $1800 for A/C back then, so the DX made no sense. You went stripped or fully equipped.
It is a 50% or so premium over the base model, though, wow.
The Fit perhaps tries to be that old DX with A/C. The Fit Sport isn't quite an old Si, though.
-juice
As for the Civic DX, Honda has GOT to stop trying to sell cars without A/C. This is 2006, not 1986!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
putting a key in the door to unlock it really cracks them up, too. :surprise:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
All models will feature power windows, mirrors, ABS, And airbags all around.
And in terms of the current Si, at least in CDN $$$ it is a 50% jump from a base DX coupe to an Si ($18405 vs. $27025).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
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It's worth noting that the profit losses are due to losses through investments and fluctuations in the exchange rates.
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A FIFTY PERCENT increase in sales month over month? Actually, 56%. That's quite startling, and I was expecting good sales results from the new Civic already.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, turns out the Accord worked better for the family (and my wife liked it a lot more). Plus the EX-L had all the goodies the Civic was lacking. Plus, the MPG was not that much lower (26/34 vs. 30/38) manual/manual, and the Accord was a lot more relaxing and comfy to drive (although not quite as "sporty").
The kicker, hte A wasn't really much more expensive (especially when they were at invoice + and the Civic was at MSRP). If you weren't married to the smaller size, it was a fairly logical upsell to many people.
So, it's quite possible that people who were not originally thinking about an Accord ended up with one. IMO, more people came in to look at a Civic and left with an Accord than the other way around.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Nippononly, do you really believe, had Honda offered stripped Civic (CX) of 2000 for MY2007, it would still be priced at $10,750 that MY2000 was?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yaris hatch is de-contented compared to the Yaris sedan. Even the interior is more spartan. Perhaps they saw the hatch was destined to be perceived as "cheap" no matter what they did to it, so they went ahead and made it look cheap, too.
-juice
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1140916555945901184
Kind of misses their demographic, no?
-juice
Agreed.
From what I see, the main reason may be because Honda told a bold step. When I visit the Honda dealer, I notice that a lot of people are liking Honda's futuristic interior/exterior. This a design you either hate, or like.
I don't think you can find a single demographic for tongue-in-cheek humor. You don't have to be blonde to smile at a blonde joke. I think that's the sort of thing they were counting on.
Heck, or NRA card-carrying pickup drivers that wouldn't be caught dead in a Forrin Car.
I don't get who they were targeting. Maybe they just wanted to make fun of both? :confuse:
To me it seemed like they tried to copy what Nissan did (successfully) when GI Joe stole Barbie from Ken.
-juice
1) A decent warranty
2) Doors that lock auto
3) Std rear disc brakes
4) ESC/TC
5) Roadside assistance
6) Price way too high for what you get
7) Some of its safety ratings have fallen behind:
Sonata rceived a 5 Star rating for frontal crash Driver and passenger and 5 Star rating for side crash for front and back passengers.
Accord got a 5 star rating for frontal crash both driver and passenger and a FOUR (4) star rating for side crash for both front AND rear.
You should also read Edmund's comparison it shows Sonata well ahead as well.
I see Hyundai taking past them in the next few years.
2006 January Sales
The Honda Civic had a Gold rating from IIHS.
The Accord had (2/3 lower injuries than Sonata)
The Accord won the CR/C&D/MT comparison.
Will the SI be priced more than the CSX?
I did like the seats in the Si better (by a lot) than the ones in the EX, which were a deal breaker for me.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
They really should just switch over to American trim levels, instead of their Si being our EX and their SiR being our Si.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I predict this to be a successful model for the Civic lineup.
Auto locking doors are annoying. You reach for the handle and you're locked in. Just hit the power locks if you really want that.
OK, rear discs, maybe, but you can't complain about that *and* cost, because you just added $200 to the price.
Their SUVs have VSC, all except the Element.
Price is definitely not too high - consumers are willing to pay MSRP or close for a Civic. If prices were too high noone would be buying them at all, even at invoice.
As mentioned above, Civic is the Gold award winner by IIHS, and I don't believe any Hyundais made that list.
-juice
I have also read in one or two places that it remains 3/36, period. I would love to know which is true. If it has in fact increased to include 5/60 powertrain, it is about on par with the market, I would say, and certainly ahead of Chevy/Ford/Dodge.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I do see Hyundai as THE up and coming company in the US market, though. They began improving their quality years ago. They starting designing interesting vehicles about 8 years ago. And they've recently begun fixing the most glaring issue with their mid-size cars... the last generation of engines were stinky. The new ones are much better.
They come along much farther and faster than the domestics or the 2nd tier Japanese companies (Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Subaru, etc.).
*GASP* :surprise: *cough*
You didn't think I'd let that slide by without comment, did you?
We're on the subject of safety, so while the Civic rightfully deserves respect, so does the Gold winning Subaru Legacy, which beat any and all Acuras and Hondas in its class by the way.
Therefore I see it this way:
Gold (1st Tier): Legacy, Civic, 9-3, etc.
Silver (2nd Tier): Passat, Jetta, etc.
Need Improvement (3rd Tier): other Hondas, Acuras.
:P
http://www.iihs.org/news/2005/iihs_news_120405.pdf
The explanation is surprisingly simple - a lack of active head rests, with the exception of the Civic, of course.
I'm sure next model year Honda and Acura will move up to 2nd or 1st tier and join Subaru among the elite in terms of safety.
Funny thing? Volvo is MIA from the list, not one on there!
-juice
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/head_honda.html
-juice
Probably great news to people who like cars with trunks.
Sorry, not what I meant. In the second paragraph of my post, I was no longer talking about safety. I was talking about the success Hyundai has achieved as a result of improvements they've made to quality, engines, interiors, and design. I'm talking about success, not any one feature.
In recent year, Hyundai's moves have allowed them to earn more and more buyers. Their increases in market share are as large as those by Toyota (relatively speaking). The changes they've made have earned them customers.
Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Suzuki have not been nearly as successful. Subaru, for example, has been hovering around the 1.1% marketshare line for about a decade. I do not dispute that Subaru makes safe, efficient, quality products. In general, I greatly prefer them to the Hyundais. But my preferences, your preferences, and how good their cars may really be does not change the fact that Hyundai is making more headway.
Honda does need to make the improvements I recommended and I bet they will.
I paid MSRP for my Pilot in summer 2003 because my wife had to had that car nd they were hot then. I really wanted a 2006 Civic EX bad but I refused to pay MSRP so at least one person was turned off by the price. I bought a 2006 Hyundai Sonata and really like it alot.
Also,I meant their MSRP price in general is a bit high.
We should not overlook the fact that Hyundai really struggled for a while there, in fact I consider this their 2nd wave of success.
Shortly after their launch in the US market, the Excel was the best selling import car, bar none. What followed was a mess of poor quality and customers that left the brand in droves, and that resulted in them shuttering up their Canadian plant and leaving the government of Canada to foot the bills. It was a PR disaster.
This 2nd wave is really sort of a come back, and I agree that they are on quite a roll right now, this time backed up by substantial product, and for that they deserve to be commended. Finbarr O'Neil's warranty strategy got the buying public's attention, but it's good product that has sustained their current march upward (even though Finbarr is long gone).
Are they are major threat to Honda? Not so much, I think whatever market share they've stolen has come mostly at the cost of Ford and GM.
-juice
They got rid of my least favorite thing on the sedan - the tacky chrome grille. This one appears to be body color (silver).
The rims and spoiler should go, also. And leave the carbon fiber hood to the aftermarket.
The overall package looks great, though. I bet it sells very well.
Here's Edmunds coverage:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/AutoshowArticles/articleId=109250
-juice
The rims seem concept-sized (beautiful shape though), and a lot of that body work will probably be a very expensive option, which is too bad. Same with those brakes. They should've just shown the production car.
I like the rims, downsized a little for the street. But I bet the production car gets the same rims as the coupe.
This will make a natural competitor to the GLI, as the Edmunds review mentions, as well as the Cobalt SS S/C, and will now leave Toyota's sad little Corolla XRS squarely in the dust. Plus, I hear there will be a Caliber SRT4 a year from now - another natural competitor in size, power, and price, even if it is not a sedan.
I bet the SI sedan will sell better than the SI coupe, but I am still shocked Honda made the move to offer one. Talk about shredding the SI hatch tradition, eh?! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)