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Daimler's abuse of the Dodge Charger legacy.

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Comments

  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I looked at a Charger SXT at the local Dodge dealer. The sticker was $25,000+. At that price, Pontiac and Buick should be worried. This car blows the LaCrosse and Grand Prix out of the water.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    Well, Pontiac should be worried, but I think the LaCrosse is aimed at a different buyer.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    while on vacation in Florida. On the last leg of the trip down, once I finally got too tired to drive I laid down in the back seat and let one of my buddys take over. I saw the roofline of a car that passed that I didn't immediately identify. Made me hop up to look, and sure enough, it was a Charger! From the back, at night, it looks a lot like an Intrepid, except that the taillights light up with two distinctive circles on each side.

    Me likey! :shades:
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,441
    go for it. Get something nice to put in the new garage.

    You seem more like a CHarger guy than a 300C guy too.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    Yeah, there is just something weird about seeing a 300C going through a burnout box.
  • utterutter Member Posts: 79
    "Just read an article on the Charger in one of my magazines (I think it was last weeks Autoweek). ANyway, they loved it, and made plenty of good points about the 4 door controversy."

    The article is online...good read:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=102470
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    People may be tired of the UPS ad by now, which goes,' let's race the truck ', so how about a new one. Dodge could have a let's race the Marathon Taxi car ad. At 4,000# one or two brisk trips around the ol' race course and it is time for new tires. This has got to be one of the strangest cars to date. Sort of like a high school design project to turn a 300 car into something sporty. Saw a couple at the local dealership. Have yet to see them on the road. It does look better when you actually view the car instead of photos on the Net, but that is about as far I'd go in saying anything kindly about this new look. The 300M or the Intrepid were by far more pleasing to the eye. The new 300 hits the mark for those looking for different sort of luxury car. Guess you can pretend you have a Bentley, or something. To make a sporty car out of it is a stretch indeed. Let's race the taxi!
    To refresh memory - The Marathon pic link http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/checker8201.htm
    Loren
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    The new Charger is a 2006 representation. The old cars were not Pony cars like Mustangs, but Chevelle/Torino competitors. Today's real world buyer wants better access into the interiors.

    Anyway, compared to the 75-77 Cordoba clone Charger or the Omni one, the "fer der" is way better. ;)
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Since some people are buying it, what can I say. Looks like a hack job on a 300 to me, but if it sells, that is all that matters. I guess today's buyer is fatter, and has a bad back, like me, so taller and fatter cars make marketing sense. Looked at a PT, and it is real easy to get in and out of. Looks cool and I could buy three of them for the price of one Charger -- OK, just kidding. I may buy one though. For a bigger car that gets up and goes, I'd say the Magnum, Mustang or GTO for around $30K or under is what I would consider. With gas to hit $3 or more a gallon, gas consumption does come into play. Anyway, I can see why someone would be interested in the boss looking 300 or Magnum, but I don't really get what the Charger is suppose to be. The front, side and back don't seem to be made for one car. Oh well, the high door window sills on most of these new cars is a turn off anyway. Lots of flat sided, huge doors, with little slits for windows. How do you hang an elbow out? Would be a good thing too to start a diet program for new cars. Seems they are gaining a few pounds per decade. OK, I am too :surprise:
    Loren
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    i kind of wanted to like this car stylingwise, but it just looks awkward.
    just saw the "now you're messing with a ...." commercial. reminded me of my old expedition, loved giving it the gas coming out a toll booth.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    I like 'em better in person than in the pics I think. Front looks good to me. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Daytona R/T version (yeah, that's right...I love the tacky stripe-and-spoiler look when it comes to muscle cars...:blush: )

    I like the ad too...who's the band doing the song (Nazareth cover/sample)?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    is the best looking part of the Charger! It's turned off some people and has been criticized as being too SUV-like, but hey, that's how cars USED to look, before all distinction was lost in an aerodynamic blur.

    Now I'll admit that it's anything BUT a beauty queen, but it's one of those cars that I'd classify as "ugly, but in a cool sort of way" :P I want one.
  • darwinlovesudarwinlovesu Member Posts: 1
    I know its just a car, but i think it's also an incredibly creative response to a fickle market that's full of coulda-woulda-should Monday morning engineers that couldn't design their way out of a paper bag.
    Designing a machine that's part legislation, part materials, part feel and all ego is NOT easy. Otherwise we wouldn't be a wash in designs that evoke nothing.
    The new technically AMAZING Corvette is still wearing one of the most tired sports car bodies to ever be built. For that matter, GM only has 3 or 4 cars worth looking at, much less spending $$ on... I just can't remember what they are.
    I can't even recall what a Ford 500 looks like 10 seconds after I see it.
    GTOhh my god that's so "nothing" to even be called ugly.

    Hats off to DC for having the courage to go for a unique look that only whiners & old (& cheap) farts will ever find fault with.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    maybe i'm older than some others. guess it means i've seen more types of styling. i preferred the concept car from about 5 years ago to the current design charger. i do think the black stripe on the rear fender on the daytona(?) model improves the look. so what beautiful design do you drive?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • digaditdigadit Member Posts: 1
    It is true,
    The pusrist may not find much solice in the design aspects of the 05 Charger.
    At first look, its hard to find any retro influence at all... I suspect this was deliberate
    on behalf of Mr.Creed's design team. If their task was to deliver a rear-drive model that combines technology, current market styling (less retro) with ample hp, then they suceeded.

    The disgruntaled pusrist never makes mention of the 340 hp HEMI in the base RT model that delivers both performance and economy with a state-of-the-art drivetrain
    that with a switch of a button, will go between burn-out mode and a no-slip, off the line start that will launch the driver off the local traffic light -like they're at the local dragstrip.
    Sunday, Sunday , Sunday!!

    I suggest the purist must get over his hurdles after an ample raod test.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,441
    I'll toss this out (then duck): If it wasn't for he Dukes of Hazzard, this thread woun't exist, and hardly anybody would even remember what a '68 Charger looks like! It never was quite the icon that a Mustang (or Camaro) was.

    Mopar nuts and other "purists" can be excluded from that statement (and I guess people who really liked Bullit)!

    It is at least 30 years since they made a "real" Charger. At least the ponys lasted until recently (Camaro/Firebird) or are still going ('Stang).

    WOnder if there would have been this much uproar if they had produced the '99 concept instead? It almost seems the discussion has shifted away from the classic, and more toward the concept, as the point of comparison.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    is that the '99 concept WAS a 4-door! It was a closely-coupled 4-door, but a 4-door nonetheless. Think of it as the precursor to the Benz CLS, which they call a "4 door coupe". Now I'll admit that I LOVED the 1999 concept, but that was from a different era altogether now. Back then, the plan was for there to be two different styles of LX car for both Chrysler and Dodge. There would be a taller, upright design, most likely called Intrepid and Concorde, which would reflect the trend toward taller cars that was starting around that time, and then there would be a low-slung, sporty style, most likely called the Charger and the 300N.

    The '99 style was really a looker, but wouldn't have been a good mass market car. It would've been more of a niche product most likely, and not enough volume to stand on its own. But, even if the actual Charger isn't the looker the '99 Concept was, it could always be worse. They could've gone in the direction of that Dodge Super Eight Hemi concept of a few years ago! Although in some respects, I think they DID go in that direction, with the nose...

    image

    And Stickguy, I'd agree that it was probably the Dukes of Hazzard that made the Charger famous. Or infamous...take your pick!
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    It seems to me that D-C had was invoking same design philosophy as it did with the PT Cruiser: create a style that evokes a retro connection, but without specifically identifiable retro design cues.

    Anyone on the street will say the PT Cruiser has a retro design, but they'd be hard pressed to say what vehicle specifically the design mimics (1940s hot rod? 1920s gangster car? 1930s delivery van?)

    The Charger design theme seems designed to evoke the theme of a musclecar rather than a specific vehicle of the past. It's big & blocky, rwd, and made vaguely menacing/ominous through the juxtaposition of a somewhat ordinary design with everyone's knowledge of what's under the hood. The mid-1990s Impala SS had the same idea.

    By way of contrast, say "2005 Mustang" and just about everyone says "1968 Mustang." Different design philosophy entirely.

    As much as I like the new Mustang, I'm willing to bet the Charger design wears better in the long run. Obvious retro gets stale fast.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Hummm, what is tired about about the Corvette? Looks to me like it is the beauty and the beast, well ya know which car that is. You may as well face the facts, the Charger is a make over of the 300 gone awry. Looks like some high school class project - the one that lost. They had a very fine looking car, which I assume cost too much to make, and was scrapped. Too bad it did not make it. The 300M was a great design. Are we now in a new era of truck-cars? No offence to the El Camino, which looks fine ;)
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Mustang got a little too close to the 1968-69 and interior wise the 1965, and thus becomes something of a replica car. A good one at that, but non-the-less, a bit too retro. Seems to be a good value for the money, and not bad looking compared to some other THINGS on the road. I think the 1994-98 were about the best looking Stangs. They captured the original theme in a modern shape, with smooth flowing lines. Looks smaller too. The New Stang, is getting a little fatter. Actually the '99 gained a little size. I think they should have stayed the course with modern Mustangs, based on the spirit of the pony car. As for the Charger, it does not seem to fit anything class wise. The 300 and Magnum seem OK, in their own strange way. At a certain point, it has to stop. Why don't they just have Dodge trucks and Chrysler cars? I hope they bring some lighter and smaller cars into the line-up. Something with smooth and sporty lines. I think the block look fades away, sales wise, within a short period of time. In the 1964-67 period things had to be rectangle, followed by some beautiful cars, like the 1968 Malibu SS and the Camaro. The box died. Well, I must admit, some like the box look and thus the success of the xB by Scion. Looks like a circus car to me, but what the heck, it sells. My guess is four years on the big boss looking boxy car look cars. I could be wrong, as people still think an SUV box is stylin' !
    :shades:
    Loren
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    Anyone looking to purchase a Charger or any other new Chrysler vehicle should wait until Chrysler offers an employee discount similiar to what GM is offering in order to bolster sales. Chrysler will be offering this soon in order to bolster sales lost to GM due to the generous discounts offered by the General. Those that are non believers please turn to Page D-3 of the Wall St. Journal.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    my Intrepid's around 108,000 miles now, and my old Silverado is rusting away at around 115,000, with broken a/c, an intermittent radio, and one disabled fuel tank (thankfully it has two) Maybe this would be a good time to go get a new Charger AND a new Ram! Wonder if I'd get an additional discount for going bulk? :shades:
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I've said over in the GM post - the real advantage, at least IMO, of the employee price thing is that is no-haggle, no-hassle.

    If you're a good negotiator and willing to spend hours haggling with your salesman and his boss, then you can probably have a very similar "bottom line" price to the employee price, depending on how big the rebates are right now for Dodge/Chrysler. The difference is, the employee deal is painless, quick, no haggling...!

    It also wouldn't shock me if the employee price wasn't available for the Charger. GM excludes the Corvette. I guess it depends on how well the Charger is selling.
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    I agree with you, I'm wondering if they will exclude the hotter selling 300C and the new Charger. I just don't understand if a product is so good why would it sell so cheap? I understand that they want to capitalize on the recent GM buyers, but quality should speak for itself. Lexus would never offer this.
    GM offered 0% APR after 9/11 and the rest of the big 3 followed suit. This allowed for quick sales in the short term but hurt GM in the long run which is why they have reverted to this employee purchase plan. Oh well, good for the consumers. GM should have shed Buick a few years back. They have not made a car for someone under 40 since the Grand National.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    That's just it...with GM esp. the product *isn't* so good, so they have to offer incentives to get people to buy it.

    Someone recently said that GM has to offer incentives to get people to tolerate having one of their cars in their driveway, while companies like Toyota and Honda make cars that people actually want to have in their driveway.

    Buick AND Pontiac need to go.

    How are the Chargers selling anyway?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    True, but I for one find most of the Toyota and Honda line mostly boring. The Accord Coupe is great looking, but not rated as very sporty for handling. I will take a look at the
    G6 and the Aura when they come out. I own a Toyota now, and would have considered a Celica, but Toyota is no longer interested in sporty cars and has dropped it. Honda dropped the Prelude, and the Accord and Civic no longer have the snappy steering/handling of days-gone-bye. The Monte Carlo has some style, love or not, as compared to the standard jelly bean style of most Japan makes. Not saying a Mazda6 or an Altima is not a pretty cool car, but that does not make all GM cars a poor choice. My Dad has had good luck with his Camry, but was informed by Toyota of the possible sludge problem. Domestic cars are pretty reliable since 2002 and worthy of consideration. The Chrysler products offer choices for those wanting something different, from the cool little PT to the ummmm, different Charger, they don't look just like all the rest Japan so-so, boring styled cars. Does a Camry, in the current form, excite you? The new LaCrosse has some fine lines to it. As for wanting something in their driveway, I will take a Corvette - thank you!
    Loren
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Re styling, agree 100%...most of the Japanese "bread and butter" cars are to me the equivalent of automotive toasters: pure appliances. The soporific design of today's Accords calls to mind the nickname for the Prelude years ago...the "Qualude." ;)

    But for most buyers out there, that's just fine by them. Reliability and build quality are way more important to them than cool design or fun driving experience. Those of us who haunt the "enthusiast" forums here on Edmunds are a distinct minority in the automotive marketplace...so it goes I guess.

    Chrysler is definitely leading the way on quality improvement, and even GM has its successes now and again. But overall, the big 3 are still playing catch up with rest of the world.
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    "Buick AND Pontiac need to go."

    Buick.... I agree! But Pontiac could be the "sports car" division of GM if things are done the right way. I owned a '94 Pontiac Bonneville and loved it! It was a sporty looking car, fun to drive, and a great family sedan all in one. But GM tried to cut corners on the later versions and they just weren't as good and now the Bonneville is just another dead skeleton in GM's graveyard. GM is going down the wrong path. Look what they've done to the Cadillac line. Cadillac's used to be classy cars, but now they all look like they just came from outer space. I hate the boxy futuristic-looking Cadillac designs... yuck! :sick: I don't understand GM's logic these days I guess. As a long time GM customer, no thanks! I'll pass.... even with employee pricing. The new Charger reminds me of my Bonneville with that mean looking front end. I'm waiting for one to show up at the dealer so I can check it out in person. We'll see....
  • utterutter Member Posts: 79
    The discount might be coming depending on whether GM extends the offer. Does not mention whether the Charger will be available.

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0507/05/A01-231963.htm
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    that mainly focuses on GM...
    http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20050705&ID=49- 40954
    It says that GM is extending employee pricing through August 1, and that Chrysler is going to start its program tomorrow. Doesn't mention if it includes all vehicles or just the slow selling ones, though.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    That Chrysler will exclude certain cars, like the Viper, the SRT cars, etc...just like GM excludes the Corvette. No need to discount a car that's doing Ok in the market already....
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Any one know if the Charger is selling well? I see pretty few of them on the road, but I could say the same with the new Mustang, and we all know they're selling like gangbusters...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    the only sales stats I've seen are for May, which was when the Charger came out. 1841 sold. Keep in mind, though, that the car didn't come out until later in the month, and brand-new cars don't flood into the dealerships like they used to back in the old days. Seems like more of a trickle nowadays, until they build up steam.

    In comparison, Chrysler sold 12,958 300's in May, and Dodge sold 5,035 Magnums.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    guess I should've google'd first! Dodge sold 4,354 Chargers in June.
    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/07/01/136414.html
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Wow...those 300s are popular. Way too "luxury" for me, but clearly not for most people. Good initial showing for the Charger I'd say. Can't wait to see the Daytona R/T version... :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    contrary to normal trends, I believe the most popular model of the 300 is the top-line C. At one point, it was accounting for 40% of 300 sales, leaving the base, Limited, and Touring to scrap for the remaining 60%. Usually it's the cheaper trim levels that make up the bigger chunk of sales, and not the top ones.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Looks like people are buying the Charger. I didn't think the thing would sell, but I overlooked the market for those that once owned an SUV or Truck " muscle car, as in big engine " vehicle, which are looking for something new to drive. They want big and bulky, yet powerful. Well it has been delivered, and people are buying this thing. I was totally wrong in assuming what a sporty car really is today to some people. If it sells, it is good - well at least for the bottom line - Go Dodge Go!
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    I have been unable to find a charger on any dealer lots here. They trickle in and are gone within a few days. The dealer is supposed to call me when the next few arrive. I look forward to seeing one in person.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Our local dealer got three right away, so I bet you will some arrive in your home town really soon. Let me know what you think when you see one. I think at least one, and maybe two sold off the first three cars within a few days. Some people are buying this car. Chrysler and Ford are starting the Employee Pricing Program, I think on Weds. At least Ford will be announcing on Weds. I may look at the PT again. The 300 and Magnum and Charger may not be in the special pricing program. Hummm, maybe just trucks and PTs? One thing for certain, all the newer Chryslers look like no other car on the road. I kinda liked the old 300M, but it is sadly gone. So, do people like this new Charger, looks wise? I recall some strange attempts in the 60's to get the pony car look down right.... some strange Chargers back when, followed by some awesome looking cars, like the Challenger, and some cool looking Barracudas, once they sorted out the lines on that thing. The PT has sort of that look of the 39 Ford whiskey runner car, the 300 and Magnum sort of a bossy look and perhaps classy in some colors. Does the Charger hit the mark? What is the mark? The new Dukes of Hazard sedan? What style points are correct in your view? How does this look compare with the Monte Carlo? Yea, I know FWD, but other than that - just the rest of the look and features.
    Loren
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,441
    in the paper today that Ford is joining, so DC has to follow suit. No mention of exclusions.

    Looks like Andre will have his Charger by August after all!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    it doesn't look like the Charger is included in the employee pricing. At least, not yet...

    http://www-5.dodge.com/incentives/Startup.jam?Brand=Dodge&SalesMarket=U&language=en&ModelY- ear=&Model=brand
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    I doubt the Mustang will qualify for Ford, either.... Bascially, if the car doesn't have any rebate or "promotion" going on right now, there's no reason for it to be on the "employee price" list. I don't think Dodge will have the Charger at employee price, either....

    I've seen a few on the road... I saw one a few days ago in Black... looked really good in black, IMO...
  • utterutter Member Posts: 79
    Seems to be the case. Since the Charger has hit the dealerships I have been hearing more positive reviews from random folks. In the end, the autostick seems to be doing well and the look is a lot better in person. With the R/T trickling in it will probably keep going.
  • plum500plum500 Member Posts: 12
    Here's more what I would have preferred seeing. Still needs tweaking -- sides on the back view, angle between vents/scallops, definition, blah blah blah...you'll get the idea...

    image">
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Looks good...but that could easily be more or less the design of the upcoming Challenger! :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    from the rear. It has a futuristic look to it, while at the same time recalling the '68-70 Charger.
  • plum500plum500 Member Posts: 12
    ...sigh... It's meant as a Charger though...not a Challenger...world apart in style, size, and purpose.... though I hope they don't take the same general approach with the Challenger as they...well, anyway, at least they are starting with an (supposed) intention that suits the (Challenger) name more. Though the target date is so far out there, maybe they are shooting for another point in the curve, and will attempt more "re-defining". Perhaps I'm a little bitter, cynical, and jaded :D
  • plum500plum500 Member Posts: 12
    ..cool, that was the intention! :)
  • tex10tex10 Member Posts: 27
    :shades: thats what mopar is all about cool cars and with lot of speed and with lot of horsepower
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Of course they were right on the mark. They do know what they are doing for crying out loud! So what it's a four door......it has a look like a 2 door anyway. Besides with the Hemi and the sporty look very few will complain. That's what sells for them. How many 2-door Sebrings/Stratus did they sell? Not many.... it's rare to see either one. 2 DOOR CARS ARE NOT POPULAR ANYMORE!

    If anyone wants a 2 door Charger buy the classic "original" then.
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