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Hybrids & Diesels - Deals or Duds?
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uh....because if we don't, then capitalism will struggle?
US foreign policy is not overly concerned with keeping the price of oil down; it is concerned with doing what it can to keep governments from exerting any real control over access to oil resources within their countries.
It's going to be interesting with China playing a role. They've been very vocal at how they are going to sign FAIR contracts with countries - a very obvious slap at Chevron/EXXONMOBIL. It's going to be pretty funny if countries select China as a trading partner (or resource development partner) over US-based companies. Well, not funny, really. Sad, actually.
Capitalism will not struggle in Europe and Asia. So if we are not wanted in those areas, I think it best we save the trouble and money and get out of those places. So we made America safe for importation of BMW and VW's!!??? Or even off topic Ferrari's etc. For example, Europe, Korea, Japan and the list goes on. Now really can you think of any of those places that really LOVE US?? Go back to WW2, WE (USA) helped to beat back the would be oppressores. What do nations we had helped think of us? What does France think of us 60-70 years after the fact?
who the heck is "us"?
I have never encountered any nagative feelings when I have traveled overseas, and that includes international travel to Norway, Sweden, Denmark, France, Italy, Germany and Switzerland in the last 5 years. Places that have lots of "anti-American" feelings. I have been welcomed, as a PERSON, and as an American. True, no one is slapping me on the back saying "Nice job getting rid of Saddam," but they also aren't reeming me for Bush. Everyone understands that America is a diverse country and that not all of us want to impose our views on every other person on the planet. Granted, I am sure I would get into many more heated discussions if I waved an American flag and wore a Bush-Cheney button. The world is filled withpeople, not nations. Nations are a legal construct - they do not have feelings. People have feelings.
When I was in Norway, I met people who are STILL, to this very day, thankful for America's role in WWII. That is 60 years ago!!!
I'm not sure where the Soviet came from. I am not pro-Soviet. I believe in the market. But I also believe that companies need to be held accountable. And they are working VERY hard to eliminate that accountability. And that does not bode well for 99.9% of the people of the world, very likely including the children of every single person here.
If you have $10 million in the bank, you're probably fairly safe, for another generation, at least.
who the heck is "us"? "...
Don't know what to tell you. However YOU (and I ) are paying for these "programs" done in our name!!
If something like this ever becomes reality, you will not have to choose between diesel and hybrid.
Here is the article
UPSHOT: Many posts ago, I mentioned one of the many at market problems considerations etc was the capital (absolutely HUGE) investments necessary to bring ANY product to market.
Upshot #2 you just increased the cost of a gal of gas for literally decades to come. Oil companies continue to of course make their .05 cent per gal profit (as per the Chevron CEO)
Lets take something as conceptually easy as CA MTBE. In theory you put say 10% of MTBE in unleaded regular. Then , you find it it pollutes far more and creates more costly mitgation that costs way more than even unleaded regular to mitigate. OK you wise up and say no more use. Well you just required EVERYONE to make capital investments to the infrastructure. Now you have to still put it in unleaded regular even as you implement a 5/10 year exit strategy.
Again this is why off the shelf technology diesel might be the solution for the next 30 years. Advantages?
1. Proven use for at least 100 years.
2. 37% advantage over unleaded regular.
3. you actually can use less oil
4. you actually can import less oil
5.. It has the capability of being in several categories of renewable resources.
6. It can be processed from already "dedicated" waste streams.
7. New process' can be tapped to further use waste streams not yet harnessed.
8. Can be developed and processed domestically.
9. Much of the current infratructure can be used and if it becomes more widespread in use modifications cost less to do than new and full development of other sources.
10. diesel process points (akin to unleaded gas refineries are way cheaper to build and can be located remotely, locate at the sources of production, as well as close to the sources of demand.
As an example; biodiesel can be processed in your back yard. This is almost literally impossible with unleaded regular.
> gal of gas for literally decades to come.
You lost me here. How is going to 100% electric going to increase the cost of gasoline for decades to come? :surprise:
The regulators in CA (in its wisdom or lack there of)at one time pushed to mandate the production of ALL electric cars. The intention was to mandate ANY manufacturer who sold cars in CA, to produce 2% of cars sold in CA to be ALL ELECTRIC. The overall goal was to have 2% of the passenger vehicle fleet to be all electric. SO car oems were faced with capital investing to bring all electric cars to CA, or face the prospects of not being able to sell cars in the BIGGEST car market, quite possibly on the planet. And of course, so as CA goes, so goes the nation!!! The regulators of course didn't really factor in the infrastructure considerations as they were probably more concerned about being able to mandate this and in effect to HELL with the consequences. Funny things did happen.
But convinced of the righteousness, the all electric vehicles rolled out and NOBODY, I MEAN NOBODY bought them NOT even the environmentalist folks who lauded the mandating of all electric vehicles!!! I even was part of the process in getting an all electric truck for our city, even as I was convinced it was not a good thing, and let it be known. We took delivery of a FORD Ranger all electric truck at a cheap contract price of 28,000 dollars, with full press coverage and of course it didn't WORK !!!!
So what were the oems to do with the now wasted investment? Yup they write it off, which of course increases the prices of later cars as they try to recoup the losses.
Then of course the electrical and natural gas energy situation hit which of course did its deed to push the prices of electrical and natural gas energy up by a very substantial percentage. Rolling black outs over wide spread areas of CA sort of woke folks up. Then it became MORE than VERY apparent that CA needed a boat load of power plants, which of course the environmentalists had been very successful in not getting built anywhere near what was needed. In addition the power plants were mandated to be fueled by natural gas of which we have precious littlethat we can access in CA. Again this helped to drive up the price of natural gas as some new plants came online and others were being converted to natual gas. I mean now with the energy OFF or in peril, even environmentalists like AC and lights and hot water even in city buildings they tend to inhabit and all the other comforts and accoutrements any big city (BIG ENERGY DRAW?) offers. Even Starbucks would not taste the same without electricity and tsk tsk if you had to burn wood or even gas to heat water.
Also another interesting thing became how would they collect the "road and sin" taxes through gasoline taxes if electricity was used??? They could not levy another tax on utilities such as gas and electric as they were already taxation levied. Another thing that was worried about was solar set ups where essentially they could not collect ANY taxation with electric energy use.
So to make a longer story even shorter the 2% all electric cars was never enacted into law or regulation. We are of course paying for this in higher fuel prices and higher vehicle prices.
If we combine this with a reasonable electric energy generation policy (nuclear power plants), we could completely divorce ourselves from the Middle East. I cannot image a happier event in my lifetime.
> dirty Chinese coal consumption
Nah, Kyoto will cure it all.
Oh, sorry, wrong topic.
on the other hand, gasoline isn't exactly the safest fuel to be tossing around either.
for maximum safety, use diesel. it's barely flammable at STP. throw a lit match in it, and it will not ignite.
Im buying an EV though. Its a battery powered scooter I can ride to the train, and then from the station to work. It has NIMO batteries. This just HAS TO work.
They have removed the charging stations that were installed at Costco.
> dirty Chinese coal consumption
Nah, Kyoto will cure it all.
Oh, sorry, wrong topic.
The real ironic thing was the only country that would of be held totaly responsible to paying the cost was the USA while others were not held at all.
All you gatta do is read the fine print and see which peremiters will be inforced and which are just for show.
I am glad the USA didn't sign that rigged docoument.
So much for the fairness of the rest of the world to the USA, huh!
However, the USA really needs to take the lead and not follow many years behind on the EU and their low polution controls of which various alt/fuels for both auto and power systems need to come online.
Actually our emissions regulations are more strict than most of the EU countries. We have let the oil companies slide on getting the sulfur out of gas and diesel. As far as Kyoto. Japan has not met their own standard set up in the treaty. I do not know of a country that has signed on that has met the goals. Tony Blair made it clear that the goals set forth in the Treaty were impossible in a growing economy.
(Or with crazy folks, but I digress)
As for the USA to pick up the TAB? Why is that any different from the UN diplomats owning New York City and using diplomatic immunity to make it their personal playground?
China if it continues the pace it is on will within a decade use more oil than the USA. Surely China's pollution mandates and enforcements are not anywhere NEAR the standard in CA and in the USA.
So anyone who believes the Kyoto Accords were meant to stem the world wide oil use is simply not in touch with the realities. Nice warm enviro fuzzies, however.
For my .02 cents, I would also agree and by professional education, am not an EE.
Evidently even Toyota in building the Prius AGREED. They could have easily mated an EV-1 system with the hybrid technology and/or offered it as an option.
(Toyota of course if folks didn't know had one of the better EV-1 systems in a smallish Corolla based "SUV" the name of the model escapes me at this writing)
(see guys, don't start on the magic wand wish list here
San Jose Mercury News
In Depth Analysis*Background* Debate Sunday June 11, 2006 Page 3A
(headline- my sic)
"China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years."
China's growing coal reliance sends dark cloud around the world...
..."Unless China finds a way to clean up its coal plants and the thousands of factories that burn coal, pollution will soar both at home and abroad. The increase in global-warming gases from China's coal use will probably exceed that for all industrialzed countries combined over the next 25 years, surpassing by 5 times the reduction in such emissions that the Kyoto Protocol seeks." ...
Everyone in the World knows that except Robert Kennedy Jr.
Diesel fuel can be "alternative" fuel
On a 2003 VW Jetta TDI 42/49 EPA
2003 VW Jetta 1.8t 24/31 EPA
2003 VW Jetta 2.0 24/31 EPA
Information on the new V6 Chrysler diesel.
I think that all that needs happen here in the USA is for the environmentalists to get their way and have the cost of unleaded regular gasoline rise even further than where it is now. To really accelerate the trend to diesel: to let them raise transportation taxation !!! It is no more mathematical than: would you rather pay 37% more, or 37% less? It has always been this way but the higher per barrel prices really drive home this point.
You could have gotten an F250 with diesel, or a Dodge Ram. Both are available in all states.
I looked at the domestic PU trucks with diesel. They are overkill and not worth the Premium to me. If they offered a 1/2 tone with a 3.0L diesel I would be more inclined to purchase. That would offer significant mileage increase. From what I am seeing the EPA & CARB will not be happy until they load the small diesels down with so much crap it loses most of the advantages that are inherent in a diesel engine. My 8k lb MB Sprinter RV gets better mileage than my little GMC PU truck. The least I have gotten is over 20 MPG and as high as 24.8 MPG. There are no gas vehicles that can come close to that. That size RV with gas is lucky to get 10 MPG.
The Chevy 2500, Ford 250 or Dodge 2500 diesel for me also is way too much vehicle.
I said almost exactly the same thing a couple of years ago in these forums, but back then the gas still had not reached the pain level, so I was poopooed for heresy. I think our views will slowly have to be taken seriously if the Big Two want to survive.
Whereas Suport Usama Vehicles are a very small part of their vehicles owned.
There is actually a group that will put stickers on those vehicles ridicuing them for being a fossil fuel hog and unessarily sucking up fossil fuels.
\
I mean we could put "Green Hypocrite Snob" stickers on Toyota Prius' but what would that prove?
Oil company execs defend high pump prices By JOHN HEILPRIN, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060618/ap_on_bi_ge/us_oil_production
Can anyone guess the author of the above anti-diesel statement?
It is sad that certain individuals continue to spread diesel hate and ignore the inherent efficiency.
We know he is less than truthful as the 2007 Jetta is not on the roads yet. All that I have read is there will be no 2007 Jetta TDI. From the sound of the post I would say they are having buyers remorse on the hybrid purchase. All the VW TDIs are sold and they are stuck with that funny looking Prius for another couple years.
While I certainly respect someones right to have their opinions and in effect to act on them, i.e., to buy a car based on one car being so called "quieter" than another, it probably would not pass the independent comparisons scutiny on this thread.
The articles I read on the 2007 VWs said that VW was stockpiling 2006 diesel models for sale next year...
http://www.aceee.org/transportation/taxcredits06.pdf
In Wake of High Gas Prices, Demand for Diesel Cars and SUV’s Jumped 31 Percent in 2005.
Think of the increase when they are allowed back into CA..
a $2k tax credit ought to more than pay for the extra cost of the particle-traps or urea-canister-systems in the 2007 & later diesels.
one of my worries about the 2007 & later diesels is what happens WHEN you end up with a tankful of old/too-much-sulfur diesel. will the cat-convs & particle-traps be ruined? that's one reason i took the plunge and snagged a 2nd old-tech TDI - for my spouse who often drives 900 miles per week...