I see you like playing games with semantics. You said Tacomas came with the P265 tires, but mine came with the 31" series. Maybe you need to clarify which models you're talking about instead of making blanket statements (besides, you're the one who didn't know a P265 tire is a 31" tire, LOL!).
No comment on safety. Tried doing a little research here at Edmunds but a lot of the information was listed as "not tested," so that's inconclusive.
I've heard people say their Rangers leak too. Big deal. Anything will leak if you're dumb enough to drive it through a lake. Amazing that in the 13 years or so I've been driving Toyota trucks on flooded streets in Mexico I've never had leaking. Maybe in YOUR pathetic world, Toyotas leak like sivs, but not in mine.
You seem obsessed with scrutinizing specs in brochures and then ranting here everytime you see some "fault" with the Tacoma. Here's the big picture for you:
Tacoma has easily whupped the Ranger in every off-road comparison test (despite its open rear diff); Tacoma is still the only truck to offer a rear locker, an absolute necessity among serious offroaders; Only Tacoma has an available 265 HP turbocharger with a 5/60K mile warranty (kinda blows your 210 HP Ranger out of the water, huh?); Tacoma's 5/60K mile warranty is better than Ford's weak 3/36K mile warranty; In my opinion and experience, Toyotas are more reliable than your Fix Or Repair Daily FORD; In the REAL WORLD (not your world or NADA's or KBB's) Tacoma has a much better resale value, which makes up for the higher initial purchase price.
Maybe you would like to comment on these facts, instead of focusing on things like 8.8" vs. 8.4" rearends, or 16" vs. 15" wheels, ETC.
Does your silence on my unsprung weight question mean you don't know a thing about it? Why didn't you answer it? Somebody with your "expertise" could explain unsprung weight in 2 minutes.
Again, please let me know when the professionals conclude the Ranger is more capable off-road than a Tacoma in their comparison tests...
My explorer (which up until now has been perfect mechanically speaking) has just started having problems with the 4wd. It is randomly engaging in 4wd hi for no apparent reason. Then the 4wd hi and lo lights on the dashboard will start blinking on and off. It's a real pain since once the vehicle is in 4hi, you really can't take a corner on dry pavement without risk of damaging stuff. -Maybe it's the "pulse-vaccum hubs." (sorry, I couldn't pass that up) Since the Ranger has a similar 4wd system, I'm wondering if any of you ranger owners have experienced anything like this. I'm sure the dealership will charge me and arm and a leg just to have it looked at, much less fixed. Thanks in advance!
Pluto, its obvious you're grasping for straws now. now you dont want to compare the hardcore specifications of the two trucks? i listed everything for you. i see your white towel and i will subside. you still need to bow to my tailgate. eagle, just fyi. the explorer does NOT use pulse vacuum engaging hubs. explorer has nothing in common with the ranger 4x4 system. most explorers have automatically engaging 4x4, as well as a switch to put them in 4x4. i had a sport 4x4 before the ranger. it was quite capable too, but too much stuff hung down. again, when pluto gets dogged, he cant take it. but when you read your past posts, you're the one who's angry. im simply just pointing out hard straight facts. tow ratings, gvwr ratings, safety ratings, tire sizes, and what you actually said about that. read it and see exactly what you said. then comment on that. later, i think ill go wash my ranger. )
Lsd has advantanges and cons as well the locker. It all depends on what you want and will utilize.
lsd the clutches need replaced, the locker is for low speed rock crawling, getting up steep slippery grades, so it has limited applications. Except you can bypass that feature so it will engage at any speed in 2 or 4wheel drive.
Simple as cutting one wire on the ECU
Tblunder go to carreview.com and see which truck is rated higher by consumers. Go to consumer digest and see which truck has a higher reliability rating. People don't spend more money because they want to, it is because they want peace of mind. Rangers are good, but not as good.
"Shouldn't your comments on derogatory remarks and character insulting be more fairly aimed at Tblunder?" Maybe so.
"BY FAR, he is more guilty of this than the rest of us combined." Your opinion does not reflect mine, group consensus, or an unbiased perspective.
"Oh, that's right, you wouldn't do that because he's a fellow Ranger fan... Sorry, but you really blew it BIG TIME with that biased remark."
As far as derogatory comments, I am not here to judge. My comment is for all to read, and I surmise only those who reject it are guilty. Just say "I think you are wrong and here's why"... When you think someone is in the wrong, just say so. With each stone you cast, your "higher ground" will wither and fall. (I.E. Each "Maybe in YOUR pathetic world" or "you really blew it BIG TIME" you use, the less likely I'm ever going to be convinced of any facts you try to present.)
"It all goes back to that respect thing. You have to give it to receive it."
Ahh, but where to begin Poncherello? You don't like Ford, but like Toyota with your own reasons. I Like Ford better than I like Toyota for my own reasons.
Also to win a debate, doesn't the other guy have to concede?
For safety and crash statistics, don't try Edmunds (and quit there), goto http://www.nhtsa.gov/ncap/cars/2001Pkup.html. Note: Side crash ratings are Ranger 5 star rating vs. Tacoma 3 star rating. Frontal ratings are closer, but Ranger still is better. This is the government's official findings.
"If you want a good value on a good 4x4 truck, the Ranger is probably your best choice.
If you're looking for the off-road king of 4x4 trucks, and are willing to pay a little more for it, the Tacoma is the ONLY choice. "
I Agree! I do think the '02 FX4 may give Tacoma a run for it's off-road money, however.
And don't forget a detroit locker can be picked up for like $465, right? Powertrax sells a locker for under 300. That's about the cost of ABS for Tacoma's, another standard on Ranger.
On your data of long term reliability (warranties, etc), you might want to check out msn carpoint's Used Vehicle Reliability summary. Numbers of problems and costs to fix them are more on Ranger's side the older the vehicles get. Dozens of SAE master technicians can't be wrong.
Heck in my city I've personally driven 6 different rangers, ranging from '91-'98's, all with over 100k miles on them, two with over 200k miles on them, and only major repairs on them was a automatic transmission on my personal one. The other 5 were delivery trucks for Autozone where I used to work. All 6 are abused daily, even thought I treat mine much better now than when I was a teenager. Rangers may not have a locker or be the ultimate off-road vehicle. Ford Rangers are the toughest, most reliable trucks you can get, so why spend more for "even better" reliability. I'd buy a Tacoma if I planned on keeping it for 20 years, but I'm not that crazy. I don't fear change...
I'm like that guy who first started wearing pants, instead of bushes.
Everytime we compare "hardcore specifications" you are proven wrong!
1. You thought your truck had a locker 2. You were wrong about the "less than 6" rear-end on the Tacoma 3. Smgilles corrected your mistakes on GVWRs 4. You thought all Tacomas had P265 tires, and they don't
I'm sure more of your errors exist, but frankly, I'm tired of going back and finding them all... Besides, why do you continue an argument you're always on the losing end of?
You're the only one here waving the white flag. Since you are incapable of answering my unsprung weight question, I guess I will have to answer it for you.
What is unsprung weight? To answer that, we need to know what sprung weight is - that's the weight being supported by a car's suspension system (engine, body, frame, chassis, etc). The componets NOT being supported by the suspension (wheels, tires, axles, etc) are unsprung weight. Since componets that make up unsprung weight are not stationary, and move as the suspension does its job, it makes sense to have these componets as light as possible. Lighter means they have less effect on the platform to which they are attached, the chassis. And a solid, stable chassis that doesn't lose its composure under cornering, braking and bumpy conditions is what a sports car is all about.
Earlier you said your fender flares and swaybar prevent you from bottoming out your truck's suspension. Really? How is that? I'm hoping you can answer this question, because I sure can't!
Maybe instead of comparing "hardcore specs" (which you keep doing erroneously) you should try comparing our trucks' performance. Oh wait, you wouldn't want to do that. It's a well known and documented fact the Tacoma eats your Ranger for breakfast in that department...
"where to begin, poncherello?" Try Tblunder's post #2440. After that, the host had to delete several of his posts because they were so vulgar. That's where to begin. I will be a man, however, and admit the host deleted a post of mine, but it was in response to Tblunder and was nowhere near as vulgar. Perhaps you are not getting the whole story. I will say Tblunder has calmed down a little, though.
I never said Ford was horrible. If you read my posts, you would know what I've really been saying is the Tacoma isn't total garbage, like Tblunder would like you to believe.
you are totally making up stuff now. i was the one who corrected smiles GVWR numbers. he even conceded that he was wrong on his numbers. can you not read? or are you reading it in mexican?
YOU were the one who didn't think toyota's had 265's on them. you still thought they put flotation 31's on them. thats a hardcore fact.
i was the one who informed YOU that the tacoma came with the smallest standard tires. the 225, and that they stopped putting 31x10.50 tires on them. thats a hardcore fact.
i said i would believe the rear end size of the tacoma being 8.4 with some facts. now i believe it, but NOTE that its still smaller than ford's 8.8 inch rear end. thats a hardcore fact.
the fender flares and sway bar comment i made was a sarcastic comment directed towards your bragging about them. every truck has these things and you act like they can make your truck sprout wings. just another grasp on your part.
about the locker, you may have one. but, when you're not using it, you have an open differential. which means you're one wheeling. i have the lsd which means its gonna kick in and be spinning any time when needed. not just when i push a button and am already stuck.
pluto, you are hilarious as you write your lies. all one needs to do is read back and find your NUMEROUS CONTRADICTIONS. everyone here who reads can spot them, but out of the kindness of their hearts, they will let them slide. i am a very blunt person. i will catch you every time. and frankly, its getting a little old to hear you make up stuff just to try to fight back a little. we all know who builds the most all-around capable truck and their sales numbers back that up a hundred percent.
did you not read your original post i reposted for you about your absurd tire knowledge? its there, but im sure you wont read it, cuz you can NEVER admit you're wrong.
readers, please refer to post #2495. this is where i copied plutonius' original post he made in response to one i made. his contradictions, mistakes, and exaggerations start there, and i point them out nonetheless. im sick of him making up stuff that i said that was erroneous. only erroneous thing i said was that my truck had locker. instead, it has a limited-slip differential-ALL THE TIME. this, imo, is more useful for the real world. again, its been proven that you can equip a ranger with a rear locker, and still have some $2500 to boot when compared to the high price for the toyota. ill stick with my rear lsd, for it works all the time. not just when im climbing a rock wall, in which my lsd will work nearly as good. its clear to me that pman does not like to compare apples to apples. things like gvwr, tow ratings, safety ratings, sizes of components on each truck, standard features to standard features, and the prices those things cost. one example, already pointed out- abs. abs is standard on ranger. it is NOT on tacoma. and i would venture to guess that price for abs, would more than pay for a precious locker on the ranger.
"about the locker, you may have one. but, when you're not using it, you have an open differential. which means you're one wheeling. i have the lsd which means its gonna kick in and be spinning any time when needed. not just when i push a button and am already stuck."
-One thing to remember about LSD's that people often don't think about is their performance on snow/ice. When you're taking a corner on a slippery road with a LSD, especially in a pickup, if you touch the gas at all you can lock that diff up causing you to fishtail instantly. With an open diff this doesn't happen. Don't get me wrong, I like LSD's - I have one in my explorer - but they too have their limitations.
In a previous post someone mentioned there was no ranger crew cab.. Basically Ford has a mini-truck crew cab.. They chose to based on the Explorer (Sport Trac) rather than the Ranger.. I've heard rumors that they are looking at doing a Ranger crew cab too, but to me that wouldn't make any sense to have 2 vehicles that are basically the same.. Maybe if they do the Ranger version, they'll put a bigger bed on it than the Sport trac.
Ford is coming out with a 4 door (front hinged) Ranger in 2003. It is not exactly a crew cab though. You can see pictures in September's edition of Truck Trend magazine. It's basically a Ranger super cab with 4 doors on it. Ford does not want to take sales away from the SportTrac.
hmm, id like to see this. i wish i had the magazine. and i think their site is still either down or under construction. a supercab with four real doors? what good would that do? you still have the same space inside, right? i have a four-door sc, its nice, but a real back seat would rock. there just is not enough space inside the sc for this. i read somewhere that the Ranger is going to be totally redone in '03. you can see pictures of the new ranger at www.therangerstation.com, it is already in production in the Phillipines. i dont know if the US version will be at all like this, but the interior is identical to that of the all new explorer. jury is still out on this one. the new S10 is supposedly due for '03 as well (new name possibly-"Colorado"). both trucks are supposed to be made a little bigger, slightly smaller than dakota territory, but larger than the current model.
eagle- regarding your lsd comments. i agree with you totally. but, when driving on slippery roads in which there is a chance of sliding out, i would assume one would have the transfer case in 4x4 mode. that would alleviate the chances to almost nill. compared to an open diff. (what tacoma has when not locked in), especially in the snow, the traction would be phenomenal with the transfer case in 4x4. for a tacoma to do this, they would be limited to only 15 mph. which, would be good if you were towing someone out of a ditch or something, but not for point to point driving.
If the weather is bad, why can't a toy be put in 4 wheel drive also??? Kind of a mute point don't you think. For you tire size of the 225/15, they are only on the 2 wheel drive 4 cyl lowest in models. Otherwise move up from there. Drive on any Toy lot and let me know if you can find a 4x4 with 225/70/r15 tires. When I went to the Ford website it said their standard tire is also 225/70/r15, but I realize this would only be on the regular cab 2 wheel drive models. Also the weights were 5450 for Ford and 5100 for Toyota, not exactly greater than 500lbs. Also, both are rated to tow 5000lbs. I can engage my locker and go as fast as like, it is called a simple modification. You forget over time the clutchs wear out on an LSD also.
you'll see that standard tires on the toyota tacoma 4x4 (all variations)are 225/75/15. there are only two sizes for 4x4's. and to get the 265/70/16's, you have to pay for one of them $3500 packages.
regarding my comment on winter driving, yes the tacoma can be put in 4x4 in the snow. but it will still be using an open differential, while my LSD will be locked up along with my front wheels engaged. common sense tells me that this is the better setup when driving on snow or most 4x4 situations. more traction since the rear will be locking in when needed. toyota says max speed with locker engaged is 15 mph. with that locked in driving in snowy highway conditions, you'd be getting run over by most other 4x4 vehicles.
also, your tow ratings are incorrect. the Ford SOHC (new for '01 in Ranger) is rated to tow 5600lbs. which, is 600lbs more than tacoma. could this be because of Ranger's larger rear diff and heavier duty components? hmmm.
you may be able to mod your toy to go faster than 15 mph when locked in. but i can mod my ranger as well if you want to go there.
clutches do wear out on lsd's. but so do timing belts on engines which do not use timing chains. you and i know its not likely for clutches to wear out in a lsd when taken care of as recommended by factory specs. fluids changed at intervals will prolong life of these parts.
again, i appreciate your research, but i think you need to look more closely to what you're researching before you post. like i told pluto, i will catch incorrect numbers most of the time.
one last thing, the GVWR on the FX4 pkg, is over 6000lbs. this, straight out of the '02 Ranger brochure. check it out if you still doubt. they're free at your local Ford dealer.
here's a page if you want to compare with what im saying and what carpoint says (Pluto, please acknowledge- these are the facts). again, the standard Ranger 4x4 tire is the 245/75/16. imagine, not having to pay for a $3500 pkg just to get larger tires.
i do have to give toyota some credit, their payloads aren't as wimpy as other limitations the truck has. although if you get a V6 Tacoma 4x4, its payload is still less than a Ranger 4x4's payload (as a V6 is standard in every Ranger 4x4).
I've said before, you are obsessed with scrutinizing specs in brochures and calling us to the carpet whenever you find some "fault" with the Tacoma.
While you obsess about specs, most other four-wheelers, professional automotive reviewers and myself obsess about performance. I couldn't care less if your Ranger's rear end is .4" larger, or if you have vacuum pulse locking hubs, or a LSD. Why don't I care? Because everyone knows the Tacoma TRD has been rated and is regarded as the most capable 4x4 truck! It has EASILY beat the Ranger in every off-road comparison test!
When you go to a 4-wheeling meet, and the Tacoma guys leave you in the dust, like what has happened in ALL the reviews, what are you going to say? "Yeah, your truck got up that hill and mine didn't, BUT at least my rear end is .4" bigger and I have LSD!"
Quit playing semantics with me on these spec comparisons and tire errors. How can one possibly have an intelligent conversation with you on specs when you don't know the difference between a locker and an LSD? Or that P265 tires are 31" tires? Or what unsprung weight is?
While you look at your dozens of brochures under a microscope and continue fretting over which truck has what, I'll be content knowing I have what has been proven time and again to be the best performing off-road truck money can buy.
By the way, I don't read, speak or write "Mexican." Spanish, yes. What other languages do you read, speak or write? It's evident you have not even come close to perfecting English yet...
Why don't we end this stupid debate once and for all?
Since you have proven to be ever-so-capable finding every bit of information and link in the known universe available on Tacomas and Rangers, why haven't you posted the most important one of all: THE ONE THAT SAYS THE RANGER BEAT THE TACOMA OFF-ROADING????!!!!
after all, this is tacoma vs. ranger, right? that means lets look at what each truck has. after all, a truck is only worth what it is made of. and as ive pointed out, the Ranger has a long string of more heavier duty parts than does the Tacoma, as well as being more capable of doing work duties.
what, do you not believe in getting your facts straight before you post info? (obviously the answer to that question is no) if you ever took debate in high school or college, you know that you MUST have a very reliable source to scrutinize the other guy. and with you, trust me, that is totally not hard to do. why do you think they publish this information in brochures and websites? so people like me can "call" you guys on each and every mistake. to let you know our Rangers have options and capabilities that you cannot get on any Tacoma. basically to say you're very naive.
last time i checked, in Mexico, the language is spanish. whats the difference? mexican-spanish. American-English. ill forgive you for the degrading comments and negative thoughts, but as others have pointed out, it is common thread for you to have this attitude.
as far as getting up a hill, i have numerously invited you to come challenge myself, along with two other ZR2 equipped GM trucks. sounds like we have equivalent tires, at least in your world of tire knowledge. lets get it on.
on how you live your life? do you ACTUALLY believe everything you read in a magazine? magazines are all you got dude. its all you've ever had. magazines are a huge source for advertising equity. ever read a motorcycle magazine where a honda didn't win in most shootouts/comparisons? (for example-the Kawasaki ZX6R just won AMA supersort and World supersport titles, not the Honda CBR 600F4i, which mags said is the best bike for street and track. the ZX6R also surpassed the Honda CBR 600 in sales last year in Europe as well) how many honda ads are in that magazine, as compared to other manufacturers? a lot more. if you do not think that advertising dollars have anything to do with who that magazine says wins their shootouts, you are more naive than i thought. toyota truck ads are all over the 4x4 mags. how many ranger ads do you see? and half the time, those mags aren't comparing apples to apples. they'll take a TRD (cuz they're all over the place now, once rare but not anymore), and pit it against a base Ranger with no options, such as the LSD, or the off-road package. to really see how these trucks perform against each other, one must take them out in the real world of trail blazin', jumping, climbing, etc. once again, my invitation to iowa is open. just jump on I-35 North, and drive. i have nothing personal against you dude, i just find it amusing that you will never admit you're wrong. i at least, will do that.
I know if it exists, YOU'RE the man who can find it! Good luck.
You're right about the magazines, and all the fourwheeling meets, and the thousands of fourwheeling folks out there. It's all a big conspiracy against you, Tblunder. Our diabolical plot is to achieve world domination by deceiving and brainwashing you into believing the Ranger isn't as good as the Tacoma.
Of course, Tblunder, I could always accuse the sources of your links as being biased as well.
Hey, guess what? If my truck's rear-end is smaller (by .4") than yours, that probably means my truck has less unsprung weight!!! Did that fact elude you while you had your head buried in your brochures?
If you knew anything about Mexico, you would be aware of the fact that at least 100 indian dialects are spoken as well as Spanish. Please name me 5 of these dialects, since you now are a linguistics expert. *snicker*
My proposal: You come down to Tlaxcala and we go fourwheeling. If you can't, well, I'll just settle for that link I requested.
i think ive said all i need to say- my points are well laid out and are easy to read and understand, more than i can say about yours (you haven't provided any). its clear that you are waving the white flag, yet again.
but ill say it again. that link you're looking for will definitely not be found in a magazine or the net. and the reasons for that ive already explained- its called money. HOWEVER!!, we can make our own little shootout. it would be a good one. ZR2 vs. Ranger off-road vs. TRD 4x4. you know the directions.
as far as my mexican knowledge, all i know is that is why we have so much meth and other drugs in Iowa as well as our country as a whole- because of the mexicans. as far as wanting to learn anything else about the dirty filthy country, no thanks. however, do you know what du flickst means?
America has a drug problem because Americans demand drugs, and that's the root cause of the problem. Drug smugglers and producers wouldn't even be in business if that wasn't the case. And even if all Mexicans were stopped smuggling drugs, somebody else would take their place (duh, other people smuggle too - ever heard of Colombia, Cuba, Canada, etc?).
You don't know your drugs. The DEA says 90% of the meth in the US is being produced in only a handful of clandestine drug labs in unknown locations in California. How is that the fault of Mexicans?
Good night, Tblunder. Don't lose too much sleep knowing my rear axle may have less unsprung weight than yours...
I know people who have Rangers. I know people who drive Tacos. I know a racist, bigoted remark when I see one! As an Anglo male, it embarrasses me to think that "educated" people in this country still make the close-minded generalizations about race/nationionality you spewed forth in post 2525.
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid; They are made stupid by education." BERTRAND RUSSELL (or a lack thereof)
re: which truck is better-They are both solid vehicles. My pref would be the Toyota because it I believe it would fit my outdoor life style better.
interesting note: two weekends ago we went over Elephant Hill In Canyonlands UT. We had a '00 Jeep TJ, a '96 Tacoma, and our '01 Pathfinder and didn't see on Ranger in the backcountry. That doesn't mean they weren't there (cspounser definately could have been), we just didn't see any.
HP wars are meaningless. I've got 250 in the Pathy, but does that make me faster, probably, but not always.
Too bad you didn't get the chance to read Tblunder's posts that were deleted. You know, the usual strong-worded anti-Japanese garbage and that Tacomas and its owners are basically "excretement."
I think Tblunder is out swimming in that famous river in Egypt...
Tacoma is built in California. I know some people would rather not claim California but hey, lots of great scenery and interesting people.
But seriously, when I bought my 97 Tacoma I researched and talked to owners of both trucks. I really wanted the most reliable and most capable off-road truck. Tacoma came out way on top and I have yet to be disappointed. Just topped 5 years and 68,500 miles of ownership and this truck has yet to disappoint. If anything, I get more impressed with each year and the more I take it off-road. (I don't mean a dirt road in Iowa).
Got 60K out of the tires - still on the same battery and brakes. Just got the timing belt changed for $200 at the 60K service. Also I love the V6 - always get 19-22 mpg unless crawling on a trail - then 18-19mpg. Going over Vail pass with 32" tires I am still more likely to pass then be passed. Just my .02.
P.S. the locker was an option on mine but I didn't get it. - haven't really needed it yet.
read Bill O'Reilly's book, "the factor". i rest my case. his book is based on hardcore facts. those other countries you noted do not border USA 'cept for Canada, in which case my comment on mexico goes towards that country too, these two countries smuggle a high percentage of drugs in to ours. its not surprising however that you claim to know all about drugs (like you do everything) since you live down in little mexico.
Also, i never said you were "excretment", however, if you feel that way, i would understand why. id feel like crap as well if i knew i paid nearly $3500 more than i should have for my truck.
bgritz, i'd also be happy to challenge you pink slips for a little off-road excursion in your highly potential station wagon, or pathfinder. id take the engine out, and save it for my frontier ill get next year.
your comment on Ranger's assembly is very inaccurate. i have a 2001, it was built in Minnesota. has a sticker right on the rear window stating so. i dont know where you got your information, but you need to take a look here to see the facts on rangers assembly point.
"bgritz, i'd also be happy to challenge you pink slips for a little off-road excursion in your highly potential station wagon, or pathfinder. id take the engine out, and save it for my frontier ill get next year."
id and ill-They speak to Freud & ailments, not yourself.
Did you not comprehend my post, I stated that both vehicles were solid. My choice would be a matter of personal preference.
Challenging for slips is juvenile. I'm totally comfortable with what I purchased and for the reasons why. Personal attacks are generally tossed about by those who fear, or have no/limited knowledge of the subjects they are discussing.
Yeah I've got an SUV, Station Wagon whatever you want to call it. It has 16" rims 31.5" tires, a 2" lift, a LSD, and 4-low. It cost me more than a Ranger and rides softer but it tows the same, holds more people comfortably, (especially in inclement weather) smokes up mountain passes with a full load, is whisper quiet at highway speeds, doesn't rattle, and still manages to handle the majority of 4x4 trails you would ever want to head out on.
FYI, a large percentage of drug smugglers are US citizens, especially in the border areas. You're pretty naive to think that if drugs are coming from Canada and Mexico, only Canadians and Mexicans are doing the smuggling...
I liked your comments on "american english" and "mexican spanish." What's that? Massachusettes, Connecticut, Chatanooga, Sioux, the Dakotas, Cheyenne, Coeur D'alene, Snohomish, and Whatcom, among many others, are states, cities and counties which are Indian words. Quite a few places in the states with French and Spanish names, too, like Pierre, Baton Rouge, Colorado, Los Angeles, etc. Chepultepec, Chetumal, Tlaxcala, etc. are places in Mexico with no Spanish origins. Do you speak "Indian English," or "Spanish English," or "French English?"
I don't claim to know everything. It's just that I know a lot more about every subject you bring up, that's all.
Read books, huh? Maybe you need to try reading some English composition and grammar books.
Just wanted to post info on Toyota Tacoma's mfg. @ NUMMI.
In an ongoing effort to localize its supplier base, NUMMI created the North American Content Increase Program (NACI) in 1989. The purpose of this program is to identify and develop local suppliers. Since the program was established, the domestic content of NUMMI vehicles has increased from approximately 55% in its first models to over 75% for its 1995 models.
NUMMI's philosophy of working closely with suppliers has extended to its indirect suppliers as well. NUMMI's Indirect Purchasing includes general administrative services, general stores, bulk material and construction services.
Regardless of where the parts come from, Japan, U.S., Canda, Mexico et al. It all comes down to quality of parts and assembly.
Remember all your talk about the Alcoa rims on Rangers? The company's full name is Alcoa Fujikara. You probably didn't know that.
I could be wrong, but that hardly sounds like an American company. And I know for a fact Alcoa Fujikara has plants in Mexico.
Also, Arneses and Irving Automotive are plants in Mexico that do nothing but assemble wire harnesses, seat beat assemblies, upholstery, etc. for - you guessed it - Ford.
1. Nice Grill on that Tacoma! 2. My experience with working on imports was a painful lesson in patience, and futility. 3. First On Race Day. 4. "The difference of 20 hp betweeen a stock Ranger and stock Taco is EASILY overcome by about $150 worth of modifications (airbox, good non-papery airfilter which you should have anyway and maybe a normal muffler)."
So if you have 20 PEAK HP difference, and lower PEAK RPM's in the Ranger, in addition to more cubic inches, which do you think would be more likely to respond to the same modifications? Maybe the 3.4l can beat the 4.0l with modifications, but what if you do the modifications to BOTH?
And next you say that a charged V6 will beat any future V8 in a Ranger? Are you even sure that is true OR even a fair comparison?
AT LEAST you can get a V6 with REGULAR cab in a Ranger.
The impression I got from all the talk about how Toyota is more expensive is that Ranger owners are so tight on money they can't afford anything but the cheapest most mass production car. If you make mods to the Ranger, great.
My experience of working on domestics is a lesson in pain and futility. I'd like to kill whoever designed the 4.3L S10 engine. If I wrote software like that at work, I'd be out of the job.
Grill looks funky, but still a whole lot better than the whole Ranger body. I've said once that to me it looks like an oversized hotdog, and I'll stand by that.
When Ranger gets a V8, it'll cost $2K more, at least. What would the arguement then be? "Yeah, well, it costs the same/1K more, but I got a V8! I get 13 miles a gallon and it's sucking the money out of me (not to mention the higher insurance costs), but it's a V8! You can't go wrong with a V8!"? While we are at this, why would you need a V8 on a Ranger? To wear out the rest of the truck faster by pulling more weight? Truck is not a race car, V8 doesnt belong in a compact.
At least, I agree that it's bad that you can't get a V6 in a RegCab. I'd like that very much.
As for your bestseller list.....why didnt you post the statistics which cars were bestselling during WW2? They would have gone right along with the numbers you produced. Ford has been made in US for many years, and foreign carmakers have started penetrating the US markets only a short time ago (relatively speaking). It's quite easy to understand why not many people would buy cars from some Asian companies noone in US knew about, when you had the "Grade A, Made in USA" right there in Detroit. Ford has managed to grab hold of the car monopoly during the years when it was enjoying little competition from anyone else, and do you expect a Kia to suddenly become a bestseller? Probably not.
The Asian manufacturers have been proving superiority of their products for as long as they have been in the US markets. Their cars got better gas milage, their electronics were better.
Eventually Ford will lose it's monopoly....all they need is few more fiascos like Firestone, and given the recall rate (it's been what? 5 recalls on the bestselling Escape?) it's not far off into the future. It seems like a lot of people are willing to pay a little extra so they can get the better product.
when tacoma owners speak, they speak with nothing to back their claims up. however, when a ranger owner talks, they have the facts to back everything up. number one on the list is this pluto guy. he is the most defensive person ive ever interacted with, and he fails to heed ANY challenge i present to him- be it personal on the truck side, or corporate and talking about comparing apples to apples. he also refuses to accept or acknowledge the facts ive already posted (that goes for all you tacoma owners). ive presented everything that needs to be presented regarding ranger superiority (specifications related to each truck). i challenge you tacoma owners to show me some advantages the tacoma has over the ranger. lets see how good of a researcher you can be when challenged. i know what they are, lets just see if you have the brains to find them yourselves. i have rested my case. and you tacoma owners, i know have a feeling in the back of your minds that say: "tblunders right, that ranger was a better buy". we (us ranger guys) all know this feeling is present with you tacoma owners, it is easily heard thru your defensive writing and constant contradictions and erroneous comments.
tell me this pluto- how many vehicles does Ford have in the top ten saleswise? in case you're too scared to click on the link (provided by a Ford or ranger owner), it is five vehicles. how many toyotas? ONE. and its not a tacoma. hurry up and think up some nonsense to post describing how your toyota tacoma is still the most liked and best compact truck, and that everyone wants one.
BUT OHHHHHH, PEOPLE LIKE THE TACOMA SO MUCH BETTER. IVE GOT ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU (pluto), WHEN THE TACOMA TAKES OVER THE SALES LEAD IN COMPACT TRUCKS, I WILL AGAIN BUY YOU A NEW TACOMA. THAT MAY BE TWO ID HAVE BOUGHT YOU. THEN, BY YEAR FOUR OF THEIR TENURE, YOU'D STILL BE WORTH, WHAT'D YOU SAY EARLIER? $19000 A PIECE? BUD...YOU'RE DREAMIN.
when you see that sedan coming right at you at the stoplights tomorrow, preparing to get ready for the impact of a broadside in a tacoma is one thing id never want to do- you'll be doing it. at least in a ranger, i would have some hope in knowing the doors are made of steel. not pepsi tin.
the escape, in all its UN-glory, has just broke a record for sales of an suv in the compact class (more sold than Rav4 poj). i guess all these people you're expecting to switch brands are gonna be on the next ship from japan, eh? and one more thing, the escape was like 45% sold from pre-sells from the dealers before any were even shipped out.
new V8 ranger will be a midsize ('03), like a dakota sized truck. only a smidge smaller. but no, chrysler doesn't sell many V8 dakotas and durangos do they? and you probably have documentation that ford hasn't sold one explorer or mountaineer with a 4.6 (not 4.8 as you stated) or 5.0 V8, dont you? you obviously speak for yourself when you say that the compact class wouldn't succeed with a V8 option, (and its probably because you know toyota will never offer it in their compacts). you know that just isn't true.
another thing, are you saying that toyota and datsun weren't around in the 50's and 60's, when you claim that ford grabbed the monopoly of auto building? i think their nameplates go back that far. and last time i checked, gm had the monopoly, if you want to call it that. its more like oligopoly my friend. stop trying to make excuses for toyota not selling in the USA. its hard fact- people go buy vehicles. more of them buy fords than toyotas. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN. ACCEPT IT!
"i challenge you tacoma owners to show me some advantages the tacoma has over the ranger"
-Aside from some immediate things that popped in my head like better ground clearance, longer factory warranty, braking distance, etc. I decided to look up some recall information. since 1996, there have been 19 recalls on the Ranger. in this same span, there have been only 2 tacoma recalls.
I am a proud owner of a 2000 Tacoma v-6 4x4 which has given me 23,000 fun and trouble free miles. First question, which grade of gas(regular, mid, or preminum) should I be running in my truck. I have been running mid grade. Second question, are there any air filters, such as K&N filters that can be put onto the v-6 tacoma. I have yet to find anything. Any feedback would help. By the way ranger owners, I had to pull a v-6 4x4 Ranger out of a ditch after I just went through the thing. Kind of funny, considering the Tacoma could go through the same slop towing a truck that couldn't make it through on it's own.
I think non-charged Taco runs on regular gas, and you need premium for the charged one As far as air filters go, there's a lot of debate in K&N vs. Amsoil, but I'm personally going with Amsoil. You can get it ($35) from www.ultimateoff-road.com, the owner is a good guy.
It's like I've been saying: there are people who arent afraid to pay extra buck for better product. THere are cars that are higher up in the class than others. They are built better and they run better. Just because Audi is not on the bestsellers list at carpoint, doesnt mean people arent buying them. It's just that, you know, there arent many people who are willing to spend $40K on a car when they can get something close to Audi for $20K or $30K. It's the way things are: some people buy what everyone else is buying, and some don't. Ranger has become a mass production car, everybody's got one, just like Honda Civic. When you go mass production, there are certain compromises to be made, quality wise (so that the price can be driven down). People will continue to buy Rangers because they are so cheap, and Ford will continue to make crappy cars, because when one breaks down, there's a crap load of parts available for repairs. Tell me this, please: why is it that I see so many Eclipses on the road today? They are rated at 200hp, selling for av. of 20K base price, whereas you have a Mustang with a V6 rated at 190hp selling for 17K base price? According to your arguements, Eclipse buyers are idiots because they overpaid 3K for a car. What is wrong with this picture?
LOL. Ya'll are still going at this? Man back b4 I even knew I was getting a Tacoma this was a heated debate. I used to be all for the US made vehicles guys. Then I decided to get a Tacoma simply because of looks and b/c they were simply the popular vehicle. After about a month I realized that I prolly will never own a vehicle that isn't a Toyota. And guys, after reading some of the unbiased comparisons on compact trucks, I seriously wonder how you Ford guys can still keep your jaws flapping. I mean come on! The taco won the Ultimate 4x4 contest in Fourwheeler mag. Only it beat some vehicles I had never heard of like the hummer -- what is that??? LOL. After seeing obvious off-road dominance skeptics might look to on road performance. Thats the way most people use their vehicle anyway, right? And there the tacoma continues to lead everybody in reliability, as well. Now I can't list any page numbers from magazines, but guys this stuff is soooo obvious. Sure the Ranger might win certain little things -- but a Kia beats a mercedes in certain areas. The point is what vehicle, year in and year out, lasts longer, runs better, performs better, and keeps more consumers satisfied. With all the honesty in the world, I cannot see how even an unbiased person, who knows the least bit about trucks, could give the Ranger, S10, Sonoma, or Frontier so much as snowball's chance in hell of holding a candle to the Tacoma.
The point is what vehicle, year in and year out, lasts longer, runs better, performs better, and keeps more consumers satisfied.
Answer:
Ford Ranger. The Ranger has withstood the tests of time as there more old Rangers out there than old Tacoma's. The Ranger performs better for more drivers than the Tacoma.. 4.0L engine gives some edge in the pure HP world, but more importantly the Ranger has better on-road manners than the Tacoma.. If you compare 4x2 models, the Ranger looks even better with larger interior and larger cargo area.
The Ford Ranger also keeps more customers satisfied..
General Motors had the highest loyalty rate among manufacturers at 65 percent. Ford Motor Co. was second at 63 percent and Toyota Motor Sales (including Lexus) was third at 51. Polk defines loyalty as when someone purchases a replacement or a second vehicle built by the same manufacturer.
...
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The Ford division has earned the highest brand loyalty rating five straight years from Polk, and J.D. Power's Healey says Ford has a "high retention rate and is adding a lot of outsiders," the best of both worlds.
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So I would suspect that Ford keeps more Ranger owners satisfied than Toyota does with the Tacoma.
I think you're taking those quotes a bit out of context. The point of the article seemed to be that people are far less brand loyal than they used to be. And for those who are brand loyal, 33 percent are the full size truck buyers. Furthermore, GM and Ford have about 3 times more brand names than does toyota. I would think that would figure in to the statistics somewhat as well. It's an interesting article, I just don't think you can really use it to draw the conclusion that ranger owners are more satisfied than tacoma owners.
I wasn't able to find any data that pertained only to trucks. However, saddaddy makes claims and presented no data to back them up..
I did some looking and the data I find seems to dispute his claims, so I present it.. I also posted the link so everyone could easily see the whole story.
Also, Ford is a brand name.. Where as GM is not, (because GM includes chevy, etc..). This is why on one place the article says GM has the highest retension rate, and in the other part of the article they state that Ford has the highest retension rate.
Show me data that indicates that more Tacoma owners are satisfied than Ranger owners? Show me data that indicates that the Tacoma lasts longer than the Ranger.. Show me data that indicates the Tacoma runs better and performs better..
Very well said, and accurate. Tblunder, when are you going to be a MAN and admit the Taco eats your Ranger for breakfast?
What do sales volumes have to do with who makes the best truck? Does McDonald's make the best burgers because they sell the most? NOOOPE. I suppose you're going to tell me a Miata is better than a BMW 3 series convertible because more Miatas are sold. What an impressive argument!
So Ford has a higher loyalty rating than Toyota? Really? Funny, in the time it takes me to go through 2 Toyotas, my Ford fan neighbors go through 5 Fords. Maybe Toyotas just don't need to be replaced as often...and the Ford guys never learn to buy something else...so the figures are skewed...
Recalls? The one I like best is on my work's Ford Expeditions. The lugnuts and rim holes aren't beveled, they're completely flat. The lug nuts loosen, come off, and then you lose the wheel! Kind of unnerving looking at your rig and noticing your lugnuts are unscrewed or missing (this has happened six times at our office). Ford Explorers have a roll-over problem. Oh, and thousands of Explorers leaving the factory with slashed tires? Gotta love that Ford quality... It's a miracle the Ranger ONLY had 19 recalls.
To my knowledge, my Tacoma has had one recall. They had to send me an updated owner's manual. That's it.
Yeah, that extra grand or two I spent on my Tacoma, the proven off-road king and model of reliability, was such a waste.
Tblunder, still waiting for that link - you know, where the Ranger beats the Tacoma offroading? Just wanted to make sure you didn't forget.
Show me the data that indicates Toyota's don't need to be replaced as often. Your opinions are valid as no one can dispute an opinion, but that doesn't mean what you claim is a fact..
Eagle63 brought up valid points on why Fords loyalty might be higher than Toyota (as the article I referenced also pointed out). It said nothing about Toyota's needing to be replaced less often.
It is ok to base opinions on personal experiences. You have good experiences with Toyota. I've have good experiences with Ford. How many Toyota's have you or your family owned that reached over 150k problem free miles?
scorp-->Your impression that Rangers owners are just tight with money is an assumption. And when you [non-permissible content removed]-U-ME, you make an.. well you get the idea. The point on money, at least from my angle, is why spend more cash for the same thing you can get in the Ranger? "Has a reputation for reliability, but value in question due to high asking prices." Edmunds.com on Tacoma. The point on the HP competition was that if you take a stock 4.0l and a stock 3.4l, Which has the highest peak output (that also occurs lower in the RPM band). Now you can modify the Toyota engine easily to match the 4.0l's output. But is it fair to now 'race' a modified 3.4l vs. a stock 4.0l? The only thing I see going for the 3.4l is the supercharger, available with factory warranty.
I can change my oil twice in the time it takes to change any v6 Tacoma. The only thing hard to do on my vehicle is change 4 of my 8 spark plugs (on 2.3l I-4). The intake side takes a lot of ratchet elbows and extensions, and less than a half hour to do. Other than that the engine bay is big enough for a 390 big block.
When the Ranger get's a V8 you have NO IDEA of how much it will cost. If it's a 4.6l 2valve borrowed from the F Series or Mustang line, you can bet for decent gas milage. Any F-Series is well over 4000 pounds. A Supercab, 4dr, 4WD 4.0L Ranger maxes at 3584. The whole point of receiving a V8 is for towing potential (and to get that damned con that every review seems to include). If you had a 2500 pound race car and a 1500 pound trailer, and several tool boxes, You would be crazy to attempt a trip towing with a v6.
You asked why I didn't include 1940 era sale statistics? Would talking about Chryslers, Studebakers, and Packards help here? What would be more revelant than CURRENT YEAR statistics? The economy is self driven, by consumer demand. Sales Figures reflect CONSUMER DEMAND. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy what they do, people buy the Ranger because it is known as reliable and durable, and offers more standard options. Tacoma does a great job of offering much of the same (except the standardized options), but it is known for reliability and dependability. Sales figures reflect that, but not to the degree of the Ford Ranger.
It's the age old import vs. domestic debate. It's been around since the U.S. taught Japan how to make cars. Japan improved upon that and do produce great products. However I think they have reached their peak in efficiency and reproductivity of quality. Especially with their economy as lame as it is now. Ford produces the best trucks in America, and arguably the best in the world. How a quantitative analysis of what is best would be hard to achieve, so this debate continues without end.
Finally you mentioned the Escape had 5 recalls. I guess that didn't stop it from knocking Toyota Rav4 off it's pedestal in the first year of it's production?
Ford is taking some tough lumps right now, and the American media needed something to cover. Right now they are busy with Anthrax and Afghanistan. Recalls are very broad based, and may not even warrant anything more than a simple inspection. I'm glad every Toyota owner thinks their truck is perfect, because of no recalls on the latest models. I hope that's not just wishful thinking, but for the sake of you and your family. I feel safe for any recall information Ford puts out, because they found a problem and have a fix for it.
My father recently got a TSB or Recall from Ford on his '90 F-150. Seems the switch that changes fuel flow from one tank to the other could malfunction resulting in the return fuel line dumping fuel in to the tank not in use. My father never experienced the problem in his 11 years of ownership, but Ford isolated the problem and tracked him down and sent him a letter, and information on the free inspection or replacement.
Comments
No comment on safety. Tried doing a little research here at Edmunds but a lot of the information was listed as "not tested," so that's inconclusive.
I've heard people say their Rangers leak too. Big deal. Anything will leak if you're dumb enough to drive it through a lake. Amazing that in the 13 years or so I've been driving Toyota trucks on flooded streets in Mexico I've never had leaking. Maybe in YOUR pathetic world, Toyotas leak like sivs, but not in mine.
You seem obsessed with scrutinizing specs in brochures and then ranting here everytime you see some "fault" with the Tacoma. Here's the big picture for you:
Tacoma has easily whupped the Ranger in every off-road comparison test (despite its open rear diff);
Tacoma is still the only truck to offer a rear locker, an absolute necessity among serious offroaders;
Only Tacoma has an available 265 HP turbocharger with a 5/60K mile warranty (kinda blows your 210 HP Ranger out of the water, huh?);
Tacoma's 5/60K mile warranty is better than Ford's weak 3/36K mile warranty;
In my opinion and experience, Toyotas are more reliable than your Fix Or Repair Daily FORD;
In the REAL WORLD (not your world or NADA's or KBB's) Tacoma has a much better resale value, which makes up for the higher initial purchase price.
Maybe you would like to comment on these facts, instead of focusing on things like 8.8" vs. 8.4" rearends, or 16" vs. 15" wheels, ETC.
Does your silence on my unsprung weight question mean you don't know a thing about it? Why didn't you answer it? Somebody with your "expertise" could explain unsprung weight in 2 minutes.
Again, please let me know when the professionals conclude the Ranger is more capable off-road than a Tacoma in their comparison tests...
Yawn...
If you're looking for the off-road king of 4x4 trucks, and are willing to pay a little more for it, the Tacoma is the ONLY choice.
Since the Ranger has a similar 4wd system, I'm wondering if any of you ranger owners have experienced anything like this. I'm sure the dealership will charge me and arm and a leg just to have it looked at, much less fixed. Thanks in advance!
Lsd has advantanges and cons as well the locker. It all depends on what you want and will utilize.
lsd the clutches need replaced, the locker is for low speed rock crawling, getting up steep slippery grades, so it has limited applications.
Except you can bypass that feature so it will engage at any speed in 2 or 4wheel drive.
Simple as cutting one wire on the ECU
Tblunder go to carreview.com and see which truck is rated higher by consumers. Go to consumer digest and see which truck has a higher reliability rating. People don't spend more money because they want to, it is because they want peace of mind. Rangers are good, but not as good.
Maybe so.
"BY FAR, he is more guilty of this than the rest of us combined."
Your opinion does not reflect mine, group consensus, or an unbiased perspective.
"Oh, that's right, you wouldn't do that because he's a fellow Ranger fan... Sorry, but you really blew it BIG TIME with that biased remark."
As far as derogatory comments, I am not here to judge. My comment is for all to read, and I surmise only those who reject it are guilty. Just say "I think you are wrong and here's why"... When you think someone is in the wrong, just say so. With each stone you cast, your "higher ground" will wither and fall. (I.E. Each "Maybe in YOUR pathetic world" or "you really blew it BIG TIME" you use, the less likely I'm ever going to be convinced of any facts you try to present.)
"It all goes back to that respect thing. You have to give it to receive it."
Ahh, but where to begin Poncherello?
Also to win a debate, doesn't the other guy have to concede?
For safety and crash statistics, don't try Edmunds (and quit there), goto http://www.nhtsa.gov/ncap/cars/2001Pkup.html. Note: Side crash ratings are Ranger 5 star rating vs. Tacoma 3 star rating. Frontal ratings are closer, but Ranger still is better. This is the government's official findings.
"If you want a good value on a good 4x4 truck, the Ranger is probably your best choice.
If you're looking for the off-road king of 4x4 trucks, and are willing to pay a little more for it, the Tacoma is the ONLY choice. "
I Agree! I do think the '02 FX4 may give Tacoma a run for it's off-road money, however.
And don't forget a detroit locker can be picked up for like $465, right? Powertrax sells a locker for under 300. That's about the cost of ABS for Tacoma's, another standard on Ranger.
On your data of long term reliability (warranties, etc), you might want to check out msn carpoint's Used Vehicle Reliability summary. Numbers of problems and costs to fix them are more on Ranger's side the older the vehicles get. Dozens of SAE master technicians can't be wrong.
Heck in my city I've personally driven 6 different rangers, ranging from '91-'98's, all with over 100k miles on them, two with over 200k miles on them, and only major repairs on them was a automatic transmission on my personal one. The other 5 were delivery trucks for Autozone where I used to work. All 6 are abused daily, even thought I treat mine much better now than when I was a teenager. Rangers may not have a locker or be the ultimate off-road vehicle. Ford Rangers are the toughest, most reliable trucks you can get, so why spend more for "even better" reliability. I'd buy a Tacoma if I planned on keeping it for 20 years, but I'm not that crazy. I don't fear change...
I'm like that guy who first started wearing pants, instead of bushes.
1. You thought your truck had a locker
2. You were wrong about the "less than 6" rear-end
on the Tacoma
3. Smgilles corrected your mistakes on GVWRs
4. You thought all Tacomas had P265 tires, and
they don't
I'm sure more of your errors exist, but frankly, I'm tired of going back and finding them all...
Besides, why do you continue an argument you're always on the losing end of?
You're the only one here waving the white flag. Since you are incapable of answering my unsprung weight question, I guess I will have to answer it for you.
What is unsprung weight? To answer that, we need to know what sprung weight is - that's the weight being supported by a car's suspension system (engine, body, frame, chassis, etc). The componets NOT being supported by the suspension (wheels, tires, axles, etc) are unsprung weight. Since componets that make up unsprung weight are not stationary, and move as the suspension does its job, it makes sense to have these componets as light as possible. Lighter means they have less effect on the platform to which they are attached, the chassis. And a solid, stable chassis that doesn't lose its composure under cornering, braking and bumpy conditions is what a sports car is all about.
Earlier you said your fender flares and swaybar prevent you from bottoming out your truck's suspension. Really? How is that? I'm hoping you can answer this question, because I sure can't!
Maybe instead of comparing "hardcore specs" (which you keep doing erroneously) you should try comparing our trucks' performance. Oh wait, you wouldn't want to do that. It's a well known and documented fact the Tacoma eats your Ranger for breakfast in that department...
I never said Ford was horrible. If you read my posts, you would know what I've really been saying is the Tacoma isn't total garbage, like Tblunder would like you to believe.
YOU were the one who didn't think toyota's had 265's on them. you still thought they put flotation 31's on them. thats a hardcore fact.
i was the one who informed YOU that the tacoma came with the smallest standard tires. the 225, and that they stopped putting 31x10.50 tires on them. thats a hardcore fact.
i said i would believe the rear end size of the tacoma being 8.4 with some facts. now i believe it, but NOTE that its still smaller than ford's 8.8 inch rear end. thats a hardcore fact.
the fender flares and sway bar comment i made was a sarcastic comment directed towards your bragging about them. every truck has these things and you act like they can make your truck sprout wings. just another grasp on your part.
about the locker, you may have one. but, when you're not using it, you have an open differential. which means you're one wheeling. i have the lsd which means its gonna kick in and be spinning any time when needed. not just when i push a button and am already stuck.
pluto, you are hilarious as you write your lies. all one needs to do is read back and find your NUMEROUS CONTRADICTIONS. everyone here who reads can spot them, but out of the kindness of their hearts, they will let them slide. i am a very blunt person. i will catch you every time. and frankly, its getting a little old to hear you make up stuff just to try to fight back a little. we all know who builds the most all-around capable truck and their sales numbers back that up a hundred percent.
did you not read your original post i reposted for you about your absurd tire knowledge? its there, but im sure you wont read it, cuz you can NEVER admit you're wrong.
-One thing to remember about LSD's that people often don't think about is their performance on snow/ice. When you're taking a corner on a slippery road with a LSD, especially in a pickup, if you touch the gas at all you can lock that diff up causing you to fishtail instantly. With an open diff this doesn't happen. Don't get me wrong, I like LSD's - I have one in my explorer - but they too have their limitations.
Basically Ford has a mini-truck crew cab.. They chose to based on the Explorer (Sport Trac) rather than the Ranger.. I've heard rumors that they are looking at doing a Ranger crew cab too, but to me that wouldn't make any sense to have 2 vehicles that are basically the same.. Maybe if they do the Ranger version, they'll put a bigger bed on it than the Sport trac.
eagle- regarding your lsd comments. i agree with you totally. but, when driving on slippery roads in which there is a chance of sliding out, i would assume one would have the transfer case in 4x4 mode. that would alleviate the chances to almost nill. compared to an open diff. (what tacoma has when not locked in), especially in the snow, the traction would be phenomenal with the transfer case in 4x4. for a tacoma to do this, they would be limited to only 15 mph. which, would be good if you were towing someone out of a ditch or something, but not for point to point driving.
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Toyota/Tacoma/2002.asp
you'll see that standard tires on the toyota tacoma 4x4 (all variations)are 225/75/15. there are only two sizes for 4x4's. and to get the 265/70/16's, you have to pay for one of them $3500 packages.
regarding my comment on winter driving, yes the tacoma can be put in 4x4 in the snow. but it will still be using an open differential, while my LSD will be locked up along with my front wheels engaged. common sense tells me that this is the better setup when driving on snow or most 4x4 situations. more traction since the rear will be locking in when needed. toyota says max speed with locker engaged is 15 mph. with that locked in driving in snowy highway conditions, you'd be getting run over by most other 4x4 vehicles.
also, your tow ratings are incorrect. the Ford SOHC (new for '01 in Ranger) is rated to tow 5600lbs. which, is 600lbs more than tacoma. could this be because of Ranger's larger rear diff and heavier duty components? hmmm.
you may be able to mod your toy to go faster than 15 mph when locked in. but i can mod my ranger as well if you want to go there.
clutches do wear out on lsd's. but so do timing belts on engines which do not use timing chains. you and i know its not likely for clutches to wear out in a lsd when taken care of as recommended by factory specs. fluids changed at intervals will prolong life of these parts.
again, i appreciate your research, but i think you need to look more closely to what you're researching before you post. like i told pluto, i will catch incorrect numbers most of the time.
one last thing, the GVWR on the FX4 pkg, is over 6000lbs. this, straight out of the '02 Ranger brochure. check it out if you still doubt. they're free at your local Ford dealer.
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Ford/Ranger/2002.asp
i do have to give toyota some credit, their payloads aren't as wimpy as other limitations the truck has. although if you get a V6 Tacoma 4x4, its payload is still less than a Ranger 4x4's payload (as a V6 is standard in every Ranger 4x4).
While you obsess about specs, most other four-wheelers, professional automotive reviewers and myself obsess about performance. I couldn't care less if your Ranger's rear end is .4" larger, or if you have vacuum pulse locking hubs, or a LSD. Why don't I care? Because everyone knows the Tacoma TRD has been rated and is regarded as the most capable 4x4 truck! It has EASILY beat the Ranger in every off-road comparison test!
When you go to a 4-wheeling meet, and the Tacoma guys leave you in the dust, like what has happened in ALL the reviews, what are you going to say? "Yeah, your truck got up that hill and mine didn't, BUT at least my rear end is .4" bigger and I have LSD!"
Quit playing semantics with me on these spec comparisons and tire errors. How can one possibly have an intelligent conversation with you on specs when you don't know the difference between a locker and an LSD? Or that P265 tires are 31" tires? Or what unsprung weight is?
While you look at your dozens of brochures under a microscope and continue fretting over which truck has what, I'll be content knowing I have what has been proven time and again to be the best performing off-road truck money can buy.
By the way, I don't read, speak or write "Mexican." Spanish, yes. What other languages do you read, speak or write? It's evident you have not even come close to perfecting English yet...
Since you have proven to be ever-so-capable finding every bit of information and link in the known universe available on Tacomas and Rangers, why haven't you posted the most important one of all: THE ONE THAT SAYS THE RANGER BEAT THE TACOMA OFF-ROADING????!!!!
I rest my case.
what, do you not believe in getting your facts straight before you post info? (obviously the answer to that question is no) if you ever took debate in high school or college, you know that you MUST have a very reliable source to scrutinize the other guy. and with you, trust me, that is totally not hard to do. why do you think they publish this information in brochures and websites? so people like me can "call" you guys on each and every mistake. to let you know our Rangers have options and capabilities that you cannot get on any Tacoma. basically to say you're very naive.
last time i checked, in Mexico, the language is spanish. whats the difference? mexican-spanish. American-English. ill forgive you for the degrading comments and negative thoughts, but as others have pointed out, it is common thread for you to have this attitude.
as far as getting up a hill, i have numerously invited you to come challenge myself, along with two other ZR2 equipped GM trucks. sounds like we have equivalent tires, at least in your world of tire knowledge. lets get it on.
I know if it exists, YOU'RE the man who can find it! Good luck.
You're right about the magazines, and all the fourwheeling meets, and the thousands of fourwheeling folks out there. It's all a big conspiracy against you, Tblunder. Our diabolical plot is to achieve world domination by deceiving and brainwashing you into believing the Ranger isn't as good as the Tacoma.
Of course, Tblunder, I could always accuse the sources of your links as being biased as well.
Hey, guess what? If my truck's rear-end is smaller (by .4") than yours, that probably means my truck has less unsprung weight!!! Did that fact elude you while you had your head buried in your brochures?
If you knew anything about Mexico, you would be aware of the fact that at least 100 indian dialects are spoken as well as Spanish. Please name me 5 of these dialects, since you now are a linguistics expert. *snicker*
My proposal: You come down to Tlaxcala and we go fourwheeling. If you can't, well, I'll just settle for that link I requested.
but ill say it again. that link you're looking for will definitely not be found in a magazine or the net. and the reasons for that ive already explained- its called money. HOWEVER!!, we can make our own little shootout. it would be a good one. ZR2 vs. Ranger off-road vs. TRD 4x4. you know the directions.
as far as my mexican knowledge, all i know is that is why we have so much meth and other drugs in Iowa as well as our country as a whole- because of the mexicans. as far as wanting to learn anything else about the dirty filthy country, no thanks. however, do you know what du flickst means?
You don't know your drugs. The DEA says 90% of the meth in the US is being produced in only a handful of clandestine drug labs in unknown locations in California. How is that the fault of Mexicans?
Good night, Tblunder. Don't lose too much sleep knowing my rear axle may have less unsprung weight than yours...
Hoydfudge, chuksar!
I know people who drive Tacos.
I know a racist, bigoted remark when I see one!
As an Anglo male, it embarrasses me to think that "educated" people in this country still make the close-minded generalizations about race/nationionality you spewed forth in post 2525.
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid; They are made stupid by education." BERTRAND RUSSELL
(or a lack thereof)
re: which truck is better-They are both solid vehicles. My pref would be the Toyota because it I believe it would fit my outdoor life style better.
interesting note: two weekends ago we went over Elephant Hill In Canyonlands UT. We had a '00 Jeep TJ, a '96 Tacoma, and our '01 Pathfinder and didn't see on Ranger in the backcountry. That doesn't mean they weren't there (cspounser definately could have been), we just didn't see any.
HP wars are meaningless. I've got 250 in the Pathy, but does that make me faster, probably, but not always.
I think Tblunder is out swimming in that famous river in Egypt...
But seriously, when I bought my 97 Tacoma I researched and talked to owners of both trucks. I really wanted the most reliable and most capable off-road truck. Tacoma came out way on top and I have yet to be disappointed. Just topped 5 years and 68,500 miles of ownership and this truck has yet to disappoint. If anything, I get more impressed with each year and the more I take it off-road.
(I don't mean a dirt road in Iowa).
Got 60K out of the tires - still on the same battery and brakes. Just got the timing belt changed for $200 at the 60K service. Also I love the V6 - always get 19-22 mpg unless crawling on a trail - then 18-19mpg. Going over Vail pass with 32" tires I am still more likely to pass then be passed. Just my .02.
P.S. the locker was an option on mine but I didn't get it. - haven't really needed it yet.
Also, i never said you were "excretment", however, if you feel that way, i would understand why. id feel like crap as well if i knew i paid nearly $3500 more than i should have for my truck.
bgritz, i'd also be happy to challenge you pink slips for a little off-road excursion in your highly potential station wagon, or pathfinder. id take the engine out, and save it for my frontier ill get next year.
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Specifications/Ford/Ranger/2002.asp
your Tacoma was maybe assembled in california, but its parts were MADE in japan.
id and ill-They speak to Freud & ailments, not yourself.
Did you not comprehend my post, I stated that both vehicles were solid. My choice would be a matter of personal preference.
Challenging for slips is juvenile. I'm totally comfortable with what I purchased and for the reasons why. Personal attacks are generally tossed about by those who fear, or have no/limited knowledge of the subjects they are discussing.
Yeah I've got an SUV, Station Wagon whatever you want to call it. It has 16" rims 31.5" tires, a 2" lift, a LSD, and 4-low. It cost me more than a Ranger and rides softer but it tows the same, holds more people comfortably, (especially in inclement weather) smokes up mountain passes with a full load, is whisper quiet at highway speeds, doesn't rattle, and still manages to handle the majority of 4x4 trails you would ever want to head out on.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bgritz
see pic #71
"id take the engine out, and save it for my frontier ill get next year."
Are you getting a Frontier? What about your highly esteemed Ranger?
FYI: my "station wagon" has a stronger HP/weight than either of the afore mentioned trucks. (17/HP)
"A small mind is the product of ignorance"
I liked your comments on "american english" and "mexican spanish." What's that? Massachusettes, Connecticut, Chatanooga, Sioux, the Dakotas, Cheyenne, Coeur D'alene, Snohomish, and Whatcom, among many others, are states, cities and counties which are Indian words. Quite a few places in the states with French and Spanish names, too, like Pierre, Baton Rouge, Colorado, Los Angeles, etc. Chepultepec, Chetumal, Tlaxcala, etc. are places in Mexico with no Spanish origins. Do you speak "Indian English," or "Spanish English," or "French English?"
I don't claim to know everything. It's just that I know a lot more about every subject you bring up, that's all.
Read books, huh? Maybe you need to try reading some English composition and grammar books.
Still waiting for that link...
In an ongoing effort to localize its supplier base, NUMMI created the North American Content Increase Program (NACI) in 1989. The purpose of this program is to identify and develop local suppliers. Since the program was established, the domestic content of NUMMI vehicles has increased from approximately 55% in its first models to over 75% for its 1995 models.
NUMMI's philosophy of working closely with suppliers has extended to its indirect suppliers as well. NUMMI's Indirect Purchasing includes general administrative services, general stores, bulk material and construction services.
Regardless of where the parts come from, Japan, U.S., Canda, Mexico et al. It all comes down to quality of parts and assembly.
I could be wrong, but that hardly sounds like an American company. And I know for a fact Alcoa Fujikara has plants in Mexico.
Also, Arneses and Irving Automotive are plants in Mexico that do nothing but assemble wire harnesses, seat beat assemblies, upholstery, etc. for - you guessed it - Ford.
2. My experience with working on imports was a painful lesson in patience, and futility.
3. First On Race Day.
4. "The difference of 20 hp betweeen a stock Ranger and stock Taco is EASILY overcome by about $150 worth of modifications (airbox, good non-papery airfilter which you should have anyway and maybe a normal muffler)."
So if you have 20 PEAK HP difference, and lower PEAK RPM's in the Ranger, in addition to more cubic inches, which do you think would be more likely to respond to the same modifications? Maybe the 3.4l can beat the 4.0l with modifications, but what if you do the modifications to BOTH?
And next you say that a charged V6 will beat any future V8 in a Ranger? Are you even sure that is true OR even a fair comparison?
AT LEAST you can get a V6 with REGULAR cab in a Ranger.
http://carpoint.msn.com/browse/win_4020502.asp
Ford,
Best Selling Full Size truck, 20 years straight.
Best selling SUV 11 years straight.
Best Selling Compact truck 15 years straight.
Unconfirmed, but best selling Compact SUV with it's new Escape(beating the RAV4).
Sorry to those who have had bad experiences. You can't make the most omlettes without breaking some eggs!
My experience of working on domestics is a lesson in pain and futility. I'd like to kill whoever designed the 4.3L S10 engine. If I wrote software like that at work, I'd be out of the job.
Grill looks funky, but still a whole lot better than the whole Ranger body. I've said once that to me it looks like an oversized hotdog, and I'll stand by that.
When Ranger gets a V8, it'll cost $2K more, at least. What would the arguement then be? "Yeah, well, it costs the same/1K more, but I got a V8! I get 13 miles a gallon and it's sucking the money out of me (not to mention the higher insurance costs), but it's a V8! You can't go wrong with a V8!"? While we are at this, why would you need a V8 on a Ranger? To wear out the rest of the truck faster by pulling more weight? Truck is not a race car, V8 doesnt belong in a compact.
At least, I agree that it's bad that you can't get a V6 in a RegCab. I'd like that very much.
As for your bestseller list.....why didnt you post the statistics which cars were bestselling during WW2? They would have gone right along with the numbers you produced. Ford has been made in US for many years, and foreign carmakers have started penetrating the US markets only a short time ago (relatively speaking). It's quite easy to understand why not many people would buy cars from some Asian companies noone in US knew about, when you had the "Grade A, Made in USA" right there in Detroit. Ford has managed to grab hold of the car monopoly during the years when it was enjoying little competition from anyone else, and do you expect a Kia to suddenly become a bestseller? Probably not.
The Asian manufacturers have been proving superiority of their products for as long as they have been in the US markets. Their cars got better gas milage, their electronics were better.
Eventually Ford will lose it's monopoly....all they need is few more fiascos like Firestone, and given the recall rate (it's been what? 5 recalls on the bestselling Escape?) it's not far off into the future. It seems like a lot of people are willing to pay a little extra so they can get the better product.
tell me this pluto- how many vehicles does Ford have in the top ten saleswise? in case you're too scared to click on the link (provided by a Ford or ranger owner), it is five vehicles. how many toyotas? ONE. and its not a tacoma. hurry up and think up some nonsense to post describing how your toyota tacoma is still the most liked and best compact truck, and that everyone wants one.
BUT OHHHHHH, PEOPLE LIKE THE TACOMA SO MUCH BETTER. IVE GOT ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU (pluto), WHEN THE TACOMA TAKES OVER THE SALES LEAD IN COMPACT TRUCKS, I WILL AGAIN BUY YOU A NEW TACOMA. THAT MAY BE TWO ID HAVE BOUGHT YOU. THEN, BY YEAR FOUR OF THEIR TENURE, YOU'D STILL BE WORTH, WHAT'D YOU SAY EARLIER? $19000 A PIECE? BUD...YOU'RE DREAMIN.
when you see that sedan coming right at you at the stoplights tomorrow, preparing to get ready for the impact of a broadside in a tacoma is one thing id never want to do- you'll be doing it. at least in a ranger, i would have some hope in knowing the doors are made of steel. not pepsi tin.
new V8 ranger will be a midsize ('03), like a dakota sized truck. only a smidge smaller. but no, chrysler doesn't sell many V8 dakotas and durangos do they? and you probably have documentation that ford hasn't sold one explorer or mountaineer with a 4.6 (not 4.8 as you stated) or 5.0 V8, dont you?
you obviously speak for yourself when you say that the compact class wouldn't succeed with a V8 option, (and its probably because you know toyota will never offer it in their compacts). you know that just isn't true.
another thing, are you saying that toyota and datsun weren't around in the 50's and 60's, when you claim that ford grabbed the monopoly of auto building? i think their nameplates go back that far. and last time i checked, gm had the monopoly, if you want to call it that. its more like oligopoly my friend. stop trying to make excuses for toyota not selling in the USA. its hard fact- people go buy vehicles. more of them buy fords than toyotas. IT HAS BEEN PROVEN. ACCEPT IT!
-Aside from some immediate things that popped in my head like better ground clearance, longer factory warranty, braking distance, etc. I decided to look up some recall information. since 1996, there have been 19 recalls on the Ranger. in this same span, there have been only 2 tacoma recalls.
As far as air filters go, there's a lot of debate in K&N vs. Amsoil, but I'm personally going with Amsoil. You can get it ($35) from www.ultimateoff-road.com, the owner is a good guy.
THere are cars that are higher up in the class than others. They are built better and they run better.
Just because Audi is not on the bestsellers list at carpoint, doesnt mean people arent buying them. It's just that, you know, there arent many people who are willing to spend $40K on a car when they can get something close to Audi for $20K or $30K.
It's the way things are: some people buy what everyone else is buying, and some don't. Ranger has become a mass production car, everybody's got one, just like Honda Civic. When you go mass production, there are certain compromises to be made, quality wise (so that the price can be driven down). People will continue to buy Rangers because they are so cheap, and Ford will continue to make crappy cars, because when one breaks down, there's a crap load of parts available for repairs.
Tell me this, please: why is it that I see so many Eclipses on the road today?
They are rated at 200hp, selling for av. of 20K base price, whereas you have a Mustang with a V6 rated at 190hp selling for 17K base price? According to your arguements, Eclipse buyers are idiots because they overpaid 3K for a car. What is wrong with this picture?
The point is what vehicle, year in and year out, lasts longer, runs better, performs better, and keeps more consumers satisfied.
Answer:
Ford Ranger. The Ranger has withstood the tests of time as there more old Rangers out there than old Tacoma's. The Ranger performs better for more drivers than the Tacoma.. 4.0L engine gives some edge in the pure HP world, but more importantly the Ranger has better on-road manners than the Tacoma.. If you compare 4x2 models, the Ranger looks even better with larger interior and larger cargo area.
The Ford Ranger also keeps more customers satisfied..
--
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwira25_20010425.htm quotes:
General Motors had the highest loyalty rate among manufacturers at 65 percent. Ford Motor Co. was second at 63 percent and Toyota Motor Sales (including Lexus) was third at 51. Polk defines loyalty as when someone purchases a replacement or a second vehicle built by the same manufacturer.
...
...
The Ford division has earned the highest brand loyalty rating five straight years from Polk, and J.D. Power's Healey says Ford has a "high retention rate and is adding a lot of outsiders," the best of both worlds.
---
So I would suspect that Ford keeps more Ranger owners satisfied than Toyota does with the Tacoma.
Furthermore, GM and Ford have about 3 times more brand names than does toyota. I would think that would figure in to the statistics somewhat as well.
It's an interesting article, I just don't think you can really use it to draw the conclusion that ranger owners are more satisfied than tacoma owners.
I did some looking and the data I find seems to dispute his claims, so I present it.. I also posted the link so everyone could easily see the whole story.
Also, Ford is a brand name.. Where as GM is not, (because GM includes chevy, etc..).
This is why on one place the article says GM has the highest retension rate, and in the other part of the article they state that Ford has the highest retension rate.
Show me data that indicates that more Tacoma owners are satisfied than Ranger owners?
Show me data that indicates that the Tacoma lasts longer than the Ranger..
Show me data that indicates the Tacoma runs better and performs better..
What do sales volumes have to do with who makes the best truck? Does McDonald's make the best burgers because they sell the most? NOOOPE. I suppose you're going to tell me a Miata is better than a BMW 3 series convertible because more Miatas are sold. What an impressive argument!
So Ford has a higher loyalty rating than Toyota? Really? Funny, in the time it takes me to go through 2 Toyotas, my Ford fan neighbors go through 5 Fords. Maybe Toyotas just don't need to be replaced as often...and the Ford guys never learn to buy something else...so the figures are skewed...
Recalls? The one I like best is on my work's Ford Expeditions. The lugnuts and rim holes aren't beveled, they're completely flat. The lug nuts loosen, come off, and then you lose the wheel! Kind of unnerving looking at your rig and noticing your lugnuts are unscrewed or missing (this has happened six times at our office). Ford Explorers have a roll-over problem. Oh, and thousands of Explorers leaving the factory with slashed tires? Gotta love that Ford quality... It's a miracle the Ranger ONLY had 19 recalls.
To my knowledge, my Tacoma has had one recall. They had to send me an updated owner's manual. That's it.
Yeah, that extra grand or two I spent on my Tacoma, the proven off-road king and model of reliability, was such a waste.
Tblunder, still waiting for that link - you know, where the Ranger beats the Tacoma offroading? Just wanted to make sure you didn't forget.
Your opinions are valid as no one can dispute an opinion, but that doesn't mean what you claim is a fact..
Eagle63 brought up valid points on why Fords loyalty might be higher than Toyota (as the article I referenced also pointed out). It said nothing about Toyota's needing to be replaced less often.
It is ok to base opinions on personal experiences. You have good experiences with Toyota. I've have good experiences with Ford. How many Toyota's have you or your family owned that reached over 150k problem free miles?
"Has a reputation for reliability, but value in question due to high asking prices." Edmunds.com on Tacoma.
The point on the HP competition was that if you take a stock 4.0l and a stock 3.4l, Which has the highest peak output (that also occurs lower in the RPM band). Now you can modify the Toyota engine easily to match the 4.0l's output. But is it fair to now 'race' a modified 3.4l vs. a stock 4.0l? The only thing I see going for the 3.4l is the supercharger, available with factory warranty.
I can change my oil twice in the time it takes to change any v6 Tacoma. The only thing hard to do on my vehicle is change 4 of my 8 spark plugs (on 2.3l I-4). The intake side takes a lot of ratchet elbows and extensions, and less than a half hour to do. Other than that the engine bay is big enough for a 390 big block.
When the Ranger get's a V8 you have NO IDEA of how much it will cost. If it's a 4.6l 2valve borrowed from the F Series or Mustang line, you can bet for decent gas milage. Any F-Series is well over 4000 pounds. A Supercab, 4dr, 4WD 4.0L Ranger maxes at 3584. The whole point of receiving a V8 is for towing potential (and to get that damned con that every review seems to include). If you had a 2500 pound race car and a 1500 pound trailer, and several tool boxes, You would be crazy to attempt a trip towing with a v6.
You asked why I didn't include 1940 era sale statistics? Would talking about Chryslers, Studebakers, and Packards help here? What would be more revelant than CURRENT YEAR statistics? The economy is self driven, by consumer demand. Sales Figures reflect CONSUMER DEMAND. Nobody is forcing consumers to buy what they do, people buy the Ranger because it is known as reliable and durable, and offers more standard options. Tacoma does a great job of offering much of the same (except the standardized options), but it is known for reliability and dependability. Sales figures reflect that, but not to the degree of the Ford Ranger.
It's the age old import vs. domestic debate. It's been around since the U.S. taught Japan how to make cars. Japan improved upon that and do produce great products. However I think they have reached their peak in efficiency and reproductivity of quality. Especially with their economy as lame as it is now. Ford produces the best trucks in America, and arguably the best in the world. How a quantitative analysis of what is best would be hard to achieve, so this debate continues without end.
Finally you mentioned the Escape had 5 recalls. I guess that didn't stop it from knocking Toyota Rav4 off it's pedestal in the first year of it's production?
Ford is taking some tough lumps right now, and the American media needed something to cover. Right now they are busy with Anthrax and Afghanistan. Recalls are very broad based, and may not even warrant anything more than a simple inspection. I'm glad every Toyota owner thinks their truck is perfect, because of no recalls on the latest models. I hope that's not just wishful thinking, but for the sake of you and your family. I feel safe for any recall information Ford puts out, because they found a problem and have a fix for it.
My father recently got a TSB or Recall from Ford on his '90 F-150. Seems the switch that changes fuel flow from one tank to the other could malfunction resulting in the return fuel line dumping fuel in to the tank not in use. My father never experienced the problem in his 11 years of ownership, but Ford isolated the problem and tracked him down and sent him a letter, and information on the free inspection or replacement.