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As for going to a dealership.....how about going there to verify your story? I might do that too....I got a Ford stealership on the way home.
So you can't explain why our work vehicles are screwed up? I can and did (rim holes and lugs fitting flush, not beveled and inside eachother). BTW, it's not just our work vehicles that have this problem, either. And you can't convince me it's not Ford's fault? Hey Einstein, whose is it, then?
I also know the cause of the Explorer's tire problems and mentioned it earlier. But who cares about the cause? Who else makes cars with slashed tires?
Your argument is you have to modify a stock Ranger to perform as well as a stock Tacoma. Who would pay the money for a brand new truck then tear it up with modifications that will definitely void the warranty (yeah, lockers and lift kits will do that, you know)?
I think you and Tblunder should go form a mutual admiration society. You know, it's easy to dismiss Tblunder simply because he's truly dumb and ignorant (hey, it's the truth, even though it hurts). But somebody with your intelligence, which is light years ahead of your little follower, should me making more intelligent statements and quit taking sides with Tblunder.
Do you see what I mean in that you pay a higher price for a better peace of mind? I personally wanted a locker, I wanted a supercharger. I got these things and they are covered for 60/60,000. I realize these are things that I wanted and may not pertain to others, but it appears to me that Tbunder did buy his Ranger for off-roading.
I hate to inform you Pluto, but there are a lot more things in Iowa than Pigs. You tell Tblunder not to generalize, I would expect you not to either.
I am hoping to get sometime off coming around Thanksgiving and maybe we can work something out.
Thanks
Just a reminder that the News & Views chat is on tonight (5-6pm Pacific/8-9 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
Tonight's topic is Automotive Products: Aftermarket and car-care winners and losers
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html
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Tblunder, I really did try to look at an FX4, but they told me that in my area I would have to go to a dealer that carries the "SVT" lineup (Special Vehicle Team?). Maybe in Mexico City they have this lineup?
One thing I did notice at the dealership was that all the Rangers and Dodges, even the full-size Dodges, only had 5 bolt wheels, versus the Tacoma's 6 bolt wheels. Their suspensions and brakes seemed pretty wimply and miniscule when compared to the Tacoma's as well.
you just outdid yourself pluto. do you actually think that matters? do one more thing, ask a sales"GUY" if you can take a wheel off and compare the sizes of the studs. is this over your head? probably. but nonetheless, you may be able to handle it. ford has been using 5 holes for years. even on its pre '97 full size trucks. did their wheels come off? well, my father had 8, dating all the way back to '77, and they all stayed put.
as far as suspension and brakes. id compare your tacoma brakes to my rangers any day. for '01, they put bigger brakes on ranger 4x4's, and they will stand the truck up literally (also, abs is standard). suspension, id assume they are both comparable.
unless you get ford's off-road pkg, the base 4x4 suspension may be more road mannered. thats why they offer the off-road pkg. for people who are going to not care about how good it rides. however, it is quite plush. but no one really buys a 4x4 compact truck for the ride now do they?
you claim to be such an off-roader, but you believe that that really makes a difference? and you claim you can tell how good a suspension is just by pushing on the tailgate? you sound like the perennial lot prowler these sales"GUYS" are looking for. but no one could sell you a ford, not even one of those way cool FX4 rangers that is so sought after by yourself. TRD's rule!!!they have 6 bolts!!!! im waving now pluto. you again, topped yourself. hehe
My Tacoma has stainless steel tow hooks, skid plates, 4:10 rearend, 8.4" pumpkin, 260hp/275ft/lbs of torque. Drivetrain that is covered for 60/60,000 not 36/36,000, so the drivetrain must be somewhat durable.
About the tires, I have 265's on 16" wheels, which equal almost a 31" tire. As in a 265 is a 31" tire. I think you have beat the tire aspect to death.
As far as buying an American made vehicle, when they make something I can trust, that is when I will spend my hard earned money on one.
You say Toy is ancient in their design, what about Ford still using Torsion bars?? These have been around for quite sometime.
Kind of put your foot into your mouth on that one, didn't you?
I suppose with modifications, a dealer's willingness to honor warranty work will depend on each individual dealer. I have a hard time believing a raised truck, especially with a different differential in the rear (which you didn't address) will still have drivetrain problems fixed under warranty. Maybe it all depends on who did the work. What if you wanted to do all the work yourself, instead of taking the truck to the dealer and having them, or one of their approved private shops, do the work?
Tblunder, you are more angry than ever! Maybe you should be directing your anger at your salesman instead of me. It's NOT MY fault you were taken advantage of. And I can browse at a Ford dealership all I want; that doesn't mean I'm going to buy a Ford or "like" the sales staff.
BTW, I already told you the driveout price on my truck was $22,500, which included tax and licensing. Of course, NOW you are going to say that your $19,500 was the drive out price. I hardly paid 4 grand more than you did, and I have the undisputed best performing truck money can buy, STOCK AND UNDER A LONGER WARRANTY. My 31x10.5x15 BFG All Terrain TA KO tires cost me $549 ($113 each) after mounting, balancing, tax and the disposal fee for my old tires at Discount Tire in San Antonio. Who quoted you $680? Be careful, you were about to get ripped off again!
You just never learn...
-I think the LSD option is in lieu of the locker. Meaning one or the other, not both.
The item DL Rear Differential Lock. This seems to imply the 'locking diff' is available on other models even without the TRD package..
b. The note on this 'DL' item says "Not available with 'OF' which is the TRD package..
Also, the 'OF' TRD package says 'not available with 'DL'..
The reason DL is not available with OF is because it's already included in OF.
That toyotaguys.com site is just a normal aftermarket site.
I just checked the toyota.com site and it does not list a 'limited slip' diff either..
We all know there are a HUGE number of aftermarket suppliers for both the Ford and the Tacoma where you can get any accessory imaginable. (hehe, except for the 4 door supercab tacoma).
You still can't get a factory installed and warranty covered supercharger or locker on the Ranger, can you?
Oh, and those 4x4 truck of the year awards and all that? Not available on Ranger either.
But you're right, there are tons of aftermarket accesories. It's just that the most important ones aren't warranty covered factory options on the Ford, that's all.
You decide...
If something as clear as this issue is 'inconclusive' then you really should remove the blinders.. Before I speak too harshly I will ask the question as we know there are many folks to lurk here but really don't want to lower themselves to conversations that often take place here..
Question:
Has any Tacoma owner here received a factory installed limited slip differential? What is the factory option code? Note, it's not DL..
The Tacoma double cab as the supershort bed and more normal sized rear seating area accessible via 4 real doors, just like the sport trac.
These are generally classified as 'crew cab' pickups.. Not 'extended cab' pickups..
I've heard rumors that Ford is looking into a Ranger version of the Sport Trac, but then it seems like Ford would have 2 trucks that have similar capabilities..
Actually more magazines rated the Ranger than the Tacoma.
Also, you mention the 'most important' options on the Ranger are aftermarket.. That is only your opinion..
In my opinion the 'most important' options on the Tacoma are either aftermarket (like LSD) or just plain not available (like extended cab with 4 doors).
That doesn't make either of us wrong or right, it just shows not everyone has the same priorities..
You're right about different priorities. Personally, if I wanted a four door truck, it would be a crew or double cab configuration, as this actually has room for people. Let's be honest, both the Ranger and Tacoma's extracab is more suitable for stuff than people - which is what I want and why the absence of more doors doesn't really bother me.
I drive on a lot of rough and flooded roads where I'm at. Also, good mechanics and service are hard to find, so I need something low maintenance. The Tacoma fits my needs to a "t."
"also, i have no shocks hanging below my axles. what are you ever talking about? my shocks are mounted just like yours. staggered on each side of the axle.
so what, you have the same sized tires. yes, i have higher ground clearance than you. i jacked my torsions up a little. something not available to you and your coils."
-C'mon Tbunder, snap out of it. put a taco and a ranger side by side, and then look at the rear ends. you will see nothing hanging below the axle on the taco, but you will see the shocks hanging down on the ranger. (although the Ranger's aren't as bad as the S-10's.)
BTW, I wouldn't be too proud of having torsion bars instead of springs. cranking them up not only makes your truck ride like crap but also puts a lot of stress on the CV joints. but I'm sure you already knew that...
It does appear that on Edmunds for only the 2000 model of the Tacoma, they have it listed as a 'limited slip' diff.. All other model years, it is listed as a 'locking diff'.
Interesting.. Funny that they would only offer a limited slip diff in one model year.. Does anyone here own a 2000 Tacoma with a limited slip diff? Is it limited slip or a locker? (note that we're not talking about the TRD package as we know this package includes the locker).
I agree that the extended cabs are better for 'stuff' than people.. I find it much easier to get the stuff in and out of the back with the extra doors though..
Let it go
People ARE going to disagree about things. That's not a reason to resort to the nonsense that we've seen here.
Back to the trucks!
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tell you what, i will go to a toyota dealer today and put my truck side by side with a trd and compare rear ends, i will also take a tape and measure ground clearance at the rear punkin and frame rails.
also, my truck doesn't ride any different than before i cranked my bars. every truck sits different coming out of the factory. that is why they put the set screw on the bars. also, i only went up around an inch, nothing that will put any more stress on my c/v joints. now if i had cranked them like three inches, could be different. i had the front end re-alligned, or checked i should say, because it was still perfect. probably as the result of my counting turns perfectly for each side.
http://home.earthlink.net/~azttora/truckoftheyear.html
I tried and tried to find the entire article, but couldn't. The Ranger was one of the trucks competing with the Tacoma in the article.
Pay special attention to the line that says something to the effect of "in every performance category, the Tacoma won."
In case you're wondering, no, I'm not going to part with my truck so I can get vacuum pulse locking hubs!
I do not know tblunder. I just know I like my Ford. He likes his. And for some reason you can't accept why I like Ford better than Toyota, and why I choose Ranger over Tacoma. Let the sleeping, run-over, and shot dogs lie. And quit thinking less of others because they don't agree with you.
And Locker when not enganged is one wheel drive. To test this, do burnout. Notice which wheels actually spin. Find puddle if necessary.
SMGILLES and PLuto--->My argument is if you want to take a brand new truck and the ultimate off-road vehicle, you're gonna be trashing the truck. If importance on off-road performance (where lockers are needed) then you can modify the vehicle. If warranties are important to you, buy a Kia. I don't think swamp water in the oilpan, or mud packed bearing will help you get your rig fixed under warranty. I really don't care about the off-road attributes, or which one is less likely to spill coffee going 45 mph up and down sand dunes. Ranger can hold it's own in the off-road, and will get you where you want to go. I'd just like to get to work, be able to haul stuff occasionally, and maybe throw a few mountain bikes or camping gear into the back. I don't plan on running the baja.
Allknowing--->Well it did give me a chuckle.
I'll try it one more time:
Never has it been said by me that toys don't have LSD or a locker(EVEN though the spoogster has said there is no LSD on Tacomas) It is SIMPLE FACT that you can't have both. You either have an open diff, an open diff with a locking mechanism OR a form of LSD. A carrier/diff CANNOT physically have both LSD AND A LOCKER.
The fact that pluto said his locker reverts to limited slip makes me question his knowledge.
Pluto, I hope that shoe doesn't taste too bad.
you ARE angry aren't you?
modvptnl: Maybe your post was deleted because of that shoe reference.
Me and tbunder managed to have a normal discussion (in another forum) without accusing one another of being idiots, feeding shoes to one another, and generally making too much fun of things at hand, even being on different sides of the truck war here. So lets all keep it cool.
although i may have said some out of line and disconcerning things, i never made up a story of a ford sales staff down in new mexico or wherever knowing some guy in iowa who bought a ranger at a tiny dealer in des moines. that one took the cake pluto. but yes, i even apologize to you for things i said. i still know my ranger will go ANYWHERE your tacoma will though.
Stang, since you obviously don't believe what I said about the Expedition's wheels coming off, do some research. Don't know what year/model has the problem, but ours at work do have it, and we are constantly briefed on it and the mechanics keep busy. Just because your friend's vehicle doesn't have this problem is not conclusive evidence NONE of them have it.
Modvptnl, maybe I was mistaken on the LSD/locker. I don't know because, as I stated, I've found no information out there regarding this matter. Anyways, I'm not going to start making long distance international calls to Toyota dealers to find out so I can prove a point with you. This goes back to what I said about these spec wars. Who cares? I care about performance, not specs.
I know we'll never change eachother's opinions on Toyota vs. Ranger. How can that be possible when you guys dismiss things like 69 Ford TSBs vs. 2 Toyota TSBs, or 19 Ford recalls vs. 2 Toyota recalls, or Toyota constantly making #1 on quality studies where Ford is at the bottom of the list, or the fact that Tacoma has whooped Ranger in every offroading contest? Sometimes, pride blinds people to the most obvious things. An unbiased third party would easily conclude the Tacoma is the better truck. This does not mean the Ranger is garbage, it means it's not as good as the Tacoma. That explains why the Ranger costs less.
in all seriousness, I do like the ranger. I think it's a solid truck, I just happen to like the tacoma better. but it is fun to argue about the pros and cons of each, even if we do get a little carried away sometimes.
without a doubt, i did jump the heck out of it. i also bounced it so hard in off-roading over huge ruts and ditches, that i cracked the steering column.
it is NOT just shocks, tires, and skids. no way dude.
i do not have the list of specific hardware it provides, but here's some i remember.
ill try and find the list from gm, and post it later. but here's what i got for now.
it has a (all of these are as compared to a reg. S10 4x4):
totally different frame and chassis
)4" wider track
)a full-size silverado rear axle
)specially lengthened and heat treated c/v joints along with ZR2 exclusive ring and pinion gears
)'99 to current year ZR2's have a carbon fiber/fiberglass skidplate package-before '99 they were heavy aluminum (which i trusted more)
)the obvious cool fender flares
)the best stock tires (although the new FX4 ranger has these too) of any truck made today-31x10.50/15 BFG all-terrain
which includes a matching spare as well
)armored brake lines
)a huge rear axle-track bar that runs the distance horizontally side to side of the rear axle to help in axle hopping at high speed desert
running.
)high-pressure 46mm Bilstein shocks
)specially positioned rear axle leaf spring mounting
thats what i remember off my head. there are a whole list like i said. its pretty beefy. and trust me you dude, do NOT think they're weak. they will take abuse like crazy and climb like
a son of a buck too. i actually got one with the lever t/c, although like your taco, it was not a direct link i dont believe. just like the button, it was computer controlled.
pluto- my truck was built in March '01. since then, the new FX4 is out, which i knew was coming when i bought mine. reason i didn't wait was i wanted the 60/40 split bench up front. something not offered on the FX4. other than different tow hooks and wheels, its the same exact truck i have now (no offense, but your '98 has a different frame and different front end completely compared to the new tacomas). it does have different shocks, and a different lsd, but i have put the BFG tires on mine from the recall.
whenever i do sell a vehicle, i always AT LEAST get my payoff on the loan. i never trade in at the dealer. i always sell privately, then pay cash. so do i lose money? maybe a little, but only the amount that i paid for when i had the vehicle. you cant expect to not pay a little when owning a vehicle. i will have no problem getting my money back when i sell, and i will probably make some since it is still worth close to 23K according to kbb.com and i paid a lot less for it than that. it only has 6K on it and has every option available. im dumping it in january for a crew cab something or other. maybe even a toyota if i can get a good deal (would be a non-TRD). ive been looking at them, and i think they're a little more rugged than the nissan. although the nissan is a solid little truck (only compact with FULLY BOXED frame front to back.) but its a little underpowered. we'll see. i luckily can get a new truck when i can justify it. i need a rear seat, so that's justification. regards
For the future, we will see! Maybe bigger body and 3.7liter and have heard of possible diesels. We will have to wait and see though.
tbunder:
I enjoy my 99 Ranger too. But I will tell you cranking the bars can be done, but do it more than an inch and it will stress the CV's. Your much better off doing a 3 inch body lift.
Pluto:
I am sure your Tacoma does fit your needs to a t. They are highly reliable and in your situation perhaps the best choice.
Kumbya, my fiends, kumbya. . .
But I will still take my Ranger...for now.
So your ONE work truck must be characteristic of ALL vehicles of the same make/model/year. That's my point. I admit to knowing nothing, or even attempting to research this issue. But I know there's a resolution either by TSB or parts replacement, or good ole muscle. Experiment with washers under the lugs, hit it good with the impact wrench, Try some locktite, or buy different lugs. Can't cost more than 12-15 bucks to fix. Either way I just don't think it's typical of any make or model, or fair to use that problem to characterize Ford.
Also you keep bringing up the TSB and Recall counts, well I think all regulars here are well aware, thanks to Spoog.
But here's something to think about. If Ranger has such a quality problem, why are there so many here that stand behind it, or have no problems with their rides? Don't say we are dumb, blind with pride, or whatnot, we know from experience.
I have a girlfriend and soon to be fiance, two computers at home, and a drag car to keep running, and planning to move soon from an apartment to a house, so every dollar counts. For someone like me, who doesn't want the ultimate off-roading machine, would like a little power under the hood, and decent amenities, mostly driving a 5 mile commute, an occasional backpacking/camping trip, and would like the ability to haul a couch or motorcycle easily, the Ranger will do just fine.
Here's why:
http://www.zmax.com/warranty/
cpounsr- i went up probably an inch and a half with my torsions. it sits a lot better and the a-arms actually hang when sitting still, rather than being nearly straight across. either way, i now have right at 37" from ground to middle of bottom of wheel flare. same as my two ZR2's. and nearly a half-inch rake from front to back. well uniformed sitting truck if i do say so myself. so why am i selling it in january? hehe. room.
smgilles- i realize that the tacoma is basically unchanged since '98, but i did read somewhere that the frame was beefed up in '01. dont know where, probably the rear, since the front portion, like the ranger, is fully boxed. i dont know about diesels coming to america in compacts, but definitely something different and more powerful. later people.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/news/newse4.html
This last link includes details on the supercharged Ranger concept, and the 2002 FX4.
There are a lot of changes coming to all trucks in next couple years. Tacoma might be coming out with a diesel by Isuzu, Ranger might get a charger. Still, thats in the future. Lets argue then, not now about which company has bigger plans for the next3 years.
Ford settles the ignition lawsuit.
If trucks aren't race cars, explain the supercharger on the 3.4l. It's all about what's important, and who appreciates it.
Good thing about my Links Scorpio is that my articles have the word Ranger or Tacoma in them...