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Comments
Mind if I throw that on Napster?
In any case, it's no longer there. Maybe it was just a sloppy u-joint. I guess it still holds true that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Check the wording gang. Cspounser has had problems with 4 wheel drive.
He also has reservations about the ability of the rangers interior to hold up to long term use , but he wont tell you that.......
ed
My interior looks great after 37K miles. I remember a post from a Tacoma person saying their seat springs or pad was wearing through.
The TSB numbers are a joke! Anyone who knows what a TSB is and how they are generated will know this...
2002 now for the offroad Ranger huh? Too bad, I thought it was going to be available this year :-(
http://www.auto.com/autonews/cwirh17_20000517.htm
When I mean "serious" 4X4 problems, I was refering to the type of problems I documented once on a Tacoma TSB. Remember the one where the transfer case locked up?
I can go get that specific TSB if you would like.
Seriously, the Ranger 4X4 system has taken some serious pot shots here. I only wished to state that mine engages when I want to and with one exception, disengages when I want.
That one exception was when it would not come out of 4X4 low. Turns out it was the relays in the engine that had popped up and were not making good contact. Pulled and reseated them and it worked fine.
That was about 33,000 miles and a year and a half ago. . .no repeat of the problem, however, I do check those relays every oil change.
I regard to interior, other than dust from 4 wheeling, no problems. No creaks, wind noise and I have not broken my arm rest, since you might ask. Did have a door freeze shut in the last storm. . .that a Ford defect?
I also don't consider things like water-pumps as maintenance so I've honestly never noticed any major differences in maintenance costs between makes (non luxury). You can figure repair part costs all you want, but I've owned (personally and through my business) many vehicles in the last 10 years (several Toys, Fords, and Dodge) and the Toys never returned to the dealership. My wife won't give up our 92 Camry V6 w/180K miles. Was it a value new? Hell no, it was $5000 more than a Taurus. But we've had it nearly 10 years, spent very little in maintenance, about $400 in repairs, and my wife still likes it better than any of the newer cars she's driven. When your wife tells you she doesn't want a new car, that's priceless LOL!
I went off-roading awhile back with 3 other Tacoma owners, two of which had rigs less than a year old. There are plenty of people that wheel in $24K rigs. The guys that had the lockers went up a couple rocky hills that I've never even considered in my non-locked Taco.
I think alot of people buy the locker and have no idea what it is. But, I think alot of people buy trucks to look cool so what do I care if they blow their money on crap they don't even understand?
I think toyota should offer an LSD, at the very least on the 4X2. I'd much rather have open-diffs and a locker on a 4X4, but then again I use my truck. For the city truckers, the LSD would help them alot more than the locker. My next new Taco will have locker and 4X4, but if they only offer push-button 4X4 I'll be looking for something used.
Steve
The locker can only be engaged in 4low also.
I have a friend who has a TRD and I went every place he did. He claimed he was going to bury my Ranger, and my Ranger can't do this, and that. The TRD package is overrated and over priced. For "tuned suspension" of Bilstein shocks, springs and a locker you pay one heck of a price. You can get this aftermarket for less cash.
I can see your point about value. What do you say to the person who has over 180K on a Taurus and has had great reliability? Who got the better value then?
On-road, I've never had a problem towing/hauling/etc. with open-diffs. My 3/4 Ram has open diffs and it only tows. Like I said, if I need additional traction, that's why I bought the 4X4. I've never needed 4X4 in a dry/on-road situation for towing.
I agree for alot of people the TRD is a waste, but why should I care what they do? At least it's an option for the folks that do use it.
Like I said, not much value to a Toyota, just a nicer vehicle for the most part. We've had Camrys and Tauri and the odds of reliablitity are definetely in the Camrys favor. I could have saved $5000 when we bought my wifes camry back in 92, but we weren't happy with it comparatively to begin with so she would have wanted something new in a year or so.
We have had three Tauri (plural?) and two Camrys through the company, and the Camrys have been far superior, albeit more expensive up front. We had a Lumina because we do work for GM contractors. Whoever was going to meetings with them had to drive that, what a POS. We replaced that with an 99 Olds Intrigue which is pretty nice. Might buy another one of them, even though I generally have never been a GM fan. We'll see how it holds up.
It has an available LSD. Is this a first for Toyota? Maybe a future option for the Taco? That'd be a definate plus for a Pre-Runner.
How can one tire that spins be better offroad? And here we go again with the same old "Toyota is god offroad thing", and the Ranger just can't go offroad garbage. I have already stated a locker is better for severe offroad use. But, a locker is absolutely no use for the average everyday user. The locker can only be engaged in 4low. Try to make a sharp turn with that locker engaged and what happens? How often do you go into 4low? How often do you even go offroad? Into areas a locker is going to get is full use? The Locker is what makes up a good part of the TRD package and the average user may use it maybe 2% of their total driving time.
Allknowing, I have deflated that "Toyota is god" bubble too many times huh? You really have one heck of a chip on your shoulder for me. I did not make the mistake by paying an extra 2-3K for a sticker and an open axle..
However, when you follow that down to what it means, the foot note says:
HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF PELVIC INJURY
Ford Ranger still has a star rating for the extended cab p/u and 5 stars for the basic p/u for 2001.
Ouch, one star and a foot note. . .
CT- In reality CT I can see that the LSD can be a big advantage in places like your State. In California where I live, it's really not needed and a locker is more appropriate in my opinion for the time that I'm off road. If Toyota is smart, especially in a SUV that will rarely if ever off road, the LSD is probably a better choice.
Isn't driver competance/skill the best off-road feature any vehicle can have?
Is the LSD better than on open-diff off-road? Marginally. Is it better than a locker? No because if I need extra traction I can engage the locker and provide power to both wheels. Eventually an LSD will just spin one wheel at a time (generating a ton of heat), while the locker will spin two simultaneously. If that won't get you anywhere, try something else.
On mud and trails, my open-diffs do just fine. But for the steep hill and rock climbs, I've witnessed the locker come in quite handy. Would I use it very often? No, but it's there when I need it. For general off-roading, I don't think the LSD is much help anyway. You might be able to stay in 4X2 longer if you are into that sort of thing. But once in 4X4 the fronts are going to pick-up the majority of the duty. Isn't ford bringing out a locker?
Looking forward to more disscusions,
Steve
A locker CANNOT help you tow, pull, or haul. The Toyota locker cannot be engaged in 4high, it must be engaged in 4low. How fast can you go in 4low? Sure can't go 55MPH! MY LSD is ALWAYS available. Do yourself a test. With your truck NOT in 4x4 mode pull out on a wet street and punch it. ONE tire will spin. With mine, one spins, the clutch action catches the other, Walla! two tires catching traction. As much as you want to try to downplay an LSD rearend they are the MOST functional for the everyday user. And certainly more functional than a locker. You all paid lots of cash for an option that my be used 2 percent of your driving time, some Bilstein shocks and springs, and that wonderful sticker..
Steve, I am trying to understand your logic. Wouldn't it be better to have 2 wheels trying to get traction rather than one? Are you telling me you run your truck in 4x4 mode all the time? and at highway speeds? And when you go offroad, do you immediatly engage 4x4 mode? or even 4low mode? Do you know what happens when you try to make a sharp turn in a locker?
I was only trying to make the point that if you have a locking rear diff, then by definition it's not an "open" diff. (duh) Don't get so defensive, it kinda sounds like you wish you had a locker....
I'll answer your question vince, if you take a turn at high speeds with a locker engaged, you're [non-permissible content removed]-end will do all kinds of scary stuff. Which sounds like the exact reason toyota made the locker only engagable in 4-low (limits speed). Why would you want a locker at high speeds anyway? How often do people off-road at high speeds? Last time I went wheelin, I don't remember ever coming out of 1st gear in 4hi. Nothing like driving through a muddy 24" rut at 50mph. If you consider a gravel road as off-roading, then I do that daily at 50mph, and I've yet to get stuck anywhere even with those open-diffs.
Another question. How does the LSD help a 4X4 pull/tow/haul? My 3/4 Ton Ram pulls 12,000# and I've only needed 4X4 during a snow storm.
lol!!!!!!!
LSD is for pavement driving, and for vehicles with problems griping slippery surfaces on pavement.
The reason Toyota hasnt put LSD on a Tacoma yet is because they have yet to find a LSD setup that will last 100,000 miles without problems.
Toyota doesnt slap crap on their trucks before testing it.
" If your looking at buying a used Ranger, take it for a very,very long test drive"
-Edmunds.com
" The Ranger rattled like a diamondback offroad"
-Edmunds.com
It has nothing to do with instability of the rear end at hight speed etc. It has everything to do with the unusual stresses put on the driveline when making sharp turns on pavement with the locker enguaged.
Most folks only ever need 4wd low when 'off road' or very slippery conditions, so in this case it's pretty safe to have the locker enabled..
To be honest, I really think everyone is in agreement and yet folks still continue to try to argue:
- Of course a locker is better when doing off road 4x4 ing. But few folks ever take their trucks into conditions that require a full blown locker. (Lowe's parking lots are generally paved).
- Of course the LSD is a great option that helps some when off-roading, and also can help in more routine situations, especially if you have a 4x2..
btw: whoever mentioned that the LSD helps tow better, I don't understand.. The only towing situation where I see an LSD having an advantage is a 4x2 pulling a boat up the slippery boat ramps..
spoog:
lol, 'toyota doesn't slap crap on their trucks before testing it'... They slap the crap on after testing it..
Drive them all, and buy the one that fits your needs at a reasonable price, and has a dealership thats worth doing business with.
2k1trd, yes, I see its LISTED as a 1360 OPTION, but.. tell me what Toyota dealership is going to sell it to you for that? Ever heard of Markup?
In another chat room on the net I asked several TRD owners if they paid 21 or 22K for their TRD's or they feel they can get a TRD for 21 or 22K, they ALL, ALL said NO WAY!@
I notice not comment from spoog about the TSB's and the JD powers ratings and the crash test results.... Hmm..
At least this room has got rolling again.. :-))
-So by that logic, isn't an LSD an open diff until a wheel starts spinning????
LSD can be used at any speed.
LSD doesn't require any manual operation to engauge.. (although at times you can increase the LSD effectivness by applying a brake while giving some gas).
LSD can be used in all terrains.
The LSD is not an 'open diff until one wheel spins' as you implied.
The locker in the Tacoma, although provides more equal torque across both rear wheels:
-should not be used on pavement while making tight turns
- only is manually enguaged when you goto 4wd lo.
I have a question about LSDs (just kidding) But I can see how it would come in handy on icy/snowy roads, if you DON'T have 4WD.
PS Vince: I never said I had a locking diff, and the TRD option is only about $1100 - $1200. I spent instead an extra $1000 on 16" aluminum wheels and 265/70/16 tires. The 4X4 already comes with gas shocks. Spending $200 more for a locking diff and sticker wasn't for me, but I understand that some folks would use it.
Cheers,
Steve
You engage a locker when off road, that is why you engage it only in 4X4 low.
Here is what Edmunds says about the TRD package:
OF TRD Off Road Pkg
Rear differential lock, Front and rear all terrain tires with all-terrain tread, 265 mm tire width, 70% tire profile, T tire rating and black sidewall, Front and rear alloy wheels with 16 inch rim diam and 7.0 inch rim width, Wheel opening moldings, Rear console box, Logo/graphics exterior decoration, TRD badging, Heavy duty alternate suspension, Requires: [TA] Tachometer And [BU] Bucket Seats /XC/DC And [PO] Power Package/Pre/4x4DC And [EM] Power Black Outside Mirrors
invoice: $1,097 MSRP: $1,360
but you will notice requires:
TA Tachometer invoice $76 MSRP $95
BU Bucket seats invoice $52 MSRP $95
PO Power Package invoice $432 MSRP $540
EM Black outside mirrors invoice $96 MSRP $120
So your out at least another $656 invoice or $850 MSRP to get the TRD pkg.
Most people I would believe would choose an option that includes the items listed.
Bottom line, Toyota makes you option up to get what you want, Ranger makes more things standard in the XLT model.
I won't argue that a LSD is a better setup for a wide variety of uses, whereas a locker is off-road specific. I have a limited-slip on my rig and love it. My point is this: the TRD package is an off-road package, correct? a locker is better for off-roading. therefore, it seems a locker is a natural addition to the TRD package. Now, whether or not 98% of TRD buyers actually USE their Tacoma for off-roading I don't know. -that's another matter entirely. But it seems dumb to me when Vince rips on the TRD for having a locking diff when really, it's a logical part of the TRD off-road package.