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Also, I saw an investigation on NHTSA for rear seat occupants lamp malfunction in BMW's so people do report ridiculous things at times as complaints. Also, you can put a safety claim in with NHTSA on the tires your vehicles have which goes as a complaint against the manufacturer when in fact that is more a tire manufacturer problem. Auto manufacturers do not take any responsibility for any issues with tires. They will always tell you to take it up with the tire manufacturer if their is a safety concern. So I don't put much stock in that report at all since people can complain about anything. Same thing with JD Power initial quality study. People can report any little ridiculous thing they want which will put a check against the car when in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean a thing.
So true...Ford threw Firestone under the bus, even though they had the same problems with Michelin tires on Explorers sold in other countries.
Same thing with JD Power initial quality study. People can report any little ridiculous thing they want which will put a check against the car when in the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean a thing.
Also true, and I've got 2 examples:
1. JDP dinged the Mini Cooper for a cup holder design. It didn't even break - it was just not a good design.
2. Hummer got poor scores for "fuel economy". Uh, what did owners expect? Seriously.
The latter was not a quality problem, in fact the Hummer excelled at fuel consumption.
Second, if anyone would indeed file such complaint, it should not be the Toyota owners only; it would evenly apply to all brands. So it would still be a fair data.
Noone could explain why Toyota SUA complaints were at half the rate of Ford's in September 2009, prior to the Saylor incident.
I will - media hype and attention.
Also note the complaint rate is already down 80%.
So that is old news. They probably looked at all of 2010, going back to January, which we've already discussed here at length.
However...there is more to this that does, IMO, put some significant responsibility back on Ford.
They advertised the Explorer as 'Sport Utility Vehicle', with emphasis on Sport and Utility. Ads showed the shiny new Explorer loaded up with a family of five and the dog, with kayaks/canoes and roof top carriers stuffed with camping supplies...all while also towing the family's motorboat or RV trailer. Well, fine and dandy you might say...that's what the vehicle is designed to do right? Well, wrong actually..
I might stand to be corrected here in specific details, but if memory serves, Ford's stated payload capacity back then was only 800 give or take pounds! AND, they recommended tire psi I believe was a paltry 25 psi! Trying to preserve some semblance of ride quality with a live rear axle no doubt. So now...let's factor in real-world vehicle loading in those vehicles, and some owners who simply don't check their tire pressures bi-annually let alone bi-weekly to discover that a drywall screw has bled out air down to around the infamous 8 to 12 psi mark and basically remain there...and factor in that owners are doing 75 and 80 mph down the freeways on hot summer days...is it any wonder the poor tires (Firestone, Michelin or whatever your fav brand might be) retaliated with failures? So ya...Ford throwing others under the bus, or any other mfrgr for that matter, they all will pass the buck if they think they can get away from it.
Plus...it is becoming more common knowledge every year now, (to the more involved and astute car shoppers at least) that mfrgs choose rubber for their vehicles built to a price point and is one area of inferior quality that is often ovrlooked or assumptions made, by the masses. Stock rubber is not all that great unless you are buying (and paying for) a performance oriented car.
Of course that's Firestone's side of the story.
According to the same source (LA Times/Edmunds/NHTSA) in the same article, the average yearly number of complaints per 100k vehicles from 2005 to 2009 prior to the SUA are:
Toyota: 37.0
GM: 29.5
Ford: 22.9
So Toyota had more complaints than GM and Ford all along, even before the SUA publication. Any explanations?
ROFLMAO. That's a 1999 toyota complaint. That's eleven (11) years ago.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But the other point I was trying to say is, tires is one of the four categories that can be filed as a complaint and if there are issues with a particular tire manufacturer that a certain car company uses then that car company will have an inflated rate of claims against them despite the fact its not really their fault. This is just one example I can use to illustrate that I wouldn't put that much stock in that data.
I'll bet you that at the time of Ford's firestone fiasco, the claims against Ford were sky high despite the fact it wasn't really a Ford vehicle issue but a firestone issue yet Ford had to suffer the brunt of the scrutiny.
Ford:
- advertised the car as a real people and sport utility hauler
- yet buried well beyond public perception, were very restrictive payload weight limitations
- spec'd it with that particular model and brand of tire, and
- also lowered the already fairly low psi rating from (someone suggested it was originally 30 psi) to 26 to try to offer a more compliant ride from a rear leaf spring live axle. I don't believe there would have been anywhere near the number of tire failures had Ford required a 35 or 38 psi tire pressure in a tire better mfg'd for a vehicle as heavy as the Explorer was, and especially knowing full well, a huge number of them would spend most their life overloaded.
I disagree. The automaker should fully test their vehicles with the tires they plan to use as OEM. Toyota uses horrible tires on their vehicles. My Sequoia tires are Dunlop Grandtrek AT20s that are all but worn out with 21k miles on them. The dealer rotated every 5k miles. That is on a $51k Limited model. I would hate to think what rags they put on a base Camry. The Firestones that came on my 1998 Suburban lasted 46k miles and over 7 years. I replaced them because of weather checks from always being parked outside. From my experience I would say Firestone tires are far better than Dunlops.
The OEM Dunlops at TireRack sell for $156 each. They have a horrible 5.1 satisfaction rating and a UTQG 300 BB. There are a LOT better tires for a lot less money. Just one of my pet peeves about Toyota.
I'm not defending this, I believe its wrong as well, but it is the way it is and unless people step up it will continue that way.
Currently i am trying to upgrade from my equinox into a full size truck ....The Sierra is on my list but the Tundra and F-150 are currently higher.
How could anyone not sip on pop while they drive? Incredible. Without an exclamation mark after the "e" in incredible, too.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
You've watered down the data by including cup holder issues.
The point was to show that complaints about toyota products are minor things like cup holders while complaints about the "other" cars are major items. The logical was based on the tenet that all complaints are counted equally in importance.
I don't accept for a minute that all toyota complaints are tivial because a 12-year old complaint about cup holders was found. Is that really the hypothesis?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Time for an Odyssey or Sienna! :shades:
I don't think too many 11 year old cars have busted rear axles. Sounds bad to me.
But I never said that.
I never used the raw data. xlu did.
I used the information that was sorted and sifted, and from that we determined that the serious SUA complaints were at half the rate of Ford's prior to September 2009.
Thank you for supporting my point.
Delivered!!! Buyer doesn't even have to pick it up?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For $2,700, I'll deliver it at least as far as the county line. :-)
Juice, that stylized 86 looks more like a BS to me.
Whither next year? "Loyalists stayed with it, but Toyota simply couldn't conquest other brands like it used to, leading to its first significant share loss in the U.S. market."
2010: The Year in Marketing (AutoObserver)
Soft spots in its product-replenishment cycle left Toyota with some stale staples as well
Also, the Sonata stole away more than a few sales, plus it didn't help that the Camry Solara coupe and convertible were dropped.
The Prius MPV will more than make up for that, especially if the trend of increasing gas prices continues...
As great as the expansion of the Prius line might be, including the plug-in in 2012, it will never do Corolla or Camry numbers with its price range unless gas shoots back up to $5/gallon (which it might, admittedly).
Corolla and Camry are starting to look pretty whupped in their classes.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Toyota should add DI to the 2.4l engine, that could boost Camry and Corolla and RAV4, lots of volume models. Scion xB also.
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/12/28/former-shell-boss-predicts-5-gal-gas-in-2012/-
And two years ago when the big storms happened we hit $1.38/litre x 3.78 = $5.22/ US gal or $6.27 Imp gal.
And I am just amazed that we have to beg/borrow/steal requests for turbo diesels on these shores for the past decade at least. But no....NA's don't realize there is a problem until it is staring them down in their face/wallet. My point is, that when gas goes 5. (and way more) then there will be an even greater price premium applied to diesel purchases than there already is. Mass production should help to keep prices lower.
But of course they charge more for diesel than gasoline lately, even tho it costs less to refine. Taxes...look no further than taxation. And let's face it, the gvt is of two faces. They 'claim' they are environment conscious, yet do they really want us to burn fewer gallons? Taxes on every gallon help pay the bills. If people are buying less gas, the bucks have to come from somewhere else. Where better than fuel that we have become so dependent on? And for many of us, our daily life function as we know it, stops dead in its tracks without gas.
Regular is $3-3.19 or so, but diesel can hit $3.70.
It is a win win for them tho. Heavy trucks, rail, city buses, utility vehicles all burn diesel because so much more work can be done with much less fuel, so they have them over a barrel. And the of course the mass use of gasoline, helps the tax bucks coming in because it takes so much more gas to do the same work as diesel.
When you read emission results, they always tend to skew the numbers to suit them. The fact is, ultimately, far less waste goes up in heat (exhaust) with diesel than with gas. So that means there are fewer emissions overall from diesel. They try to say how high particulate carbon counts are, but that is one of the ways they skew the figures. Sure there is more carbon from diesel, but in the bigger picture, it is not...or should i say..it should not be a deal-breaker. They have played the black smoke from vehicles not tuned correctly and "smelly" to the hilt, but do people go around sniffing exhaust pipes or do they just drive their cars? Right now thousands of motorists follow a TDI diesel or MB or BMW diesel and wouldn't know it, but assume it's a gas job. That is how clean the tech has come, and if diesel was refined with less sulphur etc it would be even cleaner still.
Sort of off topic, but a very interesting piece of trivia.
My best friend recently retired his beloved 86 Turbo diesel Jetta with goodness knows how many miles since the odometer broke around 200000 and that was about 10 years ago...(VDO instruments never were all that great a quality). He bought himself a 2011 TDI Golf Wagon.
But get this....his 25 year old Jetta, has the ORIGINAL EXHAUST SYSTEM....FRONT TO BACK. I say original but i suppose that is technically a slight exaggeration. To have his exhaust system last that long, he had to replace one hanger bracket (universal fit adapted to fit, was less than 5 bucks at the local auto parts store) and he rewelded the flange to the tailpipe at the muffler flange with a small propane/oxygen kit purchased from the local hardware store. Like myself, he does all his own work, but could have gone to a muffler shop and had them use a torch and paid 20 bucks per visit for those owners who believe in doing small repairs since it can be done, but prefer to not get on their back under the car and get their hands dirty.
The main point here though is that the original exhaust piping, muffler and tailpipe lasted over 25 years. Cool eh? Try that with a gas job..
A little device is helping keep tabs on what you breathe in Fairbanks (Newsminer)
May be time to refuel the What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car? discussion.
That would be an EMPHATIC NO.... :sick: And many states like CA tax diesel at a lot higher rate. They want to get the difference you are getting out on the highway.. Even when CARB realized the data on diesel was compiled by a phony scientist, they kept the regs as they were.
Can you get the HiLux diesel PU in Canada?
A couple things may shoot Toyota down on that vehicle. Lack of supply and bigger demand at home. If they continue to build the Prius in Japan the dollar to yen will keep their profits down.
Plus I'm sure they'd love to be in a position where demand exceeds supply.
No, I don't believe Cdns either are smart enough to demand any truck that would make as much sense as it would. Of course, if they did bring it, Toyota would not offer it with a manual tranny.
There were rumours that they were going to offer a dsl in the FJ. I'll betcha it is that very same engine. I won't be holding my breath here tho.
I simply loved my old 3.4 litre inline 4 NA dsl in the 82 Land Cruiser. It was a compact engine length and was such a smooth running engine (and powerful) and very very fuel efficient, that it made the 4 litre 6 that came out later, a moot point. It was very smooth and with a turbo could have easily satisfied the luxury market expectations for smoothness, noise and urge.
I wish I could find a reasonably low mileage 3.4 right now and the 5 speed manual that came in the old FJ's. My Land Cruiser wagon had a 4 sp manual, and 4th was a direct gear (no OD). It would make a really common sense project to install it into a mid to late 90's F150 4x4. Or even a newer truck if you could find one that needed an engine and tranny.
If Japan, they are going to be expensive.
That will at least restrict demand.
The only reason the Cam/Cor/Rav are at the volumes they are moving for now are the leasing/financing incentives.
I can clearly see the "86" design shape in there, though.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Of course, of course, in fact it is several years overdue! Why did Hyundai have to be the first one to bring DI to mainstream vehicles??
And how about getting an automatic with more than 4 gear ratios installed in the RAV4? Is this the very last 4-speed left on Earth (except that of Toyota's own Corolla, and a couple of ultra-cheap, bottom-of-the-pile models from other manufacturers)? Maybe I'm overstating that, but Chevy will make hay from its 32 mpg EPA rating because of the 6-speed auto, and the proof is the like 9-day supply of Equinoxes they have on hand these days.....
Don't know how many days' supply Toyota has of RAVs, but it is one of the models with a ton of leftover 2010 stock sitting around my local dealer's lot, with them marking them down $3000-4000 and begging people to take them.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)