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Toyota on the mend?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't know how many days' supply Toyota has of RAVs, but it is one of the models with a ton of leftover 2010 stock sitting around my local dealer's lot, with them marking them down $3000-4000 and begging people to take them.

    Not sure how many 2010s are left. I know the local SD dealers show 102 vehicles and a TMV right at invoice price. By comparison the same area Chevy dealers only have 16 Equinox available, with TMV close to MSRP. The Equinox getting 4 MPG better on the highway than the RAV4 should be a selling point. The Chevy tank is bigger as well extending the range over the RAV4 by at least 150 miles. That can help finding lower gas prices. Which Onstar will help and Toyota has nothing like that to offer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The only reason the Cam/Cor/Rav are at the volumes they are moving for now are the leasing/financing incentives.

    Not true - Toyota's incentives are lower than Nissan's or Honda's.

    And don't use the truck argument because Toyota sells more trucks than both of those combined.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited December 2010
    Why did Hyundai have to be the first one to bring DI to mainstream vehicles??

    I think Hyundai shocked everyone. A friend I know who works for Subaru called the Sonata a "segment changer". Pretty rare for an employee from a competitor to admit that.

    And how about getting an automatic with more than 4 gear ratios installed in the RAV4?

    The V6 is coupled to a 5 speed auto, FWIW. Also, it's selling well enough that they haven't needed to.

    Still, it's only a matter of time before that bites them, so an update is due.

    Edit: I'm trying to look up days of supply for the RAV4, Automotive News publishes that every month IIRC.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    This is the most recent number I've found so far, back in August, but supply was very short on the RAV4:

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1047761_are-suvs-making-a-comeback

    In fact, of the ten 2010 vehicles in shortest supply, nine are SUVs ranging in price from the affordable Toyota RAV4 (16 days' supply) to the luxurious and pricey 2010 Audi Q7 (15 days' supply).

    I'm sure Toyota ramped up supply, perhaps too much if some dealers are full of them now.

    It's tough to forecast sales, gas prices spike and SUVs and Crossover sales dip.

    The industry standard is a 60-day supply, though, and I seriously doubt there is more than 60 days' supply of RAV4s right now.

    Still looking for more recent sources of info....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No problems at all with overstock inventory, check it out:

    http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA71856129.PDF

    Some observations:

    * average is 67 days, Toyota had 64 days as of Dec. 1
    * Lexus is in higher demand that Toyota/Scion
    * In sales per dealer, Toyota/Scion rules, they're #1
    * incredibly, Lexus dealers are #2
    * best domestic sales per dealer average is less than *half* of Toyota/Scion

    That last comment proves further dealer consolidation is in order for competitors.

    Also, peek at the bottom right corner, it's the Koreans that are kicking tail. Supply is extremely short. European makes are in 2nd, then Japanese, and domestics have the biggest oversupply problems.

    Equinox is indeed a bright spot for GM, and deservedly so (6EAT + DI = 32mpg hwy).

    Cadillac is overstocked pretty bad, but Saab and Mitsubishi are worse.

    Subaru is also kicking asphalt.

    Any how, point is Toyota's supply is fine, Lexus is actually a bit short of supply right now.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    "Equinox is indeed a bright spot for GM, and deservedly so (6EAT + DI = 32mpg hwy). "

    I have a feeling there are quite a number of Nox owners would not agree with you on that. And not getting EPA FE numbers are the least of their worries. Among serious wiring and system incompatibility woes, engines are knocking and pinging badly. Dealers are telling owners to use hi-test gas to help until GM can come out with a software upgrade in the ECU. But i think they have advanced the timing so much to try to reach those higher mpg figures for the size, weight and height of the Nox, that that, combined with too tall gearing, is making for a combo that I don't think is going to be all that easy a fix. They also have a lot of clunking tranny shifts, engine stalling etc etc. The head guy behind the Equinox should be fired. If not for authorizing a less than workable combo to start with, but in how poorly issues seem to be handled as they are surfacing. I am amazed that it would seem that word has not spread, if the supply numbers are as restrictive as is being said. The glow really wears off fast anywhere from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. How can some GM vehicles be relatively problem free and others completely riddled with issues? I think responsibility has to come from the top, then the top of each model on down..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I've also heard people are not matching the EPA numbers with those. Reviewers' average mpg also don't even come close.

    Still, power output is good, and they're on the roomy side, so I'm not surprised demand is strong.

    GM will figure it out - the Lambdas had early transmission issues but a re-program seems to have worked, owners are much happier now.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    I read today that Toyota is going to crank up their MS plant.
    It makes sense based on the value of the Yen.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good for American workers.

    North American output is way, way up this year, while output in Japan is down.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Big thumbs up to this dealership, which performed the spare tire carrier recall on my Sienna yesterday and gave me a courtesy car wash and vacuum. Sweet!

    It's been below freezing for a very long time and I haven't had a chance to clean the van.

    FWIW the dealership was quite busy, several customers were purchasing cars. A family took delivery of a new Swagger Wagon while I was there.

    Cost cutting police alert: I sat in a new Highlander, loaded up near $40k, and the headliner on those is now cardboard with peach fuzz covering, as opposed to the fabric they used to use on those, and still do on Camry and Sienna.
  • robsisrobsis Member Posts: 162
    Cost cutting police alert: I sat in a new Highlander, loaded up near $40k, and the headliner on those is now cardboard with peach fuzz covering, as opposed to the fabric they used to use on those, and still do on Camry and Sienna.

    That's a shame. We had an '05 Highlander (now being driven by our son in Houston) and it had a marvelous headliner. Heavy, thick fabric. I hate the cheaper ones as they tear easily and are horrible to clean if you get something on them....

    I wonder if the sound deadening filler has been cheapened too?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably - for 2 reasons: cost and weight.

    Dryer lint over coard board has no place on a $40,000 vehicle.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,671
    edited December 2010
    >Dryer lint over cardboard has no place on a $40,000 vehicle.

    That was my laugh for the day. It's true for _every_ brand. That was the best description of what some of that stuff has ended up looking like.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Absolutely.

    Heck, I think loaded RAV4s, which cross $30 grand with ease, should have nicer materials on top models.

    Sadly this is par for the class. I saw an Equinox at the DC Auto Show last year, sticker was a jaw-dropping $39 grand, and it had the same dryer lint over cardboard headliner material. Ridiculous.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Dryer lint over coard board

    That is such a perfect description of those cheap headliners! Thanks for the LOL! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You guys both like that more than "peach fuzz", eh?

    I'll have to remember that. :shades:
  • robsisrobsis Member Posts: 162
    >Dryer lint over cardboard

    I agree with others who enjoy your description...thnx for the smile! :)
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    VW/Audi had DI as early as '06. I dont know the sales numbers but I know there are lots of Jetta/Golf/Rabbits etc running around.
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    edited December 2010
    In the Feb, 2011 issue of the Car and Driver magazine, top of the line Lexus LS460L loses to the new comer Hyundai Equus.

    It's very ironic in two ways:

    First, Lexus was trying to raise its price point of the current generation LS460 to the BMW 7 level and failed very badly. It's a far reach.

    Second, not only it could not reach the Germans, but it also loses to the lowly Hyundai who is trying to delicate the same formula which launched the Lexus 20 years ago.

    It appears that Lexus has forgotten what made them successful in the first place: a German alternative for a lower price. But Hyundai learned that.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited January 2011
    The yellow HOV single occupant stickers issued to 85,000 Prius owners in CA will not be valid after July 1st 2011. CA will issue 40,000 new stickers to EV (Leaf) or plug-in Hybrid owners (Volt) starting in 2012. The white HOV stickers for CNG will still be good till 2015. How many will dump their used Prius on the market when they can no longer drive it in the HOV lanes?

    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/factsheets/clean_vehicle_incentives.pdf
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited January 2011
    Can you post the link ? Car and Driver states that Equus is comparable to Lexus GS350/460 and not to LS. Yes , it was in Sep 2010 - so dont know about the latest comparison.

    Here's the link ::

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_hyundai_equus-first_drive_revi- - ew
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Also , Last paragraph from Car & Drivers review:

    The Equus is due in dealerships this fall, but Hyundai hasn’t set firm pricing. The company has indicated that the car will start in the mid-$50,000s, with the Ultimate trim demanding a few grand more. It may be a bargain compared with an S-class, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the big Benz—or any other premium flagship—in cachet, sumptuousness, or dynamics. The Equus will have to overcome some serious obstacles and the image of its own brand to make headway with its intended audience. Still, with the high-tech sales and service, massive list of gadgets, and business-class back seat, Hyundai shouldn’t have any problem finding a couple thousand thrifty-minded (but not poor) buyers each year. If not, we hear that New York City’s limo companies are champing at the bit (horse joke!) to add the Equus to their airport fleets.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2011
    First, Lexus was trying to raise its price point of the current generation LS460 to the BMW 7 level and failed very badly

    Wrong - Lexus sold 10,759 thru November, while the BMW 7 had 11,229 sales. That's so close it's a rounding error.

    lowly Hyundai

    Welcome to 2011, have you been in a cave for the past 5 years?

    There's nothing lowly about Hyundai for the past couple of years at least.

    Hyundai's Genesis outran the BMW 5 in CR's avoidance manuever, also.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    "Hyundai's Genesis outran the BMW 5 in CR's avoidance manuever, also."

    Really?? Surely BMW has not gone that soft?

    That is so hard to believe, i think i will remain a skeptic for now on that.
    (altho, i believe that might be what has been written, but i'd have to see the back-to-back myself)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    Toyota is selling at 0 for 60. It was supposed to be for a few months, then through the end of the year. Now it looks like it will be permanent, just like the other volume sellers.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    edited January 2011
    Did the state change the ruling to not include the Volt?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,718
    That's Crap and Drivel's opinion.
    Hyundai needs to send them more advertising money.
    Is this an admission that Lexus = Toyota, since this is posted on a Toyota thread? :P
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    What to do ?? You guys dont believe the only magazine that does not take money and buys it's own cars and even then they are called as having pro-Asian bias. LOL! :shades:

    And just b'cos Lexus is discussed in Toyota thread -doesnt mean Lexus=Toyota!! Just b'cos the Sprinter is discussed in the MB threads,doesnt mean MB=Sprinter. Toyota is the parent company of Lexus!! So probably , a father figure I guess !! :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm going to buy a Fiat 500 when they get to the dealers and stick a Ferrari badge on it. I mean, they own a controlling interest in Ferrari after all. :D
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Good thinking, Steve! I may have to join you....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Did the state change the ruling to not include the Volt?

    The new laws favor the Volt and Leaf. Starting in 2012 they will give out 40,000 HOV stickers to Plug-in Hybrids and EVs only. The Prius is out of the HOV lanes as of July ONE. 85,000 Prius owners that only bought the car to use the HOV lanes while driving alone, will have to join the rest of the single drivers fighting the rush hour traffic. Maybe they will find someone to carpool with.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    LS or Equus...I'll choose neither, thanks anyway.

    I'd like to see the total value of vehicles sold in those LS vs 7ers - BMW will have serious ownage in that one, no rounding error possible.

    Didn't a Lexus model score the slowest of all cars in some CR test?
  • xluxlu Member Posts: 457
    Wrong - Lexus sold 10,759 thru November, while the BMW 7 had 11,229 sales

    I called the current LS460 a big failure based on its sales over the years. Take a look at the numbers below; the current generation LS sales volume is the lowest in the 20 year LS history and the big decline started right from the year Lexus priced it close to the BMW 7 instead of 5 in 2009.

    Of course the lower priced cars should have higher sales volume. BMW 5 series has much higher volume than the 7 series. The Lexus LS should be compared to the 5 series, not the 7 series. Now the cheaper LS sales volume is even lower than the 7 series, that shows how big a problem it is for Lexus.

    Calendar year Total sales U.S.
    1990 42,806
    1991 36,955
    1992 32,561
    1993 23,783
    1994 22,443
    1995 23,657
    1996 22,237
    1997 19,618
    1998 20,790
    1999 16,357
    2000 15,871
    2001 31,110
    2002 26,261
    2003 23,895
    2004 32,272
    2005 26,043
    2006 19,546
    2007 35,226
    2008 20,255
    2009 11,334
    2010 10,759 (thru Nov)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Really?? Surely BMW has not gone that soft?

    Yep. The reason I remember is that it surprised me, too.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Toyota is selling at 0 for 60

    How do the LS' incentives compare to the BMW 7? I bet BMW has bigger incentives.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Didn't a Lexus model score the slowest of all cars in some CR test?

    Not that I know of. More info?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Any higher priced vehicle will do less volume. You said the LS "failed very badly" and that is simply not true.

    The BMW 7 design is newer, just freshened actually. Lexus LS actually had a very strong November so it's a tight race, we should have the final tally for 2010 soon.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    The LS is the highest rated sedan by CR with a score of 99 !! :shades: :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited January 2011
    Yeah but they are biased against Toyota, note how they put a "Do Not Buy" rating on the Lexus GX but not on the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

    Wait a sec.... :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Slightly off topic but I know Gary will get a kick out of this...

    A local lawyer's office has a TV ad that says "If you suffered death, stroke, or heart attack" to please call them.

    Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone bowed to CR rankings.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    I am pretty sure the LWB LS scored terribly in the CR accident avoidance maneuvers - maybe not surprising for a big isotank marshmallow. I don't subscribe , but googling it uncovers a lot chatter.
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Juice, I have the 05 Lexus GX and boy, I love it. Feeling of opulence/luxury, quiet peaceful ride, no road feel ,minimal steering effort,soaks up every road bump and so quiet. Like cruising on a sofa with wheels. Fit and finish top notch. :P
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    edited January 2011
    In a world where every car mag or website depends on advertising dollars including Edmunds , I would rather trust a mag that takes no advert money and buys its own cars and now even recommends Ford and some GM vehicles. And ya , they are so Asian biased but selectively I guess. They trashed Hyundai all these years but when quality really improved for the Elantra,Sonata,Santa Fe- they recommended them .And so I guess,now they are 100 % Asian biased!! :shades: ;)
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    When I use phrases such as "minimal steering effort" & "cruising on a sofa with wheels", I'm describing a car that I dislike: an Avalon, for example. ("Hang on, Maggie! I'm taking her out of park!")

    If I wanted that kind of experience, I'd spend the rest of my life on my family room couch.

    Are you a big fan of Matlock reruns & early bird specials?
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    This is the CR take for the Lexus LS in handling situations::

    ""
    Routine Handling: The LS is not particularly agile. Body roll is not excessive in everyday driving, but if the road or the pace become slightly demanding, the LS begins to protest with increasing body lean and a trace of buoyancy. The steering is responsive enough but doesn't give the driver much feedback.

    Emergency Handling: The LS was secure on our track, thanks to its stability control, but felt a bit sloppy and clumsy with pronounced roll and only fair grip. It posted a fairly low speed in our avoidance maneuver and didn't inspire a whole lot of confidence. ""

    Dont see any bias there !! :P
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    I also have the Camry and Tundra but Avalon is the best Toyota model. Not everyone likes a jittery stiff ride and has got nothing to do with age. It's just a matter of personal preference. One man's poison is another man's nectar. If those ride qualities were so undesirable, Toyota would not have sold many Camrys and Lexus would have never beaten MB and BMW !! :P
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I have read that the Avalon has retained some of the road-noise blood that Toyota, but way more so, Honda, is known for? And i got the impression it was either the latest generation car, but for sure, if not, then it was the generation before the current one. Any truth to that?
    You sound a bit biased so i would appreciate hearing from others, but your opinion also.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    ...and Lexus would have never beaten MB and BMW !!

    As far as the top German brands are concerned, Lexus really doesn't exist. Mercedes & BMW compete with each other & with Audi, not with Lexus. (If you've been paying attention, you'll know that Audi is now the hot luxury brand.)

    If you're looking for the "couch on wheels" AARP geezer driving experience, you won't even consider the Germans. Chances are that you can't even spell BMW. You'll trade your Lincoln Town Car for a Lexus.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    I'd look at total brand sales before declaring who beats who. The Germans sell worldwide. Lexus is offered in much of the world, but doesn't sell nearly as much anywhere else but here.
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