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Should Buick build a new under 20K vehicle?
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Comments
The fact that the Cruze will be a little larger than the Cobalt might help the business case for a Buick based on Delta 2 global platform.
I'm not optimistic or pessimistic - I'm realistic. But I think you need to reread my post - I was not saying GM or Buick are dead. I'm saying they are gravely ill. They ar ebeing kept alive with tax money; and it is uncertain how long Congress will agree to give the Big3 special status.
The point is that GM is concentrating on shrinking brands and models, and postponing some new models. Given that one or more options is to eliminate Buick even if GM stays in business, why for heaven's sake do you think they should be considering adding a model?
Every second and ounce of brainpower at GM should be focused on how to survive the next few months, and the next couple of years in an absolutely terrible economy for car sales.
If you want a dose of reality I heard this morning on ABC, the banks are broke again - back to Sep. status. besides what Obama has pledged in stimulus, the banks are going to need an additional $1 - 1.5 TRILLION $.
Of course, there's little to discuss if we assume that Buick won't make it.
Chapter 11 or bust.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I believe that GM messed up a bit when they aligned Caddy-Chevy and B-P-GMC. I like the idea of Caddy targeting the sportier Germans and Buick being the American equivalent to the more luxury oriented Lexus and Acura. I'd pair these two together as the aspirational brands you move to after you've "arrived" in the world.
When they killed Olds, they killed the wrong brand. Pontiac should have been axed, imo. Olds was the middle class brand in the mix where folks too affluent for a Chevy but whose pockets were too thin for Buick and Caddy spent those 'tween years until they could move up the ladder. There were a lot of Delta 88's and 98's on the road in the late 70's and early 80's until GM suffocated the brand with some of the dullest designs of the late 80's and early 90's.
Pontiac goes away and Chevy steps up as the bread and butter / apple pie / youthful sporty division, assuming Pontiac's old role. As it stands, econobox Aveo's and Cobalts are sold beside big money STS, XLR, DTS, etc. A rather hodgepodge, confusing mix huh?
As for the trucks, what does GMC offer that isn't a cloned Chevy? If you don't kill GMC, then differentiate them a bit. Work trucks, heavy duty and thinly optioned basic trucks are sold as Chevys at the Chevy-Olds place. If you want leather, DVD's, navigation, etc. then those are truly "professional grade" GMC's which you will find over at the ritzy taj mahal Caddy-Buick-GMC store across the street, keeping with the higher end image of Caddy/Buick.
Saturn: lost opportunity, good bye
Saab: what were you thinking? besides jumping on the merger/acquisition bandwagon, what was Saab going to offer GM? a stronger European presence/revenue source maybe? --give it back to the Swedes
Hummer: good times are a distant memory, good bye
Regardless of what happens: just like location, location, location in the real estate business, its design, design, design with autos. Design brings them in the door, quality keeps them there. Thin the cloned models with greater differences between the ones that remain. Return to the old days when driving a Caddy actually meant something different than driving an Olds or Chevy or whatever. Give the brand managers and design teams a specific goal to work towards.
I hope GM can pull it off. As for the dealerships, I hate to see people lose their businesses but a thinning should have been made long ago. I also hate to see a small town lose its dealerships but I can't see how it is sustainable any more.
Despite all the problems GM faces now and the current market there is nothing that product can't cure. I really don't think that current management understands this.
I'm certain they understand it 100%, but have laggged in their desire and effort to introduce enough winning designs to catch a rapidly moving target. One strong head wind they face is weak finances, since it's very expensive to revamp the product lineup.
So overall, GM just needs to:
- Design a new full size car that will go to Chevy, Buick, Cadillac
- Design a small car that can go to Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab
The rest is already covered.
They have a midsize car - Malibu/G6/Aura/9-3/Lacrosse
They already have a compact crossover coming - SRX/Torent/Terrain/Cheapuinox/9-4x
They already have full size crossover - Enclave/Outlook/Arcadia/Traverse/next Escalade
They already have a full size BOF - Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade
They have two identical pickup truck lineups
Sounds like they are almost done revampint the lineup.
How could the Verano improve on the Cruz? Here are my suggestions: First, it should feature independent rear suspension, for improved ride and handling. Second, exterior styling, and interior design and materials, should be upgraded. Third, more power, to go with the upgraded suspension and premium image. The Verano doesn't have to offer super car performance, as long as it's noticeably better than the Cruz, Civic, Corolla, etc. Fuel economy will suffer a little, but the target market for this car doesn't demand the very best fuel economy.
As for price, forget about $20,000. This car will start at a little under $25,000, and go for something over $30,000 fully loaded GS version. The GS should be exciting to look at and to drive, in the spirit of the pre-WWII and mid-'50s Centurys.
That's how I see it.
That's a lot of $, especially when the larger, more powerful, and fairly fuel efficient Sonata is right there.
As I said before, if GM can't bring a car to market that matches the competition in quality and performance, yet sells for 10% less to make up for the stigma surrounding GM due to its history, then GM will not have a hit.
A Buick Verano at $25K, will just be another wishful grasp for a "savior" for GM or Buick, just as each of their introductions ove rthe last 30 years has not been a homerun for GM.
Hyundai will soon introduce a new generation Elantra, which will compete more directly with the Verano than the Sonata does. Also, next spring Honda will introduce the next generation Civic, and I recently read that a new Acura model will be based on the Civic. This compact Acura may be the spiritual successor of the Integra/RSX. So, it looks like the Verano will have strong competition. Therefore, your point is well taken. Still, I think it's premature to count the Verano out before its even introduced. I think it'll have a decent chance if it's clearly differentiated from the Cruze.
GM needs a couple of vehicles that people can get passionate about. I'm talking passionate - as in the original Mustang passion, Jag E-Type passion. They need to sell hundreds of thousands of a model. They don't need a Chevy-clone 4-cyl. small vehicle at $25K+.
Buick and GM need clearly superior vehicles right now, not another me-too, at a high price. I'd certainly take a nicely loaded Scion TC at $20K MSRP before I went to GM for 1 of these Cruze vehicles that will likely cost MORE! The Cruze should be optioned the same as the Scion TC and be 5-10% less. Option a Cruze out. GM still is not competitive many times.
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lol, never mind. I couldn't even post that with a straight face...
Cimarron 2.0
Buick is just getting its act together really well. Do NOT blow it.
Upscale or not, I don't see a re-badged Lexus Corolla. Buick needs to decide what it wants to be. Chevy is already a mass volume product, so it seems to me niche market (for lack of a better term) with lower volume, but higher margins makes more sense for Buick. If gas gets (and stays) over $4 or $5 a gallon, then they can visit compact cars (and probably get better margins on it). But I think at even $3/ gallon a Verano only degrades the image GM is trying to build for Buick.
There may not be a Lexus built on the Corolla platform, but I read that Acura will introduce a car based on the Civic platform, Infiniti plans to introduce a compact below the G25, and that Lincoln will use the 2012 Focus platform for a new model.
It's certainly possible, even probable, that the market for upscale compacts isn't large enough to accommodate all these models.
Well, the civic based Acura could be one of 2 things. First, Canada, for years! has gotten a Civic based model known as the Acura EL. It really is a poorly executed attempt at a luxury Civic IMO which is probably why it doesn't get sold here in the States.
The other option which seems more likely is the rebirth of the wildly popular Acura RSX which developed a cult following for it's great chassis, S2000 sourced gearbox (one of the best in history IMO) and huge aftermarket appeal for the tuner folks. It could help bring back some of the (much needed) mojo for the Acura brand. And a completely different target than the Cimarrano...
The compact below the G25 (which is a big car) is supposedly going to be a hybrid model to compete with the HS250 from Lexus. And as much as it's not helpful in maintaining Infinitis "sports sedan" image, they are in need of a fuel miser as their lineup isn't that efficient at the moment.
Now, the Focus based Lincoln has me curious. Do you have any links to this one?
I don't believe Buick as an individual brand has to meet and average Federal fuel economy standard. As part of GM, Buicks's numbers are simply mixed with the rest of GM's divisions, and a single GM number is generated. So Buick could sell vehicles that get 10 mpg on average, as long as other divisions in GM made enough economy cars to bring the GM average back up.
I too see a problem with Buick offering a few range of size vehicles, just as Chevrolet offers that. This cloning of vehicles, causing market overlaps, with the only difference beiong styling and a few options, has failed once at GM, it's just failed at Ford with the closure of Mercury, and the Plymouth/Dodge/Chrysler setup has failed a couple of times.
Yes some of the Japanese have done this overlap as well, and I would say that they have not been huge successes either. Acura, Infiniti, Scion, and Lexus do not sell that many vehicles.
IMO, a Buick or a Cadillac or whatever brand you have stand for some image. If the federal government mandates something that causes you not to be able to make a that brand then close the brand down! Start a new brand, which stands for what you can make.
Sorry, but I don't recall where I read about the Focus based Lincoln, but it was in the last two weeks. It may have been in Automotive News or Motor Trend. I'm sure it'll appear again soon if there's something to it.
I see a lot of value in brand identity. Every brand should stand for something. You know what a Ferrari stands for. You know what a Fiat or Toyota stands for. You know what the name Rolex stands for; you don't want to see Rolex want increased sales and therefore sell a $200 model in Sears! I think it's desperation and counter-productive (most times) when brands try to change who they are.
If Buick sees large, luxury cars fading away, the answer for Gm would be to shutdown Buick, and start with a fresh sheet of paper, to create a new division.
I agree. By the way, what does Fiat stand for, as contrasted with, say, Volkswagen, it's main competitor?
"If Buick sees large, luxury cars fading away, the answer for Gm would be to shutdown Buick, and start with a fresh sheet of paper, to create a new division."
Whoa! Buick is probably not your cup of tea, nor mine (I've never owned one), but as one of the oldest brands in the auto business the name still has a lot of brand equity. Do you just throw that away and start over? I think it's easier to turn a brand around, as Buick has been doing, than to start with a clean slate. What about the dealers, and the costs associated with discontinuing a brand? Also, let's remember the Saturn example. Okay, okay, GM made some bad mistakes with Saturn, including not putting those resources into Chevy, but still...
I don't know a ton about Fiat, both brands understand they have a middle-class market. They mainly put out affordable vehicles. They don't try to be everything to everyone. When VW has wandered from their brand image they have failed - can you say Phaeton. I believe that when VW wanted to do luxury vehicles properly they bought a luxury brand (forget whether they own Bentley or Rolls).
If Buick has been near-luxury, large smooth vehicles that is what they should make and please that segment of the market. They don't need an upscale SUV, that should be GMC's market, and they don't need a Chevy Cruze. And Chevy does not need near-luxury cars that might infringe on Buick.
GM's resources would be best spent not making so many models that steal sales from one another; competing with each other at price and size points.
but as one of the oldest brands in the auto business the name still has a lot of brand equity.
You think so? I think Buick has a negative brand-value to GM. It makes me think of the old GM, the many bad Buicks of the 80's and 90's, and of 60 and 70 year old, badly dressed guys on their way to the track to put $2 on each pony. Sorry Lemko, that's the way I see it. Buick also reeks of the Tiger Woods issue, and the whole golf-club stodginess. The only Buick I've ever really liked is the Riviera from the mid-60's.
"I think Buick has a negative brand-value to GM."
I think Buick sales and status in China is proving you wrong on this. In the U.S., Buick's brand equity suffered a long, extensive decline, beginning around the mid-'70s, and lasting until recently. Things are finally turning around, as evidenced by the LaCrosse, Enclave and Regal.
As far as the LaCrosse, Enclave and Regal go, you're probably missing the point that those vehicles could be selling better if they didn't have a Buick logo stuck on the car. There are many people who won't go to a Buick dealership even if they clone a Jaguar XJ and sell it for $40K. Those vehicles might be selling okay despite the Buick logo.
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Nowhere to go but up... China saved Buick from oblivion.
When they first said they were going to do this I was dead set against the idea but it looks like they did their homework.
The pictures I have seen make it instantly recognizable as a Buick and much less so as a car off the Cruze platform.
While everyone will say the Verano is so nice ... there are other new cars in this size category that will be thousands less. Give me a new Elantra or Civic; they'd meet my needs fine, and I take the thousands saved and take a vacation to Hawaii the next few years.
I went and sat in a Cruze, a few weeks ago, and while it is nice, the couple models they had on the lot were also over $20K. No go, at those prices. I can get a nice AWD Subaru Legacy for $22K.
"Buick will get rebadged, redesigned Astra, report says The Opel Astra GTC concept was first shown at the Paris auto show in October 2010.
While the engine choices have not been locked in place, the car is expected to target young buyers who want a sporty car that handles well and has plenty of power, according to caranddriver.com. A source familiar with General Motors' plans for Buick confirmed the caranddriver.com report for Automotive News.
Buick is in the process of rebuilding the brand with products such as the LaCrosse, Regal and the 2012 Verano, which goes on sale this fall.
Last year, Buick's U.S. sales totaled 155,389 vehicles, a 52 percent increase from the previous year. Sales through April this year totaled 63,152, up 43 percent from the same period last year.
The new Astra is wider and sleeker than the previous model. That car was sold by Saturn for about a year and also was called Astra.
The redesigned three-door Astra originally was planned for the now-defunct Saturn brand, according to the source familiar with the project. With a few exceptions, Saturn essentially sold rebadged Opel vehicles. For example, the Saturn Aura sedan was a previous-generation Opel Insignia with minor cosmetic changes.
With Saturn's demise, Buick was selected to market a few rebadged Opel cars. For example, the current Insignia is marketed here as the Buick Regal, a key vehicle in the brand's turnaround.
The timing for the new car's introduction has not been determined. Also uncertain is the assembly site, either in Germany or the United States. It's not known if the car will keep the Astra name.
The three-door Buick will share GM's compact front-drive platform with the Chevrolet Cruze and Buick's upcoming Verano sedan. Verano sales begin this fall,
The Verano will be equipped with a 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine producing an estimated 177 hp and 170 pounds feet of torque. A turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine will be offered at a later date.
The Astra GTC will be offered in Europe with a range of engines, including an engine producing as estimated 300 horsepower.
A Buick spokesman said the brand would not talk about future vehicle plans."
This reminds me of the old Buick tag line, "Wouldn't you really rather own a Buick?" I don't know about this Astra, but Buicks are getting more appealing.