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So you'd save a lot up front by just buying the conventional 4-cylinder CE or LE.
My '04 4-cylinder LE is getting from 23 mpg in the city to 38 mpg on the highway. So far, my '05 XLE (also 4-cyl., but with the 5-speed auto) is getting 21/32 mpg city/highway.
Unlike the Accord hybrid, performance is not the main focus so for those who got to leap ahead everyone at the traffic light TCH is not for them. I have to give credit to Toyota of their decision on practicability.
For who still doubt the mileage saving on hybrid: research showing whoever bought a hybrid will more and less trying to challenge the best mileage they can achieve (EPA rating as goal for example). This somehow change the driving behavier a little. They tend to be more gentle on acceleration and deceleration as well. As to the number from testdrive article, those driver usually drive harder than most of us. So the mileage will be lower than average drivers in the real world. One thing I know is the more passengers you carry, the worse the gas mileage will be. The mileage difference will more likely stand so the percentage of moleage different is even higher. I usually keep the vehicle longer so to me I have 10 years to jusitify the $3k extra up front. Also keep in mind that the $3k including some option closed to $1000 plus tax deduction. Overall I may not save more by choosing hybrid but at least I contribute reduce the harmful emission!
I sat in an '07 Camry XLE which was not on a turntable. As is typical of cars in auto shows, nothing electrical worked, so I couldn't adjust the seat, which was at its lowest position. The dashboard seemed kind of high, but maybe that was because of the seat position.
I think that the door pull on the driver's door will be a problem for a lot of people. There's no way to use the window switches without hitting the left side of your wrist against it. The door pull may be a minor thing, but I think I'd find it really annoying. Perhaps Toyota should make Ace bandages optional equipment on the '07.
In terms of comfort, space and visibility, the Hyundai Sonata and the incoming Kia Optima looked really good by comparison, and I will probably be buying one of them.
The lack of opening seat space is an issue since the Camry would be our family's designated cargo hauler(we dont own a van, wagon or suv).
How does it drive? Quintessentially Camry-like. Unlike the spanking-quick Honda Accord Hybrid, which uses the hybrid power to boost the performance of its V6 powerplant, the Camry moves at a deliberate and unhurried pace — which is to say, it's kind of slow. Although it has enough asphalt savvy for ordinary driving, it's rather yacht-like in its cornering and steering responses.
Which makes the fuel economy all the more remarkable. Compared to the fuel economy of the 2.4-litre, automatic-equipped LE model (9.8 L/100 km city, 7.1 highway), the Hybrid offers about 30 per cent better fuel economy than the four-cylinder, even though it is heavier (by 160 kg) and more powerful (by 34 horsepower).
TCH Review
If they say "the Camry moves at a deliberate and unhurried pace — which is to say, it's kind of slow." I wonder what they would say about the prius which is 2 seconds slower in the 0-60 time.
I went out cruis'n in my 4 cylinder today. 237 hp out of 2.2L Life is great.
MidCow
P.S. -Even better my bonus this year almost paid for the car!
There is no realistic need for a V6. All my family owns and drives are I4s and most of the time with 3 or 4 people in them. In my I4 civic I plenty of highway power being able to pass and merge and get on the highway quicker than many other vehicles that have V-6 or even 8-cylinders. What most people fail to realize is that the V-6 and 8cyl come with a lot more weight making them almost identical to 4cyl.
In addition when at highway speeds there is barely any difference in power between most 4s and 6s. Plus the majority of people who say they need a V-6 to merge or climb a mountain barely even use any of that power and rarely have the engine go above 3-4k rpms.
For all the people that say they need a V-6 to merge or pass on a highway, those are the people that get me nervous when driving next to. If they need the extra power to do simple manuevers, watch out! They are compensating for their poor driving skills.
There is my 2 cents!
Wrong! Horsepower/torque is still what allows a car to accelerate.
The CD coefficient of drag is a factor, but it is not the major factor in accleration at highway speed.
If you think different go get a SRT8 (425 horsepower Hemi) Jeep which has a crummy CD 0f ).51 and compare it against a Prius which hhas a low CD (.25) at highway speed for acceleration.
For highway driving, the key is to drive slower. That's true for all cars, but especially for hybrids.
Wind resistance increases with the square of velocity, and at highway speeds wind resistance is the dominant consumer of energy in your car. So if you drive twice as fast, your car has to work four times as hard, and even though your trip only takes half as long, your engine still has to do twice as much work to get you there.
Wind resistance does increase as the square of the velocity, but horsepower/torque is what differentiates acceleration. And torque can be increased with lower gears,!! Try putting a 4.11 rear end in a Prius and you will see what I mean.
The only time CD comes into play is when the torque/horsepower of the two cars in nearly equal.
LOL,
MidCow, slippin through the air.
Good job Toyota. Honda will have their work cut out for them with their new Accord in 2008.
Good job Toyota. Honda will have their work cut out for them with their new Accord in 2008."
Ummm, no doubt, but what does this have to do with hybrids?
1) Any update on the possibility of getting a tax credit on the initial hybrid offerings?
2) Any ideas of the purported new exterior colors that will be offered.
3) Have any of you negotiated any solid contracts to purchase. I would consider a valid contract would be a “out the door price + tags and title” based on invoice plus say $1500 or so. Colors and options could be selected when available.
Thanks so much.
lance
2.) Almost all of them have been shown already.
White,black, silver, gold, barcelona red, silver pine mica, nautical blue, blue mirage? ( Avy color ), one more maybe.
3.) Dont count on any discount on the TCH's. Initially there will be only 2-3 per store. Think Prius more than Camry. 2-5 month waiting list likely at sticker. Above sticker in certain areas. SoCal? So FLA.
2) I was under the impressions that the Hybrids would come out with some different color combinations. I don't know.
3) Yes I agree that with 2-3 per dealer, the purchase will be tough without paying a premium. Good luck to everyone.
lance
Only if you can actually purchase one - depends on availability. I expect that Toyota will sell it's 60K vehicles by June 30, which means the full tax credit would only go until September 30. If Toyota is smart, they won't sell that 60,001st vehicle until July 1; then their customers will get the full deduction for this entire year!
Estimates:
Prius' sell about 8000 / mo
400h / HH sell about 5000 / mo
If sales continue at'normal levels then 60000 should be reached in May... just before the Camry comes out. You're right if the sales drag out for another 45 days then the credit will last all year.
Now which one first????? The Cruiser or the Camry?
If this forum is an indicator to future demand for the hybrid Camry, then I do see dark clouds ahead for hybrid Camry sales.
Indifference seems to be the prevailing theme in this fourm. Is there anybody out here with a actual view of the Camry hybrid (good or bad)?
The new RAV began slowly and the reactions, now that people have actually driven it, are universally positive and actually most stores are sold out or have very few.
People have to see them and touch them and drive them in person for there to be a sizzle. Initially there will only be about 2 per store per month so they will appeal to a few 'early adopters' until word begins to spread.
I agree with you. I would never even consider a car until I test drove one. As long as Toyota plays their game of hide and seek with hybrids, it will be difficult for mainstream buyers to consider them. Hybrids will be niche vehicles for the "just gotta have the latest" buyers.
4 cylinder models
CE $20500
LE $22000
XLE $24000
SE $23500
V6 models
LE $24000
XLE $28000
SE $25500
Hybrid 4c???
$26500 - 30500 depending on equipment
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/02/20/211074.html
Expect the Hybrid to start in the low $20s and cap out well below $30K. They already said they were looking to price it below the XLE.
Mackabee
Also, on the toyota.jp website it shows several interesting options for the 2007 Camry, some of which are obvious (side mirror lights, parking assist sensors and cameras) and some of which aren't. Can anyone confirm if they will be available in the U.S.? They are here:
http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/index.html
Mouse across the horizontal gray bar and click through for pictures. Anyone read Japanese?
Side mirror light: http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/exterior/image/01-p01.jpg
Security sensor: http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/safe/image/02-p01.jpg
Unknown gadget: http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/function/image/09-p01.jpg
Backup sensors: http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/function/image/11-p01.jpg
Antenna: http://toyota.jp/camry/dop/function/image/07-p01.jpg
CD/DVD Player: http://toyota.jp/dop/navi/lineup/nd3t-w55/index.html
Unknown electronic wizardry: http://toyota.jp/dop/navi/lineup/nhdn-w55g/index.html
Build a 2007 Camry
(Or it could be a typo).
Build a 2007 Camry "
I wouldn't trust any of those numbers. The overall pricing and especially the option packages are all off (some of the options they list are actually standard with the 2007).
Fully loaded, it is likely to be a $30K car (loaded 2006 Camry XLE/I-4 was about $26.5K).
Also in my experience, 100 miles doesn't cut it. You really need to go through a full tank of gas to get a more accurate reading (even better, several tankfuls).
~alpha
Driving truly sporty :shades: ,
MidCow
I've already put a down payment for the Camry hybrid at the closest dealer that has a policy of not charging premiums for hybrids! Looking forward to a loaded model (any color except the metallic light green) and having them swap the rims out for a set of 17" SE alloys.
Regarding the gas mileage conversations, my current vehicle ('02 MB C230 Kompressor) is only supposed to get 28MPG and I routinely achieve an average of 29MPG in mostly highway driving (85%). And that's still going a few MPH over the speed limit. To me the greatest appeal of the hybrid is not worrying about mileage going down the tubes when you see a traffic jam, or when you have to drive in the city....oh and the electric drive will be ever so quiet....Plus all those cool options that would have made a diesel VW Passat hit $40K...
So sorry if my ramble is just that, but I look forward to interacting with everyone here. Hit me up if you have questions, as an engineer/scientist I have researched the snot out of this topic and can probably give you a link or a solid researched fact or 2. - Chris
You will see my nick all over this and the Hybrid forums. I too am 'sold' on the HSD concept along with future development. I've been selling them since their inception here in 2001 and just 'sold' myself a Prius although I consider myself a Camry owner ( since 1989 ) at heart.
Some places of interest if you havent already discovered them on your own.
Hybrid Highlander, Prius 2004+ and the Hybrid/Diesel forums here. There is lot's of good info from existing owners in addition to all the 'give and take' here which is good for understanding other's concerns;
wikipedia .. search on 'hybrid synergy drive'
greenhybrid.com
priuschat.com
Bob