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2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Well their wheelbase was around 100", and overall length was about 165". So yeah, definitely subcompact.
Today, it will get 22-25 miles to the gallon and because of the suspension height and small tires it goes off road just fine. And does up to 50 mph on the road
It could go just about anywhere 99% of these SUVs could go.
Remember, when this thing was built there were virtually no asphalt or concrete roads in America.
With all the supposed technology today....
We cannot build a 4wd today thats gets better gas mileage than a model T?
Please...
We are high on horsepower...
I'm surprised it got 5 stars in that side impact, look at the intrusion.
I'm surprised about that, too. I figured a smaller, lighter car would do better in a rollover test, since you don't have all that weight crushing down on the roof. I guess something else could have happened though, like the crash test dummy's head coming into hard contact with some part inside the car that could have dealt a serious injury to a live person?
I've noticed a similar thing in the frontal crash tests, where sometimes the car itself looks like it held up really well, but the seatbelts just didn't do a good job keeping the dummy in place, so it bounced around and hit the door sill or roof pillar or some other hard object.
it is probably not obvious to those who have different life styles.
After reading your post, I ask myself this question: If it's used for a long distance trip. Why not use a large sedan or crossover which in many cases saves quite a bit of fuel due to the lighter weight and more aero bodystyle?
One response as to why not to use a sedan or crossover, is if one is driving over particularly rough terrain. Say perhaps a trip to Alaska.
So yes, while it could be argued or justified in a wide variety of ways, I do believe that the mainstream driving public sees so many SUVs as nothing more that todays' version of the typical Mom's Minivan for Soccer trips, used on smooth paved roads, that they've lost sight of the group of people for whom the SUV is truly useful and being used accordingly.
Finally when I look around the city I live in, the enormous amount of SUV's being driven in the city are largely examples of those young men (and some not so young) that have very small egos, suffer from insecurites, all of which demand a large vehicle so as to make themselves feel strong, confident, whole and in charge. So sad, that it takes a 40k to 60k vehicle to accomplish that. There are more H2 hummers on the road here than I would have ever imagined.
Conversely, it puts a very broad smile on my face when we meet up at the local gas station as I watch their bill for fuel exceed $130, when mine's less than $70. in todays economy, the price to feed ones ego, is very high.
Cheers
WANT AN ECONOMY VEHICLE OR A TANK CANT HAVE BOTH
I first drove to Alaska in '73 in a VW Bug back when the Alcan was gravel. It's all paved now and I've driven it in three wagons, a compact Tercel and two minivans.
Now, you may need an SUV if you live in Maine. (AP)
I actually saw one in my little SE Arizona cowtown the other day. It took a left at the busiest intersection in town and headed uphill towards the I-10 on ramp/switchchange.
Perhaps if one loved VW Beetle's in their hey-day and wanted to re-live some of the glory they could nab one of these mini-cars. Did I read that it weighs some 2,300 lbs.? Or was that only 1,800 lbs.? Too heavy, but that no doubt helps it in it's endeavours to pass crash testing.
Oh, the magazine article mentioned that there is a Smart Cabriolet. The C&D testers didn't particularly like getting the car in to the top-down mode, though. Didn't exactly go smoothly. But it eventually worked, exposing small, stick-like C-pillars, but it was an actual Smart-vertible. Weird little rig, it really is. Too small for this padre, but, I don't dislike it. The Mitsubishi i-MIEV all-electric under development doesn't look all that much bigger, but if I pulled dimensions on both cars I have a feeling the i-MIEV would dwarf the SmartFor by quite a few feet, not just by quite a few inches.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Last August, two friends and I went out to Cedar Point in Ohio, in a 2006 Xterra 4wd. Fuel economy averaged about 20 mpg. About 3 years ago, the three of us went down to Florida in my 2000 Intrepid, and on that trip probably averaged about 27.5 mpg. We ended up taking about as much luggage both times. I'd say that the only advantage to the Xterra was that we could reach the cooler in the back, so we could get food and drinks out of it without stopping. With the Intrepid, we had to not only stop, but partially unload the trunk to get to the cooler!
Dunno if that little bonus was worth the mileage penalty, though!
Your V-6 sedan used about 25% more gas than my Matrix would have, and the Matrix would also have provided good seating for four and access to the cooler in back.
And if you all could have fit in the Echo, you would have saved another 30% in fuel. The SUV used 125% more fuel on that trip than the Echo would have.
Wow.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Waitaminute...if I'm doing the math right, then presuming the Xterra's averaging 20 mpg, wouldn't that mean the Echo would be averaging about 45 mpg? I don't think I'd be getting 45 mpg given the circumstances...speeds averaging 65-75 mph with occasional bursts up to 80-85 (the 5-speed automatic in that Xterra keeps the revs down and makes you feel like you're going slower than you are, so it's easy to lose track of speed). Constant use of the a/c. And three people on board with a boatload of luggage.
To do another comparison, about a year ago, I drove my uncle's '03 Corolla up to PA and back. I drove it pretty gently, just about pure highway driving, no a/c use, and averaged about 37.4 mpg. Last October I made the same trip in my Intrepid, and got about 31 mpg. So in this case, the Intrepid used about 20% more fuel than the Corolla. Which sounds pretty substantial on the surface...until you realize that it comes out to a difference of about 1.1 gallons per 200 miles
I also did that trip in my '85 Silverado the following weekend. It got about 18 mpg. :lemon:
Consider this, a comparison of:
"Cars We Own" from the list of subcompacts being discussed in this thread, as compared to the "Other Cars We Own or have Owned".
Therefore we would be reading _True Stories_ from the people that own them as opposed to speculation based on road tests or other second hand sources of info.
Especially since as we all know there is a huge difference between reading the road tests, and actually owning the vehicle and living with it.
It's this very type of dialog which would enlighten all of us as to the "real differences" the pros and cons. After all there is much more to consider here than "just the mileage factor".
Perhaps we call it functionality or useability or some such term that clearly identifies how, where and why, we are using the various "other" vehicles. Ones that may be larger and not as fuel efficient as the "new subcompacts we own". By continuing the discussion in this direction, it would create a very stimulating environment from which to draw new ideas.
Cheers! ....
I am confident that with constant A/C use, at those speeds, with your three buddies, I would see 45 mpg and in fact I am fairly confident I could beat that figure. That was a conservative estimate for the sake of discussion.
Now would your three adult male buddies be happy on a long trip in the Echo? I would think the two in the back would be wanting to switch with the two in the front at fairly short intervals! So the Matrix was a better example for group trips.
But for long trips with just you or just you and a passenger aboard, the Echo has enough interior space to get comfortable and save a bunch of gas.
And with the new Yaris, even that caveat has been erased - as small as it looks, the back seat is now much more spacious than the Echo's was. They added a few inches to the wheelbase (and 200 pounds to the curb weight) in order to accomplish that.
Footnote: the Corolla's EPA numbers make it appear that its mileage is almost identical to the Yaris/Echo's, but in real world use the smaller models are producing some fantastic figures and very few below 35, whereas many Corolla drivers report much lower numbers. It is much harder in the Corolla to get those 40-plus mpg numbers, even though both are rated around 35 (both were previously rated 41) for highway use. So Corolla is not your best example for how efficient small cars can be, even though it probably is the most efficient in the compact class. the thing is, there's a whole (BETTER ;-)) class below compacts...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How does the Civic "real world" mileage compare to its EPA estimates? I don't know what it's rated at these days, but I remember the 2006-2007 numbers had it at 30 city/40 highway for the automatic. I remember being really impressed by that. While it's really not much better than the 30/38 my uncle's Corolla was rated at, I found the Civic to be a lot more comfortable.
I've sat in stuff like the Yaris, xA, Fit, Echo, etc at car shows, and they're just too cramped for my tastes, so I think the Civic is about as small as I could reasonably go. One of my coworkers briefly had a 2009 Corolla S. I sat behind the wheel one day, and it definitely felt more comfortable than my uncle's '03. Legroom was still tight, but the seat felt more substantial, and a bit higher off the floor, which helped. The steering wheel also telescoped, which was nice.
Unfortunately, my coworker went through pickup truck withdrawal with the Corolla. He traded an '04 Tundra on it, and just couldn't get used to it. So last week he traded on a brand-new Tundra with the 5.7! :surprise:
Oh, I do have to confess a certain fondness for the Nissan Versa. I still like the driving position of the Civic better, though. The Versa would be an awesome car to be chauferred around in, though. Backseat legroom felt a lot better than many midsized and even some so-called full-sized cars!
But the real improvement is the back seat if you get the optional interior package(comfort package or similar, IIRC). This gives you a reclining and sliding rear seat that is far more spacious when slid back PLUS has more headroom as well than in a Matix(!). It fits four adults quite comfortably, which is astounding. There's no shoulder room, so essentially a 2+2. Quite an amazing little car, and in Canada and elsewhere, where they sell the 4 door version(why not in the U.S.???), it is a far better can than the Fit/Jazz for many people.
P.S. The reason the Fit/Jazz sells so well in Europe is that it can be had with a better TDI engine than the Yaris. Most everyone buys this model. In the U.S., the Fit is kind of a red headed stepchild. Not quite frugal enough, not quite inexpensive enough.
We have even taken entire road trips with 2 families in the van. Once to Dutch Wonderland in PA, and twice to Ocean City, MD.
On both occasions we would have had to take 2 compact cars to fit both familes, because at least 7 people went on each of those 3 trips.
The van returns about 26-28mpg with a heavy load like that, so I doubt even a pair of Prius hybrids would beat the people carrying efficiency of a loaded minivan.
This statement above is somewhat contrary to my personal experience. However as we all know, driving habits play a big part, in the mileage returned.
I have both an 07 Corollla and 08 Yaris hatchback. The Corolla has 10 k on the odometer, and Yaris has 7 k, both automatics.
Due to the fact that both of these cars are far more comfortable that they often get credit for, the four of us, Mom, Dad, son, and daugther were riding along, thus the same load in both cars. The kids are 6 & 8 yrs old.
I tested them carefully (on the same 255 mile round trip route to grandma's house) while duplicating my driving style as close as possible to negate "driver influence" . Also just for sake of satisfying my (admittedly OCD personality ) I performed these two comparison runs using the same fuel pump at the same gas station to fill up immediately before the test and immediately after the test. One run was made on Saturday, the next run on Sunday. Both in clear weather and maintaining an average speed on the freeway of 72mph. About 21 miles of each trip was in city driving, the balance on the freeway.
The result?
Corolla trip mpg = 39
Yaris trip mpg = 46
Numbers that I'm very happy with.
Finally after it's all said and done, my long time experience with over 14 different Toyota models, I've owned over a log period of time, from Avalons, Highlanders, Tundras, Camrys, Corolla's and now Yaris, the bottom line is this in the one make (of many in my collection) that continuously costs the least to own over a period of five years or longer.
Now throw a small turbo diesel 4 cylinder into the equation and then the situation changes. Now that motor can make decent torque right off idle and pull in high gear at low rpms.
Very few people have those driving patterns and habits, and the rest will get much closer to 20 mpg in the Vette. In-town use, especially for short trips, is where that big honkin' V-8 will hurt you no matter HOW lazily it operates in the rev range.
Under those conditions, the Yaris drivers will still be getting 35 or better and using half the gas.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Compare the 'vette to a Honda Insight, perhaps, and you'd have comparable interior space.
The Insight would meet your target MPG, too.
Having said that, making engines smaller has diminishing returns. Even with a tiny 1.5 liters of displacement, they have to push the same number of airbags and mandatory safety equipment that the Corvette does with 6+ liters.
As I've said before - if you don't have a diesel in your range; your European range is incomplete.
My nearest neighbours have the following diesels : Saab 9-5, Ford Focus, Ford Galaxy (MPV), Renault Laguna, Audi A8, Mercedes E and C, old Land Rover and Toyota RAV4 plus my Volvo S60. The other cars are smaller gassers : Citroen Aygo, Peugeot 206, 2 x Honda Jazz (Fit) and an old Renault Clio. Oh and a 20 year old Mercedes S500 which is wonderfully inappropriate.
Is the GXP going to get the 7.0 liter V-8? That sounds like it would be a wild ride!
Actually, given the size of the engine, I think the G8's pretty impressive. The EPA has it rated at 15/24, with the 6.0/automatic. In comparison, a Corvette with the 6.2/automatic is rated at 15/25. It's rated at 16/26 with the 6.2/manual, and the 7.0/manual is rated at 15/24.
I'm sure those figures drop pretty quickly once you start having some fun with all that power, though.
Unfortunately, AN classifies cars by starting price range, not by size, so the Fit gets thrown in with the larger compact cars (Cobalt, Focus, Sentra, Elantra, Corolla/Matrix, etc). But the Fit was up by the same % as the other subs from what I remember reading from Honda.
The article also mentions that among what it calls "sporty cars", the Mini Cooper was one of only three (out of 33 models in that group) to be up in sales. They call it a sporty car, I call it a subcompact! ;-)
Compact and midsize cars? Down by about 2.5% each. And as we know, large car sales TANKED. As did SUVs (down 24%), pick-ups (down another 15% even from 2007's dismal performance), and minivans (down 20% - Toyota, Honda, and Chrysler now dominate this segment with 80% of all minivan sales between them).
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/ANA06/804140311/-1
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How did the Sienna and Ody do compared to their own sales last year? I doubt they were really down 20% model by model.
Odyssey sales have dropped by single-digit percentages for the first quarter, if my fuzzy memory is serving me well. I know Honda just put a lease incentive on Odyssey because of dropping sales. Sienna sales are strong enough that Toyota is considering giving Sienna production more factory space, taking up some now being used to build Tundras that nobody is buying...
The 20% drop in minivan sales can be attributed almost solely to the fact that Dodge isn't dumping half a million SWB Caravans per year into the rental fleets any more...by 1-1-07, Ford and GM minivan sales were pretty much bust already, so they had very little effect on the YTD comparisons between this year and last.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Honda has lowered prices on the Ody, I know because they're much lower now than they were in May 2007 when I was minivan shopping.
The lower prices have helped them gain market share within the segment, though.
Dodge Journey
Subcompacts anyone? Anyone?
Sienna prices are about on par with last year. Ody prices are down.
I can't tell you why Ody sales are down and Sienna's are not. It should be the other way around. :confuse:
Yaris sales are more than TWICE what Toyota forecast when it introduced that model. ;-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think I will wait until next year when the Ford Fiesta comes over. If it stays true to the pictures I have seen and the price is in the ball park of the other sub-compacts I think Ford may have a winner. I just have to make sure 3 kids fit in the back with reasonable comfort.