My old 1995 Chevy Beretta, while a good car in many respects, had not only the annoying speed-sensitive locks and the irritating daytime running lights, but offered as standard perhaps the stangest seatbelt design ever...
The belts were mounted on the door frame, with the tensioners/reels within the door itself. The idea was that you were supposed to leave the seatbelts buckled at all times. You could then open the door and slide in or out, since the belt system moved with the door.
Well, you can't entirely blame GM or the many other automakers who had these things for this one.
Beginning around 1989, the feds imposed a law that required new cars to have some sort of passive restraint system. That meant either having an airbag, or else providing passive belts.
A lot of automakers did not offer air bags when the law first went into effective, so they made do with these passive belts for the first few years as an interim measure before they were able to install airbags into subsequent designs. GM seems to have taken longer to have made the move in the case of that class of car.
"So your saying a BMW or VW are probably the safest all around cars in the world ???? hmmmmmm....interesting
Nope, not saying that at all. I used those two cars as a reference to show that some companies are engineering in devices to prevent car doors from opening upon impact. Said another way, I'm quite sure that there are many other companies doing similar types of engineering.
When posting, I simply try to stay within the bounds of what I know, hence my reference to BMW and VW. If I stray into areas where I think I know something, usually I will qualify that fact by saying something like, "To the best of my knowledge..." or "If I recall correctly...".
I think we will get back to that eventually, but not for awhile I think.
Back in the day, the ala carte ordering of features was made possible by the lack of a need for total manufacturing efficiency. These days, it would vastly increase production costs to allow customers to pick out individual features...hence the options packages.
But I think with the advances in manufacturing technology, it'll eventually be robust enough to allow consumers to order a totally custom car without incurring huge additional production costs. The technology just isn't there yet. But one day...
But re the Mustangs, Ford does have a recent history of offering what you seek...during the 1980s/1990s, they were called the "LX 5.0s", and in the mid-1990s, they were the "GTS" models. Basically stripper cars but with all the performance hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford does that again with the S197 Mustang (they already have a racer-in-the-raw version you can buy, but it's not street-legal).
speaking of back in the day, when I was into the Mustang hobby and reading the parts catalogs, magazines and the like, there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 a la carte options that you could get on your Pony. Everything from tissue dispenser to spotlights.
Agreed that those days are long gone, but a few stand alone options would be nice. I.E. ability to set alloy wheels without having to get leather, navi, etc as part of a 2800 package.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
"Agreed that those days are long gone, but a few stand alone options would be nice. I.E. ability to set alloy wheels without having to get leather, navi, etc as part of a 2800 package."
Perhaps if the factories just cranked out basic stripped versions (or a few models which were differentiated by only those options which HAD to be installed by the factory) and then offered large catalogs of additional parts (performance or otherwise) which could be installed by the dealer.
That way you could order the exact car you wanted and the factory could ship the basic car with all the added options to be installed by the dealer.
that would be a pretty good idea, back then I believe most of the smaller trim type options were dealer installed. Even some of the performance related ones, if I'm not mistaken.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
With respect to Mustangs anyway, Ford actually does have a way to offer tons of options ala cart like in the old days. It's just that they're no longer from the factory or sold over-the-counter at (most) dealers, but rather through the Ford Racing Performance Parts (FRPP) catalog.
The FRPP catalog is even beginning to offer packages that mimic what one could factory-order on Mustangs in days gone by. One that comes to mind is the reemergence of the "drag pack" option, now available through FRPP for the '05 and up Mustangs. :shades:
There's no warranty with this stuff for now, but that may change.
a new Camry this weekend from my local Toyota dealer, and one feature it has that used to irritate me because it wasn't well executed now seems to have been improved a lot: auto sound level for the stereo. It gets louder by itself when you get on the highway (to counteract the higher ambient noise levels at speed), and drops down when you come to a stop. It has three ranges too that you can choose from - the middle level was perfect for me.
That model lacks another feature that I quite like - auto up windows. I prefer cranks most of the time, but if I am going to have power windows then darn it - make them go up and down automatically! What's with this only for the driver stuff?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I really wouldn't know. There are no external markings to indicate who the radio is made by, and I am definitely not the expert on those types of things. I wouldn't think Toyota would be using Delphi for stereos though. Maybe, since the Camry is manufactured here.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
LOL. Well one could contact the Toyota website I suppose. :P They also could ask there local dealerships parts department and where they get em from :P
I have one. I considered it frivilous when purchased; it was jusst a part of a large group of options on my LeSabre. I like it. You can tell you speed without looking at the numbers; your peripheral vision catches part of the digit and you know the speed before you look. It needs to have more info in the display-i.e., warnings for oil, temp, etc. Otherwise you need to check your dash some.
It's odd that now the other companies will take the US invention and run with it as if it were their creation.
The best salesman hoopla I've ever heard is that the motor drops out of Toyota's Camry and Corollas if the motor catches on fire. This is what the salesman told the 60-something friend shopping for her next new car.
Someone said it's the insulation on the hood that drops after the plastic holders melt away! Now that's a real feature.
State Farm: We would have replaced your car, but since the insulation fell down on top of the motor after it was burning for a while, we've decided to repair your car due to the reduced damage.
Me: What!!!!
Now that's a feature. Somehow I suspect the hood insulation on my LeSabres will fall after the motor catches fire--but for Toyota salesman, it's a feature.
are just like almost all salesmen - full of it. Who knows if it's even true, but if it is, I doubt Toyota Motor considers it a "feature" of their cars.
Folding outside mirrors are a feature even the new Camry still does not have. Noticed that the other day. I rather like those. If you bump them going through the drive-thru, they don't snap off if they fold. :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I can just hear Mercedes' ad about power folding mirrors that pull in when they sense an impending crash to protect the mirrors and protect other persons involve in the crash. They'll probably have multiple rates of pull in to match the type of crash the vehicle senses. Grin.
power folding mirrors may be a bit much to hope for in a midsize passenger car, just yet. It's mainly a large-truck thing - they need it more, because often they just barely fit where you are trying to park them, making frequent folding-in of the mirrors mandatory.
But having read the recent posts, I guess Mercedes is including them in their sedans now? So I suppose it is just a matter of time. Personally, there are other features I would like to see in Camrys before they put in power folding mirrors.
One "feature" that went missing from the last gen Camry to the current one, is a full-size spare. With the last model, they trumpeted the full-size spare in advertising and on the Monroney sticker. I guess nobody cared, because with the current model they quietly went back to the temp spare on all trims. :surprise:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now THAT'S a feature I would pay NOT to have. People ride in your car, don't know about that feature, slam the doors, and break it. Passengers can be hard on your car in lots of ways.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
No no, I am probably wrong. You are probably right. They should have designed the thing with door-slamming in mind. At least, let's hope! :-P
I was remember the Cadillacs back in the day with the power trunk closers. You get a friend that doesn't know about it and slams the trunk, and the mechanism wasn't too hard to break. I had a friend whose dad had one, and he would always say you have to keep your friends out of your trunk!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
How long do you guys think it will be before we have cars that drive themselves ? I am amazed how far we've came along. Lexus has the LS and it parks itself with little human intervention. :surprise:
I suppose people like rorr, would beable to relax on long trips to the mountains.
No car of mine will drive itself. I like driving too much. One of the biggest attractions for me to go to the mountains is that it is FURTHER than the beach; hence, more driving.
Maybe that's why I'm not a big fan of gadgets; I neither need nor want all that stuff to dilute the experience of driving. I even prefer the pedal/steering feel of manual brakes/steering over PB/PS. Yes, I'm that archaic.
Nope, the driving dynamics between Lexus and MB are very different.
I wonder if they've ever driven or ridden in either or both cars.
MBs can be bland, but Lexus takes the cake. Most are 4 wheeled iso-tanks...great if that's what one wants, but many don't, which is why Lexus doesn't rule the luxo roost.
I think most of the world agrees, hence sales patterns. You can spend hours in London, Paris, Berlin, etc and never see a Lecus. I don't know how many LS they could sell at S-class prices.
Comments
The belts were mounted on the door frame, with the tensioners/reels within the door itself. The idea was that you were supposed to leave the seatbelts buckled at all times. You could then open the door and slide in or out, since the belt system moved with the door.
Well, you can't entirely blame GM or the many other automakers who had these things for this one.
Beginning around 1989, the feds imposed a law that required new cars to have some sort of passive restraint system. That meant either having an airbag, or else providing passive belts.
A lot of automakers did not offer air bags when the law first went into effective, so they made do with these passive belts for the first few years as an interim measure before they were able to install airbags into subsequent designs. GM seems to have taken longer to have made the move in the case of that class of car.
So your saying a BMW or VW are probably the safest all around cars in the world ???? hmmmmmm....interesting
Rocky
Nope, not saying that at all. I used those two cars as a reference to show that some companies are engineering in devices to prevent car doors from opening upon impact. Said another way, I'm quite sure that there are many other companies doing similar types of engineering.
When posting, I simply try to stay within the bounds of what I know, hence my reference to BMW and VW. If I stray into areas where I think I know something, usually I will qualify that fact by saying something like, "To the best of my knowledge..." or "If I recall correctly...".
Best Regards,
Shipo
Back in the day, the ala carte ordering of features was made possible by the lack of a need for total manufacturing efficiency. These days, it would vastly increase production costs to allow customers to pick out individual features...hence the options packages.
But I think with the advances in manufacturing technology, it'll eventually be robust enough to allow consumers to order a totally custom car without incurring huge additional production costs. The technology just isn't there yet. But one day...
But re the Mustangs, Ford does have a recent history of offering what you seek...during the 1980s/1990s, they were called the "LX 5.0s", and in the mid-1990s, they were the "GTS" models. Basically stripper cars but with all the performance hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if Ford does that again with the S197 Mustang (they already have a racer-in-the-raw version you can buy, but it's not street-legal).
Agreed that those days are long gone, but a few stand alone options would be nice. I.E. ability to set alloy wheels without having to get leather, navi, etc as part of a 2800 package.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
Perhaps if the factories just cranked out basic stripped versions (or a few models which were differentiated by only those options which HAD to be installed by the factory) and then offered large catalogs of additional parts (performance or otherwise) which could be installed by the dealer.
That way you could order the exact car you wanted and the factory could ship the basic car with all the added options to be installed by the dealer.
Just a thought.....
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
The FRPP catalog is even beginning to offer packages that mimic what one could factory-order on Mustangs in days gone by. One that comes to mind is the reemergence of the "drag pack" option, now available through FRPP for the '05 and up Mustangs. :shades:
There's no warranty with this stuff for now, but that may change.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109881
:shades:
Hope we get to see it here
Rocky
Or worst, from some points of view. More ways to distract the driver from what he's supposed to be doing...sigh.
Where's Michael Knights ol' buddy K.I.T.T. when ya need him :P
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/AUTO01/606070356/- 1148
Rocky
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/AUTO03/606070334/- 1148/AUTO01
Lemko a must have feature for the Caddy's
Rocky
Rocky
I laughed =]
WOW the return of the electric car might replace the hybrid :surprise:
Rocky
That model lacks another feature that I quite like - auto up windows. I prefer cranks most of the time, but if I am going to have power windows then darn it - make them go up and down automatically! What's with this only for the driver stuff?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
With its voice recognition technology you can control the window function via voice command. :P
problem solved by rockylee
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Without ripping the stereo out of their brand new car, of course! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
Rocky
It's odd that now the other companies will take the US invention and run with it as if it were their creation.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Someone said it's the insulation on the hood that drops after the plastic holders melt away! Now that's a real feature.
State Farm: We would have replaced your car, but since the insulation fell down on top of the motor after it was burning for a while, we've decided to repair your car due to the reduced damage.
Me: What!!!!
Now that's a feature. Somehow I suspect the hood insulation on my LeSabres will fall after the motor catches fire--but for Toyota salesman, it's a feature.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Folding outside mirrors are a feature even the new Camry still does not have. Noticed that the other day. I rather like those. If you bump them going through the drive-thru, they don't snap off if they fold. :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
I bump our folding mirrors walking between the two cars in the garage and they make bump away. Now that's another good feature.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
But having read the recent posts, I guess Mercedes is including them in their sedans now? So I suppose it is just a matter of time. Personally, there are other features I would like to see in Camrys before they put in power folding mirrors.
One "feature" that went missing from the last gen Camry to the current one, is a full-size spare. With the last model, they trumpeted the full-size spare in advertising and on the Monroney sticker. I guess nobody cared, because with the current model they quietly went back to the temp spare on all trims. :surprise:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
I like the auto closing doors on Benz's
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
I was remember the Cadillacs back in the day with the power trunk closers. You get a friend that doesn't know about it and slams the trunk, and the mechanism wasn't too hard to break. I had a friend whose dad had one, and he would always say you have to keep your friends out of your trunk!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rocky
And also, WW for tires. "R, H & WW".
I suppose people like rorr, would beable to relax on long trips to the mountains.
Rocky
Rocky
Maybe that's why I'm not a big fan of gadgets; I neither need nor want all that stuff to dilute the experience of driving. I even prefer the pedal/steering feel of manual brakes/steering over PB/PS. Yes, I'm that archaic.
Nope, the driving dynamics between Lexus and MB are very different.
MBs can be bland, but Lexus takes the cake. Most are 4 wheeled iso-tanks...great if that's what one wants, but many don't, which is why Lexus doesn't rule the luxo roost.
I agree a Mercedes is a drivers bank vault. I'd love to own one because nothing else offers that solid feel like a MB.
Rocky
I am sure Lexus feels pretty solid too...just hard to look at and boring to drive.
Rocky
Rocky