Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Volkswagen Passat Sludge Issues
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
......Unless of course he lied to me.
I suspect that these cars are not maintained right but it is just me.
Krzys
If you watched "Fawlty Towers" you should get it ;-)
I have 2003 VW Passat 1.8T and I was using Mobil 0W40 from start. The way I read the manual 5W40 was suggested but not required. There are no mineral oils that are 5W40 and 0W40 sounded good enough for me and Mobil 1 is quite good brand.
1 year later VW mailed info about sludge along with new page for manual that says that oils meeting VW502.00 spec are the only ones to be used in 1.8T. It also had a page with list of oils meeting the spec. Mobil 1 0W40 was present.
When I bought my Passat I talked to service writer about oil. I was told that they use 5W30 bulk oil for my car.
I have never come without my own oil for an oil change.
I bought it at Walmart or Auto Zone without much problem.
Krzys
PS Have you read about Toyota sludge? New engines are designed for better oils than the old ones. In Europe it is not unique to have 20000km OCI (suggested by manufacturer). Roughly 13000 miles.
I suspect dealer network is much tighter controlled than in the US. US dealers can mismaintain vehicles and manufacturer is still hold accountable.
Not to mention that VW original manual seems to be written by marketing guys. I bet engineers worded their recommendation as "required" but marketing gurus decided that "synthetic oil required" did not look good.
plp
What oil were you using? Have you received "sludge letter" from VW?
What oil were you using?
Krzys
Anyway, I have all the receipts except for two from April 2004 until now. I have nothing from May 2002(when we bought the car) until April 2004. They could be with my xh or in the trash.
I was using whatever Jiffy Lube and the dealer put in. I only went to the dealer twice and had an oil change done there because we happened to be in the area. Otherwise, Jiffy Lube is right down the road and I usually got it done on my way home from work.
I never did receive a letter from VW and I only heard about the problem when I took my car to the mechanic.
Like anything else, some are competent, some ain't. The good news (sort of) is that your local Jiffy Lube might could very well have a complete service history for every time they touched your car. Ditto your dealer.
The problem here is that some dealers and many Jiffy Lubes consistently used the wrong (read inferior) oil for VW and Audi engines, and as such, producing the invoices might be a double edged sword as they most likely list the kind of oil used.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Shipo
What synthetic oil are you using? Does it meet VW specification?
Krzys
PS My understanding is that if you use VW502.00 (some say use newer VW spec 503.00 or 503.01) and 5K interval then there should be no sludge.
So, all oils that are either Group III or Group IV can be advertised as being "Fully Synthetic", however, many (if not most) folks maintain that only Group IV oils are True Synthetic oils.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I haven't been to a Quick Lube place in years and I don't intend to go there.
My advice - AVOID the quick lube places like the plague.
I have a long commute, thus the high miles and LOTS of expensive oil changes...for nothing? Still had same sludge issue.
Does VW publish a list of oils which DO meet their spec's and will not sludge with 5000 mile changes? Sorry for the novice questions - I did not know what I was getting into with the Turbo engine and thought I was doing the best I could to mitigate the sludging issue.
Mobil 1 EP, regardless of weight class, does not meet the VW 502.00 spec for your engine.
"Does VW publish a list of oils which DO meet their spec's and will not sludge with 5000 mile changes?"
Yes, but I don't have the link on hand.
"Sorry for the novice questions - I did not know what I was getting into with the Turbo engine and thought I was doing the best I could to mitigate the sludging issue."
No worries. You were headed in the correct direction and just missed the mark by a little. There are a number of oils that meet the VW 502.00 oil spec on the market. Check out the web site of your favorite oil supplier and you will probably find at least one oil that meets the spec.
With the above in mind, you couldn't pay me to use a 502.00 oil in the 1.8T. Why? Because VW has since come out with a far more stringent oil spec numbered 503.01. That oil is a superset of the old 502.00 spec, and as such, all oils that are 503.01 certified are also certified to meet 502.00. To the best of my knowledge, the only two oils widely available here in North America that are certified to meet the 503.01 oil spec are Mobil 1 0W-40 and German made (says "Made in Germany" right on the label) Castrol Syntec 0W-30.
The good news for you at least, is that both of the 503.01 oils listed above cost less than the Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 that you've been using. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
P.S.
If you read all hundred plus posts in this discussion as well as the hundred or so at the following link, you will become very well versed in what you need to do for the care and feeding of your car. ;-)
pat, "Volkswagen Passat Oil Changes & Issues" #1, 13 Mar 2006 11:52 am
"Does VW publish a list of oils which DO meet their spec's and will not sludge with 5000 mile changes?"
Yes, but I don't have the link on hand.
Here's the link:
http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/objects/pdf/service_maint/oilchart.pdf
As indicated in the chart, not all oils are available in North America ("hey, I'll take 4 quarts of the ole Ravensberger Schmierstoffvertrieb, please!").
Further, not all listed oils are 502.00 compliant in North America. Specifically, the list shows Valvoline 5w-30 as being compliant - it is, but only the European product. Here in the US it is not per Valvoline's webiste and an email exchange I had with Valvoline's customer support.
The most readily available oils in my area that meet VW Specs 502.00 are Valvoline's Synpower 5w-40 (also meets 505.00, 505.01) and Mobil 1's 0w-40 (which also meets 505.00 and 503.01). Castrol's Syntec 0w-30 also meets 502.00, 505.00 and 503.01, but I can only find it at Autozone (sometimes).
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
Audi List of 502.00 Oils
oil in cooling system, flushed using liquid detergent, system refilled but engine light keeps coming on for low coolant, Engine temp guage is reading 190, could low coolant sensor be clogged , where is it located ?
Is it easy to change thermostat?
Thanks
Thermostat is not easy to change.
Did you find out why and correct the problem with oil into the coolant?
What I don't get in all of this is how/why you blame Volkswagon for the problems. :confuse:
Best Regards,
Shipo
Hope this helps you all-
What do you use now?
Krzys
Timely oil changes with what? Do your receipts prove that the folks who changed your oil used synthetic oil that meets the VW 502.00 oil standard? If they don't then you're probably out of luck as your car was lubricated with substandard oil.
"...2 additional mechanics who tell me that all of this is due to the sludge. What I don't understand is how VW can not post a recall when they are fully aware of the problem??? Anybody got an answer for that?"
The extra warranty they've offered on the 1.8T engines requires both timely oil changes and proper oil. As a general rule (and many folks here can support this), if you used proper oil, you engine won't sludge.
"Oh, and by the way, I priced out the parts for this repair, and I can buy it all for $260!!!!! What do they think we are? Total idiots!"
Chances are pretty good that if your engine is truely sludged, you need far more than $260 in parts (not to mention LOTS of labor) to repair the car.
Best Regards,
Shipo
No, the flush won't "fix" anything, what it will do (supposedly) is remove much of the sludge that is threatening the life of your engine.
"I am fortunate that VW is paying the tab on this repair, but quite frankly, that is the least they can do after inflicting this disaster of an engine on the public."
That's a bit extreme. As many owners will attest, if you (or the original owner) had maintained it per the VWoA recommendations, it wouldn't have sludged in the first place. There are folks on this board that have over 100,000 sludge free miles on their 1.8T engines, and all they did was follow the oil specification guidelines and made sure that oil met the VW 502.00 or the even more stringent 503.01 oil specs.
"Has anyone had any experience with this repair? What is the long term prognosis for this engine after the "flush". I am trying to decide whether to keep the car or not, and your feedback may help me decide."
I have yet to hear of this procedure, however, if it is truly approved by VW (unverified at this point), and does in the end remove the sludge clogging up critical components, then your engine should be in pretty good shape. From here on in, just make sure that A) you use the proper oil, and you have said oil changed often enough. Do that and you should be good to go for a long-long time.
"I have lost confidence in the car in particular and volkswagon in general. I will never purchase another of their vehicles."
I've got to tell you, that almost smacks of you blaming VW for what sounds like your (or the original owner's) incorrect and/or insufficient maintenance habits. Yes, no? If that's the case then I'm having a difficult time understanding your rancor.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Back to my question, does this repair work ???
Reading between the lines here, it sounds like you had your car serviced at your local dealership, and they put crap oil in your engine. Since you've (apparently) been able to prove that the car was serviced "on schedule", then the only remaining issue is the quality of the oil used at each change. My bet is that they (your dealer and not VW) know very well that the sludging is their fault and they are offering you this free sludge removal process. Personally, I'm more than a bit skeptical that this is going to work as I have yet to hear of this process, and I've been following this issue for a number of years now.
Were I in your shoes, I'd do a couple of things:
1) Go through your oil service receipts and log exactly what kind of oil was put in your engine. If the receipts don't specifically indicate that (and they may very well not), then I would ask your dealership what kind of oil they use for oil changes. Unless they can prove (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that they've been using 502.00 certified oil in your engine, you've got them on a potentially actionable (from a legal perspective) breach.
2) Once the sludge remediation process is complete and you have your car back, I suggest that you take it to a good independent European car mechanic and have him/her give the engine a quick once over. If there is still evidence of engine sludge, I'd demand a new engine. If your dealership can prove that they used the proper oil, they can most likely have VW pay for the new mill, however, if they cannot (my bet), you can force them to put in a new engine on the grounds that they used inferior oil when servicing your car. That said, you may need the help of a lawyer to emphasize that you are holding them liable for how they serviced your car.
So, does this repair work? Like I wrote above, I'm skeptical to say the least.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am not sure if this is true, but I have heard the sludging has a little to do with the small oil pan used on longitudinally mounted 1.8Ts. That's why the Golfs, Beetles and Jettas do not have the problem (I haven't heard of it anyway). The transverse 1.8T has a bigger oil pan. I used synthetic because I was told by a local VW tuner shop, it extends the life of the turbo. I am glad I listened.
Be warned...if you use synthetic oil after 20,000 miles of petrol based oil, you may experience oil leaks. I have seen this happen to a lot of Audi and VW vehicles with the 1.8T and a few V6s.
Yup, the larger the oil capacity, the fewer times any given unit of oil circulates through the engine the longer it takes that oil to start breaking down.
"I used synthetic because I was told by a local VW tuner shop, it extends the life of the turbo. I am glad I listened."
Yeah, back in the 1980s when Chrysler was the largest producer of turbocharged gasoline engines in the world, I discovered that if you ran Mobil 1, the turbochargers would last indefinitely; however, the folks who didn't take my advice invariably had to have the turbocharger replaced before 70,000 miles (usually a lot before).
"Be warned...if you use synthetic oil after 20,000 miles of petrol based oil, you may experience oil leaks. I have seen this happen to a lot of Audi and VW vehicles with the 1.8T and a few V6s."
Well, that little tidbit has been repeated so often that many folks assume it is gospel, however, there is absolutely zero evidence to support that statement, VW engines or no. Many folks switch to synthetic oil for the first time with over 100,000 miles on their cars and even still they get no leaks.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Heh! I ran mine on 502.00 spec oil from the first oil change, later followed by using 503.00 spec. By 30,000 miles, I had a little seepage at the back of the valve cover. Didn't have anything to do with using synth after using dino juice...had a lot to do with the design and/or installation of the cover, since it's not an uncommon seepage site on the 1.8T.
Which is precisely why I bring my own 503.01 spec oil with me to the dealer at each oil change... :shades:
As a matter of fact, the only time I take my cars to the dealer is when I need an oil change or to have recall or TSB-related work done on it. I have a network of private VW mechanics that I go to for the heavier maintenance jobs that I don't have the tools/facilities for. Otherwise I do the rest of the maintenance myself...
When I called the dealer to set the appt in early 2003, I was given a price that seemed too low for a synth oil change and asked what was used. It was, of course, 5w-30 bulk oil. The dealer never made a recommendation that I consider using synth. So I ran out and found that 502.00 wasn't that easy to find. I ended up using Valvoline Synpower 5w-40 for a couple of oil changes until a couple of my FLAP stores started carrying 0w-40 M1. I've used that ever since, along with the larger OEM filter. I always bring my own oil and I save every oil purchase and oil change receipt like they are religious relics.
I am hoping that, along with giving the engine a few minutes of cooldown after harder driving (it all hilly here, so I pretty much do that every time I pull into the driveway), I will avoid the whole sludge issue.
When I called the dealer to set the appt in early 2003, I was given a price that seemed too low for a synth oil change and asked what was used. It was, of course, 5w-30 bulk oil.
That's exactly what happened to me. That's when I began bringing in my own motor oil - Elf Excellium LDX 5w40 from germanautoparts.com (one of a handful of Group IV (non-hydrocracked PAO based) synthetic oils on VW's approved 502.00 list). Then AutoZone started carrying Castrol Syntec 0w30 (Made in Germany) which is a Group IV motor oil on VW's new 503.01 specification (an improvement over the old 502.00 list). I've been using that ever since.
The only time the factory bulk oil is OK to use is during engine break-in (synthetic's lubrication properties do not make it ideal for breaking in the engine - especially making sure the piston rings wear and seat properly).
After 10,000 - 15,000 miles, it is safe to switch to synthetic.
How many miles did you have on the car at the time you discovered that the dealer used the bulk 5w30 oil? I made that discovery at about the 30,000 mile mark. After switching to 502.00 spec synthetic oil (and 503.01 after that), I haven't experienced
any signs of sludge or engine-related issues.
Using synthetic oil over an extended period of time should gradually clean your engine of whatever sludge residue has been built up (if any).
All receipts are in the glove box.
Krzys
Well, I discovered it at about 4,750 miles, but I discovered it before it went into my engine.
I'm staying under the 5,000 mile recommended OCI. the first 4 changes were using Valvoline's Synpower 5w-40, the rest are with M1 European Formula 0w-40.
My own eyes were evidence enough for me. The cars I saw it happen to had one thing in common...a switch to synthetic oil when they had higher miles. One was my own car. Who knows? I'd rather play it safe though.
Best Regards,
Shipo