Honda Insight MPG-Real World Numbers

spunjorno · November 2010

Next tip -- Drive using only stored battery power (no gasoline) for as long as you can and as frequently as you can. Some of you may have already figured out how to do this. Others may be doing it without even knowing. Here's how to do it, and here's how to tell when you are doing it. (And, no, -- when this happens, the egine doesn't shut off like a Prius does. The gas engine will continue to idle, but won't use gas for propulsion purposes - which means it barely uses any.)

It is relatively easy to do on lower speed roads (i.e. 25 - 30 MPH) and much more difficult to do (or to maintain for any appreciable length of time) on highways. It also needs the hybrid batteries to be at a sufficient charge level.

When you back off the accelerator as I've described in a previous post, and gently reapply, you might notice that the instanteneous bar graph display reaches full (100 MPG) and stays there while you maintain speed. If you look at the needle display on the far right hand side of the dash you'll see that the needle is in the "Assist" area on the top half of the display (the blue area). The means the hybrid batteries are assisting with propulsion. The reason the instantaneous MPG display is full is because you're not using gas for propulsion and only using the batteries. If you quickly page over to another display, you can see what I'm talking about. Go to the display that shows the level of your battery charge. It shows a gas pump, a car, and a battery. There are arrows that show where the power is coming from. At the moment you are only using battery, you will see an arrow out of the battery to the car. But you won't see an arrow out of the gas pump to the car. If you step on the accelerator a little more, or if you've keep doing this to the point where the battery depleats and can no longer supply the needed power, you'll feel the engine change slightly (it will feel a little like a gear shift). At that point, you are back to using gas for propulsion, the arrow will point out of the gas pump towards the car on the battery display, the instanteneous MPG display will no longer show full, and the needle on the far right display will return to the middle or green area (unless you're trying to accelerate, in which case it may stay in the blue area).

More about this later. Let me know if you've found this on your own or if its new to you.

carchiel · November 2010

Aha, because this is new to me. This makes perfect sense, though I didn't realize the battery was powering the car at that point. I suspect these tips will further increase my mpg.
Lately I have been getting only an average of 45-46 mpg per tank by the display, though I suspect that is mostly because I have been doing so many 1- or 2-mile trips, stop and go, and because the weather now is in the 40s. But I still have been getting 51 or so highway by the display and as much as 53 to 61 on suburban drives of 40 to 50 miles per hour with fewer stops.
I'm going to check my mpg more precisely this time by the old-fashioned method of dividing miles by gallons used. What do you get when you calculate this? How much is a reasonable goal to shoot for?
And why in the world doesn't Honda (or the EPA, or a consumer magazine) let potential customers know that these rates are very attainable?

spunjorno · November 2010

"How much is a reasonable goal to shoot for?"

Well, with the cooler weather, with temps in the 40s, my display has come down to 57 MPG (translates to 53 MPG calculated) for almost exclusively highway driving. In the summer, almost every trip was at 62 MPG on the display. That's the highest the display can go for the screen that shows your present and last 4 trips. Which means that those trips probably registered higher but the display was "pegged".

"And why in the world doesn't Honda (or the EPA, or a consumer magazine) let potential customers know that these rates are very attainable?"

They do. They say what all manufacturers have to say... "your milage may vary". I'm sure there are some Insight drivers that are getting in the 30s for MPG, due to the conditions of their commute and their driving style.

spunjorno · November 2010

Back to driving on battery only:
To get the best gas milage, do this as often as possible. If the car kicks back to using gas, then back off the accelerator and gently reapply again. On a 25MPH level road, I've been able to sustain this for over a minute. Sometimes when the battery gets to about half charge the car will switch back over to gas. But if I keep trying I can get it back to battery-only for another 10 seconds or so -- several times over again. At some point, it just won't do it anymore until it has a chance to recharge. But after a few miles of driving on gas, it has recharged enough to do it again for a short period of time.

Doing this is like a coupon for free milage. Anytime there's enough battery charge and the right conditions to do it, you should or you're leaving money on the table.

Next time, I'll relate a story that shows why you should not be trying to save-up your battery charge.

spunjorno · November 2010

Here's my story on saving-up battery power -
While watching the battery display, I used to try to get as close to a full charge as possible, thinking that the more I had, the better my overall milage would be. I hadn't yet discovered how to drive on only battery power and thought that hard acceleration was the only way to depleat the energy stored in the battery - and I didn't want to be wasteful by accelerating hard. So I was near full charge and driving in a hilly part of eastern Pennsylvania. The road I was on was going down a hill. A *long* and somewhat steep down hill. I was not on the gas pedal, but the car was accelerating quickly. When my speed climbed too high, I began to press the brake to stop from gaining any more speed. And like a good little hybrid, the car converted my momentum into electrical energy which got stored in the battery, thus slowing me down. No energy was wasted, and all was right with the world -- at first. Until the battery became too full to accept any more charge (remember I started out nearly full charge, so it topped out rather quickly.) And now my hybrid could no longer be a hybrid. With no more battery capacity left to store energy, the only way the car could slow down was to use the conventional friction brakes - like any old "ordinary" car would. Wasted energy spilled out all over the place in the form of heat into the atmosphere. I knew this because my gauge on the far right of the dash was no longer in the green to show that I was charging. Instead it was in the center. I knew then that had I used more of the battery earlier, I would have been able to recover this lost energy for future use and gas savings. And I wouldn't of had to use up as much brake pad life thus prolonging the time until my next brake job. The End.

Moral -- Use up that battery power. It won't let you depleat it so much that you won't have enough for your next acceleration. It stops letting you drive on battery-only long before that point.

So far, all my tips (at least three or so) have revolved around how and when to let up and reapply the gas pedal. Next time, I'll move onto some tips that don't involve that.

accordguy0325 · November 2010

"""I hadn't yet discovered how to drive on only battery power""""

In the coming year - you'll be able to do so with Honda's 2012 Civic hybrid that uses two electric motors instead of one, and a lithium Ion battery instead of the current nickel-metal hydride batteries.

You can expect the 2012 Civic hybrid to be rated at 50MPG - and can view some more information about Honda's new hybrid technology through Honda's main webpage - honda . com - under news, although information is limited.

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com">

spunjorno · November 2010

A couple last points I should mention before leaving the topic of driving on only battery...

Keep in mind that you can't usually do it until the car has warmed up. So for those of you who do frequent short trips, this may not help get your milage up as much as those who have long commutes.

Also, I should have pointed out that when you do this and your instantaneous milage reads 100 MPG, your actual instantaneous milage is much higher. But you can't see how high it really is because the display only goes up to 100 MPG. (I wonder what it would read if it could display the real number...) Because that the milage is so high, it has a really positive effect when averaged into your overall milage, even when only done for a short period of time (like 30 seconds or so).

Okay, next time I'll move on to something else.

spunjorno · November 2010

All my tips thus far have been specific to the insight.

[With the exception that someone pointed out that you can "fake-shift" on any automatic transmission. Well, one last word on that. On an ordinary (non CVT) automatic transmission, it only works if you are already close to being at the shift point, and by backing off the accelerator you can coax the transmission to shift slightly earlier than it would have -- and that's all. But if you're not near the shift point you will probably just remain in the same gear. And when you're in the top gear, it can't be done anymore 'cause there are no more higher gears. Because of these limitations, it will hardly effect your gas mileage on that car. However, with a CVT car (like the Insight), there are in essence soooo many gear ratios (let's call it infinite for discussion purposes) that you are always close to the next gear, so it's easy to coax to a more economical gear ratio, and do so often enough to cause gas mileage to go up. And even at cruising speed, there are still more higher gears for you to continue to push to so you can boost mileage. ------- But I digress.]

Anyway, the point of this post was to take a moment to discuss one tip that I've been doing on my Insight that can be done on any car. But I confess that it isn't something new or original, but I still want to divulge it since it is one of the many ways I've gotten my mileage to be as high as it is. --- I slightly overinflated my tires.

The tires on my Insight say on the sidewall that the maximum pressure they can continuously handle safely is 44 psi. Now, I wouldn't want to push right up to that limit, but the car's driver's door nameplate states that 33 psi is recommended pressure for these tires on a car of this weight. That's a big range in between those two numbers.

I've been inflating to 37 psi on my Insight. The tires being slightly harder at that pressure causes the rolling resistance to be less, and less energy therefore is lost to heat from friction, causing the tires to run cooler (in theory, but I haven't measured the temp for comparison) and allows longer coasting with less speed loss. This helps boosts mileage. I'm not sure how much it is contributing since it would be difficult for me to keep all other conditions constant for comparison sake, but I've heard numbers like 1 or 2 extra MPGs per tank from doing this on other cars. I expect that on the Insight it would be on the lower side of that range because they are already low rolling resistance tires to begin with. But I figure, every little bit helps.

The other advantage I find from doing this is that with firmer tires, the car becomes more responsive and handling is improved. It has similar effect on performance as does changing to a lower profile tire, but maybe to a lesser degree. Braking performance has not seemingly degraded either, in fact I understand that it is usually slightly improved by doing this.

So what's the downside? Everything comes at a price, right? Well, with more responsive handling comes a harsher ride. The tires, being harder, absorb less bumps, so more of that energy is passed through to the cabin. But that doesn't bother me because I don't like driving cars that feel like their floating on a cloud anyway. That's why I didn't buy a Prius (That car drives like a hover craft -- you don't drive a Prius, you *guide* a Prius). I like the feel of being "connected" to the road. And I find that the Insight's suspension is rather compliant and can absorb much of these bumps, so it's not too harsh for me.

The only other downside I'm aware of is tire wear. Over-inflation can cause uneven wear such that the center of the tread wears out more quickly than the edges. But I expect it to be quite mild at this pressure. I will monitor this frequently to see if it's the case, but so far I'm over 12K with no signs of any trouble. I can always back down a little if it becomes an issue, but for now I'm staying put.

Disclaimer time -- I'm not suggesting anyone else over-inflate their tires. I'm merely telling you what *I* have done on my Insight (and I also slightly over-inflate my Accord too). I'm NOT recommending that you copy my example, even to a lesser degree. So if you decide to do this, then you do so at your own risk. Use your own judgment. I nor Edmunds shall be held responsible for any consequences of not following the maker's recommendations. 'Nuff said.

Coming soon... I'll go back to more Insight specific tips.

carchiel · November 2010

A question or two: I've been trying your techniques to good avail, I think. But how can you tell if the battery is actually powering the car -- as opposed to the car just coasting? I've driven several times for 10 seconds or so with the horizontal mpg bar at 100, and staying more or less up to speed. Does this mean the battery is being used at that point?
Also, with weather in Chicago having gone down to the 20s, 30s and 40s, my display mpg has been lower. Yesterday on a highway, though, I got 50-51. On a suburban road driving about 40 miles per hour, I got up to 52 for that trip, and am at 47 for the entire tank so far because of lots of short, one-mile drives with lots of stops. Is this going to be the best I can do (which is great, by the way), or are there ways of getting it higher still, do you think? Is your mpg higher mostly because it's longish distance? Or is there more for me to do? (I have kept tire pressure at constant 33 all along.)

spunjorno · November 2010

How do you know when you're on battery only?

Well, when your instantaneous mileage is at max it may mean you are using only battery, or it may mean you are coasting. Look to the meter on the far left of the dash to tell which it is. The tell tale sign is that while the instantaneous mileage is max (100 MPG), the meter on the far left side of the dash is in the blue (assist) region. Both must happen simultaneously. If the battery is "assisting" then by definition you are not coasting. Besides, when coasting you'll notice that the meter is in the green "charging" area. So when you're getting 100 MPG, look at the meter. Green means coast and blue means propulsion on battery only. The double check is to click up five display screens to see the battery charge display. It will tell you the direction of power flow and from where. Try for no arrow from the nozzle to the car (meaning no use of gas for propulsion) and at the same time an arrow from the battery to the car (this means using battery).

Is my mpg higher because of driving mostly long distance trips or is there more you can do?

The answer is "yes" to both. I still have more tips to devulge which may help. Also, my mileage has recently tumbled to 50 (down 7 MPGs) on the display as a result of driving to see family in the city on Thanksgiving and with temps in the 20s. It's starting to climb again though.

carchiel · November 2010

Thank you for this information. So, please do send any more tips, because I'm fascinated as to how high I can go in mpg with reasonable but attentive driving.
And to follow up on your last note, is the idea that you go farther by battery-driving than coasting? And exactly how do I learn the technique of getting the car to drive by battery assist? I guess that, for one, I need to have been driving enough at that point to have the battery well-charged. And then, is it your suggestion that when I get the car to go to 100 MPG on the display bar that I then have the display screen showing the battery and gas icons to see what happens when I do certain things? Or just watch the assist versus charge meter on the left? I will pay more attention to that meter, but I have been under the impression that when I'm "coasting" that meter always stays in the middle of the graph. I have to admit I'm still a tad confused about how to accomplish battery power instead of just coasting.

But anyway, this is totally fun, and since I'm at about 50 MPG right now anyway, in cold weather, I can't complain!
Thanks again for any further information.

spunjorno · January 2011

Sorry it's been a while. Let's answer your questions:

"Is the idea that you go farther by battery-driving than coasting?"
Well, my point was really that when coasting you can't maintain your speed -- you begin to slow down and eventually roll to a stop (unless youre rolling down hill). ANY car can coast. But when driving using only a hybrids battery, you CAN maintain your speed and continue normal driving without using any gas to do so. Its like driving on free gas.

"How do I learn the technique of driving by battery?"
You need the car to be warmed up. In winter it takes longer than just waiting for the "cold" dash light to go out. You don't need to have anywhere near a full charge on the hybrid batteries, but the more you have the easier it is to do and the longer you can drive on battery. Just to get the hang of it, find a straight and level 25MPH road with no stop signs/lights (or a big empty parking lot). While at 25MPH, lift off the accelerator for at least a second or two and gently repress. Look for the needle in the blue "assist" region at the same time the INST millage bar is at full. Keep trying until you get it. See how long you can keep both of them that way.

"Is it your suggestion that when I get the car to go to 100 MPG on the display bar that I then have the display screen showing the battery and gas icons to see what happens when I do certain things?
No, only go to that screen once or twice just to see what I'm talking about of how it confirms for you whether or not you're only using battery. If you aren't in the blue assist region, you're not driving on battery and the battery screen will show that you're using gas. I always stay with the INST millage screen up, not the battery screen. The battery screen shows you exactly where your power is really coming from. Once you see it the first time theres no more need to go back to that screen -- youll already know what it looks like.

Or just watch the assist versus charge meter on the left?
I usually only look at that meter when I notice that my INST millage is at 100 in order to tell that Im on battery only. And even then, Im just looking for it to be slightly in the blue (I dont care how far in the blue).

I have been under the impression that when I'm "coasting" that meter always stays in the middle of the graph.
That might not be true. The only way to know for sure that you are coasting is to keep your feet off the pedals and shift into neutral. Then the meter will be in the middle of the graph and you are really coasting. But when in drive, if the meter is in the middle it simply means that you are not charging the battery (by regenerative braking) nor are you using battery assist for propulsion  but you could still be using gas, and therefore not coasting. A side note: When in drive and not touching the pedals, you are also not coasting  you are slightly braking. And this is seen by the meter being in the charging part of the graph.

I hope this helps alleviate some of your confusion about coasting vs battery driving.

carchiel · January 2011

Thanks for the info. I'll try this. So, with all these tricks, what sort of mileage do you get in what sort of driving (say, on the display)? I live in the Chicago area and find that on really cold days I will get anywhere from 40 to 47 or so. But when it's even up around freezing or up into summer weather, 47 to 56 or so is more typical, and even on some occasions up to 62 or so on drives in the 40-60 mph range with relatively few stops. Highway driving, more or less the same numbers.

spunjorno · January 2011

With the temps in the 20s and occasional snow on the ground, my real millage has tumbled from 58MPGs in the summer to 48MPGs now.

One trip was especially bad -- less that 30MPGs. This was during an ice storm where I was caught in highway traffic for 3 hrs while barely moving (on a drive that normally takes 20 mins). I was sitting at a stand still on the highway for a long time. Because my foot was on the brake the whole time, the engine shut off like a good little hybrid to save gas. But I sat there so long that my headlights (it was nightime) completely depleated the hybrid batteries. So the engine was then forced to kick back on in order to continue to power the headlights. And so I sat not moving in traffic, now with the engine running and wasting gas. I didn't want to manually turn off the engine because I still needed my headlights to work -- I didn't want to turn them off while on a highway, besides, sometimes we would move a little. When things finally got moving again, I temporarily no longer had a hybrid -- just an ordinary car because I had no battery charge to assist me. So my milage was crap even after we got going again. But within about 10 minutes of driving, my battery charge eventually came back up and things got better again. But this trip really pulled down my average MPGs, damn it!

carchiel · January 2011

Oh, one other question I have -- I read some hybrid expert (and I think he sounded legit and informed) saying it's best to accelerate a hybrid "briskly." I had been doing so more gradually and find that if I'm too "brisk," mileage goes down. Do you try to keep the green/blue screen in the green when accelerating?
Oh, another thing on that Insight vs. Prius issue that continues to bug me: I just this second saw an ad on this site where Prius brags that its mileage is 50, compared to Honda's 41, supposedly. I realize this is based on EPA ratings, but I know my mpg is consistently in the Prius's range or higher, and that I spent $3,700 less than I would have had to pay for a Prius. I recently had the chance to drive a Prius rental. It's certainly a cool car, but the graphics to me are far less useful than those in the Insight, so that with the Insight's immediate feedback graphics I'm convinced we are getting equal or better mileage than the Prius. It just seems to me the EPA rating is misleadingly low in the case of the Insight.

spunjorno · January 2011

I would have to hear the expert's reasons why he says that before I'd agree with him. His statement is rather counter intuitive and goes against what the hybrid manufacturer themselves says. It makes the gas engine work harder which makes it less efficient. Your experience and mine as well would also suggest that he is wrong. I always try to accelerate gradually and stay in the green.

Yes, the ad's claim is using EPA numbers, which favors Prius. They are also using the worst of the two numbers for Insight (city) while using the best of the two number for Prius (also city) just to play up the difference. I don't know why the EPA tests were so low for Insight, but I know the tests are standardized. Maybe they are required to test with the engine cold and for a short trip, and perhaps those conditions tend to penalize Insight and favor Prius -- or some other factor.

But you should also know that all the people I know who drive Prius's also brag that their millage is much higher than the Prius EPA numbers too. So both cars are actually misleadingly low. These people are claiming they actually get high 50s or low 60s. So they may actually be getting slightly better millage than us. And there are some Prius design features that would cause their millage to be higher. But these features cause the price of the Prius to be quite a bit higher too. I think that Honda made the right trade-offs with the Insight. A couple extra MPGs might not be worth the extra $3700 to most people.

But the cheaper cost was not the reason I bought the Insight. I test drove the Prius and didn't like the way it drives. It handled like a hover craft. You don't drive a Prius, you "guide" a Prius. It's kind of "wandery". The Insight handles like a car and the steering is precise. The Prius felt like a spaceship with its weird displays, not a car. So for me, I'm far happier owning an Insight.

elias · January 2011

hovercraft handling! that's the best description of prius handling i've seen.

and thank you for all the details of insightful driving, everyone.
i've got to sign up with all the CR-Z groups too - I like insight and would cross-shop it against chevy cruze automatic, but now that CR-Z is available, i'm more likely to rather cross-shop cr-z & cruze with manual-shift...

either way , the super details from insightful drivers here are especially appreciated. I'm guessing that some of them would apply to CR-Z too and others wouldn't.

spunjorno · January 2011

Back to some more tips:

I should probably mention (and I don't think I have yet) that I've only been driving with econo button "on", and with the gear shifter in "D", NOT "S". I would imagine that millage would be worse otherwise, but I've never tried it for any length of time.

But here is a little surprising tip -- don't use the cruise control! I had an argument with a friend of mine over this. He contends that the key to good millage is to drive at a constant speed, and that the cruise control is better at maintaining your speed than a human could ever be. Well, the last part of that statement may be true. But the cruise control accelerates hard to get back to the programmed speed when restarting after a stop. It does the same when going up a hill. It's focused on using higher performance to hold speed at a constant level, and not so much focused on economy. But a driver (not using cruise) can let his speed drop a little going uphill and let gravity aid him to get the speed back up when coming down the other side in order to save gas. So my friend is wrong - holding constant speed is not always good for millage.

Besides, when using cruise control you don't have the ability to then do most of the other techniques that I've previously mentioned (like backing off the accelerator and gently reapplying). The cruise control won't do that for you.

Next time I'll talk about how to get around some of the situations that causes the Insight to idle when stopped and thus waste gas. I hate when that happens!

carchiel · January 2011

Again, very interesting. I've noticed that at stops the engine doesn't tend to cut off during cold weather, though it almost always does in warm. Is there a way around that, or is that unavoidable?

spunjorno · January 2011

How to almost never idle again:
When sitting still while the engine is running (ex: at a red-light), youre getting zero miles per gallon from the gas youre burning. This lowers your overall millage. The Insight is designed to stop this waste of gas by automatically shutting off the gas engine (AUTO STOP), but only when the shifter is in D, the car is at a stop, and your foot is on the brake. Unfortunately, this doesnt always happen though. And sometimes even when it does, it turns back on after a short period of time while still stopped. This is frustrating, especially when waiting at a long traffic light. There are several situations that will cause the Insight to *not* AUTO STOP. I have found all of the reasons (I think) and will show you some ways around it. This is a long subject and will probably take several postings for me to cover all of it.

Tip: First off  dont drive with the gear shifter in S, and also make sure the ECO button is ON. This will maximize (but not guarantee) your chances of the AUTO STOP working. Also, dont start the car until you are ready to pull out. I used to get the car running, then adjust my mirrors, set the radio, look around to check for traffic, and then finally put it in drive and go. Since Im in PARK, the car just idles. What a waste! Do all that other stuff with the key in the accessory position BEFORE starting the car. Wait till the coast is clear, start, quickly put it in drive and go. And dont sit and wait for the car to warm up  its not necessary and gas wasting. Also, before starting, look ahead to where youre going. Is there a red-light or traffic up ahead? If so, wait to start the car. Watch and try to time it so that when you get there you wont have to stop (because AUTO STOP is less likely to work early in the trip). When at work, I park in a spot where I can see the traffic light down the road. I sat and watched to learn when in its cycle I can pull out and get there while the coast is clear  and not have to stop.

I even go so far as to start driving without starting the car at all, when possible. You see, my driveway is on a hill. If I put the key in the accessory position, I can shift into Neutral and roll out of the driveway while using zero gas (you could also do this in DRIVE or REVERSE too, but theres less engine resistance in Neutral, so you can roll further and faster  and in Neutral you are able to later start the car while still rolling). I wait to start the car until Im ready to accelerate. IMPORTANT NOTES: When rolling with the car not running you wont have power brakes (just manual brakes), which means you can still brake, but it takes a lot more pressure on the pedal and may greatly increase your stopping distance. So dont do this if the coast isnt clear or if there is something nearby that you might crash into. Also remember never to put the car in a forward gear while you are still rolling backwards, or into reverse while still rolling forward. You must completely brake to a stop before going into a gear of opposite direction or else you could hurt the transmission (or at very least waste gas by having the engine use gas to change direction).

Back to AUTO STOP problems: One main reason the AUTO STOP wont work is that the engine or the coolant is cold. Honda leaves the car running at stops in order to continue to warm a cold engine. (This annoys me  Id rather it shut down anyway). So when you first start out on the road, dont expect an AUTO STOP. And you wont always know when the engine is sufficiently heated up enough because even when the Cold light goes out it doesnt necessarily mean its warm enough for the AUTO STOP to engage. Also, because the engine is so small, it doesnt generate a lot of heat. So in winter, it can take a while to get warm enough. (It also takes a while to feel heat out of the climate control system). Once the car warms up enough, the AUTO STOP begins to kick in at the stops. But sometimes in very cold weather, after a couple long AUTO STOPs the engine has a chance to cool back down to the point of not engaging again until more driving heats it back up again. During less cold seasons it works a lot better.

Heres some tips Dont use the heater when first getting started. Tough it out for a few minutes  it will get the AUTO STOP working faster. It will let the engine build up heat faster by not pulling heat away to warm the cabin. Once AUTO STOP has started working, then you can turn on the heat. Besides, it will just blow cold air at you anyway until then. If the engine cools down during stops to the point that AUTO STOP isnt working again, then its time to turn off the heat again.

I resort to turning the car off manually if Im caught at a light that I know to be very long and the AUTO STOP has not kicked in. I tend to drive the same roads every day, and get a good feel for which lights are the really long ones (5-way intersections, multi-lane with left turn only signals, etc). Plus you can look ahead to see if the light just turned or not to see if you will be sitting for the full cycle or just for a few seconds. If its going to be long, I shut it off for two seconds and then turn back to the accessory position. (If you dont wait the two seconds, it sometimes starts right back up -- so check for the tachometer to be at zero to be sure) You want to be in the accessory position because otherwise your daytime running lights wont be on. And since youre on the road, its important they be on. I also shift into Neutral so that when it turns green Im ready to start, shift, and go. So I keep my foot on the brake while in Neutral so I dont roll. But try to anticipate when the green is coming, because the car takes a couple seconds to actually get into gear. This will have the people behind you laying on the horn if your timing is off.

For those of you with the EX model with GPS, turning off manually will probably reset your programmed destination. But I dont have GPS, so that doesnt affect me. For you city people, you probably don't want to manually turn off at ALL the lights. There's probably too many of them. Most of them are short anyway. Just pick some of the long ones.

Enough for now. Next time  Other ways the climate control system screws up the AUTO STOP and tricks to get around it.

yerth10 · January 2011

Dont worry about Prius vs Insight

Compare between Insight & Civic. Civic regular starts at 15,800 and add 1k for Auto and it becomes 16,800.

At 1.4k extra, Insight will easily get the Return very quickly, also Insight has 16 cu. ft. trunk space which is 3 cu. ft. more than Civic.

Insight is much better and can easily sell more if people know about it better.

spunjorno · January 2011

Okay - so now your engine is warmed up and you stop at a light. There are three possibilities that exist:
1) Your engine does AUTO STOP, like you expect
2) Your engine AUTO STOPs, but only for 14 seconds before restarting (which is really annoying at long lights)
3) Your engine doesn't AUTO STOP at all (even worse)

If either 2 or 3, most of the time it's because of the climate control system.

The climate control system affects AUTO STOP in the following way: With the A/C or vent on, the engine will remain in AUTO STOP while you are stopped with your foot on the brake  but only provided that it is not the slightest bit humid outside. If the air isnt dry, you will restart in 14 seconds or wont AUTO STOP at all. It appears that there are humidity sensors in the climate control system that can detect conditions of when its possible that your windows could potentially fog up. Honda doesn't want the engine to turn off in that case because then the air conditioner compressor cant run to help dry the air, and the blower could fog up your windows to create an unsafe driving condition. Even if youve hit the A/C button so that the display reads A/C OFF (therefore using ventilation only), it doesnt seem to matter.

SOLUTIONS: If its dry out and you are able to remain in AUTO STOP, then dont change anything. But on days where youre not remaining in AUTO STOP, turn off the VENT (by entirely turning off the climate control system) and open the windows instead. With the climate system completely off, it will no longer be able to prevent AUTO STOP from doing what its supposed to do. If you are using A/C and its too hot outside to open the windows, then use the A/C, but remember to temporarily turn off the entire climate control system each time you stop. You can turn it right back on again once you get moving. But when doing this you must remember to turn it off BEFORE you step on the brake to start slowing down. If you step on the brake first and then turn off the HVAC, the car has already made the decision to not remain in AUTO STOP. If while stopped the engine kicks back on after 14 seconds, turning off the HVAC system wont have any effect at that point.

In winter time, its always damp with condensation on everything. Im finding that my AUTO STOP almost never works with the heat on. So Ive been turning off the HVAC at each traffic light. When blowing air at the windshield, the AUTO STOP is always locked out. So I dont leave the front defogger on. I turn it on when moving and turn it right back off after the windshield has cleared. When the windshield starts to re-fog, I do it again only as needed.

carchiel · January 2011

Thanks -- this is all great to know. Btw I am now getting high 40s and low 50s even in cold weather, which I think is an improvement. The trick about the auto stop will be really helpful.

330 · January 2011

I HAVE APR.26000 MILES ON MY 2010 EX.IN THIS WINTER WEATHER I DRIVE THE SAME ROUTE SAME SPEED SAME TIME TC. -ONLY THE WEATER IS COLDER -I HAVE THE HEAT SET A MODEST 65F CONSTANTLY.
MY MILEAGE REDUCED FROM AVERAGE 47-48 MPG TO A "MEAGER"40-41.
THE ONLY MAINTANACE I EVER PERFORMED IS OIL CHANGE ONCE OIL LIFE % REACHES 20%-LIGHTWEIGHT OIL USED BY DEALER.
i DRIVE OVER 100 MILES DAILY MIXED HIGHWAY AND CITY .aLWAYS USE ECO MODE-NEVER SPORT I HAVE A "LIGHT "FOOT
YOUR COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS GREATLY APPRICIATED.

accordguy0325 · January 2011

I've had the same thing happen with my 2011 CRZ which has only 3,500 miles. During the warmer months I was getting 40-42mpg and since winter hit I've been getting 31-32.

The only thing I can think of is that the extreme cold puts a strain on the battery and it thus lowers the mpg.

Typically automobile gas mileage in general decreases in the winter because you spend longer periods of time in which the vehicles engine peak operating temps are below the optimum efficiency levels.

I expect it to improve once weather warms, and if not, I'll be paying my dealer a visit.

carchiel · January 2011

I've recently been trying the suggestions from SpunJorno -- and they work!
I have been doing the trick with turning off heat before a long stop so the Auto Stop feature works. Between that and the other driving tricks, my mpg is around 47-48 even now in the recent cold in the Chicago area. When it's warmer, I expect it'll be higher. I don't really know the CR-Z, but I will be most or all of these tricks apply.

spunjorno · January 2011

EVERYONES mileage goes down a LOT this time of year, regardless of the type of car. But only hybrid drivers seem to be paying attention enough to notice the difference.

One big reason for the drop is that they change the formulation of the gasoline in the winter -- they call it the "winter blend". One reason for the formulation change is because temperature affects the amount of smog the gas will produce, so they change the formula to reduce it according to the season. But the winter blend in most areas of the country gives lower overall mileage.

The second reason for the drop in MPG is that the gas engine runs more efficient at warm temperatures.

Third -- gas doesnt burn completely in cold weather so theres more waste, and therefore, wasted energy.

Fourth -- cold air is heavier air. Its harder for the heavier air to be pulled into the engine for combustion. Also, heavier air makes for more air resistance for your car to push through as you drive, which increases friction and drag.

Fifth -- tire pressure goes down when the temperature goes down. The pressure may have been fine when you last checked it, but now its lower due to the cold (and itll go back up again when it gets warm). Low tire pressure adds rolling resistance and robs your fuel economy. You should check it again.

Sixth -- cold weather often comes with ice, snow, and slush, which takes more effort to push aside as you drive. It increases rolling resistance. Also slipping tires causes waste of energy.

Seventh -- when you drive with your headlights on, youre using up more energy (about 150 watts). On the Insight, this is significant percentage, but less significant on cars with bigger engines. I noticed this last summer. When driving at night my mileage was always lower than during the day. On rainy days, same problem (NJ state law says use headlights in rain). In winter, the decreased amount of daylight hours means more time spent driving in the dark. Therefore, both morning and evening commutes in winter require you to use the headlights.

Eighth, and to a way lesser degree -- the IMA battery and charging system. Yes, batteries dont like the cold -- but this affects your hybrids mileage way less than you would think. By the way, this one is the only reason specific to hybrids. The other 7 reasons affect everyone.

spunjorno · January 2011

Oh right, I forgot to mention -

Nineth -- when the engine is cold you don't get the AUTO STOP feature so you waste more gas idling. So that't 2 out of the 9 that only affect hybrids.

mickeyrom · January 2011

Nice post...I guess even 23-25 MPG in town is a lot better than the 11 I was getting on my Town and Country.Incidently,I'm still getting around 45 on the highway.(2007 Prius)

Sandman6472 · January 2011

I found the headrests to hurt my neck & back much more than my Civic. I've got serious spinal issues and felt my neck being put into a painful position just sitting in the car. Not sure if I could use this as a daily driver though I like the idea of higher mpg's. Prefer the EX model and the nicer alloys. Just curious about the CVT tranny...have this in my daughter's Versa and not a big fan...at all!

Would love to hear some driving experiences from current owners. Though I've cut my mileage down to maybe 2.5 k/year now, like the look of the Insight...guess I could get used to the weird back split window. Also, does one "fall into" or "slide into" the drivers seat? That could be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks all. Do prefer the Insight overall to the Prius!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

spunjorno · January 2011

Your post is a little off topic since this board is about mileage. But I'm curious what you don't like about the Versa's CVT. You didn't say why. I love the idea that I have nearly infinite gears and that I'm ALWAYS in the sweet spot -- instead of only five brief sweet spots on a 5-speed.

Interesting about the headrests. My wife has similar issues with the Toyota headrests (Matrix & Prius) - they hurt her neck. But she was fine with Honda. I guess it's an individual thing.

Sliding or falling? I dunno. I just kind of step into it and sit. Test drive for yourself and see what works for you. I still hate the split window, but like most other aspects of the car.

If you want to continue this topic, let's start a new board and let this one mostly be about mileage.

spunjorno · February 2011

Some other times that AUTO STOP doesn't exactly work like you wished --

Let's say you are arriving at your destination. You step on the brake and come to a stop. The car shuts down the engine via AUTO STOP - Great! And while your foot is still on the brake, you move the gear shift into PARK. Suddenly, the engine comes out of the AUTO STOP mode and starts running again for a few seconds until you turn and remove the key. You think to yourself, that was a waste - I'm in PARK! Why would the engine start to run again when obviously I'm parking, so by definition, I'm not going to need the engine to run. Why didn't the Honda make it so that it stayed in AUTO STOP when in PARK?

Well, here's the answer. In order to get to PARK, you had to first go through the REVERSE position on the gear shift. Therefore the car wasn't sure if you were maybe going to back up, and so it turns on the engine. Also, some people may want to sit in PARK while using some accesories (air, heat, defrost, lights, etc) without draining the battery while they wait to pick up somebody, so the engine would need to continue to run.

But if you were really at your destination and didn't want the car to momentarily turn back on just before pulling out the key, here's what you can do (and this is what I do). While completely stopped with your foot on the brake and *before* moving the gear shift out of the DRIVE position, manually turn off the engine by turning the key. (NOTE: Keep your foot on the brake so you don't roll! Also, you won't yet be able to remove the key while the car is still in drive) Then move the gear shift to PARK. You can now safely remove your foot from the brake and remove the key.

But pay attention! When doing this, it is easy to forget to take your key out and accidently leave it behind. Especially at first, before you get into the habbit of this routine.

spunjorno · February 2011

Decided to take my own advice and check my tire pressure since it had been a while. I had noticed my mileage display had been reading about 50 MPGs recently with the cold weather (cooresponds to 48 real world), but over the summer it was reading around 61 MPGs (57 real world). I found my tire pressure had dipped to 25 psi. So I boosted it back up to the 37 psi where I like to keep it (I purposely over inflate). My mileage now jumped up to 55 MPGs on the display. That's an 5 MPG increase. It just goes to show what temperature can due to tire pressure and what tire pressure can do for mileage.

as2010insight · February 2011

Sorry I did not respond to your reply to my Aug 26 post - I get the highest mileage using most of the things suggested by Spunjurno. The routes you travel and the time of year matter a lot. I was able to get a 10,000 mile average of 55.2 MPG through Nov 2010. Since then, using snow tires, winter gas, and being forced to occasionally use defrost during a tough central Mass winter, I am getting just under 50 MPG. My mix of driving includes more superhighway now, the car likes 55 much more than 70 mph. My new route precludes me from getting the 65 MPG 50 mile round trips I got in the summer, but avoids stoplights so the drop off is not that bad (once the weather gets better I will get 60 mpg roundtrips on my 140 mile per day commute if I chose to). I achieved the super high numbers by getting into max electric mode on flat steady speed roads. I don't know if spunjurno would agree, but to really get super high mileage with this car it helps to use a Zen-like approach and become one with the car and the road - once achieved 65 to 70 mpg days follow. By the way, I have 37000 mile on the car, with a max trip MPG of 68 and a min trip MPG of 38 (driving as close to race like as possible in this car)

carchiel · February 2011

I've been getting between 48 and 53 mpg recently (display numbers), in Chicago where it's been in the 20s lately. It is supposed to get quite cold tomorrow, 7 degrees or so. My plan is to check tire pressure and fill them once it's cold, and I expect my mileage will be close to where it has been. We'll see...

as2010insight · February 2011

Yesterday was the first time in a month we have been above freezing, the typical morning temperatures my car has experieinced have been between -8 and +10 degrees. Longer trips help because that means most of the miles I do are with a warm engine, short trips in this weather kill the mileage. I know the 70 mile trip I took this morning where I averaged 53 mpg would have been 60 mpg if I were using summer gas and it was 75 degrees.

spunjorno · March 2011

Sorry I've been so busy. I'll try to get back to writing more tips. I still have a bunch more to share. I just need to get some other things sorted out first. So stay tuned.

bmara · March 2011

I have a 2010 Insight got in December of 2010. I keep in the ECO mode. It really make you a better and more efficent driver. I am getting anywere from 50 to 53 mpg all city driving. Love the car and the milage that I am getting.

carchiel · March 2011

I'm still very interested. Now that the weather has warmed up some, I'm consistently getting 52 to 57 mpg on longish drives of 35 minutes or more at 40 to 50 miles per hour or so. (Always with the Econ button on.) I've used many of your tips, and mostly I watch that horizontal mpg display bar, which is very helpful -- as well as your tips about how to ensure that the AutoStop feature kicks in most of the time.

disappointed44 · April 2011

I leased a new Insight last OCT. I was expecting to atleast 45 MPG out of it as I have always been able to get better milage then claimed. the Best I have gotten is 43 MPG once. That tank was all at under 50 MPH. over all I have averaged around 37 MPG for the intire time. I drive to work 30 miles on the interstate one way. I have the ecno on and use cruise control at 65-68 MPH. My milage is based off of fuel going in not the computer. the milage does not seam to change but about 2 MPG even thow the computer says differnt. the better the computer say i'm gitting the farthure off it is. According to the econ gauge that is displayed when the car is shut off I can not get any better score. The dealer says there is nothing they can do as every thing is controled by the computer. This has been the most dissapointing and worst vehicle I have owned in over 40 years.

nine51 · April 2011

Just picked up a 2011 Insight EX last week. I like the way it drives and am looking forward to better mileage as the car gets broken in. I enjoy reading and trying many of the tips on this forum. I have learned a few tricks with my Insight on my own in the short time of ownership. One annoying issue I had was having the autostop kick in as I was pulling into my garage. It would sometimes shut down once or twice before I was pulled in far enough to get the garage door closed. What I do now is shift the car to S mode as I pull into the garage and prevent it from going into autostop. Sure, I'm probably wasting a teaspoon full of gas, but parking in the garage is much more smooth. Another issue was having autostop kick in when I stop in the middle of an intersection while waiting for traffic to clear so I could turn left. In this situation, I also shift to S mode to prevent autostop from kicking in, so when traffic clears and I get a hole to squirt through, the car is ready to go without hesitation. Then after I'm safely around the turn, I shift back to D. Again, maybe I'm waisting a bit of fuel by not being in autostop mode, but I feel much safer with the car ready to accelerate when needed. I do use the tip where you shut off the engine before shifting to park as you pull into a parking space. It keeps the engine from re-starting for that split second. I've put just under 100 miles on the car so far and the fuel gauge is still reading above 3/4 tank. Sweet!

as2010insight · May 2011

My Insight is now 25 months old and I have put 42000 miles on it. My MPG over the last 3000 miles is 55 on the computer (I am getting about 550 - 600 miles per tank) - My MPG avg over the last 20,000 miles is well over 53 MPG. The only time I have returned mileage below 45 MPG was on high speed rides from MA to Montreal via Vermont mountains in the winter, when I got about 39 MPG (the car does not like cold, hills, or speed). The most important part of the mileage equation is the driver. Try accelerating more gradually, if you can keep the display in the green you will not be getting mileage in the 30s. Think about slowing down, mileage drops in all vehicles above 55 mph, some cars with bigger engines are pretty efficient at 65 with RPMs <2000. This is not one of those cars, the engine is small and it is geared to run at pretty high RPMs at 65, so at 68 you are really hurting your mileage, 65 is fine, but 55 or 60 will deliver higher mileage. Turning the computer off and just driving with a light foot, properly anticipating the traffic flow with the goal of not using your brakes and maintaining momentum as much as you can to you can will deliver mileage at or above the EPA listing. This website has additional tips such as higher tire pressures that will also help you.
I have driven over 1,000,000 miles in a wide variety of cars (almost all purchased new) ranging from my first car, a 1965 GTO to my last car a 2001 Acura CL type S, with lots of trucks and cars in between. I have found good and bad things about all of my cars, moving directly from a $35,000 luxury/performance car into an Insight was such a sharp contrast I too may claim it is the worst car I have owned, but I do not. The evaluation all depends on what is important to you, I am currently driving about 700 miles a week so I spend a lot of time in this car and I rate the Insight - luxury poor, driver comfort fair, passenger comfort poor, interior functionality (controls, space, etc) good, power moderately poor, visibility moderately poor, but steering very good, braking excellent, economy of operation excellent, emissions excellent, overall value excellent. So if comfort and power are your criterion - Insight is worst , but as one of the greenest cars and the one with perhaps the highest ROI out there in terms of initial cost and cost of operation - Insight is best.

albalma · June 2011

Hi,

Sorry to disagree with you spunjorno, but the hotter the temperature can also be the lower the mileage. At least in Texas, where I used to live, if the temperature went above 80°F I consistently got lower mileage, for some reason that's what happened to me anyway.

Thanks for all the tips, they're great!

albalma · June 2011

This just confirms what I thought was just my imagination, the problem is in some roads it's hard to keep the accelerator in the right place, when they are bumpy. I will try this more, thank you!

albalma · June 2011

carchiel, I have driven a Prius, it does have the mpg indicator as the Insight, but as a driving experience, the Insight feels like riding on a tiger, while the Prius is more of an elephant. The mpgs have to be about the same, as you say, and I also don't think Honda should give up on such a great little car, but to better teach the EPA dudes how to correctly drive their car. I can imagine those heavy footed grunts pushing for all the speed in the world, instead of more patiently waiting for the speed to come.

spunjorno · June 2011

Hi albalma,

Let's clarify.

"...the hotter the temperature can also be the lower the mileage. At least in Texas, where I used to live, if the temperature went above 80°F I consistently got lower mileage..."

I suspect you may not have been comparing apples to apples, in that your accessory usage may not have been the same (without your knowledge). For instance, although you may have had the climate system set to the same temperature, you must realize that the A/C compressor is going to run much harder in hot weather to keep the cabin at the set temperature. This will rob your mileage in hot weather as more gas is sucked up to power the compressor - quite a bit actually. So its not a fair comparison.

The REAL test is to turn OFF the climate system entirely and then see what the differences are. In that case, you will find your mileage is highest with hotter temps.

albalma · June 2011

Sure, didn't think the air really took that much from the engine. Thank you!

dbacks1 · July 2011

I have had my Insight for 1 year now and at first I usually got 48 MPG. Now I get about 57! That's mostly highway and some city miles. I drive about 63 MPH on the freeway but besides that I don't do too many other tricks. Once you get 10K miles on the car it seems like the MPG really goes up.

jbrunelle1 · July 2011

I have about 5500 miles on my 2011 Insight LX. The last tank I averaged just over 54 MPG for 465 miles. This was about 70% rush hour highway and 30% in town and about 20% with the air on. I drive normally with traffic at highway speeds, 60 -70 mph. My 27 miles to work average about 57 MPG with a high of 65.4. The lowest I experienced was in sub zero, snow and wind at about 40MPG.
I've expermented with both Econ mode on and off. The best MPG I've gotten was with it off, but I must admit I was really pushing for the best milage, driving in the slow lane and using all my little tricks. I've gotten a high of 66.9 MPG doing this.
I do admit the ride is a bit harsh, but no worse than my 2000 Honda Civic. The seats are comfortable. The rear visability is fair with the bar in the middle of my vision zone. It's probably not a car I would travel with cross country on a regular basis, bit it a super commuter. Compared to my Civic with a 36 mpg average, the 54 MPG is a big saver at the pump.
I would rate it as on of the best economical commuters available today. I just wish there was a good electric that had the range I need!

kidsid · August 2011

spunjorno,
A while back you suggested that to optimize mileage, you should try to drive on the electric motor only for a long as possible. You described this as "free mileage". I would have to disagree with that recommendation and here's why...
The purpose of a gas/electric hybrid design is to reap the advantages of two different power sources, an internal combustion engine and an electric motor. Small internal combustion engines are great for reducing fuel consumption. They don't produce much torque but a car does not need much torque to maintain a constant velocity (exceptions excluded). Where a car needs the most torque is when accelerating from a stop. This is where the electric motor comes in. Electric motors can be designed to have maximum torque at 0 RPM.
In a hybrid, the electric motor supplements the small ICE (internal combustion engine), providing the high torque that the ICE cannot, when accelerating. That's the principal behind the electric motor/ICE combination.
Now when you say "free mileage", thats not really true. In this hybrid, all of the energy comes from gasoline. (if the Insight was a plugin hybrid, this would be different) Just because you are using the electric motor only to maintain your speed, does not get you anything for free, as a matter of fact, it is the wrong thing to do from an efficiency perspective.
Why is this the case? The ICE generates all of the electrical energy in the battery. Charging the battery is suplemented by regenerative braking as well, but the benefit of this is highly dependent on driving habits and conditions. For the sake of this argument, lets just consider it all coming from the ICE.
Remember, the purpose of the electric motor is to aid acceleration. Depleting the battery to maintain velocity (no acceleration) is less efficient because the energy from the gasoline has to be first converted into electrical energy and be stored in the battery. The electric motor then takes the electrical energy in the battery and converts it to mechanical energy to move the car. This indirect path from gasoline to mechanical energy is less efficient than using the ICE to take the energy from gasoline and convert directly into mechanical energy because there are losses inccured at each level of the process.
However, having an electric motor to generate high torque levels to get the car moving allows the use of a much smaller ICE, which at low torque levels is very efficient at converting gasoline into mechanical energy.
Suffice it to say that using the electric motor to "maintain" your speed is a waste. The battery should be reserved for acceleration because the ICE cannot do this job very well or very efficiently.
You mentioned that you have driven a Prius. On the earlier models of the Prius, i.e. 2006-2009, if you take the Prius on a flat stretch of highway, set the cruise control to 65 or so,... as you approach small rises in the terrain, you can watch as the Prius HSD uses the electric motor to make small contributions of torque to maintain the selected cruise speed, while noticing that the Prius' ICE maintains very much a constant RPM. This is because the ICE run at a constant RPM is being optimized by the engine control computer. Changing the ICE RPM to accelerate reduces the efficiency of the ICE. This finely tuned balancing process in the Prius is very interesting to watch.

Also, you have made some comments about coasting. In the Insight, whenever your foot is off the gas, the engine control computer actually shuts off the fuel injectors to the engine so you are burning no fuel. The ICE continues to turn because with Honda's IMA system, the ICE is always connected to the wheels when the transmission is engaged. What happens is the fuel is cutoff and the valves of the engine are shut to reduce pumping losses. This is a less sophisticated system when compared to the Prius, yet highly effective at a much lower cost.

In light of this, what I have found to reduce fuel consumption the most is to look ahead for any reason you might have to brake. If you see that the light is red ahead, take your foot off the gas and coast. The better you get at this the higher your MPG rating. Also, when you take your foot off the gas, you will notice that the charge/assist meter on the right will show a slight charge level. This is because the hybrid control system is interpreting your action as that of intentionally wanting to slow down. It takes advantage of this by tapping some of the kinetic energy of the car's motion to recharge the hybrid battery. You can take advantage of this feature as well. Let's say you see that the light ahead is red. You take your foot off the gas and coast. The hybrid control system takes an opportunity to slowly charge the battery. The car will slow down a bit because the electric motor is now being used as a generator. Next, when you are getting closer to the light, or the back of another car, lightly touch the brake pedal. A light touch on the pedal will tell the hybrid control system that you wish to deaccelerate at a higher rate. It will follow you by increasing the charge rate to the battery, slowing you down faster. This is regenerative braking. Note that with a light touch on the brake pedal, you are not yet activating the hydraulic disc brakes which simply convert the kinetic energy of the moving car into heat which is wasteful. At the last stage, depress the brake pedal firmly and the hydraulic brakes will bring the car to a complete stop. By doing this, you recover as much electrical energy as you can. This is energy that you will later not have to get from the gasoline.

Oh, and one more thing spunjurno, your headlights don't run off of the hybrid battery (100.8 Volts). Different circuit entirely. The hybrid battery is only used to run the traction motor. If you ran a battery down by having your lights on in traffic, it is the 12V accessory battery under the hood that was run down. The hybrid control computer on the Insight would never allow the situation you described.

Honda Insight MPG-Real World Numbers

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