true, but be glad you actually have 5spd transmission, the G6, the malibu only have a 4spd!! That is too little gears for me, I drove a G6 4cyl, and it was jumpy, and did not know what gear it wanted to pick. Only now they offer the 09 model with a 6spd, I have not driven that model, but I am sure its probably better, but it is no Honda engine.
There are many features offered on the Accord already, having the paddleshifters or built into the shiftgate, it would top it off for me. I think it offers some really nice performance benefits. For instance, driving on the interstate, you can move the gears when you want, or create more pull for accelerating. Some of you mentioned the push start, thats really neat. The Accord is already great, so any of this would just make it better.
I want a car that makes me smile. I want to love to drive again.
I have a gold '02 Accord V6 sedan auto. I don't remember when I bought this car, or where, or why. But I do like its essential Honda-ness and its Accord-ness.
The new Accord coupe looks incredible. A white V6 coupe first caught my attention, glimmering sexy and new under a street light. I saw a 6-speed stick inside and began to drool. But a 4-cyl stick might be just as fun to drive, get better mileage, look just as good, and weigh less for better handling.
A 4-cyl auto didn't occur to me. That's taking a breathtaking car and turning it into a yawn. Even without a test drive, I know that. But I'm intrigued by the 6-cyl VCM. Now I can have my power and mileage too? That's really cool, if it works. 5A tranny required, which makes sense, but could still be fun.
Last night I browsed a Honda dealer's lot and saw the rows of Accord sedans. No way. I found a white LX-S coupe and it wasn't knocking my socks off like the equivalent EX-L V6 around the corner. Why? I compared the two. The main thing I noticed were the wheels/tires. The 4-cyl has 17-inch rims with 50-series tires -- pretty aggressive! But the V6 with 18-inch rims looks MUCH better.
Really? I couldn't detect what else was different. But the V6 car, looks alone, were making me smile. The I4, not so much. Great. I save $3,000 on an EX-L 4cyl, then spend it back again on Honda's ridiculous $3,000 wheel upgrade? Might as well get the 6-cyl. Am I this vain? Apparently so! Every day I want a smile to hit me, before I even get into the car.
Then I read this forum. The chin is different, you say, and I also see chrome door handles. Do these things add up to a notably better looking package? Yes! Every single picture on Honda's web site and in the brochure are 6-cyl. Someone at Honda agrees: the 4cyl coupe isn't photogenic.
The posts here are informative. I still need to drive both the 4 and 6. I may still get a 4-cyl EX stick. Possibly disappointing mileage on the 2.4L engine would be a bummer -- and the VCM isn't smooth? I might expect to "feel" less power through my right foot while cruising if it went from 6-cyl to 4-cyl to 3-cyl. But there better not be any "jolt" to me or passengers, however slight. That'd drive me crazy -- as would flickering headlights. C'mon, people, I'm buying a Honda here, for a reason. Not a Hundai.
There sits my dilemma for a 2009 Accord Coupe: I4 stick, V6 stick, or V6 auto. And the question of whether $5,000 in my pocket can make up for the fact that a 4-cyl coupe would only stir my soul while driving in it, not looking at it.
I bought the V6 EX-L because I wanted the extra power, but so many are satisfied with the I4 that I wouldn't argue with that choice.
As for the VCM, many of the V6's don't seem to have the problem and, again, I ask Honda to do the right thing here instead of just stating it's within the acceptable parameters of the vehicle. I insisted on a long test drive, which included a lot of freeway driving, to, as fully as possible, test for this issue. Only when I honestly couldn't even feel the VCM kicking in, except by seeing the green light on the dash, did I finalize the deal. After 800 miles, I'm really enjoying the new Honda, but am knocking on wood that no problems occur while Honda is taking this attitude with those having the VCM issue.
Your heart seems to be on the V6, so that's what I'd suggest. But, like me, you should take a LONG test drive holding various speeds to trigger the VCM and see how well it does on your test vehicle.
Wow, great post midlifehonda!! It voiced all my thoughts on purchasing an Accord coupe! You forgot to mention the fog lights and the home link garage system on the V6!
I have a similar decision to make as I love the look of the V6 but I am unsure if I should just settle with the I4 (5 speed manual) with navigation for 3k cdn less.
Today at 2,000 miles on my EX-L 4cyl 5A coupe I am happier each day. While not a drag star this 4 banger does very well. Very well indeed. She pulls hard at 80 plus and runs up to and past 110-120 in short order. I'm sure not as easily as the V6 but in my case with gas becoming more and more expensive and traffic getting more and more unbearable with long runs of stop and crawl ahead movement I couldn't use the power I have plus I know I'd get real tired of this stop and crawl combined with a manual tranny. . .
If I had the car I would want it would be the V6 with the 6M trans but when could I use it like I'd like to use it. I'd rather have the big motor but I don't miss it at all.
This 4 banger auto was a compromise but one that I'm very pleased to have made. More so every day that goes by.
No test drive today, but I did take another after-dark stroll through a different Honda lot. My infatuation with the white coupe is fading, because of the beige interior. It feels too old-man-playing-golf. White on black would be fantastic, but there's no such option. Black-on-black is popular, but too gangsta and impractical for me.
They have a dark gray EX coupe on the lot with black interior. Very nice. The EX cloth is far superior to the LX cloth, and looks great in black. If it was a stick, I might buy that one tomorrow, or silver on black. The $25k price tag is looking sexier all the time, compared to $30k which quickly turns into $32k because the V6's I've seen also have navigation, which I don't want. That GPS is too pricey and feels like a theft magnet, to me.
A white EX-LV6 was across the lot from that metal-gray EX, both coupes, and I compared the front ends. I went rushing back and forth between them, crouching and staring like a sniper. I'm sure they'll review their security tapes wondering what the !$&@# that guy was doing. I can't see any difference in the noses. I think you all are crazy. There's a difference between coupe and sedan, but someone's going to have to show me photo evidence of coupe vs. coupe. Pop fog lights in the I4, and you're done.
I realized it's silly to let wheels & tires dictate a buying decision. If I want the I4, I should get the I4. The 17-inch rims do look rinky-dink, so either negotiate hard with the dealer on better rims, or have Tire Rack ship new ones for the dealer to install during delivery, including transferring the TPMS sensors. Surely there's some market for brand new stock EX rims? Same bolt pattern on older Accords?
The V6 rear deck spoiler is subtle and suave, but the I4 models allow for a tasteful rear wing I like. So tomorrow my infatuation will probably change again, especially if I drive the I4 and find it lacking, but today I'm visualizing my own custom coupe:
2009 Accord Coupe EX, 4-cyl stick Silver or gray exterior / black cloth interior ASA 18" rims and Yokohama tires Fog lights Rear spoiler Hands-free bluetooth
$27,400 and you'll only know me from a V6 by my non-chrome door handles and single exhaust. And lack of Mustang GT dusting at the light, but I'll still be smiling. I'm dying to try that free-spinning four-banger. I drove an early Integra VTEC stick once and it was exhilarating.
P.S. I'm really glad to hear there's no torque steer, even on the 6-cyl. Bravo.
I have homelink in my current Accord, and I don't use it because of home robbery risk when the car's in the driveway. I carry a garage opener key fob instead. Yes, paranoia, but I currently park outside. I'll probably clean the garage if I get a new car.
BTW with the V6 VCM, did I actually read that Honda pipes anti-vibration sound waves through the stereo to counteract the off-balance 3-cyl operation? C'mon! Does that work? Actually the spec sheet says that's in effect for the I4 engine as well. What if you turn the stereo off? I must be misunderstanding this.
For VCM, if you can turn off 3 cylinders and leave them off, why not rotate which ones are off, each cycle? It's take a little more RAM in the engine computer, but what the heck. So instead of this:
---456 ---456 ---456
It could rotate through
1-3-5- -2-4-6 1-3-5-
Or even:
1-34-- -2-45- --3-56 1-3-5- -2-4-6 --3-56
Etc. Mix it up enough, and there'll never be anything off-balance long enough for it to matter. No need to counter the effect with weird (nearly subsonic??) waves from the stereo. You could also do 5-cyl by rotating the one off cylinder each cycle:
12345- 1234-6 123-56 12-456 1-3456 -23456
Then go down to 4-cyl mode the same way, then down to 3-cyl ... I can't imagine this would be noticable or cause any sort of "jolt" effect for the occupants.
Honda engineers take note! Prior art published here! You saw it here first, folks. (?)
Well, perhaps the V6 Coupe with 6 MT - got my butt kicked yesterday in our '08 EXL V6 Sedan over about 200 yards against - I cannot believe this - a FORD Contour Sedan with V6!!! The VCM V6 is a slug in normal driving. Sure the testers get some good times - they take the car up to its stall limit with foot on the brake, and one on the accelerator, then release. That is not real world.
From a dead stop, foot off the brake and mash the accelerator? You'll get your butt kicked by some surprising cars. .
I am too obsessed with the Accord and honda in general..lol. I do let something small as wheels determine how I feel about the car. Sometimes there are really nice looking cars, but the wheels seem to be lacking. In order to get better wheels you would have to go up trim. I am glad the Accord has the same wheels from EX and up, and they look nice. I really like the accessory chrome wheels, but not for the $2k+ price that they have! Its too much, I have seen a pearl white V6 with the chrome wheels, and it looks awesome! But, you are going to pay out the roof for it. I have seen cars like this sit for awhile until someone either buys it for the price or the dealer lowered the price to move it. The rims are not even real chrome. Still look awesome! You have to admit though, new cars have been getting better rims, bigger rims these days. People want good rims to go with their ride, I am not a big fan of wheel covers...lol.
I could totally see myself getting a black/black V6 Accord coupe, or the Red! It would really look great with the chrome wheels on the black!
Didn't the Contour offer a 195 horse version for some time? I remember reading about the SVT Contour and it being quite the sports-sedan, beating an Audi and an Infiniti. I realize that doesn't make it a drag-star so much as it is a track-star, but still; it was a formidable car for its time, especially coming from Ford.
"SVT's version of Ford's Contour comes fully loaded, packed with real enthusiast hardware, and is capable of zero-to-60 mph sprints in just seven-and-a-half seconds."
Well, we never got to 60, and over a short 200-300 yard distance, with a stump puller 1st gear, he beats me, but perhaps to 60? If I get there a full second sooner, the Accord must make up the ground late in the race. I had it floored and he blew me away. Nope, I did not have a chance. :surprise:
One thing I thought I'd let you know about the Accessory HandsFreeLink - it does not output sound through the car's speakers but through its own speaker (does not mute car speakers either). I wish they did not force you to get the Navigation package in order to have this type of integration with your bluetooth phone
Also, the accessory HandsFreeLink is located on the top console vs. navigation HandsFreeLink on steering wheel
I owned an SVT Contour from 99 until around 03 when I bought a new Aztek. . . I know. . . I know. . .
Anyway that Contour was a very fine car but. . . I like my 08 EX-L 4 cyl coupe better. Its bigger, heavier, feels better all around and I think my 4cyl Honda would whip my old Contour in a fair fight. Honestly I think my Accord would be darn close if not just beat the Contour.
Talk about high revs, that's what the Contour's V6 had going for it. That engine was basically the same as the Yamaha engine that was in early SHO Taurus's only a bit smaller and I think they called it Duratec or some such.
Not to take anything away from that Contour as it was wonderful for its time. Road hugging fool with a V6 that would scream. IIRC the horsepower was around 200 when the Contour Sport's V6 was 175.
At one point I almost traded it for a 175hp Accord with a V6 but was dissapointed in that Accord's power. Maybe it was too heavy I don't know. I just remember my Contour being much stronger.
That SVT Contour might beat my new Honda but to me this new Honda just feels the same if not a little stronger. . . On top that is. . .
If you need an excuse for extra wheels, then just put snow tires on the stock wheels.
You may also be able to swap your 17's for some steelies of an LX Accord. This will mean a lower price for your car which can go towards new wheels. And you can still put snows on the steelies.
That's funny, because that's how I got sucked in. A 2009 Pearl White V6 EX-L with chrome wheels, chrome grill, spoiler, and more extras. I just couldn't get it out of my mind. I preferred a black leather combo, but my wife has been begging me to get the beige, despite all my reasons why black is better. Unlike most, I do like the color of the beige, but didn't want the hassle of keeping it clean, etc. Still, my kids too loved this car. I have done business with the salesperson before and he's just a great guy. I was offered the car with all the extras for pretty much the price of the Accord alone right off the bat. In other words, I paid pretty much the price of the car and they tossed in the extras at no charge. I knew I could bargain down more, but it seemed fair as the 2009's had just come out. It was kind of impulse and kind of not being hard up for money and wanting to treat the salesperson nicely, so I bought it, contingent on my test drive.
I'm happy. They're probably real happy. My wife and kids are happy.
By the way, the thing I like most is the chrome grill, although those wheels do look awfully sharp. That really adds to the front end appearance of the car.
As for the Pearl White, I love that color. I don't dislike their regular white, but the Pearl White is something I fell in love with on the Acuras. Not sure if it's exactly the same, but it impresses me the same.
Today I just happened to notice a white Acura TSX on the road with a family of 4 inside staring back at me, as I craned my neck checking out their ... black interior! Hmmm! White on black!
Back to 4 doors, but a sexy looking car to be sure, and of course costs as much as the Accord V6, but has a 201hp and 172 ft-lbs (!!) version of the 2.4L engine. That's gotta be worth a test drive! Endless decisions. Luckily I sense the chores of reality are going to tear me away from this obsession soon until ... this weekend. :shades:
Dudleyr - snow tires - great idea - thanks.
Effers - handsfree accessory warnings - yuck. There goes that idea. I'd rather have no handsfree than the accessory-version you describe. And I'm still thinking I4. That's okay, I don't talk much while driving, anyway, hands free or not.
Well we all know the SHO YAmaha V6 was an awesome engine so if the duratec is any relation, it explains some things, but not the discrepancy in 0-60 times, and being beaten so badly - at least a car lenght in 200-300 yards.
That car has to be so classy with all the pearl paint and chrome. That is probably the color I would get, it is probably one of the best colors you can get. You got lucky with the price! Some dealers will let you walk away, I know my dealer would. But, my point is, a dealer has to realize, that even with all the accessories, they can only bump the price so high. That is a way to bump it up legitimately, but sometimes, they have to move the car rather than have it sit on the lot longer.
I have never understood their logic, If were a manager, I would want to move all cars at a decent price, within reason. I have seen cars just sit for months on end. I test drove a car last spring, that is still sitting today! My logic for sales would be keep the cars moving! It does no good for them to keep them on the lot because they want a hair more on the price.I am not saying take a hit on the car, no way, but certainly meet them half way, and not nip pick. Sometimes you have to realize it is better off gone, and is certainly better than nothing. This would explain why this one salesmen at my local dealer is salesmen of the month all the time!! He keeps them moving, and knows his job. Its sad when I know more about the Accord than the salesmen. I personally would be good at selling, but I would'nt want to. Its tough. Another issue with me, I am 23, and look young, when I go in by myself, they pounce. I have to bring an older adult with me to get them to back off a bit, and take me seriously.
Who knows about salesmen, but most/all sales *managers* understand what they're paying/losing by keeping vehicles on the lot a long time. That car you drove in the spring probably has some undesirable feature about it that raises the price above the one next to it, or it gets worse mileage, or something. The market is depressed and nothing under 20 mpg is selling. If you want that car, you can probably get a killer deal on it.
Today I've freshly graduated from a 200-mile stint of self control, patiently driving like a grandma in my '02 Accord V6 automatic and managing to squeeze out a record 21 mpg around town. It was a nice day and I felt good. A little driving enthusiast vibe was coming on. The Acura dealership was closest, and the TSX sounded appealing, so I stopped in for a test drive.
I took my 360 degree visual tour around the 2009 model, which is apparently a whole new look from 2008. It is an impressive looking machine. Sharp, clean lines. It manages to ride on 17" rims without having wheel envy, like the Accord. There is no bad angle looking at this car. It invites you to drive. If you can peel yourself away from looking at it.
Opening the driver's door gives you that "wow, quality to spare" sensation. I had to close it again, for that satisfying THUMP without a hint of rattle. Then open it again.
The interior is all luxury. The leather is stitched and feels like it could last a lifetime without fading. You are enveloped in this car, but there is elbow room. I'm 6'3" @ 220 lbs and was very comfortable. I climbed in back and felt equally at home. I opened the trunk. What can I say? It's a trunk.
Back in the driver's seat, engine running. It's a nice sound. I back up and notice how easy this car is to turn. The steering wheel glides with a certain amount of prescribed resistance without actually taking effort. The salesman informs me this is drive-by-wire steering, just like the throttle. Right, whatever. It's smooth.
I put the car in 1st gear and ease off the clutch. The clutch pedal snags on the rubber floor mat on its way up. The floor mat is huge and is hitched in place, so I fail to easily find a way to solve this problem. I mention all this because the floor mat was the only mechanical "flaw" or distraction I encountered in my test drive. Onward.
The car's handling is impeccable. It feels sure of itself, made to turn and twist with a sense of quiet command. The VTEC (okay, jeez, i-VTEC) tone of the engine is present and remotely inspiring, but muffled so you can pass the Grey Poupon without being overwhelmed with noise.
Shifting through the gears is not what I would call a satisfying "snick" of the shifter. More like an intuitive ... actually I can't finish this sentence. I have no idea how the shifter felt, because I didn't notice it. I think that counts as praise.
I did notice the gas peddle because as I drove, after a while I got the impression that maybe I was flooring it without meaning to. Sure enough, that was it. No more room to press down any further. I let up and pressed down again. You only get an inch or two down there. It's not distracting, but maybe I was subconsciously hoping for more, a little disappointed this was all the engine had to give.
Sure enough, I gave it every benefit of the doubt, and maybe my expectations were too high, but it just didn't push me into my seat at all, even during a spirited downshift. Oh, the engine *sounds* like it's pushing me into my seat, but it's not.
Driving, turning, shifting up, shifting down, I stirred it all around. The car is fantastic at turning. Any twisty road is yours to conquer. It's pretty damn good at stopping (although I didn't feel the need to abuse this car with 3 miles on its odometer to a brutal braking test). I think this luxury ride is just a touch too heavy to impress me with acceleration.
I also drove an automatic model -- with paddle shifters. I was intrigued by these, again with high expectations. Unfortunately after the first minute or two, you realize they are basically a toy. They don't feel cheap, and they function. They work perfectly well to choose gears. The transmission responds with a fairly snappy "yes sir" to each command. It's just a little disappointing to rev this luxurious beauty with its gas pedal all 1.5 inches to the floor, upshift, hear the engine note drop expectantly to rise again, and feel ... nothing.
Again, the roaring sound can trick you, muffled as it is. There is adequate torque for this big car to not embarrass itself, but there's no actual ... power. I'm sure a Honda VTEC engineer in Japan is pulling out his suicide sword reading this. I'm very sorry, it may be one of the most amazing feats of affordable ingenuity that can be squeezed out of 2.4L, but it's not enough for this guy. I must be more spoiled than I thought by my Accord V6.
I took a corner a little fast while accelerating, and managed to break loose the front end, a little more easily than I expected. The computer corrected my sin, causing an awkward brief hopping of the powered front wheels. That was weird. I'm not used to that in my Accord, even though it has more power and is also front-drive, of course. Maybe I just hit a bump wrong.
They didn't have white on black in a stick shift. They do have a jaw dropping "basque red pearl" model (don't even bother with the web site -- you must see this dark, earthy red in person) with a black interior and an automatic on the showroom floor. Tempting.
If I got into the mindset of enjoying a truly luxurious car, and then found myself smiling even more knowing I got into this market for under $30k, this would be a perfect car. But as much as I like a real clutch and gear shift, I would get an automatic in this one. A stick in a TSX becomes tedious because you can't really feel what you're doing. You're so sunk in luxury, the engine note is so far away, and your hands and feet are so isolated from the experience, what's the point? Just let the tranny drive itself, like it wants to. If the paddle shifters cost more, I wouldn't even bother. The novelty will wear off, and you'll never use the paddles except to impress your friends.
I've also driven a 2008 BMW 135i, 328i, and 335i: Baby bear, mama bear, papa bear. I would choose mama bear over the TSX purely for the driving experience. The BMW I6 puts real power in the seat of your pants; rear drive is where it's at; and the shifter *is* noticeable, in a good way. It manages the same gas mileage, if I recall. But the Beemer is at least $5k more and the TSX looks sexier. I can see how different tastes could steer buyers either way. Both cars are tight and dominate the road.
Next time: the Accord coupe: can it shed enough weight off the padded TSX to impress me?
Definitely one of the best reviews of a car I remember reading in a nice long time. Thank you for sharing. I hope you'll share it with the Acura TSX forum as well!
Great Review! I have been really think about the TSX, I would love to lease one next spring. I think it looks amazing. I am mainly interested in its engine!
I wonder how much power it really has compared to the Accord 4cyl. Since the 190hp is pretty close to the 201hp.
Well, The car I looked at back in the spring that is still there was an 08 Passat Komfort, royal blue color, $29k. It had a lease sale that made it the same lease as the Jetta! But, the interior was not anywhere like the Jetta feel. I feel that is the draw back of the car. Why I didn't buy it! Hard plastic doors, weird seats. Beautiful exterior though! Now they no longer offer a sale on them, so they sit. The Jetta is so much more car than that. If they could work the interior, then it would be up to snuff.
There are a few Hondas that sit for months too, but that is because of some hard up dealers. Like the 08's, they'll sit for awhile. It took awhile to even see an 08 Accord on the road. Dealers bumping the price up over $30k, into Acura territory. That was crazy...lol. Reality check people. I don't think they can do that as much now, with the economy the way it is.
I nearly bought a Passat as well, but after 5 years of owning a VW GTI, I got tired of the all the little things breaking and frequent trips to the dealer. I'm seeing a lot more new Accords on the road now, and I don't think the dealers are sitting on the 08's at all. Considering that you can buy a v6 EXL (w/o Nav) for about $25k before TTL, I think the car is a bargain. I shopped everything before getting my V6 EXL, and nothing came close in terms of quality, features, and price.
I've seen some posts here lauding the inclusion of things like chrome door handles, dual chrome exhaust tips (this isn't a true dual exhaust config), spoilers, wheels, etc.
On the one hand, there are some that like the "bling". Personally, I like the sportier monochromatic look. I wish there was less chrome, not more. Spoilers are something I never did understand. They serve no purpose in a car like an Accord (or a Camry, or a Malibu, etc). Unless you're driving a Cobra, a 'vette, or something with a lot more performance potential, spoilers are useless in my book.
'08s are all but gone in my area. You may find a "demo" around that's still an '08. but that's about it.
Just curious... How does it differ from a "true dual exhaust system"? I haven't climbed under mine to look. I figured there were headers coming off the 2 cylinder banks feeding into the cat converters & 2 mufflers and finishing at the tailpipes, which admittedly on the Accord are a little "over styled" for my liking. Ditto on the spoilers on a family sedan, that look never worked for me. I think the chrome works better on some colors then others.
dp....a true dual exhaust would have two sets of headers (or manifolds) coming off of each side of the bank of 3 cylinders on a V6. They, you'd have two mufflers/cat converters coming off the manifolds. Then two pipes off those to the exhaust out the back. The result would be a freer breathing exhaust cycle, resulting in more power.
On the Accord, you've got both banks of cylinders feeding into a single muffler/cat. They only split in the rear to two small exhaust pipes. For all intents and purposes, it's only an excuse to give the car the "appearance" of dual exhausts with none of the benefits. Kind of frivolous, both from a cost standpoint, as well as a performance standpoint.
268hp vs 190 chrome handles vs painted handles duals vs single exaust fog lights vs no fog lights 18in wheels vs 17 electric passenger seat vs manual (EX-L) big rear view mirror vs smaller mirror gas struts vs lift up hood support
I know there is more but can't think straight right now. . .
I got curious enough to take a look under my 08 V6 and it looks pretty much as you described with the exception that there are 2 mufflers or "silencers" as Honda calls them. I suppose a true dual exhaust system for a family sedan at this price level would be expecting a little to much. The link at the end of this post will take you to a site that quotes most of the changes to the 08 powertrain and states a 38% improvement in exhaust flow over the previous 6 cyl. Totaling all the improvements claimed at this site, and I'm sure they're quoting Honda's numbers, you would think that the 08-09 V6 Accord would be a rocket compared to the Gen 7 V6, but all those gains seem to be nullified by it's increased weight and were necessary to maintain parity with the previous 6 cyl.
"...you would think that the 08-09 V6 Accord would be a rocket compared to the Gen 7 V6, but all those gains seem to be nullified by it's increased weight and were necessary to maintain parity with the previous 6 cyl."
You hit the nail on the head - if you look at lbs/hp there is essentially no difference between the two, so performance is relatively the same. VCM was necessary on top of all that to keep MPG somewhere within reason. WEIGHT is a BAD thing. Honda needs to go on a major diet. A 3600 pound Honda?? My 396 Camaro SS/RS Convertible weighs less than that! And it has that enormously heavy engine and reiinforced frame because of its being a convertible!
My 396 Camaro SS/RS Convertible weighs less than that!
Nice car, BTW. Unfortunately, the weight distribution of that car is probably something like 70-30, which would hamper everything except going in a straight line.
Posted over in the Acura forum. Went to the "official" unveiling of the TL last night.....the Accord's big brother.
Obviously a lot more "content" in the TL. A lot more power to boot.
But, you could feel the common "family traits" between the two. Lots of shared engineering DNA regarding the feel of the Accord vs the TL.
TL is a very nice car in it's '09 clothes, BTW. Of course, it's also about $7K-$8K more than a V6 Accord EX-L w/Nav.
it just does everything better, though....sometimes by a large margin.
it just does everything better, though....sometimes by a large margin.
Just took a peak at the TL web page. Yow, what a machine! But like everything else, you get what you pay for. So at $7-8K more, it ought to do everything better. But for people looking for the most bang for the buck, the Accord should do just fine.
As per a suggestion by Pat, I posted the pictures of my Accord in the 2009 Honda Accord thread. Unfortunately, they don't do the car justice at all. Hopefully, you'll be able to see one in person though.
"My 396 Camaro SS/RS Convertible weighs less than that!
Nice car, BTW. Unfortunately, the weight distribution of that car is probably something like 70-30, which would hamper everything except going in a straight line."
Thank you - '68 350HP TH400 pure stock. Had it since 1969 when I bought it used - salesman's wife's car!
Weight dist is about 64/36 actually and yeah, handling is NOT its forte that is for sure! . That was why the Z28, which was NEVER intended to be the "drag" car but with its 302 (327 with 283 crank) 290 HP 6500 redline was brought out - that and to homologate it for Trans Am racing. Back then you had to actually sell what you raced and could get it with 2x4 BBL and 4 wheel disc brakes.
I debated getting a used TL instead of the'08 Accord - fantastic sound system, and no VCM, but requires Premium. And my darling wife prefers new cars. I have had good luck with every used car I have bought, and the Acuras? Bulletproof.
You will never get a FWD car to perform like a RWD, the weight distribution not being a lot different from the Camaro! Hard to get a FWD car into a four wheel drift. Best handling car I have ever driven - test drive a used one for fun sometime - the S2000. Corners as if on rails, and acceleration in VTC will shock you - literally, if you have never experienced it. I had read about it, heard about it, etc. but then drove one - WOW.
Comments
There are many features offered on the Accord already, having the paddleshifters or built into the shiftgate, it would top it off for me. I think it offers some really nice performance benefits. For instance, driving on the interstate, you can move the gears when you want, or create more pull for accelerating. Some of you mentioned the push start, thats really neat. The Accord is already great, so any of this would just make it better.
I have a gold '02 Accord V6 sedan auto. I don't remember when I bought this car, or where, or why. But I do like its essential Honda-ness and its Accord-ness.
The new Accord coupe looks incredible. A white V6 coupe first caught my attention, glimmering sexy and new under a street light. I saw a 6-speed stick inside and began to drool. But a 4-cyl stick might be just as fun to drive, get better mileage, look just as good, and weigh less for better handling.
A 4-cyl auto didn't occur to me. That's taking a breathtaking car and turning it into a yawn. Even without a test drive, I know that. But I'm intrigued by the 6-cyl VCM. Now I can have my power and mileage too? That's really cool, if it works. 5A tranny required, which makes sense, but could still be fun.
Last night I browsed a Honda dealer's lot and saw the rows of Accord sedans. No way. I found a white LX-S coupe and it wasn't knocking my socks off like the equivalent EX-L V6 around the corner. Why? I compared the two. The main thing I noticed were the wheels/tires. The 4-cyl has 17-inch rims with 50-series tires -- pretty aggressive! But the V6 with 18-inch rims looks MUCH better.
Really? I couldn't detect what else was different. But the V6 car, looks alone, were making me smile. The I4, not so much. Great. I save $3,000 on an EX-L 4cyl, then spend it back again on Honda's ridiculous $3,000 wheel upgrade? Might as well get the 6-cyl. Am I this vain? Apparently so! Every day I want a smile to hit me, before I even get into the car.
Then I read this forum. The chin is different, you say, and I also see chrome door handles. Do these things add up to a notably better looking package? Yes! Every single picture on Honda's web site and in the brochure are 6-cyl. Someone at Honda agrees: the 4cyl coupe isn't photogenic.
The posts here are informative. I still need to drive both the 4 and 6. I may still get a 4-cyl EX stick. Possibly disappointing mileage on the 2.4L engine would be a bummer -- and the VCM isn't smooth? I might expect to "feel" less power through my right foot while cruising if it went from 6-cyl to 4-cyl to 3-cyl. But there better not be any "jolt" to me or passengers, however slight. That'd drive me crazy -- as would flickering headlights. C'mon, people, I'm buying a Honda here, for a reason. Not a Hundai.
There sits my dilemma for a 2009 Accord Coupe: I4 stick, V6 stick, or V6 auto. And the question of whether $5,000 in my pocket can make up for the fact that a 4-cyl coupe would only stir my soul while driving in it, not looking at it.
As for the VCM, many of the V6's don't seem to have the problem and, again, I ask Honda to do the right thing here instead of just stating it's within the acceptable parameters of the vehicle. I insisted on a long test drive, which included a lot of freeway driving, to, as fully as possible, test for this issue. Only when I honestly couldn't even feel the VCM kicking in, except by seeing the green light on the dash, did I finalize the deal. After 800 miles, I'm really enjoying the new Honda, but am knocking on wood that no problems occur while Honda is taking this attitude with those having the VCM issue.
Your heart seems to be on the V6, so that's what I'd suggest. But, like me, you should take a LONG test drive holding various speeds to trigger the VCM and see how well it does on your test vehicle.
I have a similar decision to make as I love the look of the V6 but I am unsure if I should just settle with the I4 (5 speed manual) with navigation for 3k cdn less.
Keep us updated on your test drives!
If I had the car I would want it would be the V6 with the 6M trans but when could I use it like I'd like to use it. I'd rather have the big motor but I don't miss it at all.
This 4 banger auto was a compromise but one that I'm very pleased to have made. More so every day that goes by.
They have a dark gray EX coupe on the lot with black interior. Very nice. The EX cloth is far superior to the LX cloth, and looks great in black. If it was a stick, I might buy that one tomorrow, or silver on black. The $25k price tag is looking sexier all the time, compared to $30k which quickly turns into $32k because the V6's I've seen also have navigation, which I don't want. That GPS is too pricey and feels like a theft magnet, to me.
A white EX-LV6 was across the lot from that metal-gray EX, both coupes, and I compared the front ends. I went rushing back and forth between them, crouching and staring like a sniper. I'm sure they'll review their security tapes wondering what the !$&@# that guy was doing. I can't see any difference in the noses. I think you all are crazy. There's a difference between coupe and sedan, but someone's going to have to show me photo evidence of coupe vs. coupe. Pop fog lights in the I4, and you're done.
I realized it's silly to let wheels & tires dictate a buying decision. If I want the I4, I should get the I4. The 17-inch rims do look rinky-dink, so either negotiate hard with the dealer on better rims, or have Tire Rack ship new ones for the dealer to install during delivery, including transferring the TPMS sensors. Surely there's some market for brand new stock EX rims? Same bolt pattern on older Accords?
The V6 rear deck spoiler is subtle and suave, but the I4 models allow for a tasteful rear wing I like. So tomorrow my infatuation will probably change again, especially if I drive the I4 and find it lacking, but today I'm visualizing my own custom coupe:
2009 Accord Coupe EX, 4-cyl stick
Silver or gray exterior / black cloth interior
ASA 18" rims and Yokohama tires
Fog lights
Rear spoiler
Hands-free bluetooth
$27,400 and you'll only know me from a V6 by my non-chrome door handles and single exhaust. And lack of Mustang GT dusting at the light, but I'll still be smiling. I'm dying to try that free-spinning four-banger. I drove an early Integra VTEC stick once and it was exhilarating.
P.S. I'm really glad to hear there's no torque steer, even on the 6-cyl. Bravo.
BTW with the V6 VCM, did I actually read that Honda pipes anti-vibration sound waves through the stereo to counteract the off-balance 3-cyl operation? C'mon! Does that work? Actually the spec sheet says that's in effect for the I4 engine as well. What if you turn the stereo off? I must be misunderstanding this.
For VCM, if you can turn off 3 cylinders and leave them off, why not rotate which ones are off, each cycle? It's take a little more RAM in the engine computer, but what the heck. So instead of this:
---456
---456
---456
It could rotate through
1-3-5-
-2-4-6
1-3-5-
Or even:
1-34--
-2-45-
--3-56
1-3-5-
-2-4-6
--3-56
Etc. Mix it up enough, and there'll never be anything off-balance long enough for it to matter. No need to counter the effect with weird (nearly subsonic??) waves from the stereo. You could also do 5-cyl by rotating the one off cylinder each cycle:
12345-
1234-6
123-56
12-456
1-3456
-23456
Then go down to 4-cyl mode the same way, then down to 3-cyl ... I can't imagine this would be noticable or cause any sort of "jolt" effect for the occupants.
Honda engineers take note! Prior art published here! You saw it here first, folks. (?)
From a dead stop, foot off the brake and mash the accelerator? You'll get your butt kicked by some surprising cars.
I could totally see myself getting a black/black V6 Accord coupe, or the Red!
It would really look great with the chrome wheels on the black!
I don't need a V6, but would be fun!
Check out the differences in weight for both vehicles. In 2000, it was 2769 lbs for the Contour. The Accord is around 3600.
Also, the Contour probably had a manual transmission. You never had a chance. :shades:
Well, we never got to 60, and over a short 200-300 yard distance, with a stump puller 1st gear, he beats me, but perhaps to 60? If I get there a full second sooner, the Accord must make up the ground late in the race. I had it floored and he blew me away. Nope, I did not have a chance. :surprise:
One thing I thought I'd let you know about the Accessory HandsFreeLink - it does not output sound through the car's speakers but through its own speaker (does not mute car speakers either). I wish they did not force you to get the Navigation package in order to have this type of integration with your bluetooth phone
Also, the accessory HandsFreeLink is located on the top console vs. navigation HandsFreeLink on steering wheel
Anyway that Contour was a very fine car but. . . I like my 08 EX-L 4 cyl coupe better. Its bigger, heavier, feels better all around and I think my 4cyl Honda would whip my old Contour in a fair fight. Honestly I think my Accord would be darn close if not just beat the Contour.
Talk about high revs, that's what the Contour's V6 had going for it. That engine was basically the same as the Yamaha engine that was in early SHO Taurus's only a bit smaller and I think they called it Duratec or some such.
Not to take anything away from that Contour as it was wonderful for its time. Road hugging fool with a V6 that would scream. IIRC the horsepower was around 200 when the Contour Sport's V6 was 175.
At one point I almost traded it for a 175hp Accord with a V6 but was dissapointed in that Accord's power. Maybe it was too heavy I don't know. I just remember my Contour being much stronger.
That SVT Contour might beat my new Honda but to me this new Honda just feels the same if not a little stronger. . . On top that is. . .
If you need an excuse for extra wheels, then just put snow tires on the stock wheels.
You may also be able to swap your 17's for some steelies of an LX Accord. This will mean a lower price for your car which can go towards new wheels. And you can still put snows on the steelies.
I'm happy. They're probably real happy. My wife and kids are happy.
By the way, the thing I like most is the chrome grill, although those wheels do look awfully sharp. That really adds to the front end appearance of the car.
As for the Pearl White, I love that color. I don't dislike their regular white, but the Pearl White is something I fell in love with on the Acuras. Not sure if it's exactly the same, but it impresses me the same.
Back to 4 doors, but a sexy looking car to be sure, and of course costs as much as the Accord V6, but has a 201hp and 172 ft-lbs (!!) version of the 2.4L engine. That's gotta be worth a test drive! Endless decisions. Luckily I sense the chores of reality are going to tear me away from this obsession soon until ... this weekend. :shades:
Dudleyr - snow tires - great idea - thanks.
Effers - handsfree accessory warnings - yuck. There goes that idea. I'd rather have no handsfree than the accessory-version you describe. And I'm still thinking I4. That's okay, I don't talk much while driving, anyway, hands free or not.
I have never understood their logic, If were a manager, I would want to move all cars at a decent price, within reason. I have seen cars just sit for months on end. I test drove a car last spring, that is still sitting today! My logic for sales would be keep the cars moving! It does no good for them to keep them on the lot because they want a hair more on the price.I am not saying take a hit on the car, no way, but certainly meet them half way, and not nip pick. Sometimes you have to realize it is better off gone, and is certainly better than nothing. This would explain why this one salesmen at my local dealer is salesmen of the month all the time!! He keeps them moving, and knows his job. Its sad when I know more about the Accord than the salesmen. I personally would be good at selling, but I would'nt want to. Its tough. Another issue with me, I am 23, and look young, when I go in by myself, they pounce. I have to bring an older adult with me to get them to back off a bit, and take me seriously.
Meet one of my dogs.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/danbry39/IMG_0092-1.jpg<img src="
I took my 360 degree visual tour around the 2009 model, which is apparently a whole new look from 2008. It is an impressive looking machine. Sharp, clean lines. It manages to ride on 17" rims without having wheel envy, like the Accord. There is no bad angle looking at this car. It invites you to drive. If you can peel yourself away from looking at it.
Opening the driver's door gives you that "wow, quality to spare" sensation. I had to close it again, for that satisfying THUMP without a hint of rattle. Then open it again.
The interior is all luxury. The leather is stitched and feels like it could last a lifetime without fading. You are enveloped in this car, but there is elbow room. I'm 6'3" @ 220 lbs and was very comfortable. I climbed in back and felt equally at home. I opened the trunk. What can I say? It's a trunk.
Back in the driver's seat, engine running. It's a nice sound. I back up and notice how easy this car is to turn. The steering wheel glides with a certain amount of prescribed resistance without actually taking effort. The salesman informs me this is drive-by-wire steering, just like the throttle. Right, whatever. It's smooth.
I put the car in 1st gear and ease off the clutch. The clutch pedal snags on the rubber floor mat on its way up. The floor mat is huge and is hitched in place, so I fail to easily find a way to solve this problem. I mention all this because the floor mat was the only mechanical "flaw" or distraction I encountered in my test drive. Onward.
The car's handling is impeccable. It feels sure of itself, made to turn and twist with a sense of quiet command. The VTEC (okay, jeez, i-VTEC) tone of the engine is present and remotely inspiring, but muffled so you can pass the Grey Poupon without being overwhelmed with noise.
Shifting through the gears is not what I would call a satisfying "snick" of the shifter. More like an intuitive ... actually I can't finish this sentence. I have no idea how the shifter felt, because I didn't notice it. I think that counts as praise.
I did notice the gas peddle because as I drove, after a while I got the impression that maybe I was flooring it without meaning to. Sure enough, that was it. No more room to press down any further. I let up and pressed down again. You only get an inch or two down there. It's not distracting, but maybe I was subconsciously hoping for more, a little disappointed this was all the engine had to give.
Sure enough, I gave it every benefit of the doubt, and maybe my expectations were too high, but it just didn't push me into my seat at all, even during a spirited downshift. Oh, the engine *sounds* like it's pushing me into my seat, but it's not.
Driving, turning, shifting up, shifting down, I stirred it all around. The car is fantastic at turning. Any twisty road is yours to conquer. It's pretty damn good at stopping (although I didn't feel the need to abuse this car with 3 miles on its odometer to a brutal braking test). I think this luxury ride is just a touch too heavy to impress me with acceleration.
I also drove an automatic model -- with paddle shifters. I was intrigued by these, again with high expectations. Unfortunately after the first minute or two, you realize they are basically a toy. They don't feel cheap, and they function. They work perfectly well to choose gears. The transmission responds with a fairly snappy "yes sir" to each command. It's just a little disappointing to rev this luxurious beauty with its gas pedal all 1.5 inches to the floor, upshift, hear the engine note drop expectantly to rise again, and feel ... nothing.
Again, the roaring sound can trick you, muffled as it is. There is adequate torque for this big car to not embarrass itself, but there's no actual ... power. I'm sure a Honda VTEC engineer in Japan is pulling out his suicide sword reading this. I'm very sorry, it may be one of the most amazing feats of affordable ingenuity that can be squeezed out of 2.4L, but it's not enough for this guy. I must be more spoiled than I thought by my Accord V6.
I took a corner a little fast while accelerating, and managed to break loose the front end, a little more easily than I expected. The computer corrected my sin, causing an awkward brief hopping of the powered front wheels. That was weird. I'm not used to that in my Accord, even though it has more power and is also front-drive, of course. Maybe I just hit a bump wrong.
They didn't have white on black in a stick shift. They do have a jaw dropping "basque red pearl" model (don't even bother with the web site -- you must see this dark, earthy red in person) with a black interior and an automatic on the showroom floor. Tempting.
If I got into the mindset of enjoying a truly luxurious car, and then found myself smiling even more knowing I got into this market for under $30k, this would be a perfect car. But as much as I like a real clutch and gear shift, I would get an automatic in this one. A stick in a TSX becomes tedious because you can't really feel what you're doing. You're so sunk in luxury, the engine note is so far away, and your hands and feet are so isolated from the experience, what's the point? Just let the tranny drive itself, like it wants to. If the paddle shifters cost more, I wouldn't even bother. The novelty will wear off, and you'll never use the paddles except to impress your friends.
I've also driven a 2008 BMW 135i, 328i, and 335i: Baby bear, mama bear, papa bear. I would choose mama bear over the TSX purely for the driving experience. The BMW I6 puts real power in the seat of your pants; rear drive is where it's at; and the shifter *is* noticeable, in a good way. It manages the same gas mileage, if I recall. But the Beemer is at least $5k more and the TSX looks sexier. I can see how different tastes could steer buyers either way. Both cars are tight and dominate the road.
Next time: the Accord coupe: can it shed enough weight off the padded TSX to impress me?
Welcome to Edmunds.
TheGraduate
I wonder how much power it really has compared to the Accord 4cyl. Since the 190hp is pretty close to the 201hp.
There are a few Hondas that sit for months too, but that is because of some hard up dealers. Like the 08's, they'll sit for awhile. It took awhile to even see an 08 Accord on the road. Dealers bumping the price up over $30k, into Acura territory. That was crazy...lol. Reality check people. I don't think they can do that as much now, with the economy the way it is.
On the one hand, there are some that like the "bling". Personally, I like the sportier monochromatic look. I wish there was less chrome, not more. Spoilers are something I never did understand. They serve no purpose in a car like an Accord (or a Camry, or a Malibu, etc). Unless you're driving a Cobra, a 'vette, or something with a lot more performance potential, spoilers are useless in my book.
'08s are all but gone in my area. You may find a "demo" around that's still an '08. but that's about it.
On the Accord, you've got both banks of cylinders feeding into a single muffler/cat. They only split in the rear to two small exhaust pipes. For all intents and purposes, it's only an excuse to give the car the "appearance" of dual exhausts with none of the benefits. Kind of frivolous, both from a cost standpoint, as well as a performance standpoint.
There are lots of other places to continue these offshoots - have a look at this list for starters.
268hp vs 190
chrome handles vs painted handles
duals vs single exaust
fog lights vs no fog lights
18in wheels vs 17
electric passenger seat vs manual (EX-L)
big rear view mirror vs smaller mirror
gas struts vs lift up hood support
I know there is more but can't think straight right now. . .
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/2008-Honda-Accord-Powertrain.html
You hit the nail on the head - if you look at lbs/hp there is essentially no difference between the two, so performance is relatively the same. VCM was necessary on top of all that to keep MPG somewhere within reason. WEIGHT is a BAD thing.
Honda needs to go on a major diet. A 3600 pound Honda?? My 396 Camaro SS/RS Convertible weighs less than that! And it has that enormously heavy engine and reiinforced frame because of its being a convertible!
Nice car, BTW. Unfortunately, the weight distribution of that car is probably something like 70-30, which would hamper everything except going in a straight line.
Posted over in the Acura forum. Went to the "official" unveiling of the TL last night.....the Accord's big brother.
Obviously a lot more "content" in the TL. A lot more power to boot.
But, you could feel the common "family traits" between the two. Lots of shared engineering DNA regarding the feel of the Accord vs the TL.
TL is a very nice car in it's '09 clothes, BTW. Of course, it's also about $7K-$8K more than a V6 Accord EX-L w/Nav.
it just does everything better, though....sometimes by a large margin.
Just took a peak at the TL web page. Yow, what a machine!
But like everything else, you get what you pay for.
So at $7-8K more, it ought to do everything better.
But for people looking for the most bang for the buck, the Accord should do just fine.
Nice car, BTW. Unfortunately, the weight distribution of that car is probably something like 70-30, which would hamper everything except going in a straight line."
Thank you - '68 350HP TH400 pure stock. Had it since 1969 when I bought it used - salesman's wife's car!
Weight dist is about 64/36 actually and yeah, handling is NOT its forte that is for sure! . That was why the Z28, which was NEVER intended to be the "drag" car but with its 302 (327 with 283 crank) 290 HP 6500 redline was brought out - that and to homologate it for Trans Am racing. Back then you had to actually sell what you raced and could get it with 2x4 BBL and 4 wheel disc brakes.
I debated getting a used TL instead of the'08 Accord - fantastic sound system, and no VCM, but requires Premium. And my darling wife prefers new cars. I have had good luck with every used car I have bought, and the Acuras? Bulletproof.
You will never get a FWD car to perform like a RWD, the weight distribution not being a lot different from the Camaro! Hard to get a FWD car into a four wheel drift. Best handling car I have ever driven - test drive a used one for fun sometime - the S2000. Corners as if on rails, and acceleration in VTC will shock you - literally, if you have never experienced it. I had read about it, heard about it, etc. but then drove one - WOW.