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Traffic Laws & Enforcement Tactics

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Comments

  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    "Exactly what type of medical help do cops provide?"

    Triage is NOT a medical term.

    It's root is to "sort according to importance". It is indeed used quite often in medical conditions but is not restricted to that.

    Police often run a "triage" response in times of great emergency or extreme conditions requiring their services... Unfortunately this seems to be happening more often.

    Oh, and the "quota" thing is urban legend. Invented by people with numerous traffic offenses trying to explain away why they get so many tickets.
  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    No..... I've never gotten a ticket. I got a warning once, but never a ticket.

    I guess that makes me a freak for this forum.

    I routinely drive over the speed limit also. Passed by a trap the other day and she (female cop) didn't seem to notice.

    Like I said; If you want to play you gotta pay.

    kylerenfrew is still right.
  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    People go 5-10 over because they know that's almost always the tolerance police will allow for NOT stopping anyone for speeding.

    I have very little experience with 75 mph speed limits, but even next door in W. VA. where the speed limit is generally 70 on the interstates, you have lots of people going 75, 80, or higher. It gets really interesting when old "Pops McCoy" gets on the freeway to go from one exit to the next in his rattletrap pickup that can't go over 50!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,390
    >Oh, and the "quota" thing is urban legend

    That's not true. If an officer is not doing "enough" traffic control, they may be evaluated lower, even if the jurisdiction doesn't have a quota, formal or informal. An officer in our fair jurisdiction quit a year ago because of the increased emphasis on traffic control. We're getting an influx of "city" drivers as people move to the burbs and our officers are having to do more moving violation work and traffic "presence" if not ticket writing. She became an elementary teacher. She had been working toward certification for years.

    I'll ask another policeman friend of ours. His wife was here today but I rarely see him because he's working. I'll ask her.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    My brother's a cop.

    There is NO quota! They have briefings on "problem areas" that they try to concentrate on, a troublesome area of highway, but that's it.

    By the way he's retiring and that's not good... He use to love giving warnings to people (so much for the quota dogma), thought that actually was better for safety. The cop that replaces him might not entertain this friendlier notion however.

    Yeah, everybody hates cops until you need them. Same old song and dance.... Pathetic.
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    There is NO quota! They have briefings on "problem areas" that they try to concentrate on, a troublesome area of highway, but that's it.

    I've had 3 speeding tickets in 30 years of driving. I thought they were all unwarranted. One time I was driving through the middle of the desert in Nevada, going 70 in a 55. I don't know where this cop was hiding because the road was perfectly straight for as far as you could see. I guess this was one of those problem areas that he must have gotten briefed on. I personally don't see how a road could be any safer and I'm sure the limit is now 65 or 70. When I was receiving this ticket I remember thinking what a crime buster this cop was and what a valuable service he was providing society.
  • gasmizrgasmizr Posts: 40
    Just found this board, interesting. I live in NY and there is "war" going on between the local judges and the state police for a while now. The state police commander has put down a guideline that there will no longer be any pleading down for tickets written so lots of them are getting thrown out by local traffic courts. One of our local magistrates just threw out over 400 tickets a few months ago.

    Personally I do not trust radar or laser. Unless the cop is almost straight on and you are the only thing in sight the chances or error increase exponentially. The fact that the local judges and prosecutors plead most speeding tickets down lets you know it is all about the revenue and getting people through the system as quickly as possible.

    Target people who are driving recklessly or to aggressive for traffic conditions, and people who are driving impaired. The rest should be left off with a warning at most.

    I lived in Boston in the late 80's and they did a test on a stretch of road that was posted 35. People under good conditions usually drove about 45-50 at most. They raised the speed limit to 45. Guess what, people still drove 45-50 and when they raised it to 55, people still drove 45-50. They also surveyed people to ask then why they drove that speed. Answer, appeared to be safe and reasonable for the area and road conditions.

    I also lived in MI when they raised the limit to 70. On those long lonely stretches of interstate people drove 75-80 when the speed limit was 55 and they still drove those speeds when the limit was raised. Most people know what is safe and prudent for road conditions and drive that way. People do not for the most part think, I am going to speed here but not here just to speed.

    Another thing, try driving on I87 heading into NYC in the morning from the burbs and do 65, you will get killed with lots of dirty looks even in the slow lane. Average speed in 75-80 with people do 85-90 in the fast lane. Usually no problems till an officer shows up then all the tail lights go red and you have an accident. What you do not want is the person cutting and weaving through this traffic. That person needs a ticket and is a problem to the rest of the drivers going with the flow and and just "platooning". Police then just pick you out and you take on for the team.
  • izaclown1izaclown1 Posts: 118
    My Dad also said "you drive enough, you WILL get a ticket and you will get in a wreck". Thats just the facts of life. The odds will catch up with you.

    What are the chances? Since the first of the year, my wife and I have totaled out both of our cars due to someone else's fault. A Mack truck could not stop with traffic and hit her car and a guy runs a red light hits the car next to me and it hits me. We drive 20+k a year in our respective cars and for the past 20 years have only had minor bumps every 6 years or so.
  • tpetpe Posts: 2,342
    Good post. As you stated most people will drive at what they consider to be a safe and reasonable speed regardless of the posted limit. Now why would that be? Is it possible that the consequences of being in an auto accident are a powerful enough deterent? Now we've all witnessed the occasional driver who flies through traffic like a madman. I'm not condoning this but one thing is pretty clear; the law was not a sufficient deterrent to keep this from happening. Regardless, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a radar gun to identify those drivers who are creating a real hazard on the roadways.
  • wesleygwesleyg Posts: 164
    In my 31 years in law enforcement (now retired), I was in traffic enforcement for the first 8 years, and much later I actually headed up the traffic unit, patrol cars and motorcycles. It is true there is no hard and fast "quota" but at the end of each month, no officer had better come in with 0 citations. That would be a serious neglect of duty. Speaking of dedicated traffic units, these officers solely work traffic enforcement and accident investigation, of course these officers write many more citations that the average road officer since they don't respond to normal police calls.
  • wesleygwesleyg Posts: 164
    That is pretty much true, we administer immediate first aid until real medical help arrives. BUT, the the first duty of the responding officer is to keep the scene from "getting worse". This incorporates the area of another accident occuring because of the initial one, blind spots of approaching traffic to the original scene, removing occupants when possible to prevent leaking gas causing an eventual fire or explosion etc. I have seen an original accident with perhaps minor injuries turn into a multiple fatality accident due to failure to adhere to the absolute requirement the first police responders have to protect the scene from further escalation.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,390
    >As you stated most people will drive at what they consider to be a safe and reasonable speed regardless of the posted limit.

    There's one factor to that tenet that's waiting to be stated. There is a factor who will be aggressive and tailgate to intimidate a driver into going faster just thinking they won't tailgate so closely if only the person ahead speeds up. But that's usually not the case; it's matter of psychological aggression for the tailgater.

    So the driver ahead will go faster than they would normally have done, and that moves the speed up above a perceived prudent speed which most people will drive.

    Policing rarely includes stopping aggressive drivers. I've tooted my horn and pointed behind at drivers tailgating at and above the speed limit when there's an officer parked on the other side or at a street or driving by the other direction.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    There is a factor who will be aggressive and tailgate to intimidate a driver into going faster just thinking they won't tailgate so closely if only the person ahead speeds up.

    Exactly -- reminds me of the tourbus on I-95 who had the audacity to tailgate and flash his lights at me for going the posted 65 in the far right lane north of Baltimore.

    Don't ride with Starr Tours!
  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    "There's one factor to that tenet that's waiting to be stated. There is a factor who will be aggressive and tailgate to intimidate a driver into going faster just thinking they won't tailgate so closely if only the person ahead speeds up. But that's usually not the case; it's matter of psychological aggression for the tailgater."

    I am confident that in the coming years, this is going to be more of a hot topic. It's already an incredibly serious offense in Germany, cameras on overpasses record the violator and the penalties are severe, much more than speeding. The Germans concluded long ago that tailgating creates a far greater traffic hazard.

    "Policing rarely includes stopping aggressive drivers"

    Also, a topic of "stay tuned", American law enforcement isn't stupid, they know this goes on, and I'm sure they'll tweak and adjust to the situation..... I'm not the expert here, wesleyg - any factual information?
  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    "Exactly -- reminds me of the tourbus on I-95 who had the audacity to tailgate and flash his lights at me for going the posted 65 in the far right lane north of Baltimore."

    You too?!!! This has happened to me too! VERY strange behavior! I was north of Baltimore on I-83 moving with traffic and some twit decided the left lane wasn't moving to his liking, clicked over to the right lane only to find me in the way. As to what country he got us confused with, I don't know.....
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    kylerenfrew is still right.

    You guys could discuss your mutual agreement, given that you are either 1) the same person, or 2) sitting right next to each other.

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Yeah, everybody hates cops until you need them. Same old song and dance.... Pathetic.

    I am actually quite a fan of the police, thank you. The city police where I live provide some of the best service I've had, including sending a note to my house reminding me to close my garage door at night, and letting me know that on the previous night they had found it open when they patrolled my neighborhood. That's very nice.

    However, the County patrol (aka, "traffic cops") let me down big time. Last spring, my car was hit head-on and totalled. It was just after 10pm and I was about 1/4 mile from my house. I called a friend for a ride immediately, but they cleared up the wreckage and took the report super-fast, in about 10 minutes. Instead of waiting with me or offering a ride home, the officer at the scene suggested that I walk a block to a nearby school parking lot to wait for my ride.

    It was very dark, my car had just been totalled, my knees were bleeding, and he just pulled away. Nice.
    Fortunately, my ride pulled around the corner just as he took off, but sheesh!

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  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    Wow! You guys are good!

    Yes, we are different people, not quite sitting next to each other.... but hitting off the same wifi....

    Incidentally, he is gone on a trip now (trucking) and if he chimes in, it will be on the road somewhere.....
  • wesleygwesleyg Posts: 164
    There is now a specific class given in the Ohio Police Officers Academy addressing that subject as a specific rather than just brushed on as had been in the past. Also, I have noticed a definite increase in the last year or so of citations issued for "operating a motor vehicle in a manner to endanger persons or property." I personnally would like to see this increase even more in the future, we are all affected by this menacing behavior.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "including sending a note to my house reminding me to close my garage door at night, and letting me know that on the previous night they had found it open when they patrolled my neighborhood"

    The police did the same thing with one of my neighbors. His garage door opener broke, so out of laziness, he just left the garage door open 24/7 until he could replace it (he only kept his cars, and a ladder in his garage...nothing else of real value). After a couple of days, the police stopped by and recommended he close his garage door.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Yeah, I called the City office to thank them for that service, as they were trying to protect me from an actual danger, as opposed to the County police who, as previously mentioned, are busily ticketing drivers who present no reasonable likelihood of causing harm.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,496
    Exactly -- reminds me of the tourbus on I-95 who had the audacity to tailgate and flash his lights at me for going the posted 65 in the far right lane north of Baltimore.

    Don't ride with Starr Tours!


    I had an incident happen to me a few years ago when a tour bus driver put his brights on me. It was on 395 coming into DC, traffic was a mess, but moving at least, and it was right around sunset, so those brights were enough to be blinding.

    Anyway, the bus driver decided to try switching lanes, while I was beside him on the left, passing him. There was no place I could go because traffic to the left of me was too heavy, so I laid into the horn and gunned it to get around him. I was kind of at the point of no return, where I could probably get ahead of him more quickly than I could hit my brakes and get behind him (and possibly risk getting rear-ended).

    Well damn if he didn't come in behind me and put his brights on me. My feelings in a situation like this are that if I can't see clearly, the only safe thing to do is gradually slow down. Which I did. Once the driver figured out he was pissing me off, he turned his brights off. But as soon as I sped up, he put them on again. So I slowed down again.

    Probably had that bus down to about 15-20. Not the safest thing in the world, when the flow of traffic was probably 40-45, but maybe it'll make him think before carrying on like that again.

    Do the police even go after these tour bus drivers for aggressive/reckless driving? Or is there some kind of political pressure/lobbyist groups that let them get away with this stuff?
  • ponderpointponderpoint Posts: 277
    "operating a motor vehicle in a manner to endanger persons or property." I personally would like to see this increase even more in the future, we are all affected by this menacing behavior.

    Can't be soon enough. Good factual information wesleyg, very frustrating to see somebody pulled over for speeding when a half mile before that event, you watched somebody completely intimidating other vehicles using their vehicle as a weapon - only to calm down when they see the authorities.

    And with that, good-bye everybody! My wife growing concern with forums and discussion groups has been noted, and I am going back to lurking... Sling away!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,726
    "operating a motor vehicle in a manner to endanger persons or property."

    That's a good idea, so long as it doesn't become a punishment for simply going 10 over.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,496
    After a couple of days, the police stopped by and recommended he close his garage door.

    Back over the summer, I got a letter from the police in Annapolis, Maryland. I was scared at first, but it turns out it was just a friendly warning. The cops had seen my Intrepid while doing a walk-through of the parking garage there, and noticed that there were a bunch of CDs sitting out in plain sight. They'd had a rash of break-ins in that garage, so to get a handle on things they'd do walk throughs, look in the cars to see if there was anything that might tempt a thief, etc. I think they might have also checked for unlocked doors, but I don't know.

    Anyway, I thought that was pretty cool of them to do that. Too bad they weren't watching when, about 4 months later, somebody ganked the front wheel off of that car in the same garage! :mad:
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    "as opposed to the County police who, as previously mentioned, are busily ticketing drivers who present no reasonable likelihood of causing harm"

    Let me go back a bit and explain why the police were patrolling, and led to them spotting the garage door...

    We had a rash of break-ins a while back, and some of the neighbors started complaining to the city council about the lack of police presence in our neighborhood. In the past 4 and a half years that I have been there, I have rarely seen a policeman that wasn't there as a result of a call from a neighbor. Well, the police decided to step up patrols after the break-ins and the complaints - I mean there would be multiple police cars patrolling at one time.

    One thing I noticed, after about 3 weeks of these patrols, they seemed to settle down to the point of only occasionally seeing 1 police car at a time. The funny thing is the police car seemed to be doing less "patrolling", and more sitting by stop signs, and busting neighbors for rolling thru them.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    I guess my point is that I would rather have the police patrolling the neighborhood, than sitting by a stop sign waiting for someone to run it. Now, I have no problem with them pulling someone over they happen to see run a stop sign while they are patrolling, but I just feel this would be a better use of their time, and more beneficial to the neighborhood.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Amen! That's what I've been trying to express... poorly, apparently. I don't object to a ticket being given when the law is violated, whether for running a sign or for speeding. It's the lurking in the hopes of catching someone to which I object.

    n.b.: my city was recently ranked #1 in crime. One is still, however, infinitely more likely to get busted for speeding than for stealing or B&E.

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  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    So you've had the same problem too? I'm not surprised.

    Do the police even go after these tour bus drivers for aggressive/reckless driving? Or is there some kind of political pressure/lobbyist groups that let them get away with this stuff?

    I don't think there's enough oversight, both at local/state level and at the federal level. Consider the bus that went up in flames evacuating nursing home residents in the path of Hurricane Rita. Over 20 died, and the bus company was found to have numerous safety violations.

    Or the recent bus crash in Atlanta that killed 6? I realize the driver isn't around to defend himself, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was driving all night with inadequate rest the day before. Regardless of the roadway's possible design flaws, I'll bet fatigue played a role.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,390
    Actually the bus driver had been driving for 1 hour. They buried him today in Toledo, I believe. This driver had driven the route before with the team, based on one member's statement. The route was not unfamiliar.

    I saw pictures of the ramp as a car drove along the HOV lane and then off. But there's no big sign with a yellow bottom saying exit only like our interstate signs in Ohio. It's just a plain sign almost looking like it's a high speed lane too. They've had 80 some accidents on that ramp. If I were the relatives of the driver and his wife, based on the view I saw from the TV camera taking the ramp I'd be talking to a well-connected attorney. I haven't been into that part of Atlanta for decades since I helped redo some houses in the north area wtih a friend. Things were rebuilt drastically. But that was not adequately marked.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

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