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Toyota Camry Hybrid Battery Pack Questions

2

Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I refuse to go anywhere that I cannot park and lock my own vehicle. Parking lot attendants are notorious for dinging doors etc. They accept NO responsibility. Valet parking is just asking for trouble.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    do they offer valet parking at Burger king ?
  • droid13droid13 Member Posts: 29
    The TCH is really no different from a regular car when it comes to draining the 12V battery. If you leave something on, the 12V battery goes dead. This is, as already pointed out, nothing to do with the traction battery. The traction battery cannot be depleted as it will disconnect itself when the charge level drops too low allowing the 12V battery to go dead to save itself (bars on the battery display simply show charge available for use as seen fit by the computer, and not the physical charge state of the battery).
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Hey droid13 look at Ocean99999's original post #44. Apparently there is more too it than you think.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    Hopefully we can all learn from what happened sadly to you :

    After painfully skimming through the user's manual I found this.
    1- On page 10 : "If the hybrid battery becomes fully discharged and the vehicle will not start even with a jump start to the 12 volt battery, contact your Toyota dealership." This is what you did.

    2- On page 306 (Jump starting procedure) : "During jump starting, run the engine [of the helping car] at about 2000 rpm ..." DON'T DO THAT FOR THE FIRST 2 MINUTES - This creates a risk to burn the rectifiers of the helping car ! It will also exceed the 5-ampere charging recommendation by a large margin. LEAVE THE HELPING CAR'S ENGINE STOPPED for the first 2 minutes and then you can ramp up slowly to 2000 rpm.

    3- Page 307 : "If the first start attempt is not successful...
    ...Recharge the discharged battery with the jumper cables connected for several minutes and restart the hybrid system in the normal way...." This is what you ended up doing.

    I always like to know how and why things work (yes, I am an engineer :) ). We already knew that the 12 volt battery normally gets its power from the the 244 volt battery. Your mishap confirms that the 12volt-to-244volt converter is bi-directional, and that, when in need, the 244 volt battery can be recharged by the 12 volt battery.
  • droid13droid13 Member Posts: 29
    The only thing that charges the traction battery is the motor/generators powered by ICE or regen braking. Letting the 12V battery charge for a few minutes allows the traction battery to determine its safe to reconnect itself to the system without concern that the 12V system will draw it down past it's safe level. It's all about protecting the traction battery and why these batteries are suppose to last 15 yrs in the car when the identical type of battery used in a laptop is ruined after 2 yrs of use.

    If the traction battery charge falls below it's safe range, it will not reconnect to the system and it's time for a tow to the dealer for diagnostics (something is wrong!) and a direct recharge.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "It's all about protecting the traction battery and why these batteries are suppose to last 15 yrs in the car when the identical type of battery used in a laptop is ruined after 2 yrs of use."

    Just to clarify, Toyota has never made a claim that the traction battery will last 15 years. Perhaps you mean 150K or 10 years, which is the CARB state warranty on emissions parts?
  • droid13droid13 Member Posts: 29
    I'm talking probable usable life, not warranties or guarantees. I guess I should have said "why these batteries should be able to last 15 yrs". From what I've heard, older Prius batteries nearing the decade mark and still going strong with little signs of giving up soon...
  • gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    The only thing that charges the traction battery is the motor/generators powered by ICE or regen braking.

    Droid13, your statement does make sense.

    May I ask where you got the information to assert this ? Or do you just put forward a hypothesis ?

    I would like to be sure before I change my mind.
  • droid13droid13 Member Posts: 29
    The hybridsynergydrive web site describes the DC/DC converter among lots of different resources. The ToyotaIguide site makes mention that once the traction battery is outside it's safe range, HSD won't start and see your dealer (again, among lots of different resources). There is a dedicated port on the traction battery for charging it should something go wrong, of course that's where the manual warns you that you'll electrocute yourself if you play with it.
  • r_nashr_nash Member Posts: 33
    I've read in a few articles that Toyotas goal is for the traction battery to last the life of the car - typically 15 years or 200K miles.
  • magelanmagelan Member Posts: 3
    My car is one week old. Going back to the subject of drained batteries if car is not put to "P". I cannot get the key out unless I press the Power button. When I press the power button the gears switch goes into "P" position. Overall it must mean that the "P" gear problem is effectively solved unless you leave your keys in the car...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    :confuse:

    "you cannot get the keys out" of what? :confuse:
  • magelanmagelan Member Posts: 3
    Oh, come on! I would not stick the car key into my pocket to drive! So what I said HAD TO BE getting the keys out from the car key-socket... Was it so difficult to understant?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    So you mean the "car key socket" in the car door?
  • gc77584gc77584 Member Posts: 65
    Oh, come on! I would not stick the car key into my pocket to drive! So what I said HAD TO BE getting the keys out from the car key-socket...

    We're a bit confused. The only "key" that the Camry Hybrid has is a little bitty stick of metal that's used to open the driver's door and/or trunk in the event the SmartKey fob fails. There is no physical keyhole or key-socket inside the car anywhere. No physical key is used to start the car or to turn it off, just the Power button.

    Thus many Camry Hybrid drivers DO stick the car "key" (i.e., the SmartKey fob) into their pocket to drive. I keep mine in my purse and never have to take it out.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    Was it so difficult to understant?

    I started to ask the same question. Now that you've answered it I still don't know what you're saying

    Oh, come on! I would not stick the car key into my pocket to drive!

    Uhh, that's where I keep mine when I'm driving.
  • psepse Member Posts: 14
    I am just as confused as everyone else about what is being said. What exactly is the car/keys problem and what are you pulling the ket out of (the fob or the car)?
    I also keep the keys in my pocket when I drive.
  • gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    It happened to me too, today : Left the car at a parking lot, the parking attendant told me he knew how to handle a hybrid. I was back within 2 hours, to find the traction battery almost depleted. I guess the attendant pushed the POWER button before shifting into PARK.

    From now on, I will keep printed instructions in the glove box, to put them on the instrument lens when I leave the car, and I will also make sure the radio is ON (it stays ON if you push the POWER button before shifting to PARK).
  • gillesmtlgillesmtl Member Posts: 55
    Do you drive a Toyota Camry Hybrid (a.k.a. TCH) ?
  • regal1945regal1945 Member Posts: 25
    I don't think he does to see his post, may be a troll lol
  • magelanmagelan Member Posts: 3
    Sorry if I had confused anyone but I was talking about Toyota Prius T Spirit.
  • sallyspalsallyspal Member Posts: 31
    Gee, I guess that really was pretty hard to understand. It was certainly difficult for you to explain
  • toyolla2toyolla2 Member Posts: 158
    Then DROID13, there must be two DC/DC converters.

    1. The high voltage Totem pole Up/Down converter which raises the HV battery pack voltage to the main HV bus up to 650v max. from its low of 244volts while accelerating ( something to do with maintaining volts/Hz)with MG2. And then while decelerating must lower the HV bus voltage to the HV battery pack voltage to enable it to absorb the recaptured energy.

    And then there must be this other converter that gillesmtl was referring to earlier.

    2. A bidirectional converter which allows power to be exchanged between the 12 volt accessory battery and the HV battery pack. This must be about the schematic I saw on the ANL goverment site which shows how the galvanic seperation for the two battery systems is attained. Until now I didn't know which car this was intended for. I'm pretty sure the Gen 1 Prius does not have this. Anyway for those interested they use two H-bridges connected via a high frequency step up transformer. Obviously only one bridge can be enabled at any one time.

    So the sequence must be that during boosting of a discharged 12volt system, the low voltage H-bridge must turn on thus charging the HV pack which in turn precharges the HV bus enabling MG1 and it's inverter to start the engine.
    Though it does sound dumb that any drain on the 12volt will cause a domino effect to the loss of the HV battery as well. This is a repeat of the old adage "computers are dumber than people but smarter than programmers" !

    And then you have to hit the START switch to shutdown properly. Now who else in their right mind would expect you to do a thing like that. Alright, who else besides Bill Gates then ?

    T2
  • hybridnewbyhybridnewby Member Posts: 2
    Got my camry hybrid end of Nov 2006--drove it home, did not drive for 2 days--next day it would not start. Jump started took to dealer--they said 12 volt battery was depleted (probably while in lot)--recharged. Okay for 2 weeks--then went away for 7 days--came back battery dead-jump started, drove a day a few short trips. Next day battery dead--jump started, and charged it for several hours. Now on 4th day of successful starting. The manual says battery depletes after 14 days of non use--to go after 7 days seems excessive. My old 1994 camry went two months without being used and started just fine. Frankly if this is the intended design of the car it is not a good second car or a good car for people who frequently travel. Is this supposed to happen or do I have a bad battery? At this rate the car will have to be plugged in all the time.
  • dogzendogzen Member Posts: 3
    Sounds like you have a bad battery. We went to Japan for 10 days and had no problem starting the car after that.
  • hybridnewbyhybridnewby Member Posts: 2
    Bad battery sounds like a good suspicion, I hope this is it and I really do not have to jump start it every few days--hopefully my dealer will agree to replace it. So far when people ask me how I like my camry hybrid I tell them it is great except for the fact it is useless for people who travel alot leaving their car at home.
  • takenforaridetakenforaride Member Posts: 2
    I actually have a regular (non-Hybrid) 2007 Camry LE and I went on vacation for two weeks. When I came back the battery was drained. I always turn off my headlights and if I don't the car automatically turns them off after half an hour. My car was definitely off (I don't have the fancy keyless driving feature) and all the doors were shut properly so the cabin light was off (which also turns off automatically after a while). When I called Boch Toyota they said that new cars weren't meant to be left alone for too long and that it was normal for the battery to discharge if left alone for 3 to 4 days; the cars have to be started every three days. Sounds like a hassle to me... might have been better off buying an old used car.
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    >>>When I called Boch Toyota they said . . . . . that it was normal for the battery to discharge if left alone for 3 to 4 days; the cars have to be started every three days.

    It's hard to believe any dealer would say something so foolish. It's nonsense. If true, millions of cars left at home while families go on vacations--by plane or another car--would return to find all their car batteries dead. Needless to say, this isn't happening.

    Your problem was likely caused by a defective battery, or an electrical drain of some kind, or possibly your battery was at low charge when you left for some other reason.
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    Is that Boch Toyota in Mass.? Anyway, that is a typical "BRUSH THIS GUY OFF" answer. The least that should be done is a check for power drain, and a check of the battery itself. If it were me, I would be at the service desk, looking for the servive manager, armed with the itiotic answer I got from one of his employes, and wanting to know what he was going to do about it. JMHO.
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    Sory ebout the bed spalling in my lest past................LOL
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree NO car should be drained down after a month sitting. I have had PU trucks that I left for six months and cranked right up. I would be thumpin' on some heads at a dealership that tried to pull that kind of shenanigans. The Hybrids do have that severe flaw that they will drain down the battery after a couple weeks. I guess Toyota does not know how to design a battery cutoff circuit.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "I agree NO car should be drained down after a month sitting. I have had PU trucks that I left for six months and cranked right up. "

    Odd this should come up; I just saw an article on how new cars need to be run more often because some of their electronics have a small current draw. Apparently it is due to the way the auto companies are designing their computer subsystems.

    Most older cars are not affected because their electronics do not draw current unless the car ignition is on.

    Sorry, I can't remember where I saw the story, it was either on excite or reuters sites.
  • acco20acco20 Member Posts: 211
    We are talking 3 or 4 days here. The OP was told that it was normal for the battery to go dead after 3 or 4 days. That is rediculas,,,that person should be talked to by the agency, he represents them and is doing a lousy job of it.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Member Posts: 1,405
    I believe this may be discussed in the owners manual. which by the way can answer a lot of questions I see on this board.

    I was thinking it was "suggested" that the car be started every two weeks.
  • takenforaridetakenforaride Member Posts: 2
    yes it is Boch Toyota in Mass. 277 Boston Providence Highway, Norwood. Yup, brought the car in to get looked at. When I asked them how much current was being drawn from the battery, they said 2 volts. I told them current was measured in amps but they insisted it was the same. The fact that they didn't know current from voltage makes me not want them to touch my car.
  • mfletou1mfletou1 Member Posts: 508
    I recently left my TCH for 2 weeks. It started right back up again. Brakes squeaked for the first few applications, after that it was normal.
  • lzclzc Member Posts: 483
    Unless the guy who works on cars is the same guy who stands behind the customer service counter, I wouldn't worry too much about the mix-up between volts and amps. Like most car salesmen, service writers and mostly about selling. The policy seems to be, the less they know the better. :)
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    yes it is Boch Toyota in Mass. 277 Boston Providence Highway, Norwood. Yup, brought the car in to get looked at. When I asked them how much current was being drawn from the battery, they said 2 volts. I told them current was measured in amps but they insisted it was the same. The fact that they didn't know current from voltage makes me not want them to touch my car.

    IMHO the person who told you that should be fired.
  • rich07rich07 Member Posts: 2
    Just finished reading most of these battery Q&A and have learned a lot. I thought I was up to date?

    My 2007 TCH was rear ended by an 18 wheeler and pushing us into a car in front of us, crushing the trunk lid up to the rear window almost. My problem is that due to some insurance problems the car is still is in our driveway and the Hybrid Batt is now at 1/5th. I disconnect the trunk light but the airbag lights are still on.

    The adjusters estimate shows the following (which I think many might find interesting) "HYBRID VEHICLE:BATTERY IS TEMP SENSITIVE, DO NOT CURE PAINT, AIR DRY OVERNIGHT SHOP MUST CHECK BATTERY CHARGE TO PREVENT DISCHARGE THAT MAY REQUIRE REPLACEMENT" Well, I can see the chances of this happening is almost a certain.

    Any comments or cautions would be appreciated. I just love this car.
  • deflardeflar Member Posts: 2
    I took my 2007 Camry hybrid to the dealer after a bunch of warning lights came on indicating" check hybrid system" The result , per the dealer , a stone pierced the inverter cooler allowing coolant to escape. Damage $770 +, it gets worse, if the inverted overheated and doesn't function properly it's thousands$$ more. I have an extended warranty which, per the dealer, does not cover this incident. Is it me or why would this crital part be exposed to damage or does it sound fishy?
  • talmy1talmy1 Member Posts: 55
    I think the situation is the same as if the stone hits and breaks your windshield. Check your Comprehensive auto insurance policy. It isn't a warranty issue.
  • libn314libn314 Member Posts: 4
    I have a '07 TCH with 65K on it. It will be 3 years old next spring. Generally, in TX it is a good idea to "pro-actively" replace batteries every 3 yrs because of the heat. 1) Will this battery last longer because it doesn't have to provide cranking amps? 2) I can't find any replacement for the specialized Panasonic battery with voltage (?) probe on the internet. Is anybody aware of one. The access is easy. 3) Finally, are there any special precautions necessary for replacing the low voltage battery on a hybrid?
  • choochoomanchoochooman Member Posts: 38
    has anyone got a price from dealer to replace the batteries for the hybrid system? and how long before they need replacement?
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Member Posts: 194
    I don't get a price on an item that I don't need to purchase. Overall, the traction batteries are warranted for 7-10years depending where you live.

    Right now all we have is experiences from Prius owners and while there may have been a bad battery here and there, there doesn't seem to be any talk of batteries failing with age. The Prius taxis owners put 300-400k on their cabs before replacing the car and they have not had any battery failures, nor have they worn out their battery packs.
  • pat85pat85 Member Posts: 92
    Batteries have a nominal Voltage. Say 12 Volts DC for the car battery used for starting the engine. With no load, it has 12 volts potential. It should not discharge unless there is something wrong with the battery or there is a load like lights left on.
    When a load is applied , like the starter motor, for example, 2 things happen. First, Current flows through the starter, Current is measured in Amps.
    The second thing that may happen, depending on temperature, battery capacity, and how long you crank the starter motor, the internal resistance of the 12 Volt battery will increase. The current flowing through this internal resistance will cause the voltage to drop slightly from the current flowing through it. So the output voltage may drop to a nominal 11 Volts.
    Power is Volts times Amps. The power necessary to run the starter will be the same. At a lower voltage, more Amps are necessary. This is why batteries can only crank a certain amount. After awhile of not cranking the starter , batteries seem to recover a little with no charging. This is due to the internal resistance going back to its original state.
    Does that help ?
  • dukeshahdukeshah Member Posts: 10
    Hello fellow TCH'ers.
    I love this car!!! I have a minor question.
    I have never observed the main battrey fully charged - always one or two bars less than full. Is that normal?
    I have a 2009 TCH which has about 69,000 miles on it.

    Thanks,
    A :)
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Member Posts: 194
    Yes, perfectly normal. The TCH tries to keep the battery between 20-80% of full charge to try to maximize the lifespan of the battery pack.
  • camryloyalistcamryloyalist Member Posts: 6
    I am considering buying a used 2007 TCH. Test drove and saw some funny things. After starting engine, simply activating NAV triggered gas engine to turn on...is it normal for gas engine to come on while idling in parked position?....I looked at battery status and battery gauge was barely above the midpoint (60%?)....Is this normal? Is this battery damaged due to extensive inactivity? Is this a reason to be concerned about buying this car?

    GR
  • cdn_tchcdn_tch Member Posts: 194
    The hybrid drivetrain is a bit different but it does have a method to its madness...

    The engine did not come on because you turned on the nav, but rather because it had been ~7 seconds after you pressed the Start button. That delay will be skipped if a) the battery charge is low, or b) the outside temperature is very low.

    The battery gauge just reflects the current charge of the traction battery. If you drive the car in electric mode for the last mile or so before parking it the traction battery will be down and stay that way until the engine is running again to recharge it. So finding the car with a 60% charge does not indicate any issues with the battery, just that it was somewhat depleted before being turned off.

    The battery pack has a long warranty so you should not have to worry about the battery at all from a financial perspective. How long has this TCH been 'inactive'?
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