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I don't know that you can go wrong with any of the cars you've mentioned although I've always thought that the Lexus GS models command stupid prices. You might also consider an Acura RL. Just have have your wife look at a few of the ones you've mentioned and then decide.
The GS300 is a bit better, but my money goes on a 1997-1999 Mercedes S420. The last of the big square handbuilt tanks. Yes, maintainence on them run a bit more, but considering that they were the best cars you could buy back then, it's maybe worth some extra upkeep. They are superb in just about every way. The 420's engine is more reliable and get a bit better MPG than the ones in the 500 and 600. - And a whole lot less expensive to work on.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/car/225358246.html
Perfect example. Wait - that's not 15K.
... and, an IS300 for a family with 2 kids, even if they are toddlers now and only ride occasionally? Cruel... (sorry about a little sarcasm.)
For 15k, I would pick - yes - a newer Altima/Accord/Camry. Or a non-outback Subaru. Or even - sacrilege - a used MPV, Sienna or Dodge minivan. A new Mazda5 is not that much more expensive, but from what I hear, it is quite a dog.
The best values used are luxury cars that have depreciated most of their value away. Take a GS300. From day one it was built better than any Camry, in nicer inside(even comared to a new base Camry), and handles very well.
The S420 I mention because it was the last of the old-school non-plastic Mercedes. Big, impressive, and wonderful to drive. For less money than a KIA, well, some extra for repairs isn't that bad, IMO. And, afterall, it was a 60K car, new. Even used, it looks like something an executive or diplomat would be riding around in. That's got to count for something
Or you can get a couple of year old Buick or other GM car. They are pretty fine and very inexpensive after a couple of years worth of depreciation. I know this from experience - that there's nothing Toyota makes for under $20K new that competes with a 3-5 year old LeSabre. It's just a bigger, better, more powerful, and more luxurious car. ABS, traction control, a nice HUD for the driver, and all the goodies. It's a fantastic car for road trips.
You won't even spend $15K on most used ones. More like $12K. And the 3.8 engine is good for easily 200K miles or more.
For 4 people, though, almost any midsize car will do. As long as there's enough legroom to satisfy your 12 year old, even a Corolla would be comfortable. It's when you try to fit 5 or 6 in a car that it starts to get iffy and you might be considering a minivan or SUV.
Foe the record, I like the Buicks and the Oldsmobiles and a lot of the larger GM cars. I have owned quite a few of them. They provide a very good value after year four if you can find a low miler. And **IF** the car was properly maintained, they can be a good deal.
The engines and the transmissions. Unfortunately, the rest of the car is not as solid.
If you do the routine maintenance RELIGIOUSLY (like a Honda owner),the first 80k miles should be relatively trouble free.
Then, you have an assortment of issues. Usually, the fan blower motor goes. In six out of seven GM vehicles, I have replaced it. On some models, you replace an alternator every two years. On other models, it is the starter that goes every two years.
At 100k, plan to replace the shocks and struts and a ball joint.
If you get all of the kinks out at 100k miles (usually at a cost around $1200-1500), you are off the hook for another 50k miles.
ABS modules - you will replace at least one of them around $400 a piece.
Have one of those vehicles with all the electronics? Those motors generally start to fail around 130k. One at a time.
A pre 1990 model, watch for the rust although they do a lot better on the rust control in recent models.
My point is while vehicles are generally pretty reliable and free of the major failures that plagued models like the Taurus, you are more likely to suffer the proverbial "death by 1000 cuts" than engine or tranny failure. or in other words, past 100k, how many $300 repairs each year are you willing to tolerate past 100k?
To me, it beats car payments or writing big checks to dealerships. However, I have a number of great mechanics at my disposal.
Transmission? Well, it's not a 5-speed, but it gets the job done. OTOH... It's $1600 to fix at most shops(seen it as low as $1200, though). A Camry? $3000. A new Honda? $2500+.
A new starter? 5 minutes to replace. Put a wrench on the tensioner pulley and gently move it down. Pop off serpentene belt. Unbolt the starter(two bolts and a connector) and drop a new one in. Put the belt back on. ie - there's just enough room to work on this yourself. MAF is a 5 minute job. Replacing coil packs is 10 minutes. Rebuilt starters and alternators are cheap.
The electronics do cause some problems, but it's almost always due to age and not mileage. 10-12 years is pretty much when the gremlins start appearing, but the parts are easy to get and do yourself or get diagnosed(OBD III is a godsend compared to the older versions).
I will tell you, though, that my mother's LeSabre is virtually problem-free at seven years old. It's the last redesign that they made and the interior is 200% better than before. When it was new, it competed side by side with the original Avalon and the differences between the two are vanishingly small - well, except that the Buick is cheaper for hard parts and the Toyota needs half as many electrical and accessory fixes over its life.
What to look for is really two things:
1: car at the end of its cycle/decade old design.
2: big enough and plenty of space under the hood.
Even a S420 is pretty reasonable to do work on because it fits these two criteria. Sure, you have to get the identical item from Bosch or Bendex or simmilar instead of the same part with Mercedes' blessing/name on it, but it's a straightforward process.
2b: Extended warranty. Haggling hard on a used car and then getting a (hopefully factory) warranty to cover the length of your loan is often the best thing possible.
I am looking for advice on what car to buy. The situation is this: I have about $20K (before taxes and license) to spend on a performance sedan. Ideally, I am looking to buy a used car which is good 'bang for buck.' The only limitations are that it should be 4-doors, available with manual transmission and decent gas mileage (say 28+mpg on freeways)
I am open to foreign and domestics but I haven't kept up with all the car trends (stopped paying attention around 2000) so I am looking to the car faithful here for some good advice.
Thanks!
J
What is your mileage cap? For example would you be ok with a euro car out of warranty? Does it need to be FWD, AWD, or RWD or does not matter?
No strict mileage cap (some cars wear better than others) but say under 60K. I would be ok with a euro car out of warranty as long as it was not notoriously unreliable. I would prefer RWD or AWD (audi?) but not a huge issue either way
Thanks
J
12-15K is an average price coming off a lease.
You might look at some of the performance-oriented Subarus, such as the Impreza and Legacy. Not very pretty to look and the interiors feel cheap, but powerful cars that are fun to drive, reliable with decent fuel economy.
I would tend to avoid the Saabs, as reliability is often poor. People seem to either love them or they don't.
Also, the engine is literally wedged in there so tight you practically have to remove it... no , you absolutely MUST partially remove it to even service anything under the hood. We're talking Catera tight here. 1-2 inches space around the engine at best. I've heard from owners that it gets pricey pretty quickly to maintain because of this.
Another car, though, to consider would be a 2002 VW Jetta with the VR6 cylinder engine. This is actually a reliable engine as opposed to their turbo models(note - this is VW/Audi as well, so the A4's turbo is another problem area). Very quick, nice interior, and relatively problem free.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&paId=209- 375018
I think it's becoming more and more common for manual transmission cars not to be able to do a push-start.
I just sold my old 97 Town and country and I need to make a decision on what car should I buy.
I'm 26 years old and have a 4 years-old daughter, we live in NY. I use the car to drop my husband to work and to take my daughter to school. I also do some shopping and regular stuff. I love suvs but as we are on a bubget we want to spend 17K tops, besides we want to save gas too, so we were looking into the small economic vehicles. The ones we liked so far are the Nissan Versa and the Dodge caliber.
I don't know anything about cars just that they take me where I want
Besides we are thinking of financing...should we lease an inexpensive car?
Thanks in advance for taking the time and helping me out in this dilema...
GM and Dodge seem to be the best in the used price/features for the dollar equation, but compared to a Chrysler/Dodge, GM is a significant jump up if you get something with the 3.8L engine.
What model - well, that's up to you. Tons of good used GM cars out there in all sorts of sizes. I like the Grand Prix and a few others, but YMMV.
Or you could get a 2-3 year old Saab 9-5 for about that price. Very nice cars as well.
The Sandman
I need an SUV with a >6000lbs GVWR, roomy back-seat for adults, enough headroom for me (6'4"), is narrow enough to fit on steep coastal mountain dirt trails/roads, and can be had for <$22K? My leading candidates are a 2003-4 Disco "S", 2002 ML 500, and maybe a 2003-2004 Jeep GrCh Overland (>6K GVW?). I do not think there are any others? I would love the reliability of a 4Runner or Land Cruiser, but they both do not qualify for various of the above reasons. I currently use my wife's GX470 for Ranch duties, but she has informed me that this will no longer be an option (i.e., brush scratches).
A pre-certified Disco S seems like the best choice, as they come with a 2-3 year warranty; and a soul.
Is there any other SUV that meets my needs? Suggestions?
Ridge Road
Why do you need over 6000lbs?
What you are describing is basically a Jeep Unlimited, but it's not 6000lbs.
I personaly wouldn't get the S model Disco as you are missing out on a lot of toys. You can't get leather interior in the S, you can't get the seude door trim, you can't get the adjustable arm rests etc. etc. etc.
I just sold, about two hours ago actually, a 2003 Disco SE black on black with 39,000 miles for 20,000 dollars even. That includes the 25,000 mile 2 year CPO warranty as well.
You can find a sub 40,000 miles Disco SE for less then 22,000 dollars.
I don't think the Grand Cherokee is over 6,000 GVWR and the ML is not going to be nearly as capable off-road as the Disco or Grand Cherokee are.
Yeah GVWR for a Grand Cherokee overland is only 5,500 lbs.
Scroll down to the bottom quarter of the page.
You really need to ditch the 6000lbs requirement and find another angle, IMO. As for the Jeep, though, the 2007 models are infinately quieter and nicer inside. They handle better, drive better, and don't vibrate you to death. Go drive one - and satisfy your lust
Plenty of SUVs crack the 6,000 lbs GVWR by design just to take advantage of the tax credit avaliable to small businesses.
A Volvo XC90 with the third Row and V8 engine just barely cracks the 6,000 lbs gross limit.
2004 Disco SE
Curb weight 4,576 lbs.
GVWR 6,064 lbs.
Payload 1,598 lbs.
Max. trailer weight 7,700 lbs.
The SE is very tempting, and my wife's preferred choice, but I'm inclined to go with the S for the cheaper price of entry, no sunroof (squeeks, drips), and better selection of AT tires. Most of the SE's in my area have the rear air suspension, which I would rather avoid for forseeable repairs. That said, if the right SE can be had for under $22K, I will probably take it, though in my area they tend to retail in the $25-$30K+ range. I also have a strong preference for the 2004, with the center locking diff.
plekto,
My buddy has a Unlimited Rubicon, so I know how much fun and capable they are. If there were not significant tax advantages, I would be tempted.
Also if you want a 2004 and the diff lock then getting under 22k with a SE will be hard.
Just so you know the diff lock can be retroffited to any Disco. The locking diff is there in the 2000-2003 models but the lever inside the cab is missing. You can reach under the truck with a wrench and engage the locking diff or you can buy a kit to add a lever inside the cab.
I really haven't seen that much of a failure rate with the air suspension in Discos. Nothing like the failure rate of the air suspension in pre 2002 Range Rovers.
The air suspension is worth a couple more inches of clearance on the back of the disco which could be worth it as the stock departure angle on the disco is only so so.
Like I said I just sold a very nice CPO 2003 Disco SE for 20,000 even plus tax and tags.
The 2003 and 2004 Discos are much more reliable then previous Model years. Something like 140 improvements were made to the last two years of the disco compared to the 1999-2002 models.
TMV of the Disco I sold with the CPO was 21,298. Without the CPO it was 19,148 so we basically split the difference on the CPO.
While the Land Rover's reputation for being unreliable is well known, with the CPO, I feel pretty secure. I would not procure a used Land Rover if the CPO program was not actually better, seemingly, than many new car's warranty programs. For example, when my year old 2000 Jeep GrCh Ltd. went in for warranty repairs, I was not provided with a loaner or stipend for a rental. Plus, the Marin LR dealer is right on my commute route, and CPO guarantees a loaner for warranty repairs.
As crazy as it may seem, I'm going to go with a 2003-4 Disco S or SE.
Thanks all!
If someone wants a service loaner our service department is normaly one week or more out as far as avaliblity goes. Now if it is an emergancy or something we will try and rustle something up on the sales side but sometimes that is not even possible.
We don't have enough new/used cars in inventory right now to loan one out if we had to.
Doesn't exist. Either your budget has to give $10K or you need to deal without the tax incentive.
Oh - wait - there IS one thing - but it's $30K - A Topkick 4*4. Flatbed not included.
Doesn't exist. Either your budget has to give $10K or you need to deal without the tax incentive.
Oh - wait - there IS one thing - but it's $30K - A Topkick 4*4. Flatbed not included.
Wow.... :confuse: No, you don't get it.
We are not talking about 6,000 lbs Curb weight we are talking about 6,000 lbs Gross weight. Gross as in maximium weight of the vehicle when loaded full of passengers and/or cargo.
The tax deduction applies to vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of 6,000 lbs.
2003 Disco S Dimensions...
Curb weight 4,576 lbs.
GVWR 6,064 lbs.
Payload 1,598 lbs.
Max. trailer weight 7,700 lbs.
Exterior length 185.2"
Exterior body width 74.4"
Exterior height 76.4"
Wheelbase 100.0"
Front tread 60.6"
Rear tread 61.4"
Turning radius 19.5'
2002 ML320 Specs
Curb weight 4,786 lbs.
GVWR 6,005 lbs.
Payload 1,697 lbs.
Max. trailer weight 5,000 lbs.
Exterior length 182.6"
Exterior body width 72.4"
Exterior height 71.7"
Wheelbase 111.0"
Front tread 60.4"
Rear tread 60.4"
Turning radius 18.5'
Hmhh never realized how short the wheelbase of the Disco is when compared to the ML...
I think with the ML you are giving up a little bit of off-road capablity against the disco but you are gaining a little bit of agility on road and a slightly better on road ride.
I would personaly rank a 1997-2001 or so ML below the relablity of a 2003-2004 Disco but a 2002-2004 ML is probably equal too if not a little better then a 2003-2004 Disco.
http://www.toyota.com/tundra/specs_4x4.html
There you go.
http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=91020&acode=USB60TOT104A0&restor- e=false
$22K.
Anyone know if a search engine like this -- one that lets you specify equipment, HP, price, etc -- still exists?
thanks,
Bob
Having owned Toyota's & Nissans and finally my 1st Honda, go with the Accord or even the Civic, which I bought. Great car for local driving and it can move when it has to. She might actually like the smaller size too.
The Sandman