This site shows the schematic of the PSD (as well as other techie stuff) and it simply appeared to me that you have a sun and planatary gear connected by the pinion gears. It doesn't show any ratios other than 1. Perhaps this was simply an oversimplified explaination
Remember that an overall ratio of any transmission at any given time is (simplified) the number of turns of the input shaft over the number of turns of the output shaft. When you get right down to it, MG1 actually controls the ratio through the power split device. If you have access to the Camry Hybrid New Car Features document (same set of documents that contains the Body Electrical document from Tundrasolutions.com) The Chassis document has about 12 pages that describes some of this, and the THS II document has even more info on how the Hybrid system controls the transaxle and how it is design to respond at different loads and conditions, including nomographic charts. This is the only place I've seen that accurately explains how the planetary split device works. Under "Function of Main Components" in the THS II document, in the description for MG1, it says "MG1 operates so that the gear ratio of the power split planetary gear unit will optimally suit the driving conditions of the vehicle." I do thank you for all of your input on this forum. You have put out some very useful information.
You guys are heads above me... without trying to sound too dumb... could you explain how 'B' works in simple English. Does it save gas and why is there a 'B'? Thanks. :confuse:
Actually that's a very good question. I've seen lots of responses but not I consider definitive and absolute. I still would like to know from someone that has the literature to fully explain it. I've seen graphs but a simple one liner from a knowledgable person would be of benefit to all of us.
The only time I have used it is in traffic, downhill when I wanted to slow down without touching my brakes. I often find myself on steeper slopes "riding" my brake pedal lightly to expedite charging the battery (I assume that this actually provides more charging than simply lifting my foot from the gas (perhaps that's another good question)
For the sake of not wanting to tick everyone off that is following me at 75 while I ride my brakes downhill, B seems like the only reasonable safe option.
I think I know that it's for engine braking and thus I never could see how B necessarily has the opportunity to charge the battery.
Been a while since I've been on the TCH forums. The B is intended primarily for steep downhill grades such as in WV and the Rockies.
One of the reasons that the Toyota HSD doesn't overstress the batteries is that they never are fully charged nor are they fully discharged. Regenerative braking can send lots of charge back to the batteries in normal stop and go driving. But the risk is that in a long steep downhill riding the brakes or even just being on/off with the brakes will send too much charge back to the batteries.
Therefore to avoid this situation they implemented an 'engine braking' system to slow you and not send so much back to the batteries.
That is the only time that the B mode should be used. It can be used other times but it's not all that effective. Just ignore it if you're driving in flat conditions.
OK, let's see if I have most of the answers. I'm trying to run the longest miles on battery only with the engine off. The following occurs after engine has warmed up. First of all, above forty miles an hour, the engine will always be on. So at that speed or above, I think the cruise control will get you the best mpg. The engine always shuts off at a complete stop. So if no one is behind you, ease the accelerator slowly to keep the engine off. On any downhill, I take my foot off the accelerator and the engine will shut off. On a flat surface, I try to just keep a slight pressure on the accelator. This will usually keep me at speed or the car might be slowing down a little. Again, I do this when there are no cars behind me. After driving a G35X and tearing away from stop signs and getting about 15 to 17 mpg, this is a new challenge for me. I've been able to get about 34 to 39 mpg in the city. I'm getting a lot of engine off miles to and from work which is about 8 miles. Any questions, E Mail me at zerrylady@aol.com. I don't check this site very often. Have fun with your Hybrid. By the way, I'm driving a 1997 Camry Hybrid.
Wow, did I make a mistake with my 2007 TCH this weekend. Everything is fine, but I can't believe it. I drove to a friend's house and when I arrived, saw some friends in the driveway. I stopped, parked, grabbed my keys, and rushed over to say hello. We eventually went it the house, had dinner, and when I returned to my TCH, I found that I had left it running in the driveway (in park) for 2 + hours! After getting over my bonehead move of o not turning the car off, I was surprised that it would continue to run for 2+ hours while I had the keyfob with me No harm done but do I feel stupid!
You may have not shut the vehicle off, but once you got outside of the key fob's range, the engine shut off. It is not physically possible for the vehicle to have the engine running with the key fob out of range. It beeps to warn you getting out of range and then the engine shuts off.
If it makes you feel better, my wife did the same thing. Only she left to watch my kids' baseball game! We came back, the headlights are on, and so is the car!
I actually tried it tonight. Sure enough, all the warning signs came on, it beeped several times (very loudly) that I was leaving the car running, "key not detected" came up on the program, A red flashing triangle was flashing at me. So, yes, I would have to say "what a bonehead move, to not shut it off". We always check the fuel economy rating, so if we always remember to do that, we will know that it has been shut off.
To wv gas guy, thanks for all the info. Youve done your homework. Ive even improved the mpg on my 96 volvo 5 cyl turbo by slowing down on the hiway and helping it shift up earlier with the accel You probably remember the dash vacuum guages they sold with economy color zones on them. If every car, hybrid or not had mpg guages most people would get better mpg. I got 44 on my tch holding it down to 50 and using you driving tips when practical Everyone squawks about gas prices but they flew be me like I was standing still.
Quite the contrary... not if you want 38+ gas milage. As per another post - if they put gauges like we have in ICE cars people would probably slow down and save gas.
As consumption is up 2% imagine and driving the speed limit saves one 20%... we would not have the current gas crises. I use to drive 80+ and now, for the first time in my 50 odd years, hate going over 70 unless it's a downhill and more often than not, get 40+ mpg. I am also more relaxed and arrive about 5 minutes later than driving at 80.
I agree with your point re going slower to get better mpg. You just have to be careful where you go slow. Going much slower than the traffic flow is dangerous.
Going much slower than the traffic flow is dangerous
I've found if I stay out of the left lane (where most Americans seem to want to stay) it's less crowded and if I drive 5mph under the limit I seldom have to pass and most people have no problem passing me. Every once in a while a "glob" of cars will catch up and the idiots (wouldn't be in a glob in the first place if they weren't) act like they don't know how to pass.
I refuse to speed up when some idiot that has seen me for a half mile in front of him refuses to get to the left.
In heavy traffic I've also found that I can usually find a large truck in the right lane to follow and easily be seen as a slow vehicle without hampering traffic any more than what the truck is doing anyway.
Do any of you know if synthetic oil is worthwhile in a TCH. My wife says she heard something about Toyota oil gelling and causing engine damage. Synthetic makes sense to me because of low friction and the fact that it doesent break down like the additives that breakdown and come out of solution because of excessive heat. Hoping to hear from wvgasguy or any other informed person on this topic
There is a lot of debate that has taken place on that topic here and on GreenHybrid. I'd be willing to sday it's more of a personal choice as there seems to be no scientific evidence I've read yet that it does indeed protect the engine better over the long term IF you change the oil every 5000 miles as recommended by Toyota. If (after warranty expires) a person wants to run extended oil services then I think synthetic makes a lot of sence. Possibly if a person has a lot of stop and go traffic and low annual milage I might consider it. For me I have a lot of low speed 2 lane trips and most of my milage is interstate, steady speed 70mph driving where the oil warms up and the engine is on idle a lot (38mpg gets a lot of idle time, even at 60 mph). I just don't see my engine needing or benefiting from synthetic.
Remember too that many of the "fanatics" are indeed running synthetic but they also are running 45 to 50 psig in their tires, using premium fuel, running with no A/C and windows up. I take their opinions for what they are, free advise.. Many people have been running synthetic for years and swear by it. Then again there has been issues posted where the synthetic has caused problems in some engines.
Synthetic is definately a better oil. However todays oils are more than good enough to protect your engine, especially for "normal" driving and if changed on the frequencies recommended.
My wife says she heard something about Toyota oil gelling and causing engine damage.
Yes I read that info after I bought my TCH. I believe that was an issue Toyota addressed and I have no heard of it as a problem with any of the newer Camry's. There is a lot of info posted on that as well. I just can't remember the details since that discussion took place a while back and I dismissed it as not applicable to my TCH.
For me, the bottom line is if there is a problem (and it could happen to any brand) who's most likely to step up and help me correct it. I'm betting Toyota will better than their competitors
I've been monitoring this forum, as my brother plans to buy a TCH. But, I can comment on the synthetic oil discussion, or at least inject one empirical piece of evidence in favor of its use. One of my cars is an old 1985 SAAB 900 sedan with the 8-valve 2.0L SOHC SAAB engine purchased new in April 1985. It currently has over 300K on the engine, and other than normal wear-and-tear items such as plugs, water pump, etc, nothing has been replaced - original timing chain, and the head has never been off. Mobil 1 10W-30 synthetic has been used since Day 1. Granted, one may also see such long-term reliability using a conventional motor oil, but for my use, I prefer synthetics. Cold starting in winter is a positive with synthetics, as well as resistance to break down at high temps.
Why shore! My sisters uncle's brother in law's father in law's grandmother uses that chit! then dares da neighbor who uses Penzoil and got over 500K on his ford lol.
"Why shore! My sisters uncle's brother in law's father in law's grandmother uses that chit! then dares da neighbor who uses Penzoil and got over 500K on his ford lol."
Penzoil, nothing like putting wax in the engine (paraffin, that is).
I'm always forgetting to turn off the ignition, but the car doesn't allow it -- as soon as I open the door to get out, it starts to beep like crazy. I'm not sure how you could have walked away with the fob and not been alerted.
The alert beeps are really not that noticable; not if you have had the music on and are trying to make a quick exit from the car. Even without the music on, the warning beeps are not that loud... except when I start driving without my seatbelt... that beep is annoying.
The beep only last two seconds when the FOB is out of range for me. But then, I am not anywhere near the car so I dont know if it beeps continually after that. I got mine in June 07. The toyota hybrids have a computer onboard that is programmable...either check the manual or contact Toyota. DOnt rely on the dealers as they dont know much.
As for me, I like the beeps. It tells me that someone else can drive away the car if I dont power it off. And yes, despite others claiming otherwise, you car is completely free for all when you leave the power on. Again, that's how mine is programmed. Its completely possible yours is programmed otherwise.
I just purchased my 2008 TCH 3 week ago, and I must say that it has totally changed my driving style. Prior to this car, I was driving a 2004 BMW 330 Ci Convertible, and my driving style was very aggressive. I feel that the reason for this is because the BMW seemed to put me in a mindset of performance, cornering and 0-60 mph acceleration, etc. However with gas prices into the $3.50/gallon range, decided to get rid of the premium gas requiring bimmer, and go green with the TCH. Since acquiring this car, my driving techniques have gone through a complete metamorphosis. I would like to thank Toyota for that. With the multiple guages, and fuel economy displays, I now focus on how to get the best MPG. It's amazing what a few guages can do for one's driving style. Just want to add my 2 cents to this wonderful forum.
P.S. WV, great post man. I have learned lots from your input here!!! Thanks.
Just bought a new 2008 TCH and I know that Toyota recommends their oil but I live quite aways from the dealer and like to do my own service. Any experience and recommends on quality brand name oil, viscosity and filters from other do-it-yourselfers? Thanks
I just bought a 2008 Toyota camry hybrid recently. Every time I stop and start the car again, the car start moving very slowly initially. It just doesn't give me the normal feeling as on other cars when I depress the accelerator padel. I am wondering whether any one have the same experience. Is this normal for Camry hybrid or due to some individual car problem?
I switched to synthetic oil, same weight. But i use Napa auto parts own brand. Unlike the 6.95 per quart, its 3.95, barely more than regular oil and you can change it urslef if you like or take it with you tyo ur local oil, lube n filter place
Does it seem heavy and sluggish off the line? Mine too. But then, it weighs more (370 lbs) than a non-hybrid model, has a less powerful 4-cyl engine, and is geared for fuel economy.
Once up and running (and maybe after the break-in period) push the pedal to the floor. Both power sources will kick in and, surprise, there's some real acceleration in the car after all.
Hi there. Can you tell me some of the things you did to change your driving style? So far, I've learned about slow starts and stops, and pulse and glide (altho" I'm still a little confused about that). What else have you found to help the mpg? Thanks :confuse:
I have read many of the descriptions of pulse and glide technique, but am still very confused about it. I took a trip on the xpressway yesterday and tried it, but apparently am not doing it correctly. I press down on the gas to get up to 65 or 70, and then remove my foot from the gas and then very lightly put it back on the accelerator. But the second I remove my foot from the accelerator, the speed drops, even if I put my foot back on gently or even when I go downhill. So what I did was give it gas until I hit 70, then removed my foot then just touched the pedal lightly, and when it dropped to 65 accelerated again, which happens within seconds. This seems like I'm definitely missing something, right? Can someone fill in the gaps here? Thanks! :confuse:
There is nothing mechanical that will kick in and lock on when this happens. It is not a one time thing. It is a learning process of training your foot to gently feather the pedal. Accelerate (on flat or downhill terrain) past where you want to cruise by a couple of mph and lift your foot so that the FE gage drops to the 60 mark. You may indeed lose 1 or 2 mph, that's why you go a little above your desired speed. Immediately touch the pedal lightly. Back off and on to get the feel of it while watching the FE gage to see how it reacts. To correctly do this you will also be depending on the state of charge of the battery. It only takes 35 to 45 hp to keep your car at cruise spped on the flat so if the battery is charged you should be able to maintain speed with the engine at idle (on the 60 mark).
The speed up and slow down method you describe will indeed occur if you try to P&G on an uphill grade. If there is no traffic behind you the willingness to drop 5 or 10 mph will pay off over time. But don't be a traffic hazard.
This is indeed a learning process and just about everyone who bought a TCH complains about their FE the first couple of tanks and are sure there is something wrong with their car. There is a better than good chance there is nothing wrong with their car.
Weather, especially if it's cold may put a bigger draw on power as the engine needs to run from time to time to heat the catalitic converter.
It takes time and once learned it is not the hassle it appears to be when first starting. Like any habit it takes repetition.
I live in the hills of West Virginia and after 38,000 miles am averaging 37.8 mpg. I was well over 38 when I finally quit worrying about it. I now get 36.5 on the interstate knowing the car can indeed get me 39 to 40 in the same situation. I get 38 just driving around where I used to get 40+.
I think I lost interest (feel guilty) knowing my other car (a Ford Expedition) only is getting 14 mpg ;o(
Oh come on... you have been a great inspiration to some of us... myself being one. Your reply here is a wonderful example of how consice and helpful you are. Right now... at this time... every car can't be a hybrid and I think your TCH more than makes up for your Expedition. Having traveled the hills of West Virginia extensively I am impressed that you get the kind of mpg's that you do.
WV guy: Thanks for the great explanation. I will keep trying-- for some reason, I am getting much better mpg on xpressways than in the city. Weird, huh? Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to help.
1. Change my own oil. Use Quaker state 5w-20. 2. 3900 miles on car now.. 1 oil change at 2500 miles. Probably not needed but hey 12 bucks later 3. Still getting 34 mpg city and about 39 on hwy 4. Definitely on short trips the MPG is less due to the battery discharging over night and then the engine needs to run more to get it charged and get those ions moving in the right direction :-) 5. Car still drives like it was new. No rattles, shakes or hums. Passengers still comment about how quiet it is, 6. My wife seems to get less MPG than I. When she drives a full tank she runs in the 32MPG range. Short distances for her, but I also think heavier foot from the Starting Line! (Good thing it will not burn rubber or I will be broke from new tires! ) 7. Car has been and always will be sluggish when going from a standstill if you push the gas pedal down like a conventional car. But if you need to move fast as somebody else said--- push the pedal all the way down and then watch and feel how much torque you get. It will move! Just depends if you want torque and speed or MPG.. Your choice- the beauty of this car! 8. Personally I wish the seats were a tad bit softer.. but life goes on. 9. The lighter by the shifter turns off when the engine is off. This sucks! Charge the cell phone in there. Like to leave the cell phone in there sometimes to charge while working inside and leave the car off.. This was the wifes complaint today. Have to see is there another lighter in the car behind that flip open door.... Check that another day. 10. Still happy with the car.. Especially as gas prices go higher.... Ed :P 8.
4. Definitely on short trips the MPG is less due to the battery discharging over night and then the engine needs to run more to get it charged and get those ions moving in the right direction
Actually the battery will hold it's charge for a long time. The problem with short trips is that the system is programmed to provide minimal emissions, so it will attempt to warm up the ICE as quickly as possible rather than save fuel. Combine short trips and have the first leg be the longest for best economy.
I am getting much better mpg on xpressways than in the city. Weird,
Unfortunately posters are from all over the country and that can confuse the new readers. Fortunately though I've been watching since may 06 when I got my TCH and can sort through the comments quickly. I was discouraged some at first when I was only getting 38mpg I soon realized many posters were in Arizona and some warm flat states. To understand the TCH you need to know the background of the posters. While I live in the hills of WV, there is also very little traffic to contend with. My idea of an interstate is much different than some who deal with a 6 lane full of traffic. If I want I can usually drive the limit on a 125 mile trip south without touching my brakes. On that trip I can get 41 mpg even though there are some steep grades. Driving the 4 lane to a town 30 miles away it is easy to get 35, a little effort to get 37 and if I try hard I can get 39. I've settled lately for the 37 effort. It is natural for me now.
City milage is the tricky one. I live in a rural town. I can drive around it completely without the ICE even kicking on. That's even stopping at several lights and stop signs. However there is usually no one behind me or they can simply pass me. Even short trips don't (or have not) hurt me as it's 3 miles into town and by the time I get there I can be hitting 44 mpg.
Rural driving is the "sweet" spot for the TCH. On a 2 lane road without a lot of traffic and driving 50 mph I can get 44+. I have not seen where the small hills hurt as for every hill I go up at 20 mpg I go down with hitting the 60 mark or E mode depending on speed.
However heavy traffic city driving can be difficult for some I'm sure when the traffic is stop and go during rush hour. But anytime other than rush hour can be rewarding. I recently drove for an hour of so around Baltimore and just looking around at the sights (mostly lost, even with Nav) I was able to get 42.
Cold weather with wet roads or wind hits you at least 7 to 10%. Doesn't sound like much until you figure 10% of 40 mpg is 4 mpg.
At 65mph FE is outstanding, at 75 mph it is difficult to get what you're expecting. many folks just won't give up their life style and that's OK because they still get 32 to 34. Only problem is they compare that to mileage they used to track and most people only track their vacation or trip milage. I've kept records for years and my average on just about every car and truck I've owned was at the low EPA city estimate. They are getting a lot better FE I believe than they ever did.
I hear people all the time telling me about getting 35 mpg in their car. They are driving Buick's and other mid size cars and frankly I don't believe them. Yes on a trip in a 4cy camry you might get 32 but in everyday driving as an average it is probably more like 25 or less.
Bottom line is you can probably do better than you are with practice but there will always be people getting better and even more people claiming to get better.
I get 38 to 41 on the highway (in warm dry weather) I get 37 to 44 in the city depending... I get 39 +/- on rural highways.
When I have time, my most frequent trip, a 25 miles round trip on back roads to my church I can P&G and do all sorts of things and my best yet is 52 mpg. Sort of like golf, if you're good you know what your score will be but you still try for better
I was driving a 2004 BMW 330 Ci Convertible, and my driving style was very aggressive
LOL, I gave up an Infiniti FX45 for the TCH. I loved to roll down the windows to hear it wind up. What a sweet sound. Lifetime FE of 16.2mpg ;(
Not only has my driving style change but while saving gas (and $'s), I looked at my lifestyle and I've started getting out of debt; planning for an "in the near future" retirement. With the tax credits, less fuel, lower payment and maintenance, I've saved $15,000 already over keeping the FX. I never used to worry about that but lately I've been able to realize what I can do with an extra $15,000
Oil, especially on this forum, raises a lot of personal optinions, sometimes emotional. I don't use synthetic and see no need. I don't believe with the wide variety of driving styles where anyone can definitively prove they get better FE either. I know the engine starts and stops often, but the engine most of the time is not under any sort of strain. I wouldn't fool with synthetic unless I wanted to extend my oil service (which I don't).
I believe Dino oil is pretty good stuff these days. I'd simply follow the mgfr recommendations.
Oil, especially on this forum, raises a lot of personal optinions, sometimes emotional. I don't use synthetic and see no need. I don't believe with the wide variety of driving styles where anyone can definitively prove they get better FE either. I know the engine starts and stops often, but the engine most of the time is not under any sort of strain. I wouldn't fool with synthetic unless I wanted to extend my oil service (which I don't).
I believe Dino oil is pretty good stuff these days. I'd simply follow the mgfr recommendations.
Comments
Remember that an overall ratio of any transmission at any given time is (simplified) the number of turns of the input shaft over the number of turns of the output shaft. When you get right down to it, MG1 actually controls the ratio through the power split device. If you have access to the Camry Hybrid New Car Features document (same set of documents that contains the Body Electrical document from Tundrasolutions.com) The Chassis document has about 12 pages that describes some of this, and the THS II document has even more info on how the Hybrid system controls the transaxle and how it is design to respond at different loads and conditions, including nomographic charts. This is the only place I've seen that accurately explains how the planetary split device works. Under "Function of Main Components" in the THS II document, in the description for MG1, it says "MG1 operates so that the gear ratio of the power split planetary gear unit will optimally suit the driving conditions of the vehicle."
I do thank you for all of your input on this forum. You have put out some very useful information.
Actually that's a very good question. I've seen lots of responses but not I consider definitive and absolute. I still would like to know from someone that has the literature to fully explain it. I've seen graphs but a simple one liner from a knowledgable person would be of benefit to all of us.
The only time I have used it is in traffic, downhill when I wanted to slow down without touching my brakes. I often find myself on steeper slopes "riding" my brake pedal lightly to expedite charging the battery (I assume that this actually provides more charging than simply lifting my foot from the gas (perhaps that's another good question)
For the sake of not wanting to tick everyone off that is following me at 75 while I ride my brakes downhill, B seems like the only reasonable safe option.
I think I know that it's for engine braking and thus I never could see how B necessarily has the opportunity to charge the battery.
Perhaps camyg has this info?
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/b-mode.html
One of the reasons that the Toyota HSD doesn't overstress the batteries is that they never are fully charged nor are they fully discharged. Regenerative braking can send lots of charge back to the batteries in normal stop and go driving. But the risk is that in a long steep downhill riding the brakes or even just being on/off with the brakes will send too much charge back to the batteries.
Therefore to avoid this situation they implemented an 'engine braking' system to slow you and not send so much back to the batteries.
That is the only time that the B mode should be used. It can be used other times but it's not all that effective. Just ignore it if you're driving in flat conditions.
http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/Understanding/PowerSplitDevice.htm
http://eahart.com/prius/psd
Oh well, just hope she doesn't do it again!
tom
There are many reports from owners who left the car running and took the FOB and the car ran continually until they got back.
What makes you think the car will shut off on it's own?
You probably remember the dash vacuum guages they sold with economy color zones on them. If every car, hybrid or not had mpg guages most people would get better mpg.
I got 44 on my tch holding it down to 50 and using you driving tips when practical
Everyone squawks about gas prices but they flew be me like I was standing still.
As consumption is up 2% imagine and driving the speed limit saves one 20%... we would not have the current gas crises. I use to drive 80+ and now, for the first time in my 50 odd years, hate going over 70 unless it's a downhill and more often than not, get 40+ mpg. I am also more relaxed and arrive about 5 minutes later than driving at 80.
I've found if I stay out of the left lane (where most Americans seem to want to stay) it's less crowded and if I drive 5mph under the limit I seldom have to pass and most people have no problem passing me. Every once in a while a "glob" of cars will catch up and the idiots (wouldn't be in a glob in the first place if they weren't) act like they don't know how to pass.
I refuse to speed up when some idiot that has seen me for a half mile in front of him refuses to get to the left.
In heavy traffic I've also found that I can usually find a large truck in the right lane to follow and easily be seen as a slow vehicle without hampering traffic any more than what the truck is doing anyway.
Then again I don't live in LA or NYC
My wife says she heard something about Toyota oil gelling and causing engine damage.
Synthetic makes sense to me because of low friction and the fact that it doesent break down like the additives that breakdown and come out of solution because of excessive heat.
Hoping to hear from wvgasguy or any other informed person on this topic
Remember too that many of the "fanatics" are indeed running synthetic but they also are running 45 to 50 psig in their tires, using premium fuel, running with no A/C and windows up. I take their opinions for what they are, free advise.. Many people have been running synthetic for years and swear by it. Then again there has been issues posted where the synthetic has caused problems in some engines.
Synthetic is definately a better oil. However todays oils are more than good enough to protect your engine, especially for "normal" driving and if changed on the frequencies recommended.
Yes I read that info after I bought my TCH. I believe that was an issue Toyota addressed and I have no heard of it as a problem with any of the newer Camry's. There is a lot of info posted on that as well. I just can't remember the details since that discussion took place a while back and I dismissed it as not applicable to my TCH.
For me, the bottom line is if there is a problem (and it could happen to any brand) who's most likely to step up and help me correct it. I'm betting Toyota will better than their competitors
Penzoil, nothing like putting wax in the engine (paraffin, that is).
As for me, I like the beeps. It tells me that someone else can drive away the car if I dont power it off. And yes, despite others claiming otherwise, you car is completely free for all when you leave the power on. Again, that's how mine is programmed. Its completely possible yours is programmed otherwise.
P.S. WV, great post man. I have learned lots from your input here!!! Thanks.
Thanks
But i use Napa auto parts own brand. Unlike the 6.95 per quart, its 3.95, barely more than regular oil and you can change it urslef if you like or take it with you tyo ur local oil, lube n filter place
Good luck
Once up and running (and maybe after the break-in period) push the pedal to the floor. Both power sources will kick in and, surprise, there's some real acceleration in the car after all.
The speed up and slow down method you describe will indeed occur if you try to P&G on an uphill grade. If there is no traffic behind you the willingness to drop 5 or 10 mph will pay off over time. But don't be a traffic hazard.
This is indeed a learning process and just about everyone who bought a TCH complains about their FE the first couple of tanks and are sure there is something wrong with their car. There is a better than good chance there is nothing wrong with their car.
Weather, especially if it's cold may put a bigger draw on power as the engine needs to run from time to time to heat the catalitic converter.
It takes time and once learned it is not the hassle it appears to be when first starting. Like any habit it takes repetition.
I live in the hills of West Virginia and after 38,000 miles am averaging 37.8 mpg. I was well over 38 when I finally quit worrying about it. I now get 36.5 on the interstate knowing the car can indeed get me 39 to 40 in the same situation. I get 38 just driving around where I used to get 40+.
I think I lost interest (feel guilty) knowing my other car (a Ford Expedition) only is getting 14 mpg ;o(
Keep up the great work:-)
2. 3900 miles on car now.. 1 oil change at 2500 miles. Probably not needed but hey 12 bucks later
3. Still getting 34 mpg city and about 39 on hwy
4. Definitely on short trips the MPG is less due to the battery discharging over night and then the engine needs to run more to get it charged and get those ions moving in the right direction :-)
5. Car still drives like it was new. No rattles, shakes or hums. Passengers still comment about how quiet it is,
6. My wife seems to get less MPG than I. When she drives a full tank she runs in the 32MPG range. Short distances for her, but I also think heavier foot from the Starting Line! (Good thing it will not burn rubber or I will be broke from new tires! )
7. Car has been and always will be sluggish when going from a standstill if you push the gas pedal down like a conventional car. But if you need to move fast as somebody else said--- push the pedal all the way down and then watch and feel how much torque you get. It will move! Just depends if you want torque and speed or MPG.. Your choice- the beauty of this car!
8. Personally I wish the seats were a tad bit softer.. but life goes on.
9. The lighter by the shifter turns off when the engine is off. This sucks! Charge the cell phone in there. Like to leave the cell phone in there sometimes to charge while working inside and leave the car off.. This was the wifes complaint today. Have to see is there another lighter in the car behind that flip open door.... Check that another day.
10. Still happy with the car.. Especially as gas prices go higher....
Ed :P
8.
Actually the battery will hold it's charge for a long time. The problem with short trips is that the system is programmed to provide minimal emissions, so it will attempt to warm up the ICE as quickly as possible rather than save fuel. Combine short trips and have the first leg be the longest for best economy.
Unfortunately posters are from all over the country and that can confuse the new readers. Fortunately though I've been watching since may 06 when I got my TCH and can sort through the comments quickly. I was discouraged some at first when I was only getting 38mpg
I soon realized many posters were in Arizona and some warm flat states. To understand the TCH you need to know the background of the posters. While I live in the hills of WV, there is also very little traffic to contend with. My idea of an interstate is much different than some who deal with a 6 lane full of traffic. If I want I can usually drive the limit on a 125 mile trip south without touching my brakes. On that trip I can get 41 mpg even though there are some steep grades. Driving the 4 lane to a town 30 miles away it is easy to get 35, a little effort to get 37 and if I try hard I can get 39. I've settled lately for the 37 effort. It is natural for me now.
City milage is the tricky one. I live in a rural town. I can drive around it completely without the ICE even kicking on. That's even stopping at several lights and stop signs. However there is usually no one behind me or they can simply pass me. Even short trips don't (or have not) hurt me as it's 3 miles into town and by the time I get there I can be hitting 44 mpg.
Rural driving is the "sweet" spot for the TCH. On a 2 lane road without a lot of traffic and driving 50 mph I can get 44+. I have not seen where the small hills hurt as for every hill I go up at 20 mpg I go down with hitting the 60 mark or E mode depending on speed.
However heavy traffic city driving can be difficult for some I'm sure when the traffic is stop and go during rush hour. But anytime other than rush hour can be rewarding. I recently drove for an hour of so around Baltimore and just looking around at the sights (mostly lost, even with Nav) I was able to get 42.
Cold weather with wet roads or wind hits you at least 7 to 10%. Doesn't sound like much until you figure 10% of 40 mpg is 4 mpg.
At 65mph FE is outstanding, at 75 mph it is difficult to get what you're expecting. many folks just won't give up their life style and that's OK because they still get 32 to 34. Only problem is they compare that to mileage they used to track and most people only track their vacation or trip milage. I've kept records for years and my average on just about every car and truck I've owned was at the low EPA city estimate. They are getting a lot better FE I believe than they ever did.
I hear people all the time telling me about getting 35 mpg in their car. They are driving Buick's and other mid size cars and frankly I don't believe them. Yes on a trip in a 4cy camry you might get 32 but in everyday driving as an average it is probably more like 25 or less.
Bottom line is you can probably do better than you are with practice but there will always be people getting better and even more people claiming to get better.
I get 38 to 41 on the highway (in warm dry weather)
I get 37 to 44 in the city depending...
I get 39 +/- on rural highways.
When I have time, my most frequent trip, a 25 miles round trip on back roads to my church I can P&G and do all sorts of things and my best yet is 52 mpg. Sort of like golf, if you're good you know what your score will be but you still try for better
LOL, I gave up an Infiniti FX45 for the TCH. I loved to roll down the windows to hear it wind up. What a sweet sound. Lifetime FE of 16.2mpg ;(
Not only has my driving style change but while saving gas (and $'s), I looked at my lifestyle and I've started getting out of debt; planning for an "in the near future" retirement. With the tax credits, less fuel, lower payment and maintenance, I've saved $15,000 already over keeping the FX. I never used to worry about that but lately I've been able to realize what I can do with an extra $15,000
I believe Dino oil is pretty good stuff these days. I'd simply follow the mgfr recommendations.
I believe Dino oil is pretty good stuff these days. I'd simply follow the mgfr recommendations.