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2008 Pontiac G8
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Comments
What's so bad about that? If you change models every three years you have to start all over and never get it right.
Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic.
Regards,
OW
The G8 is finally what will compete. Again, it's an import. The cars that will excited should have been developed as the 'Vette and Mustang. Home-grown Camaro and Challenger. It takes desperate times and finally these classics return.
I wish you the best of luck with the G8 and your C5!
Regards,
OW
parts may be imported....but does point of assembly count more.....Im not so much worried about import vs domestic.....but the US manufacturers are still playing catch up...are making progress......but only time will tell
Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic.
No I mean the same car. The Ford Ranger has not changed at all in 15 years other than very minor tweaks. Same for the GM/CV. The Vette, Mustang, 3-series, Corolla, Civic have all changed a lot over the past 15 years, the chassis are different.
-mike
parts may be imported....but does point of assembly count more.....Im not so much worried about import vs domestic.....but the US manufacturers are still playing catch up...are making progress......but only time will tell
I agree, and more to the point why do we care so much about where a product is made, so long as the product is GOOD. I would buy a car from India or Ireland, or South Africa if the product was going to give me good value for my money. Be it "value" in terms of fun, or reliability or what not.
With that said, let's try to keep this on the topic of the G8 rather than US v. Imports, there are lots of those topics we can carry this discussion on in.
-mike
What is a G8?? Should have called it Grand Prix. It's almost as if they knew GP's were junk and didn't want to tarnish a good example of what Pontiac should have been making HERE IN THE US all along.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
What is a G8?? Should have called it Grand Prix. It's almost as if they knew GP's were junk and didn't want to tarnish a good example of what Pontiac should have been making HERE IN THE US all along.
Regards,
OW
Again, I repeat, what does it matter where or by who or by what name a car is? So long as it delivers "value" (whatever that value may be to an individual)?
I guess the name itself could be the "value" but those folks who buy on name alone, are pretty shallow people to begin with. Guess that's why, although I like MB and BMW, I never really was able to get along with the other owners because a lot of them had bought for the name alone.
-mike
"All cars designed and built in the U.S.A. by Ford, GM and Chrysler are of secondary quality. The foreign manufacturers, including GM-owned Holden show their quality in looks, driving feel and lasting quality far better."
Yet the same person asks why GM doesn't make the G8 in America. The obvious answer: then prejudice people that don't believe the V6 Merc. Milan is much more reliable than a V6 Camry won't buy it.
This is because they have owned a handful of old American cars and believe their test results on dependability is far superior and scientific than the thousands of surveys CR & JD powers conducted. What do you do with the phony expert.
BTW, I both my vette & 94 Impalla SS are/were fun America vehicles
I posted this quote by Jack Welch on other forums which is appropriate at a time when the the Detroit 3 and the Financial Industry are experiencing hard times:
"Change before you have to."
The US manufactures are ridiculous!
Watch the customers not me. When a product is good I buy it. When there is better, I follow.
The G8 is good. I am not sure how much it will help GM since it is in limited supply so far.
Regards,
OW
This survey shows CUSTOMER choice for 2008 MY vehicles. 18 out of 26 segment winners are:
IMPORTS! That is why G8 is a great choice!
2008 Motorist Choice Awards
I did not participate!
Regards,
OW
Though I was impressed with the G8! I would drive a white one, it was quite fun to drive! I loved the size, I felt right at home.
That is because you in particular put driving characteristics in the "value" column. I am a road race instructor, so I also put this in my value column, however, I absolutely understand that 90% of the car buying public don't care what name or how their car handles. They see them as an applicance that takes them from point A to point B at the best gas milage, least CELs, and least maintenance cost. That is the value that they want. These are the folks who buy accords, camarys, and the other cars you put down as being "boring". Unfortunately boring sells well. Especially right now when money is getting more scarece.
As much as I refer to Cam/cord/altima as refrigirators to my non-car enthusiast friends they say "Yup, that's what I want". So "value" is very subjective however if Ford or GM or Chrysler sold a superior product with lower cost of ownership and more "value" then they would be outselling the Camcordtima 2-1. Why aren't they outselling them?
-mike
The fusion, Milan, MKZ are very reliable. American vehicles are more reliable than vehicles from Europe. Mercury, Lincoln, Buick, Jaguar, & Cadillac are more reliable than Nissan, Infinity & Mitsubishi. Furthermore, they are tied on reliability with Honda, & Toyota. Yet look at all the stupid comments from posts in this Blog. The Pontiac is only reliable because it isn’t made here. Toyota & Honda are currently benchmarks for reliability. Cars built in Europe are built much better and reliable than American cars.
Nobody seems to mention the vette ZO6 with its amazing 600HP pushrod engine. Or the Viper which is most likely exciting vehicle on the planet to drive fast. Even the G8 is a balanced RWD sedan with an American pushrod V8 built by a GM plant in Australia. The CTS V can run away from most of the competition. The large Chryslers have awesome hemi engines, etc and don’t fall of the road like an Avalon when the road is not perfectly straight. GMs large trucks are the most fuel efficient.
Look at Acura. A supposedly high-end Honda that has 60% of its weight on the front tires. The first thing taught in racing school is to keep equal weight front to rear using gas and brakes. Acura charges the premium price like Mercedes, BMW, etc yet they serve up torque steer like no tomorrow. Step on the gas the front tires get lighter and lighter as all of the weight [non-permissible content removed] to the back of the car. The faster you accelerate the lighter the drive wheels get. This is what Japan gave us.
One person in this blog thought he was an expert because he owned about 5-6 cars and thought his reliability test results were far superior to JD powers & Consumer Reports who send out thousands of surveys.
Yet I just gave my last two American vehicles to my kids who just got their licenses. They both have over 150k miles. I also drove a Crown Vic 280k miles (original engine and transmission). Somebody registered it after me.
Just look at all the crap in these posts made by “masters of misinformation”. If you believe the crap from these posts, American vehicles would have to be far superior to their foreign rivals to be rated equal because everyone wants to drive America into the ground. I can’t tell you how many engineers I worked with that wanted to see the only successful American company (Microsoft) torn apart for being a monopoly. The engineers would have felt much better if it was Sony.
Let’s face it, if American cars are inferior you can see why. Look at all these careless error burdened posts made right here by the same Americans who may be designing are cars. How can you expect American’s who can’t even read and retain simple reliability studies accurately to design and build a decent car.
And let’s not forget the dumbest American’s of all who work for the United Auto Unions and kept on striking for better insurance, higher wages, more breaks, more power and legacy layoff packages as their companies were going under because they could not compete with their foreign rivals that don’t carry all the legacy baggage. I believe the surcharge to pay these benefits to employees amounted to a $2500 per vehicle deficit over the foreign rivals.
The G8 is an excellent car for the money It blows away Nissan, Toyota & Honda in most drivability tests while it serves up more room and maintains a decent ride.
Enough said???
As for the other comments, the G8 is great because it's not made here. Period. If it was, it would ride like a Grand Prix. It doesn't! Thank GOODNESS!
The business model of the US manufacturers continues to drive them into sub-par desirability, and therefore sales follows.
I am far below expert and so are all of the customers who are flocking to the Asians.
As far as the Germans, the performance blows away all but a few high end US halo cars. You don't drive a US car if you DESIRE TO DRIVE!
BTW, the last time I saw dealers being built in my area, they ALL REPRESENTED FOREIGN MANUFACTURERS! It must be my imagination!
Regards,
OW
And BTW, I am glad gas is @ $4 a gal because China is fighting us for it to produce products for lazy Americans that can't even read reliability studies accurately.
I can't believe you think the UAW union with its hight paid & insured workers dis not affect the big three.
Smile!
Regards,
OW
Many innovations too such as the minivan, SUV, even the first Antilock brakes in the old Tbirds & Lincolns.
That said, it is inaccurate to say we do not produce reliable vehicles or all our vehicles are junk. I have read this over a 100 times in these postings and it just goes to show the uphill battle the big three face. Even when the reliability is equal American's keep trying to drive them to their grave. These same people don't have a clue. Some of them base their advise and decisions on a couple of old samples rather than thousands of surveys.
I would still rather drive a big Chrysler, CTS, G8 or even a Lincoln Town car then a FWD Avalon. You may laugh, but I hate fighting a steering wheel during hard acceleration. Even Cadillac realized how wrong Japan was with this setup and changed all but one of its vehicles back to RWD. That is more than you can say for Honda's high-end Acura division.
Furthermore, the G8 has a American pushrod V8 which makes it lighter, smaller in physical size, more torque & most importantly it has a lower center of gravity than OHC engines.
The G8 was produced by GM, be it the Holden division and really doesn't have much competition from Japan which produces mostly appliances at that price point.
Better yet when a vehicles is sold the profit stays in America NOT Japan.
-mike
Thanks for your future cooperation!
Thanks
Unfortunately, the GP, like many other cherished namesakes in the American car industry, has lost it's luster over the years. The majority of people under 35 or so hear Gran Prix and think of those years of unrefined powertrains and gaudy plastic that Pontiac slapped on every doggone thing. They don't think of the big-block, six-pack variations that were awesome! They needed to come out with new names to break from the history that's etched in so many minds. Plus, I think they sound sportier than Bonneville or Gran Prix. IMO, GTO, Z28, 350Z, 911.......they just sound better.
Now, I grew up in a GM household, mainly Olds, Buick, and Chevys. My dad still has the '70 Chevelle SS 396 that he bought in '72 OR '73. My 1st two cars were a '64 Impala (327 Turbo-fire) and a '78 Cutlass (305-V8 4-barrel). After my beautiful Cutlass was totalled (rear-ended on the way to school one morning), I got a Honda Accord hatchback. I was elated--probably because most of the upper class kids drove [non-permissible content removed] cars and I liked the manual tranny for dumping the clutch. I put a 180k on it before selling it to a former neighbor who continued driving it for many years. I think bought a Mazda 626 which I sold with 247k miles on it. Next I bought a '96 Maxima which I just sold a year ago with just under 250k miles on it and, other than a starter, radiator, and temp sensor, I never did more than scheduled maintenance on it. All of them were in good running condition when I sold them. All this to say that I've been on of those, "I like how some of the US cars look, but I'll always by Japanese" people....until recently.
The US has always had a car here or there that I would "take a chance and buy", like the Marauder, '94-'96 Impala SS, and GTO. I just tend to put a lot of miles on a car and I've been spoiled by my Japanese models, so I have to feel that I can get 200k on a car w/out problems before I buy it. I broke down (bad choice of words)and bought a Ford Exploder.....oops! I mean Explorer...... because we were starting a family and wanted the room. MISTAKE! Including the transmission that crapped out around 80k, I spent waaaaay more in repairs in the 4 years we had it than I spent in 9 years of owning my Maxima, so we dumped it and got an Infiniti for my wife to drive. Couldn't be happier with that.
I personally am a Nissan guy, and still drive a Maxima. HOWEVER, I love the G8. I was planning on getting an Infiniti M after my current Maxima, but if the first few years prove them to be reliable and sturdy, I'm about 80% sure that will be my next car. It invokes the same classic, big, muscle car feeling that are reminiscent of "the good ol' days" like the '95 Impala SS, but does so in a MUCH better package. The interior and ride quality are light years ahead of past efforts, and are world-class. WAY TO GO PONTIAC!!! Now, if we could just get a comparable RWD Chevy.......
BTW, I'm really hoping for some good GM card promotions in December (like the 5K for my GTO in 2004) As much as I love our good ole' Trooper, a nice G8 instead (and for cheap) will be a good way to prop up the Australian economy and put Exxon back on track
I thought that, too, until I sat in one. I was so disappointed. The design is nice, but the materials... And when I opened the glove box, my face melted! :surprise: :sick:
I look at CR and data for cars 4 years or older all the time (I just like to keep my cars for a long time since the ones I pick are safe and don't break often.) JD Powers INITIAL quality may be on par for selected domestics but you may want to check that long-term reliability and especially resale values again.
You compare Camry with Fusion and then you go on the tirade how inferior this Toyota is to the G8 and other RWD cars which no one has ever argued (???) You might want to read your title again and look in the mirror, dude.
There must be a lot of grandmas and people concerned with gas mileage out there since Camry is #1 selling American-made vehicle. It even robbed the selectively Mexican-made F-150 off this title in April.
I can't believe we're even talking about this here but I'm not the one who started it. I love the G8, its economy is troublesome to me but nothing a nice December incentive cannot fix.
The argument of "profits" staying in this country always comes up but c'mon when was the last time anyone has seen them? Not sure if it came completely unnoticed but WE just shelled out $25 billion (within that $700 billion bail-out package) to the domestic automakers which at the current burn rate, should just keep their lights on for a couple of months. Put that (and whatever tens of billions of $$$ that follow) towards education, infrastructure, and alternative energy R&D and have a real positive impact on the economy instead.
I think our definitions of exciting or car with character are different. The Camcordima are all very very good cars, don't get me wrong, but they are appliances in that the owners (for the most part) use them as appliances, a way to get from point A to point B w/o ever knowing or caring about anything else related to the car. They are great for their purpose, just not a car for me to own since car-appliances aren't my style. The reason I don't lump the Fusion or Malibu into that "Appliance" category is not because they are exciting to drive, but they lack to reliability long term that the Camcordima has, just like your Maytag fridge that goes and goes and then you replace it with another one, never seeing the repair guy etc.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Ford looks like it'll be trading below $1.00 soon which would make it a penny stock!
GM has dropped like a rock the past 2 weeks as well.
Thankfully tomorrow and Sunday there is no trading so they won't slide back any further.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
When we started going to India for our engineering because it was cheap labor and we had a shortage, everyone thought it was good. Now our software engineers are out of work. Engineers that I worked with wanted to sink Microsoft when the monopoly litigation was occurring. The were probably mad it wasn't Sony at the top. We are playing with fire. I have a feeling the striking UAutoW, the lousy American engineers not just at FMC and GM but all of us will be sorry some day for trashing America even when it the information being touted is not true. All the cars are made everywhere. That said, giving the profit to a foreign company on every car sold can't be good. I have read many articles on the issue.
And for those of you that can can manage to get to the CR online "reliability of new models" section. They can find their Camrys 6 vehicles from the absolute bottom with a big black bar that extends to the "worst than average" area of the graph. Guess I wasn't hearing things when I drove that mush bucket. It really did rattle.
Don't blame our economic problems on foreign countries, look within for the problems.
Also just an FYI, FMC and GM can and probably are stocks owned by foreign companies, so are we really supporing "our own country" by buying american branded cars?
Everyone here helped to contribute to the exporting of jobs, I'm sure that 90% of what you are wearing is made somewhere overseas. No one was crying a river when my Italian-American ancestors were laid off from the clothing industy in favor of cheap foreign goods. Nope they had to roll with it and adapt to the new landscape in terms of jobs. Same goes for auto workers etc. If the jobs aren't here for what you can do, you either move to where the jobs are or you adapt to what the local economy supports....
[ / rant off ]
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
To your thoughts on the 25k Engineer v. 125k Engineer, why should I as the consumer pay for the 125k Engineer to design my car, IF and this is a big IF the 25k Engineer can do the same thing for less money? That's the whole basis of the Capitalism System that competition will yield a better cheaper product!
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
GMs Holden transplant G8 is a much better car than the Camry. And just as when Toyota sells a Camry here, GM gets a check when they sell a vehicle in Australia. It is the same deal, yet everyone knocks GM for doing the same thing Toyota is doing.
And GM has a good reason for doing it. The legacy UAW payoffs costs GM a $2500 premium for every vehicle sold. The premium goes to a lazy American for striking rather than working. We compete against a lot of countries where the salaries are pittance compared to ours.
The fact is that the demise of the big 3 was inevitable. Arrogance breeds weakness in the end. Yes it will hurt our economy just like drunken consumers lived on credit to buy what they could not afford.
CR or JD Power can't help the poor products that came out of Detroit. GM and Chrysler are talking merger. It doesn't have to go to bankruptcy and I think this is a great time to do something drastic.
Regards,
OW
That's why the G8, 2008 CTS and 2008 Malibu stand out like beacons. Not the usual junk you see in the show rooms.
Regards,
OW
I agree with yah. Same arguement I got into at an autoshow with a Ford rep. They could not give me a single reason to buy their FWD mid/small sedan over a foreign car other than "Support America". Actually when that arguement didn't work, she went so far as to say, well buy a Ford because we donated money to 9/11 relief efforts. That's when I lost it and went off on this lady because she was trying to use 9/11 donations by Ford to sell me a car. In retrospect, I should have taken her name and gotten her fired for such comments!
I heard about the GM-Chrysler merger. That could get very interesting.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
How bloody true is that!
I give it to you in one word,Bush.
I seriously doubt anything we do here (Australia) would affect you guys.
But what Bush did with your Banking System over there has screwed things here big time as well.
Still, our Government has always been heavily regulating the banks here and we will ride out this disaster far better than you guys.
The BIG BIG BIG bonus for you guys is the fact that the $AU has been sold heavily for no damn reason at all other than Americans need the cash.
Expect,(DEMAND) that you get your G8`s cheaper from the Dealers as our $ dropped over 25 cents against yours.
Therefore, it is cheaper for your Dealers to buy them now.
They most likely have a bigger margin now, so haggle the hell out of them.
On a differant note, Have any of the Utes arrived yet?
I heard over here that it was put to a vote to name them and you came up with G8 ST (Sports Truck)?
They are hugely popular here, we call them a sports car with a bloody big boot (trunk), lol!
Also, our SS (G8) our now running with the 6.2 litre motor and the HSV`s are using the LS3.
To hell with the price of fuel, we pay way more than you anyway.
Life is too short, enjoy them while you can.