Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

gmginsfo · May 2003

Deepdrop, thanks for the info. Better midrange is what I want, but frankly I'd like to hear from more folks. I'm glad the redundant tweeters weren't a problem; I saw the crossover circuitry as defeating one or the other set of high range speakers.

OK, now I'm REALLY intrigued: what's all this talk about a cooler for the AT??? I tend to drive fast and moderately hard, so I'd like to know more. And please, let's talk price!

p0926 · May 2003

It's always been my understanding that an AT cooler is only necessary if you do much towing and perhaps auto-xing. Just driving fast or "agressively" doesn't justify needing one. However, I'm sure that paisan will chime in if I'm wrong ;-)

-Frank P.

95gl · May 2003

Has anyone replaced a passenger side mirror? I have an 02 that apparently someone smacked the other day. The electronics work fine and it is fully attached, it just rotates 180 deg. on me.

I called my dealership and the service writer told me that I would have to replace the entire mirror. I really don't want to just hand over $150 plus the material cost for this thing if I don't have to. Any ideas?

mckeown · May 2003

Keri, You can try the following link and search on 2002 Subaru Forester used RH Mirror
http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi
Or try contacting Russ at Liberty Subaru in Oradell (by Paramus)NJ if you want a new one. Just send him a note requesting a price quote at the following link:
http://www.newsubaru.com/LIBERTY/Liberty_Subarx.html
I've used both and been satisfied.

rochcom · May 2003

Racing shops and some tire shops have machines that shave tires. For racing, too much tread depth is a bad thing. It creats squirm that creates heat and excessive wear and loss of grip. Racers wil often shave tires to reduce tread depth. So, if you have to replace one tire and the others are too far out to be within Subaru's spec, simply have the new tire shaved to the same depth as the existing ones. This should cost less than replacing 3 perfectly good tires.

ateixeira · May 2003

Duck: one issue is that spares are generally for temporary use. So you wouldn't drive far on that new tire.

Pat: the XT will add $5000 (or less) to the price of an XS. I guarantee it! ;-)

Keri: if yours is an S, the mirror is heated, and that explains the cost. Try a wholesaler like subaruparts.com or Liberty as per above.

If it's an L, try a junk yard like this one that specializes in Subies:

http://www.fsautoparts.com/

-juice

paisan · May 2003

Generally you used to put in coolers for racing and towing. Personally? I'd put them in any AT car because the #1 way to kill an AT Tranny is excessive heat. By putting in a $100 cooler you get an extra assurance that it won't overheat the ATF.

-mike

ateixeira · May 2003

Figure you maybe double the life of the tranny, whatever that would normally be (100-150k?) for 5% of the cost of a new one.

-juice

danjaecks · May 2003

ducktapeguy - thanks for the link.
rsay777 - I believe there is an industry standard pattern for rotating all 5 tires. I used to do that back in the days when all cars came with full size full service spares.

Sounds to me that the best thing to do is to revert to rotating all 5. That should be easy for the smart people who saved their money and bought the Forester L (w/ 5 matching steel wheels) instead of the S. Those of us with the alloy wheels will want to buy a matching alloy wheel.
I might do this for peace of mind. It seems to me that Subaru should have used matching spares and told us to rotate all 5 tires from the beginning. (Or at least made it an option.) That way you just buy 5 matching new tires when the time comes and the spare will always be the same size as the others. In the long run it costs the same.
Dan J

p0926 · May 2003

Pat: the XT will add $5000 (or less) to the price of an XS. I guarantee it! ;-)

It better be $2500 or less if they want me to buy one!

-Frank P.

ateixeira · May 2003

I was just leaving myself plenty of room for error.

I'm hoping it's $2000 more, that would make it a performance bargain. Vue Redline looks to be the only real challenger under $30k.

-juice

95gl · May 2003

but I have another question.

Has anyone replaced a mirror? How difficult do you think it could be? It looks like the mirror (a used one) is running around $150. My car is an L so no heated mirrors - just the movement mechanism.

I've done radios and other type of things in the past (over 10 years ago!) but I am a little nervous.

boba6 · May 2003

My nail hole is patched, so I hope I don't have to worry about this for a while, but all the circumference talk got me thinking. When it's time to replace the tires, does anyone buy 5 new tires? Beyond the circumference issues, I imagine running one tire with a different tread pattern would cause some problems, although maybe more ride-related that drivetrain-related. My guess would be that 5 would just be an extreme waste of money, not only to toss a virtually unused tire, but that new spare will, apparently, be incompatible with the other 3 after 5-10K. I think it means that we just keep the OE spare, but treat it basically like a full sized doughnut; it should probably be used only for 100 miles or so. Even with different tread and circumference, I would hope the system would be robust enough to handle the difference for that length of time. Anyway, I've enjoyed the discussion, and thanks for all the help.
Bob

ducktapeguy · May 2003

Here it is, straight from subaru.

************************************************
Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your message. We appreciate that you want to do what is best for your 2001 Forester S Premium Package. If you have a flat tire, you can use the spare tire regardless of the mileage on your Forester and the other three tires on your vehicle. Spare tires are only meant to be used temporarily and should be replaced with a 'regular' tire as soon as possible. Because the amount of time is short, the spare tire not being within 1/4 inch circumference of the other tires would not be a concern.

We strongly recommend not using all 5 tires in your tire rotation. This would make it almost impossible to have all 4 tires on the vehicle within 1/4 inch circumference of each other. This could cause a problem because of the length of time that you would drive with the tires not within this specification.

Thanks for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future assistance, please feel free to contact us again.

Best wishes,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.
**********************************************

So it looks like the drivetrain can handle more than 1/4" difference, but not indefinitely. Although I'm not sure what they consider to be a "short" amount of time.

Juice,
On my car the spare tire is no different than the regular tires, so I wouldn't see a problem with using it permanently if it was within the spec. I thought all subarus' came with a full size spare?

gmginsfo,
I bought my cooler for $50, but they sell cheaper ones for about $30 at any autoparts store. Installation looks like it'll take less than an hours, and I thought it would be good insurance against tranny failure. From a couple of different websites (I lumped it all together):

"As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half. The approximate life expectancy at various temperatures is as follows:
175F 100,000 miles
195F 50,000 miles
212F 25,000 miles (ATF starts breaking down)
235F 12,000 miles (Varnishes form)
255F 6,250 miles (Seals harden, Damage starts)
275F 3,000 miles
295F 1,500 miles (transmission start slipping, clutches burn out and carbon forms)
315F 750 miles ($$$$)
335F 325 miles ($$$$$$$$)
375F 80 miles ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
390F 40 miles (bye bye tranny)
415F Less than 30 minutes "

I think the optimum range for transmission fluid is somewhere between 160-180 degrees. The stock transmission cooler is integrated with the radiator, which i think runs at around 180-200? degrees normally. So even when everything is working as it should be, the transmission temp is already at the high end. And most likely, the transmission temperature is probably even higher, because it will never get to the same temperature of the coolant. That's my reason for getting one, I might just be paranoid. But I figure it couldn't really hurt anything, and it's cheap.

once_for_all · May 2003

IMO, it is better to rotate the 4 alloys until done, then buy 3 new Geolanders and bring the spare from the steel wheel on. The best of the original 4 goes back onto the steel rim as a spare. I figure that will keep the tires more uniform. The 5 wheel tire rotation is always going to have 1 or more tires of different wear conditions, which is going to be hard on the drivetrain. Further, this is the best economical solution.

John

damax07 · May 2003

Just got back from a Subaru dealership in Delray Beach (South FLA). They are expecting their first XT (Black) in early June, MSRP is $25,700. Hope this give some direction regarding pricing.
Damax07

gened1 · May 2003

are automatic transmissions falling out/giving up the ghost in any numbers to warrant another external trany cooler? Does someone have these figures?
just curious.
Gene

paisan · May 2003

The subie ATFs are quite robust, but more cooling is always a good thing on these vehicles given that they are AWD (more friction than FWD or RWD) etc.

-mike

paulusi · May 2003

Clock problem on Forester '99 Limited by paulusi

Dear fellas,

the time clock --(overhead) is dead (stop working) on my forester '99 Limited.

* is this a common issue ?
* is this fixable / repairable ?
* does anyone know what causes this?
* does anyone know how much roughly to replace
   including labour ?

NB: the whole car, i think is sux.
    another 3 days, i have to replace the rear
    wheel bearings (which is NOT cheap).
    now I got this clock issue.

tks all

ducktapeguy · May 2003

I haven't heard anything about subaru specific tranny failures for the AT (the MT is a whole different story), but but the general consensus among the websites seems to be that 9 out of 10 tranny failures are due to overheating. This may just be marketing hype by companies trying to scare you into buying their stuff (it worked on me), but even if it was subject to the usual marketing hype, it still seems like a lot. Plus this gives me a good excuse to buy something for my car. And you can always use it on another car in the future. So it was a a simple decision for me.

http://www.checkthatcar.com/new_check/transmission.asp

http://www.parttrackers.com/library/1/56/58/

I haven't had any big problems with my trans yet, but I'm hoping to avoid any. I check my fluid pretty regularly, and I can notice that the fluid starts to smell burnt after about 20K miles. So I'm going to replace everything with synthetic and see if it holds up any better.

armac13 · May 2003

I switched to synthetic ATF very early on with my Forester. I had 2 drain and fills done, so the synthetic content was about 87% +/-. I found the shifts to be smoother, especially during cooler weather. Oddly, one of my reasons for the switch was not the heat problem, but rather that I drove very short distances so often. To me it was also cheap insurance.

Ross

rsay777 · May 2003

I have been caught twice with unrepairable punctures in the G-900's and on the first occasion I had to wait 5 days for a new tire to be shipped. No biggy on the first go round since the tires where 300 miles new. Second go round the tires were 10k used. I'm not sure at that time if I was out of tolerance enough to warrant needing to buy 4 new ones but I suppose I over reacted buy buying all new. Not sure what using the spare for a short time means though. Bob L

russski · May 2003

Paulusi,
Did you check your Fuse Box.
The Clock Fuse in my car MY03 Forester 2.5x in engine compartment

Vitaly

joseph50 · May 2003

I finally caught up with the article at the local Borders today. Good to see the Forester ruled the category, even though it strangely included some vehicles from the gonzo fringe of design.
I have never seen that purple livery in which the Forester was pictured. Also of note was that the car was credited for its bump dampening and noise suppression qualities - exactly what it has been roundly criticized for in other reviews. Go figure.
Cheers, everyone.

maureen23 · May 2003

I have a general question. I'm buying my first Forester and am not certain of the market right now. I can get an '03 XS Premium w/leather for $200 - $300 under invoice right now. But the '04's are right around the corner, right? So am I better off waiting? (I'm not interested in the turbo, so we're talking strictly model year purchase here.) Does anyone know what the market usually is or may be at the beginning of Subaru's model year? How long usually before incentives on the new models? Can I expect any better buy on the '03 than what it's at right now? What to do??

mckeown · May 2003

Guess I purchased more of these than I thought. Just rec'd an E-mail with the following text. If anyone is interested, feel free to use the discount.
I have one on my wife's 96 Caravan and 02 Forester. I can say I am pleased. Used them also in some neighbors.
PS...I am in no way connected to YM or any sales company, just trying to pass along a discount as the note reads "you and your friends"....

YM International Co., Authorized online retailer of Fumoto
Engine Oil Drain Valve, wishes to provide you and your friends
with a SPECAIL 15% DISCOUNT OFFER to thank you for supporting
our business.

Using SVC4 as a discount code, you and your friends will get
15% OFF when ordering at our online store: www.fumotovalve.com
This Special Offer is for limited time only. *Expiration: 07/31/03

Thank you for your business and happy oil changing!

Best regards,

www.fumotovalve.com/

ducktapeguy · May 2003

I just bought one yesterday. I've been searching all over for the past couple of months for a discount code and couldn't find one. I just installed it today, seems to be okay. One thing I don't like is that I had to buy a couple of copper crush washers to put on the valve so that it pointed upward. Just using the standard gasket caused the valve to point down at the ground. I also ground a bit off the threads to allow all of the oil to drain completely.

entropy5527 · May 2003

The clock in my 1998 & 2000 Foresters went out a few months back. I took them apart and could not find the problem component. I purchased a new ones for $48.00 online. The Part number is #85201FC000 if you need one. I would check the fuse first, but I have two Foresters and both have had the clock die. Sometimes you can tap on the upper right corner of the clock and it will work for a while, but after a time even this will stop fixing it.

ateixeira · May 2003

Sorry, I've never changed a car mirror. Anyone?

By the way, the stock auto trannies have been very robust. They've been reliable even with 300hp hopped-up WRXs.

$25,700 MSRP? Hope so, that'll be quite affordable once you negotiate. I figured $26-28k.

paul: first clock failure on a Forester that I've heard of. If you feel up to it, the bearings should not be that tough to do. Order parts via a wholesaler. You're Down Under so it would be hard to guess at prices.

joseph: overall noise levels in the Forester have always been low. C&D measures them and in both comparisons the Forester was in, it recorded the lowest noise levels.

Maureen: the 04s will come next month, so I kind of doubt prices will get any lower. At least not significantly lower. If you are price shopping, I'd buy now.

Just returned Bob's trailer, after using it for a few days. I did a round trip from his house, plus two round trips to the mulch yard, just over 100 miles overall.

Since we has just talked about it, I decided to get gas just before and then right after using the trailer. In fact the trailer was on there the entire time, minus the trip to the closest gas station.

Well, the mileage penalty was more than I thought - I got 17.3mpg, my worst ever by far. My previous worst was 20.3 mpg, and that was the week at the Outer Banks, when I spent most of the time on the sand.

It was raining, and they really did fill it up to the brim (I'm guessing 4 yards of wood chips per trip), and I guess I should be happy because that's what most models do without a trailer behind it! ;-)

-juice

forestergump · May 2003

I recently had to have the knock sensor replaced in my '99 Forester, and noticed that my gas mileage has gotten a little worse. Does anyone know if the dealer would have had to re-boot the computer when replacing the part? That hopefully would explain the drop in mileage. Thanks.
-Bob

ateixeira · May 2003

If they reset the ECU, it'll run rich until the ECU leans the fuel out. I bet they did. The ECU adjusts the spark timing according to inputs from the knock sensor (as well as other inputs), so it would make sense to start over.

Your first tank will record very poor mileage, the 2nd a little worse than normal, and by the 3rd it should be back to normal.

-juice

forestergump · May 2003

Thanks juice. Yep, I called the dealer this morning to find out if they did reset the ECU, and they did. What I found troubling was that I then told them I was curious about it because I noticed that my mileage had gotten poor, and that I had heard that if the ECU gets reset, mileage will tend to drop temporarily until the ECU re-adjusts. I asked the service rep how long they estimated it would take for the adjustments to finish, and the technician said to bring the vehicle in for them to look at, because the drop in mileage shouldn't happen. This after he just told me that "of course they had to reset all the ECU controls to replace the knock sensor."

Sheesh! It's getting so I really dread having to place my vehicle into the hands of people like this, even for the most trivial things.
-Bob

labgirl · May 2003

Im' the happy owner of a XS WLTR RED 2003 Forester. Picked it up last week and have been very happy so far. I'm wondering about the back - should I get one of the bins to save the carpet back there? Does anyone have one of those nifty heater/cooler things? Are they worthwhile? Any other suggested accessories?

ateixeira · May 2003

Congrats Sharon! :-)

The cargo liner used to be standard, I strongly recommend one. Mine has taken a beating, but the carpet below is perfect. I tend to prefer the net over the bins, personally.

My wife's Legacy did not come with one, so the liner was the first accessory I installed for her, the net came next.

-juice

ducktapeguy · May 2003

definitely get the cargo liner if you're planning on carrying anything in the back. it's saved the back carpet many, many, times against spills and other stuff. And I prefer the net over the bins too, but if you carry a lot of small items, then maybe the bins might be useful.

Haven't tried the cooler/warmer things, I was looking at getting one from target, but they're too small to really be useful for me.

ateixeira · May 2003

They are made by Igloo, I think you'll find better prices from places like Wal Mart.

-juice

mckeown · May 2003

Target was selling the same as the Subaru Cooler a month ago on sale for $27. Also don't know what a New cargo mat cost, but there is currntly a New one on EBAY with a Close Bid date of May 25th.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item- =2416002824&category=33697

kens · May 2003

Fumotovalve: Thanks for sharing that discount. I'd consider getting one, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth it at this point in my Forester ownership. Do they work in the XTs also? ;-)

Knock sensor: Yes, milage does drop after an ECU reset, but I've found that it returns to normal after 1-2 tanks.

Cargo liner: A great investment. My cargo interior looks great after 5 years thanks to the liner. The cooler unit is okay, but you need to remember that it works only while the power is on.

Ken

ballistic · May 2003

After studying Forester options, I wonder what they mean by "Security system UPGRADE" - is there a standard-equip security system and this option somehow "upgrades" the standard one, or is there NO standard security system, and you must add this "upgrade" to get one? Also, for anyone who bought the upgrade, how good is this particular security system?

Does anyone have comments on whether the air filtration option is worthwhile?

Am I the only person who thinks the hard unpadded lid of the "armrest extension" is unfriendly? Anybody know of a padded alternative available anywhere?

Has anyone with a 2003 Forester replaced the U.S. D.O.T. headlight shells (lens & reflector) with the probably-much-better European Forester shells?

-Jack, who'll probably buy an XT soon

ateixeira · May 2003

FWIW, that cargo mat is shaped slightly different than for the 1998-2002 models.

Ken: don't all Subies use a 17mm drain plug? I bet it's pretty much universal on Subies. I was more concerned about the residual oil left in the pan.

Jack: I have the air filtration, but I also have asthma. My filters were not that dirty after one year, but I've seen some that were absolutely filthy. Does your interior tend to get dusty?

If you think the armrest extension is bad, try the door arm rests on the early models, those were rock hard. Now those are padded. The center one isn't nearly as bad.

I have E-codes on my Miata, that's the euro pattern you're talking about. They put more light on the road, less elsewhere. My concern would be to buy from a supplier in a LHD country (i.e. not the UK), so the light beam is in the right direction.

-juice

cellmates · May 2003

FYI--

Just got my '01 Forester L back from the dealer for a new Clutch, Pressure Plate, and Flywheel all covered under warranty ($831 was the bill the dealer submitted). Been great so far.

Complained about the clutch shudder problem to the service mgr starting at 3000 miles (car at 20,000 miles now). Service mgr kept saying "can't duplicate - don't worry it won't hurt your car". When I set up my latest oil change I brought it up again and mentioned that I have been reading about clutch shudder on the Internet and I can't believe that other owners have not seen the problem at the dealership. To which the service mgr replied "I have never heard of the problem on the Forester - you say you read about it on the Internet? I'd be interested in seeing that." That's all I needed to hear - I printed out about 30 pages of the choice postings on the problem including a print-out from a CA company that sells a "Subaru Clutch Fix Kit". I delivered the printouts when I dropped off my car for the oil change and when I came back to pick it up the next day the service mgr said "Subaru has a service bulletin on your clutch problem and I ordered the parts - when can you bring it in again?". When I picked it up for the clutch work I was very suprised that the work included the flywheel.

I don't know if the printouts from the Internet helped or not, but it sure seemed like they did.

cellmates

kens · May 2003

Jack,

The security system upgrade on my 98 Forester added the alarm horn and motion sensor to the pre-existing keyless remote. Subaru outsources their alarm units. Mine is made by Alpine. It's a basic unit, but does it job well enough for my area.

Air filtration is worthwhile. I'm always amazed how dirty the filter is when I replace it yearly. I'm not sure about the latest Forester, but for my 98 it was a simple DIY installation. I saved $$ by buying the filter kit and installing it myself.

I'm sure it's possible to swap in e-code lights into the Forester -- it's just a matter of getting a hold of the assembly. FYI, the beam pattern on my 98 Forester is very good for a DOT headlight. The cutoffs are very sharp leading me to believe that Subaru might just have used a universal headlight for their models. Using a Philips Vision Plus bulb made the cut off even sharper.

I'd try out the MY04 headlights before changing them out.

Ken

ballistic · May 2003

I plan to buy my first Subaru soon and saw the following message awhile ago:
"I have a 2003 XS2.5 which I drive about 7,000 miles per year. I will, in the course of each 12 months, accumulate $500.00 in Subaru bucks. When I have enough would I be better off buying an extended warranty with them, or would it be better to just save them to use towards the repairs, servicing and parts replacements that are part of the regular expense of owning a car?"

What are Subaru Bucks, how do you get them, how many do you get, and so forth?

ballistic · May 2003

"Jack: I have the air filtration, but I also have asthma. My filters were not that dirty after one year, but I've seen some that were absolutely filthy. Does your interior tend to get dusty?"

Hold on while I ask my surgeon... Nope, he says my interior is whistle-clean. My car's a mess, though, so maybe I'll order the kit.

-Jack, whose sense of humor is abysmal.

taft4 · May 2003

Got a mailing from my Subaru dealer today offering to sell Foresters at $600.00 under invoice, Bajas $1600 under, Legacys at $1100 under and Imprezas at $850 under. Its a limited time offer, but they also said they have special pricing on all 2004 models. I live in the Chicago metro area.

My car is only 7 months old so I have no interest in the offer.

dcm61 · May 2003

They are earned via a Subaru MasterCard issued by Chase. You earn 3% in Subaru Bucks on your purchases. There's a maximum of $500 Subaru Bucks per year; they are good for 4 years. Click on the link in the lower left at http://www.subaru.com for more details.

DaveM

subearu · May 2003

Where about are you located? I'm in SE Wisconsin and am close enough to Liberty Auto City in Libertyville. Was just wondering if it was them or someone else in driving distance.

-Brian

skooterpie · May 2003

Hey all,
Went to my local Pep Boys today to pick up some Mobil 1 10w/30 and they don't seem to have the stuff I've been using for the past two years. Apparently they have a Mobil 10w/30 synthetic "Blend". The girl at the register didn't seem to know.
They still stock 5w/30 and the other viscosities in true Mobil 1 form.
Anyone know something about Mobil 1 they care to share?
Thanks,
/Scott

lakepop · May 2003

This was provided over in NASIOC ....useful and I assume valid since its from a Suby dealer.

www.cars101.com

subearu · May 2003

XT premium = $28k MSRP, $25.6k invoice. Me likey!

-Brian

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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