Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

lark6 · May 2003

I've done one, in the dark and on snow- and ice-covered rural roads. Both the navvie and I were rookies. About 5 hours drive time. Finished 35th of 41.

Ed

ateixeira · May 2003

Sounds like fun. Maybe when the Forester isn't the vehicle I rely on primarily.

-juice

paisan · May 2003

They aren't real hard on the cars at all. The average speed is set to below the posted limit so sometimes you have to control the urge to just go flat-out or else you'll be too early!

Of course if you miss a turn, you are now behind schedule and need to make up time.

-mike

gened1 · May 2003

I do not have the inside air filter on my '02 Forester. The clips and cover assembly are there however. Would all I need to do is purchase the air filter and install it or am I missing something that I wouod have to buy as a kit?
Thanks for your advice.
Gene

ateixeira · May 2003

Keeping in mind that mine is a little different, I got a kit with a filter and a metal plate with a rubber gasket to seal it in place. I had to cut out a plastic piece.

Sounds like it's different now, you might need only the filter.

-juice

ducktapeguy · May 2003

The rallies aren't that hard on the car, IF you don't take it too far. The forester is my only vehicle, so I dont' try and push it too hard. Although, I think on every rally there's at least one person that does go off the road with some damage. Sometimes it's serious, most times it's not. Even though you're technically able to complete the whole rally without going over the posted speed limit, it's not just like a sunday drive. All I remember is hitting top speed on my forester, and watching a line of cars pass me going at least 30-40 mph faster. Also, some rallies are more organized than others, that can make a big difference in the amount of fun you have.

Gened
I think it should be similar to this.
http://4ester.net/Forester_Technical/Forester_TechDis4.htm
On the new ones, I think the only thing you really have to do is put the filter in, everything else is already there.

leo2633 · May 2003

Gene,

I have a 2001 Forester that I added the interior air filter to. You just pop off the two metal clips and lower the plate (and rubber gasket). Insert the TWO filters (they both come in the box and they fit together) into the opening, put the cover and gasket in place and fasten the two clips. Reading the instructions and looking it over took me twice as long as installing the filter. I replaced mine after about 15 months, and it was pretty dirty. It's amazing how much crap would be getting into the car without it.

I hope this helps.

Len

nygreg · May 2003

I tend to ride around a lot with my windows at least partly open. And, every time you enter and exit the car, you expose the interior to all the junk which gets caught in the fabric etc. How many times do you have to wipe down your dash, especially now with the pollen? Does everyone see a difference utilizing the air filter?? If you do, maybe I should order them for my OB.

Greg

sphil907 · May 2003

I just bought 03 X model. Automatic. I understand the rear differential is NOT limited slip. Does the front differential work in connection with the ABS and in effect have a traction control built in?
If not, then if my Forester is pointed up hill and both the right front and right rear wheels are sitting on glare ice and the left wheels are on dry pavement, would it be correct that the right wheels would spin and the car would not move despite having "Active All Wheel Drive"?

gened1 · May 2003

Thanks for the information. I checked with Liberty Subaru and they have the filter for $29.96. I would think shipping would be extra. I'll order one next week.

kens · May 2003

Stephen,

"Active All Wheel Drive" is Subaru's brand name for their AWD system found in the automatic transmissions (except for the WRX, VDC Wagon and Legacy GT). This system uses an electronically controlled clutch pack that "actively" changes the torque split between the front and rear axles (not each wheel) based on driving conditions. These driving conditions can be what gear you're in, your throttle position as well as ABS.

The situation you described would indeed result in the right front and rear tires spinning without any forward motion. The AWD system, as far as it is concerned, is not sensing any problem since both the front and rear axles are spinning at the same rate.

The same applies for the 5-speed manuals that use a viscous coupling. It too only manages torque split between the two axles and not each wheel individually.

Some models use a rear limited slip differential to give extra traction in situations you mentioned and also in high performance driving where you one would be cornering at the limit of traction. The LSD helps to then sort out any differences between the left and right rear wheels. In this case, you would theoretically only get stuck if both rear tires and one of the fronts were on zero traction.

The only Subaru model that can manage torque to a specific wheel is the Outback VDC (and the WRX STi in a more passive manner). This model uses a slightly different AWD system coupled with a traction control system. Together they can direct torque to and away from any individual wheel.

So why doesn't Subaru just simply overlay a traction control circuit over all their vehicles? I think the answer is cost. The challenge with getting power to an individual wheel is that an active AWD system, for lack of a better term, (differentials, clutch packs, viscous couplings) and a traction control based AWD system work against each other.

If a wheel was spinning independently, traction control would try to slow it by applying brakes to that wheel. However, an AWD system needs that initial "slip" to get it to direct torque away from that axle.

The VDC system uses some complex electronics to manage the entire interaction between AWD and traction control. Other companies like Mercedez Benz use all open differentials (ie. no active way to split torque) and rely on pure traction control. The pros to a traction control system is that it's simple and adds virtually no weight. The biggest downside is that in some situations you can loose quite a bit of forward momentum since the system relies on braking.

Ken

orangelebaron · May 2003

I already posted this link in "Future turbo Forester." I know they don't like multiple posting but this will get more exposure. There are REALLY COOL versions of the Forester in Japan called "Back Pack" and "Cross Sports" They should bring the "Back Pack" here. It has two tone water repellant seats in red or blue and a durable cargo area. The funny thing is that the website is in English and shows California plates!
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/index.html

jlawton2 · May 2003

I want one of those! We chose Subarus for their utility but somehow we've gone and turned into stylemongers, and I'm afraid my wife's turning into a gearhead. Well she did once change out a ruptured heater hose on her 1975 Maverick in the middle of I-10 on a 100 degree Sunday afternoon.

We were just discussing the other day why the interiors on the Foresters are so BEIGE (or grey! It's like you got a great apartment but you can only have it if you agree to take the big paisley sofa that came with it. Makes you feel so middle-aged.....My wife's trying to cover as much of it up as possible with floormats and seatcovers.

JL

subewannabe · May 2003

way cool and way useful....my labrador is in the back end of my car several times a week and usually is wet and muddy on the return trip from finding every creek along the trail. my '94 Explorer now has 140K miles, so i dont worry about it, but the carpet soaks up the wet dog smell.

kullenberg · May 2003

Does anyone know what colors the XT will be offered in? I seem to recall that they would be limited to white, silver, gold and black; and all have a black interior. That "other" pricing service has the prices up, but they state the colors have not been updated. How about an XT posting, Edmunds?
Cheers
Pat

subearu · May 2003

Most of the regulars on the Subaru Crew boards are guessing that it'll get the same color options as the XS, but they could limit it further.

No one is writing up the XT, not Automobile mag, C&D, or Edmunds. And it's supposed to be in the dealers in a few weeks? I'm beginning to like the lack of attention though - just think of what a sleeper the XT is going to be!

I'll likely be getting mine in black w/ the mega moonroof!

-Brian

kullenberg · May 2003

I agree about the sleeper. My dealer has already said he let me have one for $1k under MSRP. Since I'm not buying for a year, so I expect I'll be able to get it for considerably less. I just negotiated an Outback for my mother at $100 under invoice. While that's not huge, the dealer here is very good - honest service, and loaners! And the negotiation process is very low key; I deal with the sales mgr, so there is no salesperson foolishness, although the sales people are pretty straight forward. Mountain people, here in NC tend to be that way. I think I will go with either red, silver or perhaps gold. To get the leather, I guess you have to take the sunroof, For me all it does is eat up headroom!
Cheers
Pat

tidester · May 2003

How about an XT posting?

Obviously we don't have a review yet. Read what was said in the Future Vehicles section.

I wasn't aware that official prices had been released yet but I am sure our editors are on it!

tidester, host

subearu · May 2003

I guess most of us are just surprised no one has done a pre-drive on it or something. Usually somebody has a testdrive writeup before the vehicle hits the dealers. I guess we're just anxious! ;-)

There's plenty of talk about XT pricing in the Subaru Crew discussions, as well as Nasioc(aka nabisco, lol) and SubDriven. Nothing on XT pricing over at media.suburu.com yet though.

-Brian

subearu · May 2003

From the PR Newswire website: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/05-23-2003/0001953067&EDATE=

If that link doesn't work, just do a search on Subaru there and the XT link should be the most recent link (5/23).

-Brian

tidester · May 2003

I guess most of us are just surprised no one has done a pre-drive on it or something.

Well, me too but let's TRY to be patient!

tidester, host

ballistic · May 2003

"Does anyone know what colors the XT will be offered in? I seem to recall that they would be limited to white, silver, gold and black; and all have a black interior. That "other" pricing service has the prices up, but they state the colors have not been updated. How about an XT posting, Edmunds?"

You're correct about the interior: black only. There is one more exterior color - the same metallic red available on '03 Foresters.

I really wish there was a metallic charcoal grey, but I ordered my XT in silver.

The Edmunds site says there will be a First-Drive report on the '04 XT in June. Let's hope that's EARLY June!

- jack

ballistic · May 2003

"To get the leather, I guess you have to take the sunroof, For me all it does is eat up headroom!
Cheers, Pat "

That's true, but that's not what kept me from ordering leather and sunroof on my XT. To get them, you have to sacrifice the 5-speed and order the automatic. Ridiculous. Completely brain-dead configuration decision, SOA!

ballistic · May 2003

"I wasn't aware that official prices had been released yet but I am sure our editors are on it!
tidester, host "

Official XT pricing has been out for about two weeks. First place I saw it was on the cars101.com website of a Seattle dealer, and I posted that link here two weeks ago. Including $550 destination charge, a base 5-speed XT is $23,323 invoice and $25,520 MSRP. Adding two popular groups and a boost gauge, mine will be just under $24K delivered.

tidester · May 2003

Thanks and congratulations!

tidester, host

sphil907 · May 2003

I did not buy the filter with my new Forester and having second thoughts. Is the infrastructure already there to hold it in place? Or do I have to buy something more than just a "replacement" filter?

sphil907 · May 2003

Thanks, kens, for the excellent description. I wish I had the LSD, but did not want to pay for everything else that comes with the XS. I wish there were more flexibility in options. So, in theory, my FWD VW Eurovan with it's traction control system just might, in limited circumstances, be able to move where my AWD subaru would become stuck. That irks me, but I guess it is just theoretical and would not apply to most real world driving conditions.

jason_els · May 2003

You can get an OEM LSD for the rear and aftermarket ones for the front (IF you have the manual tranny). There's really nothing preventing it and the cost of them plus the installation will still be less than if you ordered the XS.

lfdal · May 2003

As far as I know, everything's there - all you have to do is ante up the $30+ for the filter. It takes about a half hour to install yourself as there is some time to R&R the glove compartment.

Well worth doing based upon how filthy mine was at 7500 miles. Lots of stuff I'd rather not breathe in.

HTH - Larry

psfod3 · June 2003

I would like to have a hitch put on my 03 Forester x. just to put a bike carrier on. All the dealers want $238 for the hitch and between $80 an $140 to install it depending on the dealer. I have called two different truck accessory shops and each wanted just $200 for the hitch and installation complete as long as they dont have to wire anything. Of course their hitch is not from Subaru but from a hitch comany. Does anyone know whether they have to just bolt on the hitch or do they have to remove any exhaust or emisions parts before they can do this. As they work on trucks alot is there anything particularly different about putting a hitch on a Forester. If they do it I will save $150 over the Subaru dealer cost.

ballistic · June 2003

psfod3 wrote: "All the dealers want $238 for the hitch and between $80 an $140 to install it depending on the dealer. I have called two different truck accessory shops and each wanted just $200 for the hitch and installation complete. Does anyone know whether they have to just bolt on the hitch or do they have to remove any exhaust or emisions parts before they can do this."

My opinion: The Subaru dealer-installed hitch is grossly overpriced. If you search the 'net for something like "Forester hitch" you'll find lots of well-known companies like Draw-Tite that have been making frame-mount hitches for decades. You'll be able to buy a hitch made to exactly fit your Forester for around $100-125. They require no drilling and bolt up to existing holes, exactly as the Subaru hitch does. The muffler hangar and fuel vapor collection unit get unbolted, then they (and the hitch) bolt onto the same mounts. You could probably install it yourself in an hour, or two at most, with nothing but a socket wrench. This is what I plan to do with my '04 XT when it arrives.

ateixeira · June 2003

Hilarious duck, that's *me* in those photos. My Husky tool, my hand, my Forester and filter installation. I still have the original pics (in higher resolution).

I don't mind sharing, it's nice that it's being hosted somewhere, actually.

On that hitch, the only tricky part was the fuel vapor canister. Just pay attention to how it's connected and make sure you don't end up with loose hoses.

Oh, and get a long-shaft torque wrench.

-juice

subewannabe · June 2003

the subaru canada web site suggests that XT will also be available in subaru green,blue and . gold..in addition to black, silver , white and red. the dark grey or black interior is it.

i agree that the tow hitch is way overpriced. ill go aftermarket.

i have joined the IMBA, celebrated by riding trails all weekend, and my subaru VIP dealer invoice + 0 privilege ought to be just about right come december, when the new intro chaos should have died down a bit and selection should be better.

mark

rsay777 · June 2003

the manual shows removing bolt #1 on the drivers side of the canister and then opening the 3 springs. I've done this and now the rear of the housing hits the firewall at the rear and an AC tube at the top. I can't seem to get it open enough to get the filter out. Any advice is appreciated. Bob L

ducktapeguy · June 2003

I think the 03 should be the same as the previous models, it's a little tough the first time, but you don't have to undo anything else besides the 1 bolt on the drivers side. Try pulling the top of the filter box away, then pull up a little to unhook the bottom of the fiter box. Sometimes its easier to disconnect the air inlet by pulling it hard. Once you do it a few times, and see how it's done, it's pretty easy. The first time I did it I couldn't figure out how to get the filter back in. Just remember to make sure the two "hook" on the bottom of the filter housing is hooked into the box or it won't close completley

lfdal · June 2003

I changed mine over the weekend. There was no way I could get the back of the case separated enough to remove the filter, much less clean out the inside of the case without bending / flexing the A/C line that runs behind the air cleaner housing - a lot. I tried moving the case left, right, up, down, turning, twisting, etc, etc.

It was easier to snap the parts back together, remove the front bolt, electrical connector, two hoses (didn't even need pliers for the clamps) and loosen the hose clamp at the intake manifold(a socket, 5/16 I think, worked great).

In fact it took me longer to type this than it did to actually do it. Then you can open the case, clean it out and reassemble it with the new filter. Then just drop in the whole assembly. Very quick and easy.

I haven't checked my wife's 03 Outback to see if its as tight to work on.

Larry

gened1 · June 2003

I ordered the filter yesterday (Monday) from Liberty Subaru and received it today (Tuesday.)
Now thats fast delivery!!
Went out took off the two clamps dropped down the hinged door put the filters up into the box closed it up and I'm good to go!!
Seems like the 02 is less work than the 03.
Thanks everyone for the information.
Gene

ducktapeguy · June 2003

That seems strange that your air filter is hard to remove. I looked at the 03, and the insides look identical to mine, and I don't have any trouble removing it. When I undo the clips and the bolt, I pull the top of the filter box back about an inch, pull up on the drivers side so it rotates about the intake elbow, then I can usually pull it off and take out my filter and clean it out. Takes less than a minute on mine, and that includes finding the ratchet to remove the bolt. Maybe they changed something slightly that makes it harder on yours.

Wait, I just thought of something. Are you trying to remove the filter without removing the back of the box? Maybe that's why, you can't open enough to get to the filter without taking the back off, you have to remove it first. Just pull the back of the filter box out (rotating about the intake elbow like I mentioned) and you should be able to get to it no problem.

mojavemax · June 2003

Greetings All,
I realize all the hoopla is over the new '04 Forester XT (and rightly so!) but has anybody seen what, if anything, the 'O4 X (base) adds to the '03 X version (eg, better armrest, limited-slip, etc)?

getting itchy...

rsay777 · June 2003

Thanks Ductapeguy.

Have you been inside the ducting upstream of the air filter housing. Any reason to clean in there when the need arises? Bob L

kens · June 2003

mojavemax:

It doesn't look like there were too many changes to the 04 over the 03:

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2004.html

Other than the intro of the XT, it looks like the X gets cloth visors instead of vinyl, all models get collapsible pedals and the XS loses it's cassette player. Also prices increased by $50.

Ken

ballistic · June 2003

"mojavemax asks: "Greetings All,
I realize all the hoopla is over the new '04 Forester XT (and rightly so!) but has anybody seen what, if anything, the 'O4 X (base) adds to the '03 X version (eg, better armrest, limited-slip, etc)? getting itchy... "

No change, according to what I've seen. And only a $50 price increase. You'd probably be better of getting a steal of a deal on a 2003 X. Portland-area dealers are advertising them in the low $17K region. Haven't seen anything in the $16's yet, but who knows?

dmcbud · June 2003

Wondering if anyone has details on current Suburu cashback promo's on 2003's. I heard a radio spot in Boston yesterday that seemed to indicate incentives through 6/30 on all models except Baja Sport. Believe it was $750 for all Foresters & Imprezas. Nothing mentioned in Edmunds Incentives or on Suburu site. On Foresters, previous cashbacks were restricted to X's only, but I think these incentives are on all models.

I've been considering an XS premium, but have been dragging my feet waiting to check out the XT. Local dealer seems to think that the new model will be in soon - hoping I might still be able to deal for a 2003 if I can't justify price-hike on XT. Thanks alot.

lfdal · June 2003

I did try getting the filter out just by separating the case the first time. Then I re-seated the filter in the back and tried again. Still couldn't get it. There's one A/C line on mine that I wonder about. I would think they'd all be the same but the line is right behind the back of the air filter box to the point where I can't get that inch you mentioned to move the top back to swivel it. Its not going to swivel anywhere. I put all the pressure on it I thought prudent. Although I'll bet the shop would have gotten it out that way.

At that point I came up with plan B.

Put it down to a minor manufacturing difference?

Larry

tazereli · June 2003

hey guys,

My wife and I will be getting a 2001 Forester next spring from my wife's parents. They are moving to Florida and are taking only one car. Are there any potential problems that I should know about with the forester? My in-laws arent the best at scheduled maintenance but they do manage to change the oil and rotate the tires at least twice a year. The car had a low number of miles on it (18000) the last time i saw it. It is their second car driven mostly by my father in law who is retired. I dont anticipate more than 25000 miles before it is given to us. I can't wait until i can drive it as our own being a big fan of subies and the previous owner of 2 of them. Any help would be greatly appreciated

thanks in advance,

Kyle

jbkovach · June 2003

Does anyone have a 03 Forester XS Premium w/ the following options; Hood deflector, Rear window dust deflector, Moonroof air deflector.

I think I'm going to look into a 04 Forester XT Premium - silver, but was wondering if some of the options would cheapen the look of the vehicle more than they protect it, or server their intended purpose. I'd like to get something to protect the windshield and front of the vehicle from stone chips since most of the roads around here are in pretty bad shape, and the Moonroof air deflector may be of some use in keeping wind noise down on the highway. I haven't seen pictures of any Foresters with these options installed. Are they not worth installing, or do they work and no one likes their looks? Any information on the usefulness of these or some of the other options would be greatly appreciated. From some of the other posts, I already see that the cabin filter is worth looking into.

Thanks

subearu · June 2003

for the hood is available for the XT, since the functional hood scoop needs the air that the hood deflector would disrupt.

You could try a product by 3M (?) that basically is a very clear piece of plastic (or something high tech) and apply it to the first couple inches of the hood edge. I'd probably look into something like that when I get our XT at the end of the year or so.

-Brian

leo2633 · June 2003

In my opinion, the rear dust deflector looks sharp, as does the moonroof deflector. I don't care for the looks of the hood deflector, though. My wife has the rear deflector on her '03 Outback, and the rear window doesn't seem to get as dirty as my '01 Forester, which doesn't have it. I can't really say if it works as intended or not, because it's comparing apples and oranges.

Len

p0926 · June 2003

Yep, 3M makes a paint protection film (Clear Shield) that's applied (much like window tint) to the leading edges of your car. Form what I've read, it does an excellent job of preventing paint chips and it negates the need for a bra or hood deflector. Of course the draw back is that is costs a couple of hundred dollars. I'm seriously considering getting it applied when I get my new Forester XT :-)

-Frank P.

jbkovach · June 2003

It not being an available option on the XT makes sense. I was wondering that. I assume if I wanted to protect the hood and didn't want to take away from the functionality of the hood scoop, I could go with the Front End Cover (bra)? It looks like it's got a break in the center w/ two risers on either side of where the scoop would be receiving it's airflow. How do these hold up? Is there a lot of maintenance keeping them from breaking down in the elements?

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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