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Comments
Craig
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
That's funny you bring up Mazda mufflers because our exhaust went out on the 626 we dumped.
-juice
The muffler on my '79 RX-7 lasted beyond 100,000 miles. Then I replaced it with an aftermarket item, which was still in fine shape when I sold the car at 200,000 miles. Can't ask for more.
-juice
-Steven-
Someone had asked about cost for 30,000 mile service; was just over $325 at Quirk's in Bangor, ME.
In all honesty, I probably could have gotten it done for less as I know that this dealership recommends servicing things at earlier intervals that the Subaru manual. But as I'm 185 miles one-way from them, (AND SOMEONE POSTING HERE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT BEING 35 MILES AWAY FROM A DEALERSHIP!!!) I figured let's do it all to their satisfaction while still under warranty, then I'll make choices after the warranty is gone based on Subaru specs.
Len
Give me a coil pack any day over the problem of getting the dwell, advance, and point gap dialed in.
John
I made a major boo-boo and I need to hear it's not all that bad: I didn't rotate my tires at 7.5K. I'm planning to do it in a month or so when I take my '03 XS AT into the dealership for its first "official" maintenance. I'm at 13.5K now and have been changing the oil every 3-4K. Do I have anything to worry about?
Didn't rotate your tires? Tsk tsk! The good news is that as long as they're still balanced, the front end is in alignment, and you've kept them inflated properly, you've probably not done any harm and they'll last just as long. The front tires will be slightly more worn but that will even out when you rotate them to the rear (in fact you might want to not rotate again for another 14k miles so they even out). Really the main advantage to rotating every 7.5k is to catch any problems early on before they can cause any serious wear to your tires. Or if you drive aggressively you'll wear down the fronts faster so you'll want to rotate them fairly frequently.
So the bottom line is that you're probably fine.
-Frank P.
Craig
This is real world, experiential take on specific problems with new cars, 1, 2, and 3 year old cars.
The Subaru rating among all car manufacturers has dropped from '99 to '03. It is now "below average".
So, without the flaming, what gives ? (And please, no "no one has ever complained before" approach.)
Remember before the flame, this is a survey of owners, not a technical eval by a magazine.
I'd like to hear from the SOA people on this.
Disclosure: 3 Subarus over the past 14 years. Now own a '01 Forester 5 spd with NO problems in almost 70K. I'm satisfied and ready to buy a second. BUT ?
My last question, sometimes I do need to travel on a hilly road not with steep slope to climb, will either of the model be capable to take the challenge? Or I need to look into the XT model?
Greatly appreciate for anyone input.
Sara
Get the chip repaired as quickly as you can. The thermal expansion/contraction of your windshield can cause the chip to grow into a nasty crack instantly.
Ken
79 DL.....Flawless...Never had a warrenty repair.
82 GL 4wd ....1 recall....No warrenty work either.
85 GL 4wd wagon..No warrenty work, but by far the worst, noisest, rusted in 3 years, cam and carb problems..all out of warrenty.
90 Legacy LS...Best I've ever owned..No warrenty work..very few problems, over 350K when totaled.
02 Forester....13 (yes 13) warrenty repairs, From clutch to 7 oxygen sensors. Still awaiting the coolant sealer letter. Currently 53K with a bad case of piston slap which Subaru HAS acknowledged, but refuses to repair as it causes no internal damage so they say.
FYI....I subscribe to Consumer reports so YES, I do fill out that survey each year. Disappointed, but with my previous Subaru loyality, I will probably buy another. (my $.02.....as Eyeore says "Thanks for Listening")
The 03 Forester XS - day/night mirror, grab handle on drivers side above door was loose.
The 04 Forester XT - 1 noise trip (fixed myself after dealer visit), no other trips that weren't dealer option installation (turbo gauge) induced (so I won't count those 3 trips)
Summary so far - no better (or worse) than my years of owning Mercury Sables. Don't worry folks, I've belabored that point before and won't go there again :<).
My 0.02
Larry
First off, while they listed 1 year old Subies below the industry average, the actually number was actually exactly average, spot-on.
The older models, 3 years I think, improved to better than average.
The oldest models in the survey, 5 years IIRC, were excellent, beating even Honda.
I'm not sure how you can conclude Subarus are below average from reading that data. I sure don't.
I look at it this way. Baja dragged down the average for the brand, but it still met the industry average. Subarus tend to show their problems up front while UNDER WARRANTY and at no cost to you. At 5 years, when the powertrain warranty finally expires, they are more reliable than Hondas.
Phenomenal scores. I honestly don't see how you can read it negatively.
-juice
"02 Forester....13 (yes 13) warranty repairs, From clutch to 7 oxygen sensors. Still awaiting the coolant sealer letter. "
Man, I'm only on my third oxygen sensor in 2 years on my Forester! So I'll have to have more replaced over the next 4 or 5 years before I reach my limit?
I've been somewhat disappointed with my 2002 Forester. Have had oxy. sensor problems, had to have the computer "flashed", some loose interior trim, clutch chatter (never diagnosed while at dealer), problem with CD player (again, never while at dealer), and initial problem with alignment.
What makes me really angry though is the fact that I really like the car!! I just don't like having to put up with the problems it's had. It's not likely I'll buy another Subaru. The main reason though is because of the distance to the dealership; 185 miles one-way. I don't want to ever again have to deal with taking time off from work to spend all day in the car just to have something fixed.
Course that limits me to local dealerships; Detroit's big 3, Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan.
That's exactly the point. Older Subaru models (and engines) have fewer problems than the new ones.
"Subarus tend to show their problems up front while UNDER WARRANTY and at no cost to you."
Thats a FORD consumer attitude. Ask a Subaru "loyalist" how they feel when they have to take their Subaru back to the dealer for a warranty repair.
There are bad apples in every batch, but get a big enough sample and Subies tend to be better than average.
FWIW, in JD Power's Durability study, 5 year old models averaged 2.7 problems per car. So if you had about 2-3 problems, that's average. If you had 7 problems, well then there is one owner with a trouble-free car to average it out.
joybell: I respectfully disagree. I'm not far from my dealer, but I don't mind visiting once in a while. And again, Subaru is average at first, not below.
If JD Power's numbers are right, remember, it's 2.7 problems, that could mean 5-6 visits to the dealer to fix all those problems, who knows?
Keep in mind the people with problems are much more likely to go out of their way to complain. How many people chime in saying "no problem here"?
-juice
In fact I doubt there is such a thing as a zero-defect car. Owners may just be overlooking certain quirks.
Bear with me, I do have a point.
Look at the BMW X5. They had 14 recalls in the first 12 months. Ouch.
But then look at JD Power's APEAL study, it won! Customers love them any way, despite 14 dealer visits in 12 months, mandatory, minimum!
So IMHO that demonstrates that a BMW loyalist can own a vehicle with *horrific*, record breaking quality control yet feel pretty darn good about it! #1 in class, actually.
-juice
PS The BMW X5 is *not* an exception. VW New Beetle also has terrible reliability yet it won JD Power's APEAL study for its class also
Check the 2nd article on this link:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7041&sid=17- -3&n=156
And don't forget how Toyota treated its Sludge Customers, all 3.3 million of them.
-juice
Oh well, I do enjoy visits to the dealer, chatting with other Subie owners, looking at the shiney new models....and driving my Subaru I always feel a little smarter than those who don't drive a Subaru. But, IMHO, "average" is pretty bad....for a Subaru, and I do feel a little betrayed because my Forester did not come out of the factory "perfect". But that's only because I have been spoiled.
It's all good, I think feedback and balanced, constructive criticism is necessary for continuous improvement.
Honestly, though, I think there is a certain type of customer that demands perfection and they'll just keep switching brands for the rest of their lives, never satisifed with what they get.
Forester has won several APEAL awards, and to me liking your ride is more important than needing 2.03 visits to the dealer vs. 1.75 visits for Brand X or 5.32 visits for Brand Y.
Also note that Forester was best in class per Polk in owner loyalty again for 2003 (they won in 2000 and 2001 also). When you consider Subaru has just 600 dealers often 180 miles away from some owners, that's impressive.
So either these are nice vehicles or we are crazy masochists. ;-)
-juice
You detected the pattern and then kill 3-4 birds with one stone! Hilarious.
I stand corrected!
-juice
PS Maybe it was a conspiracy by BMW to keep getting people back in to the dealerships?
There was rust on the fuel filler neck, at delivery. Already. So I pointed this out and they promised a free oil change, and they'd do it all when I hit 3k miles.
I took it in and they undercoated it instead, never even looked at the fuel filler neck. Then they presented a bill for the oil change!
Yikes, so they wanted me to pay after not fixing the original problem I complained about. After a lot of noise, I left with a free oil change and undercoating I didn't want.
And rust on the fuel filler neck.
To me, really, the key is the experience, seems like that dealer did everything to turn me away from being loyal.
Ford Credit was worse. I wanted to wait to sell my old car before I bought they new one, they convinced me to buy that day and just pay extra principal on the loan. Long story short, they didn't want to count that as principal payment, and I had to dig out the carbons for my check to prove I had written "FOR PRINCIPAL ONLY" on the check. Yet they still resisted honoring it. Took 45 days to sort out.
Seems like they try to milk the customer after the sale.
My Subie dealer has been better, still not perfect, but that's what Patti is for. At least we have a resource as Subie owners.
-juice
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=524812b7-62c7-489a-a- c94-d095881c9ccf
Hondas assembled in Ontario, Canada with transmissions built in Ohio, USA. Domestic vehicles, IMO. No recall on the CR-Vs made in Japan with the traditional 4 cylinder engine.
Our '02 Mazda MPV, zero problems in 2 years at 20k miles. 2 minor recall notices that have been unattended to, nothing that requires immediate attention.
John
-Frank P.
Craig
-Frank P.
I really think the warped rotor problem is a characteristic of the 00-04 Outback, more than individual driving style. My wife's Forester has been fine and she is a hard/late braker. My WRX has been fine, and I tend to drive that much harder than the other cars (by far). The Outback is probably the most casually driven of the bunch, but has recurring warped rotors. And it happened on our 00 (manual trans) and 02 (auto trans) so it's not related to engine braking.
Craig
That's true for every brand. You can thank your government for this privilege. I'd reset my ECU, thanks very much.
As for the rotors, I doubt the metal is any better or worse, but they are halting more weight. More weight means more heat.
Honda has always done small cars wonderfully. I think you could explain those tranny issues with the fact that they have less experience with bigger, heavier duty transmissions. Just like Nissan is having teething issues with the Armada, their first foray into full-size trucks.
-juice
I really want the moonroof, but not if it's going to whistle on a windy day or when I'm any where with a speed limit above 45! Does anyone else have experience with this?
-Frank P.
Thanks again for the help. I haven't bought a car in 13 years and this board, and contributors like you, made the process almost pleasant!
Now I'll go post about the deal I got on the pricing board...
-Frank P.
No comparison with Ford or BMW or Lexus is necessary.
The fact from customers is real and objective: problem with Subarus have increased in the past few years of ownership.
So, what gives Subaru of America ?
We who own your product care because of our experience. Talk with us. No fluff. No marketing stuff. Just the facts and what you are doing about it.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reviews.aspx?modelid=9606&t- rimid=-1&src=ratings&tab=4#rel
If there are any Montgomery County maryland forester owners there that know of a good body shop in the area. Please let me know. I got hit in a parking lot and have some fairly minor scratch/paint damage to my bumper. I want to get it repainted. I do not want to go to Fitzgerald's bodyshop as I don't trust the people at their service area. Any recommendations are appreciated.
Thanks
Ellen
Good point about JDP - they panned the Mini Cooper for cup holders, and the H2 for gas mileage. What does that even have to do with reliable transportation?
CR does mention the Baja as the reason for Subaru's drop overall.
Ellen: where do you live? There are a bunch of places in Kensington on Plyers Mill Rd. and on the other side of the train tracks, I forget the name of the street. Check it out and look for a place that has a seperate paint booth.
-juice
I live in Germantown, MD. I would love some names if you have any.
Thanks
Ellen
My 2 cents,
Owen
5 Subies in our family and none of them has ever even once let us down.
-juice