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...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
-Frank P. (yet another unabashedly proud Forester owner)
The positive aspects of the Explorer are:
it is bigger, has more comfort features (at least mine does), can tow more, has a low range, is better if you're carrying adults and need the extra room, has a larger cargo area, and is a bit quicker.
The negative aspects of the Explorer are:
It doesn't handle or ride very well, is a gas gussler, has been saddled with recalls, and it's not a whole lot of fun to drive.
The positive aspects of the Forester are:
It's very nimble and fun to drive, has good performance and good gas mileage, has a very sophisticated AWD, content level is high, and is very reliable.
The negative aspects of the Forester are:
It's a bit on the small side, especially the rear seating area.
What are your concerns? And... you never heard of the Forester till yesterday?? Wow.
Bob
Ken
I'll e-mail you my address, though it hasn't changed.
-juice
Nice to see Pat Dubois back on these boards. It seems an awfully long time since you posted on the Sub Boards and we missed you!
Hope you are still enjoying the Outback
Cheers
Graham
Pat.
Sorry for all the questions,
Ed
~ferretboy1
Ed
-Steven-
Blue Mon!
-Steven-
Also, I love my Forester so far except it already has a couple of rattles in it. Is that normal?
Go to the dealer, to have your L checked out. The worst is when rattes are hard to reproduce. If they're reproducible, then dealer will fix it at no charge. You have 12K/12mo "adjustments" warranty on Subarus, for things like that.
Cool! Enjoy shopping around. There are tons of products to choose from. Here's a basic list:
- Big plastic bucket
- 2 wash mitts
- car shampoo
- cleaner/wax
- clean terry cloth towels
Two items that might make life easier are:
- California Water Blade (car squeege -- dries you Forester a lot quicker)
- Chamois (great for streak free drying)
Ed
The Amsoil filter shouldn't need any extra oil. In fact, I think the ones that come from the factory are over-oiled, as you found out. Don't bother washing it. Instead, blot out the extra oil on the filter by sandwiching it in some old newspaper and pushing on it. Afterwards, let it dry overnight before installing it in your Forester. When I got mine, I made the mistake of installing it straight in and getting oil on the inside of my airbox.
The installation should be straightfoward. You simply swap it for the paper filter. Just remember that the side with the coarse foam should face upstream (ie. closer to the intake).
Ken
scott
Sorry it took so long to answer your question on the speakers, but my computer was down for the count for a few days. I see you're getting some anyway, but here's the info for whoever else might be interested. I tried some Pioneer 6 1/2" in front, but they were too big to use with the factory splash shields. I wound up getting a set of "MB Quart" components in front. These consist of a 5 1/4" midrange and a 3/4" tweeter. The 5 1/4" fit perfectly, and the tweeters went right into the factory openings. (I had them installed at a local shop.) The difference from the factory speakers is tremendous. I had 5 1/4" MB Quart coaxials installed in the rear doors. They were unable to use the factory splash shields, so they made some shields out of heavy plastic. Apparently, the factory openings don't actually fit the 6 1/2" front and rears (some sources list 5" in rear; some list 6 1/2") when using the shields. Anyway, I'm happy with the sound from the 5 1/4". I listened to a lot of different speakers and settled on The MB Quart, but in all honesty, any quality brand name aftermarket speakers are going to do well as a replacement for the factory speakers.
I had a Pioneer Premier DEH P430 CD receiver installed in place of the factory 6 disc head unit and the system now sounds even better. This head unit gives greater range of adjustment as well as higher power (22 watts per channel continuous; 50 watts per channel peak). I picked up a "pocket" from the Subaru dealer to close in the lower space left by removing the factory "double DIN" size head unit, so now I have a little extra storage space as well. My next move is to add a Clarion self powered 100 watt underseat subwoofer to the system. That should round it out nicely. I'll keep everyone posted.
I was driving yesterday and my Check Engine light came on. I know that this has been discussed on this forum before, but if anyone could give a quick recap on the causes I'd be most appreciative. The gas cap is tightened (about 6 clicks) and it had been 200 plus miles since the last fillup when the light came on. The light has been on ever since. The car only has about 2500 miles. I made an appointment to have the dealer take a look at it next week.
Len
After test-driving the Forester S with Premium package twice, here's my gut feeling:
Pros -- nimble handling, good visibility, loads of cargo space, good safety features, decent mileage using regular fuel, awesome sunroof.
Cons -- cheap-looking interior (cloth at corners of seats was wrinkled and uneven), hard-as-a-board back seats, same lame color selection as in previous model year.
I experienced the same type of problem. Took the wagon (LL Bean) to the dealer who determined from the code it was a fuel sender problem. The light went out but, after a day or so came on again. The solution was to remove the on board computer and return it to Subaru (via overnight mail) who changed both fuel sensors and the ECU. I was offered a rental during the down time. The dealer returned the wagon to me the morning of the third day.
In summary, I thought both Subaru and the local dealer were very professional and quick in taking care of the problem.
I hope this helps!
Don
Thanks for the info. I'm bringing it in to the dealer on Monday for a look. Hopefully they'll be able to get it taken care of quickly. That yellow light is extremely annoying!
Frank P.,
In message #1184 on this forum you asked about an underseat subwoofer. I found a Clarion (model PSW160) which should fit. I ordered one and should have it in a week or so. It looks like it will fit. It isn't exactly the same as the Subaru unit, though it looks similar. I wouldn't be surprised if Clarion makes the factory unit for them. The Subaru is listed as 80 watts, and the Clarion is 100 watts (peak). I found a Kenwood model that sounded great, but there was some problem with seat travel. Anyway, I'll let you know how it works out when I get it. I'm very happy with the system so far (Pioneer CD receiver and MB Quart speakers). It sounds really clean and has nice punch. The sub should fill in the bottom quite nicely.
Len
Bill
Is it the brake feel or braking performance that you're not happy with? If it's brake feel, then it would probably be much cheaper to replace the brake booster from the current dual stage to a single stage booster. That should give you a more linear feel vs. the soft feel some have complained about. Other things that could help are replacing the brake lines with steel braided ones.
If it's braking performance, the first thing I would do is change the wheel/tires. The L comes with 205/70R17s. Replacing those with a wider wheel/tire (like the 215/60R16 that comes with the Forester S) combination should help quite a bit. Swapping out the drums for discs will probably be the most expensive alternative.
Ken
The Subaru subwoofer hooks up directly to the stock head unit with the cables that are included. This unit is self-powered, using a built in amplifier, same as the Clarion PSW160, and the amplified Bazookas and similar units. If you go with a conventional sub, you'll need to run a separate amp.
Len
Ross
I did it yesterday morning and it took me about 30 minutes because the filter wasn't a perfect fit. In fact, I had to trim about 1/4" off one side in order to get the plenum box to close properly and without gaps. I followed Ken's procedure and after resetting the ECU and letting the car run at idle I took off on my morning errands.
I've put almost 100 miles on it both yesterday and today, combination of about 50:50 city/highway. Here's what I've noticed:
1. The intake is very loud at WOT or any time I punch the accelerator. If I accelerate gradually there's no really perceptible difference in sound.
2. Butt dyno hasn't noticed any significant gains, but then I've got a big butt so it might take some doing.
3. As Ken predicted my fuel economy is much worse than usual. I've burned 1/2 tank in the 100 miles I've driven.
4. In one short stretch (approx. 1/2 mile) of a not-too-steep uphill grade, I heard pinging for the first time ever. This bothered me somewhat in that I didn't hear it before I did the install and I didn't add any different gasoline after the install. I hope this is just part of the ECU relearning process.
In sum, the jury's still out on this one. I'll give it a couple of tankfuls and see how it goes then.
Ed
Ed -- When I first installed my Amsoil filter, I also struggled to get the airbox shut properly. After a while, the foam will compress a bit and "mold" into the space to form a tight fit. Subsequent removals/reclosings shouldn't be as difficult.
Some light pinging is not a bad sign -- it means that your engine's timing is advanced as far as it can without knocking. It may or may not be due to the filter (I personally didn't experience any). Try the next higher grade of gas if it seems to be persistent.
Ken
Thanks for yr info. I heard U are going w/ the PSW160. Let me know yr installation process after U got it, ok?
Rgds,
Jack
In the future I will definitely shut the engine off while refueling, and continue to tighten the cap several clicks when reinstalling it. Hopefully that will solve the problem for good.
Len
PS: Jack, I'll keep you posted on the subwoofer.
Anyway, as the enthusiastic owner of a '00 Outback, here are my comparative first impressions of the Forester:
I like it, my wife likes it, our daughter loves it (the firm rear seats are a real winner with her),
The ride is noticably harsher than the OB (although it improved quite a bit after I brought the tire pressure down from a whopping 45 psi to 34 psi; more on this in a minute),
There is a good deal more body roll than in the OB: an exit ramp I am accustomed to taking at 50 mph in the OB seemed a bit tight at 35 in the Forester; perhaps I'm just not used to it yet),
The Forester is noticably more responsive/quicker around town than the OB,
The Forester's interior is less aesthetically sophisticated, but since ours looks like a product of the Bauhaus (white over black), I regard it as "appropriately utilitarian",
While both are super-functional, I can tell already that the Forester will be our vehicle of choice for unimproved mountain roads and flyfishing excursions (the OB will be our choice for highway trips),
Finally, insects love the Forester even more than YOU and I! On the drive home (mostly NYS Thruway) I was continuously bombarded by flying insects of every kind. While my wife in the OB had only a few specimens on her grill and windshield when we got home, the Forester was emblazoned with the vivid colors of a thousand different insects. Maybe this should be the official car of the Federation of American Entomologists!
Now, a few questions: what pressure do you experts run your tires at (remember now, this the L with the Duelers)? The dealer must have forgotten to drop the pressure after the car came off the carrier, thus the 45 psi I mentioned earlier. I have them at 34 psi now, but Subaru recommends 29. Also, I seem to recall some earlier discussion about installing a heavier rear sway bar. Can anyone refresh my memory? Finally, I was surprised to see that the tach in the Forester read only 28k at 70 mph, while my OB turns at about 32k (both are 5 speeds). Are they really geared that differently? I did get at least 26 mpg on this first trip (without using the cruise control), so I'm not complaining.
As I learn more about the Forester I'll have more comments and questions.
Dave
I found that 32-35 psi is fine for the ride on my Forester, although I have Geolandars not Duelers.
I run the duelers at about 36psi front, 34psi rear. There is an upgraded sway bar that some here have installed, as well as a front strut tower brace.
If you looking to improve handling, first go to larger rims/tires. The high profile (70 series) tires are the main problem. A "plus one" (16" rim - 60 series) or "plus two" (17" rim - 55 series) would be about right. I am considering a "plus one" upgrade.
-Tony
It's a shame they haven't come up with a teflon-like finish, whereby insects could easily be washed off.
Bob
Congratulations on your new Forester!
I think the general consensus is that the recommended pressures for the Forester are too low. I also have a Forester S with the Yokohamas and I run them at around 32. 34 is probably fine for the Duelers.
The best bang-for-your-buck upgrade you can do for your Forester (aside from new tires) is to install a bigger rear sway bar. The Forester uses the same rear sway bar as the Impreza so you have a wide selection to choose from. The 18mm bar made by Subaru seems to work well with my Forester -- handling is even more responsive.
26mpg on your first tank is very impressive. Milage will improve over time so you've got a lot to look forward to!
As for gearing, it would make sense that the OB is geared shorter since it is about 300lbs heavier than the Forester.
Ken
Someone please help.
BTW, the Outback is not geared shorter. They actually share the same final drive and gear ratios, I believe, but the OB has bigger diameter tires so it effectively is geared taller.
Ed: thanks for the Amsoil report.
Len: don't worry much about a CEL, it's probably an O2 sensor. Let the dealer have a look-see. If it were real bad, the light would blink.
Nitpicky: there actually are new colors for 2002! They must have heard you! ;-)
zeke: the belts are to be inspected at 90k miles, and changed at 105k. May as well just change 'em at 90k, given the labor you're already paying for. I think the Phase I is non-interference (not sure about the Phase II), but I don't want to find out the hard way, so I'll follow the maintenance schedule.
Bill: I agree 100% with Ken, and I've actually swapped for better tires (on aftermarket rims, too). The braking improved dramatically. It's too good, in fact...
Yesterday I got rammed by a Saturn with inferior brakes. No ABS on hers, so she skidded sideways into my bumper. Two punctures in the bumper cover and a cracked tail light lens, plus a small ding on the quarter panel.
Her Saturn was a mess. Bumper is gone. Hood was creased. Quarter panel actually broke apart (it's plastic on Saturns). She also lost a turn signal and her headlight.
We've got twin piston front calipers with 4-sensor 4-channel ABS, coupled to Nitto NT460 tires (far better wet traction than the Duelers). She had single piston calipers and no ABS. BAM!
-juice
Ross
Does Subaru have ways to upgrade or am I better off getting it replaced at a car audio store?
Thanks,
Cynthia
-juice
If that's still not working, it could be that the head unit itself is defective. Another option would be to see if you can get some kind of amplifier for the antenna signal.
Ken
Ed
-juice
Dave - I have a '01 L 5 speed and I run my Duelers at 37F/34R. The 3 psi difference helps counteract the understeer, and judging by your sway bar question this might be to your liking.
Regards,
Frank
Kris: I agree with you totally. I too love the Forester (mine has only 250 miles and is one week old) but so far, Penny, my 12 year old Springer Spaniel hasn't been allowed in it. I think she's getting impatient for her first ride. So, what is this dog barrier/hatch bag? How do they work and where did you get them? Penny loves going out with me, and I know she'll love the moon roof. But ouch, the leather seats :-( I'd appreciate any information on how to dog-proof. Thanks, Susan (and Penny)