Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Good point! Like I always said, the wealthiest people in this country (Ameica) are also the dumbest. Germans see Mercedes and BMW's for what they really are: Taxi's for the global taxi fleets.
Okay, since you are so smart why aren't you as wealthy or wealthier than those so called "rich dumb people". Somehow that just doesn't add up... :confuse:
I'll let you into some little secret, there are places in this world besides Europe that use MB for taxis, luxurious taxis that is. You see, just because it's a taxi doesn't automatically mean it's not a good car, a car is judged by it's driving dynamics, comfort and reliability. Just because it has a "for rent" sign on top of the roof doesn't mean it is less desirable than a beat up Hyundai.
Since the new CTS has already hit the rental lot does that make it less desirable than say a Honda Accord?
Again, here's how to determine your Standard of the World (because, does anyone else's Standard really matter to you or your wallet?):
Research some cars
Drive some cars
Buy a car
And, voila! You have just created Your Standard of the World! Because, unless someone else is paying for (or driving) it, does it really matter what anyone else considers "The" Standard?
Even if you hold on to the argument that, as there has been no Dewar Trophy awarded since 1906 (ish, forgot the exact date...), Caddy is still the Standard, well, good for you! Of course, that just means nothing in 2008...
Remember, at Ford, Quality was Job 1. So, Fords must be the Standard of the World for quality. And, the Renault Alliance was The Car of the Year, so it must have been The Standard that year. The VW Beetle was the best selling car in history. If that's not a Standard, then what is? Or is the Standard the Toyota Corolla? The BMW 3 has been on C & D's 10 Best list for like 15 straight years, now there's a Standard. I'm sure that in the very, very few countries on earth where Caddys are not sold, even those auto enthusiasts would recognize Caddy's Standardness.... Not to mention the Trabant, The Standard of the Eastern Block. Had they won the Cold War: Trabant. The Standard of the World. Disagree and you can drive your non-Standard all around Siberia...
Yes, it is very important to establish The Standard of the World and convince all the world to acknowledge and accept The Standard. It is significant, important and shall continue to determine the success of the Marque that controls this currently most coveted title.
Hey, that was kinda fun! Please continue because:
Hey hey. My my. Fanboy arguments will never die!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Germans see MB and BMW as national pride, the little they are allowed - and Germans understand how a car is supposed to drive. I will admit I am biased, I have driven MB since I was in high school and have owned no other marque since - as there is common DNA to how they all drive. Many BMW people feel the same. Both marques have had substantial problems over the past 8-10 years - but still retain an enthusiast base. On the large scale, I don't see this dying.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Oh, and the only person I ever saw drive a Cadillac DTS rental car was the President of the US.
On CNN the other night.
.
Their purchasing power is also lower and their streets are designed for small vehicles, too.
Therefore, its a common strategy for Mercedes Benz to make "people cars" such as C-Classes, E-Classes and 3-Series vehicles to be sold to taxi fleets for the European continent. But realising that American rich people are also American dumb people, Mercedes Benz and BMW only need to take the taxi's they use in their own countries, add fake leather, a petrol engine and a passable sound system to it and sell it on our continent as an 'exotic, foreign car'. Knowing full well that rich Americans will buy anything that's exotic and foreign, they market them here as such, knowing that the buyer is either too dumb or too lazy to do his research on said vehicle.
In the end, we end up with a bunch of cheap European taxi's with OK sound systems clogging our highways and byways.
.
Go to your local airport, you'll find DTS rentals.
This explains why fintail is against Cadillac. circlew is the same way.
Your views on this product strategy are misguided. Making a competent platform with many variations is not about stupid people, it is about efficient engineering. Are American rich people who bought Caddys with archaic or plain lame engineering stupid too? Or are they smart for preferring a car with a bordello interior and plood over something that can take corner and not rattle after 30K miles? Do you think Caddy would be improving today, as it very much is, if not for the competition?
Right now Europe has endless superior roads, and more purchasing power than most debt-ridden Americans.
Again, I believe that while Caddy (GM) can build cars competitive with the rest of the world, and have been slowly (re)building to such a position, no they will never be "The Standard." Unless "Standard" (e.g. as in the early 20th Century, most easily interchangeable parts. Which, as I noted, really means nada in 2008...) can be defined and agreed upon by all concerned. Not bloody likely...
Again, the only "Standard" that matters is the one in your garage by the motorway...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Simple enough to me.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
The CTS is really a good car. It still needs refining, IMHO. As Top Gear said, the previous CTS-V looks like it was designed with someone who only had a ruler available.
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
If you don't stand apart from the rest, how can you be recognized as a World Standard?
It's exactly like Dada said. End of story!
Regards,
OW
I used to be a big fan of Mercedes. The W126 S-Class was just about automotive perfection in it's time, but Mercedes didn't follow it up well. I don't care for the bloated, ostentatious 1992-era S-Class which seems to be the preferred conveyance of Russian mafia in NE Philly. I'm frightened of the expensive repair and maintenance costs I've seen my BIL endure with his 2000 S430.
BMW? Well, if I had a lot of money to throw away, I MIGHT take a chance on one just to see if it really was the "ultimate driving machine" but I'll leave that to my friend who's more of a European car afficianado and has a greater disposable income. A BMW always came across as being a bit fragile to me. I'd end up breaking it too much on Philly's cratered streets.
I don't like the new styling direction in which Lexus is heading. I liked it better when they were copying the last-generation S-Class. The Lexus LS was like getting the look of the S-Class and decent reliability all in one. The GS? Well, my girlfriend's Buick LaCrosse is a lot less expensive and a lot prettier too.The ES? Geeze, when I saw a new one outside a pizza joint, I thought it was a Camry. The IS? Good God! It's cramped, fierociously overpriced, and nondescript. Everybody else's car walks all over this one.
Inifiniti? Miss the Q45. Don't care for their new styling direction. It looks too alien.
Acura? The RL desperately needs a V-8 to be competitive in the $50K+ segment.
Buick? The Sensible Choice! My brain tells me I should've gone for the Lucerne CXS, but my heart went for the Cadillac DTS Performance.
Interesting thought. If we take "standard" to mean the level to which others aspire, let's review Cadillac for the last 20 years or so:
With the (I think this was the first year of the "new" direction) '92 Seville (STS, SLS) and continued iterations, the latest DTS, phasing out of Brougham's and Fleetwoods et. al. and, probably most notably the Gen 1 and 2 CTS, Caddy has been dialing in more driving dynamics and less float/boudiour on wheels. Also, interiors have lost the "button tufted" shiny red leather bench seats in favor of (as evidenced by the pix PMC4 posted of the STS) more supportive, performance-type style bucket seats. In other words, the Caddy lineup is aggressively emulating European (sport) sedans (yes, you can read that as BMW & MB)!
Therefore, if you are correct about Caddy being the standard, then it would appear that the standard is to be of European design and driving dynamics!
Therefore, if a=b and b=c then a=c, if Caddy aspires to be BMW/MB and Caddy is The Standard: BMW and MB (and other European Marques) are the true "Standard!"
Of course, I drive an Acura, so I simply (again) drive my standard. :shades:
Oh, yeah. Your comments re: BMW build/reliability? Many have been making the same arguments regarding the domestics since the '70s: waste of money on poorly built, unreliable, yesterday's technology. Valid? Voted with their wallets... And note my ride prior to TL was a '99 Chrylser 300M. A car I thoroughly enjoyed, even though the build quality and reliability were not up to the standards of my TL. Still, the M was great for me! So, I think that represents my fair and balanced view (hated Gen 1 CTS: Worst. Interior. Ever. Esp. for $40k! New CTS, wow, nice job... And, I've had an inexplicable hankerin' for an XLR... :confuse: )
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Let's not - that's past history.
What's Caddy doing now? - people aren't flocking to the showrooms to buy anything from 1992.
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/mar2008/bw20080314_713158.htm?chan- =autos_autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories
By the way, he also says that GM is the only one of the big 3 that is going to make it.
Cadillac deserves buckets of credit. In the face of skeptics like me, the second-generation CTS is a great car, hands down. Here I'll compare the $36,445 CTS DI with all-wheel drive [AWD] to the $51,600 BMW 535xi, likewise with AWD. Wait, isn't that a mismatch? Isn't the CTS priced to sell against the cheaper 3 Series? It may well be, but the interior space, engine displacement, and amenities are all stacked rather nicely against the 5 Series. Call it the silver lining to the weak-kneed U.S. dollar.
There's little doubt about it; the twin-turbocharged in-line six-cylinder engine in the 5 Series is one of the best motors we've seen from BMW, and that's saying a hell of a lot. Acceleration isn't only brisk, but linear. And while we'd rather have the 5 with a manual, it's hard to argue with how creamily smooth BMW's six-speed autobox delivers gear changes, whether up slowly or down all at once for passing power. Handling, even at twice the speed limit, is precise, controlled, sharp. All-wheel drive is seamless, save that there's no wheelspin on takeoff, even on rain-slick roads.
But there are niggles. BMW's automatic is operated by way of a strange, center-mounted stalk. Forget PRND; it would take high-level trigonometry to describe the shift pattern. To engage drive from park, you illogically move the stalk backwards, while also holding down a button on the side of the shifter. To put the car in reverse, you move the shifter forward – again, counterintuitively. In manual mode, downshifts are created by moving the stalk forward, not back. Dizzy yet?
BMW's iDrive in-car control system soldiers on, too. It's not as terrible as some columnists have bemoaned, and some knobs have crept back into the mix so you can, for instance, toggle through audio functions without using the mouse and screen of iDrive [thereby concentrating on the ultimate driving of the "Ultimate Driving Machine"]. However, if you want to change the temperature of the air blowing on you from the central vent you don't use the vent control knob, but iDrive. I don't know why.
Perhaps most challenging for any would-be 5 Series buyer is that backseat room is merely tied with that of the much cheaper CTS. It's more than adequate for most adults, but hardly capacious – and if you step up to a comparably priced Cadillac DTS or slightly more expensive Lexus LS you get bigger cockpits.
One of the first things I noticed while driving the Cadillac was the cockpit. The first-generation CTS had cheap plastic switches and controls donated from lesser lights in GM's pantheon; who wants their Caddy cabin to resemble a Cobalt's? Luckily the midlevel bean counter who made that decision is shackled and gagged in a dungeon somewhere in East Lansing, Mich. What you get with the new CTS is not only buttoned-tight quarters and logically arranged dashboard controls, but the material grade of the plastics and even the feel of the switches under finger pressure is refined. Someone at Cadillac has done his homework, and it shows.
Next on the list of pleasantries has to be the performance of the CTS. The engine isn't as flexible as that of the BMW's, where peak torque arrives nice and low, but this V6 is still good for 304 hp, on par with the BMW, and in most circumstances, just as athletic and flexible, either under hard acceleration or quick, downshift deceleration. If there's a hiccup in the system it's that BMW's autobox will allow manual downshifts within 500 rpms of redline, whereas the GM transmission would balk if the rev range was too high. How often do you find yourself at the racetrack with your CTS, though?
Both of these cars have standout steering and braking. On-center control is precise, and keeping either car on course on a challenging road is a joy, not a chore. The brake-pedal feel of the BMW is just a hair more precise, but the actual bite of the CTS stoppers is plenty potent. [Hint: If you're in the market for the CTS, spring the extra $250 for the performance rotors – they're worth every cent.]
Cornering in the CTS is taut, as is body control, yet what wins my vote most is that Cadillac achieved this and still offers a very flexible ride that doesn't bruise your kidneys over potholes.
As you can see, for the dough you really can't vote against the Cadillac. The BMW is an excellent driver's car, but is it worth that much more?
By the way, fuel economy is nearly dead even for these two vehicles, with the BMW at 17 mpg city/25 mpg highway and the Caddy at 17/26. Bonus: The CTS drinks blue-collar regular while the BMW wants blue-blood premium.
Let me in on the numbers!
Regards,
OW
Let me in on the numbers!
I can do that.
For January caddy is up 7.7%
CTS up 95%
STS up 18%
DTS down 32%
Escalade down 12%
Large cars and trucks are getting hammered by the gas prices. CTS is new and an excellent vehicle. Do not know why STS is up.
In January BMW was down 27%. Mercedes set a record with a 7% rise. Their SUV sales had a significant increase.
In February Caddy was up 2.2% over last February. CTS was up 70%. Others down about 6%. Escalade down 26%.
Again Mercedes was up 7% over last year and BMW was down 7%.
Two months do not make a trend though.
I didn't actually review Caddy's of 20 years ago. Rather to answer "The Standard" question, I just noted that Caddy seems to have begun a slow road to new levels of competitiveness, culminating (to this point, imo) in the new CTS.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Here is some more related news.
The new Cadillac CTS also burst out of the gate, with a 71 percent gain in retail sales in February compared with a year earlier, and a 68 percent overall increase. CTS’s early momentum buoyed Cadillac overall. The division’s sales are up 5 percent year-to-date. For February, Cadillac reported a 2 percent overall sales increase, making it the only GM division in the black for the month — and one of the few luxury makes to post a February sales increase in the U.S. market.
The Bad
Most GM makes and models performed abysmally, especially trucks and SUVs. Sales of such vehicles declined by 19 percent. LaNeve cited a tough comparison for this February with February 2007, noting GM’s truck-market share was an unusually high 45 percent a year ago — and this year retreated to a “normal” level around 40 percent. “We continue to do really well sharewise,” he said, “but we’re running into difficult conditions.” GM raised its incentive spending on pickups by “a couple hundred dollars” in February compared with January, he said.
Regards,
OW
Still a good used car is a better buy than new.
Regards,
OW
I will comment again that this whole thead (forum or whatever) is complete nonsense. I made this comment at the beginning too..... :sick: :sick: :sick:
Most people read the title and wonder what Caddy is doing in the showrooms right now to regain/retain their world class standard. If no manufacturer can be the "Cadillac of Cars" again, then that's the way it is I guess.
GM has turned around Cadillac in recent years .. but is it enough? (to paraphrase Post #1).
No, because GM still hasn't returned Cadillac to the top tier of luxury marques. Cadillac is improving - but it lacks a real competitor to the Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-Series and Lexus LS 460.
Cadillac also lacks consistency...I've just read that Cadillac is discontinuing the XLR after 2012. It is also phasing out the SRX.
Mercedes and BMW have been consistent with their offerings...so people know what a Mercedes SL is, for example. Cadillac should have built upon the current XLR and offered an improved one (as it did with the CTS), but now it is throwing in the towel, just as it did with the Allante.
In today's crowded and hyper-competitive market, having a model that is well-known and recognizable is vital. Even people who don't know much about cars know what a BMW 3-Series and a Mercedes SL are, and what they represent. The only Cadillac model that comes close to that type of widespread recognition is the Escalade.
Through the late 1960s, Cadillac was the default choice for luxury car buyers...people who bought one knew what they were getting, and what kind of statement that they were making. It was the other brands (or, more accurately, the people who bought them) that had the explaining to do...now BMW, Mercedes and Lexus are the default brands (depending on the segment), and it is Cadillac that must fight for recognition. Cadillac isn't there yet - the success of the CTS and Escalade isn't enough.
I see very good days ahead for GM once we get past this economy issue. And Cadillac will continue to lead the charge with very affordable lux vehicles. The new BRX will blow away the competion. The new STS/DTS will up the ante over the CTS. The Escalade will continue to lose sales as gas goes up but will continue to sell at high volumes at high prices with huge profits. And the big surprize will be the new XLR.
Is that Cadillac's new mission? To provide the trappings of luxury at affordable prices? The Hyundai Genesis is better positioned to do that, I think.