IMO, the best non-American alternative to the big Caddy is the Infiniti M. Its road manners are on a par with those of the BMW 5 & 7, but it's a helluva lot cheaper. Also, the Japanese are way ahead of the Germans when it comes to putting sophisticated electronics - nav & high-end sound systems - into cars.
For 2009, the RWD M35 & M45 will get a 7-speed transmission. The AWD models will continue to ship with the older 5-speed, although I imagine that this will change as production of the 7-speed ramps up.
If I ran BMW's North American operation, I would lose sleep over Infiniti. The G & M cars just keep getting better. Unless you're a stick-shift bigot, like me, I'm not sure that there's a good reason to choose a BMW over its Infiniti counterpart. (This is coming from a longtime 3-series owner.)
Another reason Caddy and GM are a lap behind....Infinity. I test drove a G and it is a great choice. The M is even better if you like Caddy-type ride and luxo.
Oh, I'm not the blind one, after all when mags as hoary and respected as Autocar give kudos to the Cadillac CTS-V and trolls like you refuse to see that, well things like that should be self-evident to the rational intelligent types... :P
Why you continue to bring up the CTS' "shortcomings" as compared to your 3 series just because they are the same price is beyond me.
The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla.
Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!!
A 5 series SHOULD be better quality than the CTS, as you could buy a Fit or Aveo with the price difference!!
If the CTS is being touted as close, but not quite, when comparing to the 3's sportiness or a 5's luxuriousness, then it is BMW who should be asking how they get that close w/ a car that "cheap" and big.
Also, did it ever occur to you that the CTS' true mission is to be 3 series "like", yet still hold true to Cadillac (and American) tradition???
Remember, the 3 is "mid-sized" by Euro standards, while the CTS is "small" by American standards.
Another reason Caddy and GM are a lap behind....Infinity [sic]. I test drove a G and it is a great choice. The M is even better if you like Caddy-type ride and luxo.
I think that you missed my point. The Infiniti (not "Infinity") M is more than an alternative to the Caddy. It's a value-priced alternative to the 5-series. From a marketing perspective, it's more of a threat to BMW than it is to Cadillac.
Compare the BUILD QUALITY of the 5-series vs. the CTS. Similar size cars. At the end of the comparo, 5-series wins. Soft suspension or sport suspension.
The new V is an example of what can be done if the car does not break over time. We will see.
The intenet of all this is to make Cadillac the best. It's not there yet and hopefully will make it. When you make the best, they sell themselves.
The 5-series should be better than the CTS for the extra cost. No BMW got on the list in its segment, meaning that they are at best 4th. One Cadillac did get on the list in its segment. The German 3-series factory did get on the list for building good cars, so perhaps circlew's 3-series came from this factory? If so, then he was extremely lucky :surprise:
Here we go again.... CTS vs. 3series, the ultimate comparison, again???? Yeah it just never ends.
For those who complain about Cadillac being inferior to BMW, or vice versa, its a matter of personal taste!!!! Fact is noone, even those with brief test drives, can deny the fact that the BMW's steering is far more communicative.
"Why you continue to bring up the CTS' "shortcomings" as compared to your 3 series just because they are the same price is beyond me. The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla. Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!! "
Heres the problem: Cadillac position the CTS to COMPETE WITH BMW 3-SERIES, NOT 5!!!!! I understand, logically the CTS doesnt belong in the compact luxo car, but thats exactly how Cadillac place the CTS. What can we say??? Cadillac made the choice, customers like us just react accordingly. Please remember GM brags that CTS' handling is on equal footing with bmw's 3series. But when compared what happens? The CTS fell apart. On the other hand, the CTS does have softer, plush ride that's more comfortable than BMW's. Now if you still have doubts, think about this: the Infiniti G35 is ALMOST AS LARGE as CTS, also positioned to challenge the 3, yet the handling nearly matches BMW's. Does the Cadi come anywhere close? I'd say no. If anyone argue that CTS should be compared to the 5er, then why is the G capable of matching the smaller BMW? Infiniti nailed the target, Cadillac failed. No excuses.... Here's my take on the 3 cars (yes, I have test driven all 3): 1) Performance/handling: BMW tops, G35 very close 2nd, CTS trails. The CTS steering is slow to react when compared to the other 2. However I admit the gap is narrowed significantly now. 2) Ride comfort: Cadillac is best, BMW a bit distant 2nd, G35 worst by far. While the soft suspension isnt necessarily good for agressive driving, I love the CTS' ride on long trips (I did rent one for a 300 mile trip for 3 days) 3) Standard features: Infiniti tops, Cadillac 2nd, BMW worst by a million years. BMWs come stripped down in base form, its a pity that Cadillac lean towards BMW than Infiniti-Acura-Lexus, choosing to make many features optional. GM charge extra cost for paints? None of the japanese charge that, and no, not even BMW should get away with that. 4) Interior quality: BMW still best (though barely), CTS a very very close 2nd, G35 trails. I still think there's too much cheap plastic inside the CTS at this price, frankly I wont complain at all if GM charges CTS at Infiniti price. That said, bmw, while victorious in comparison, still feel rather cheap for the price. 5) Pricing: Infiniti kills all the others, CTS trails, BMW trails even more. A nicely loaded G35 cost about 36k, an equally equipped CTS will cost 4-5k more, and an equivalent 335 will burn your wallet for 44k. -I admit I'm not familiar with CTS' reliability, so I'm skipping that part to be fair. And before any of you ask, yes I like BMWs, used to own one, but I'm not defending BMW. I actually find Infiniti the best deal of the 3 at the moment. Now how do you decide which is best? You cant. Each has his/her own preference, making the term "best/better" just as subjective as it can be. One more thing, can we stop calling names?? Its kinda immature you know? .... thanks, and peace, guys.
GM charge extra cost for paints? None of the japanese charge that, and no, not even BMW should get away with that.
Cadillac only charges extra for specialty paint. They have to go thru the paint cycle 1 or 2 more times depending on whether it is tintcoat or tricoat so it cost a bit more. It also requires more paint line capacity. The paint is a bunch more expensive too. I see they charge $995. And now they are offering a Chromaflair color.
5 years ago Lexus did charge for the tint coats and tricoats but in looking at their website they no longer do.
BMW 3 charges $550 just for metallic which is no cost at Cadillac and Lexus. But they do not charge on the 5 or 7. They do not offer a tricoat or tintcoat.
I see a lot of tricoat whites and red tint coats on GM high line vehicles so they are making a good profit on a desirable feature. Neighbor just picked up a white tricoat Enclave. Was driving a Lucerne with the same color.
Road & Track compared the G35 and new CTS. While they rated the CTS 2nd, it was only 5 points out of 400 less than the G35, not much difference. My impression of what they were saying was that the CTS's ride was nicer than the G35, but that the G35's handling was better. Two slightly different cars. They also had a side-bar comparision with the 535, which was a good $15,000 more expensive. The 535 was far better than either the G35 or CTS as it should be for more than $60,000. The CTS's price tag was nearly $20,000 less.
So I don't think that the CTS's handling "fell apart" as you stated. What I think is true is that all of the "sports sedans" have tire/suspension tuning that is different and there are trade-offs that will make one better than another in certain comparisions. Better handling will ususally mean a rougher ride, but on real road conditions which is best is probably not black and white. Road & Track seemed to feel that the CTS would be a much better car for a long trip, while the G35 was probably better for zipping through switchbacks.
Your post is perfect. That is why Cadillac is not the standard for much other than straight line cruising. For that type of ride, why spend the money on the Caddy? A Lexus ES is perfect for that as is an Avalon.
I will give you credit OW...you never give up for a rebuttal!!! People buy a Cadillac because they want a Cadillac. People buy a Lexus because they want a Lexus.People buy a Toyota becuse they want a Toyota. People spend their money the way they want to!!!!!!!
I own an SRX. Car & Driver has rated it number 1 since it went into production in 2004 until this year when it was #2. However, the consensus in the last comparison test was that most of the editors would still pick the SRX over the so called winner. So is the SRX really #2 or is it #1 because it was #1 4 out of 5 years?
I think with respect to the Road & Track comparison test that you are completely misinterpreting what Road & Track said (and I doubt that you have bothered to read the magazine anyway).
Since you seem to value performace above all, why did you not buy something better than the 3-series? The 1-series surely outperforms it!
In 5-6 inches of snow, yes. In the 2008 comparison the Acura was #1. The BMW X5 was determined to be not in the running and so did not even make it to the comparison. I think at least half a dozen vehicles were in the comparison each year.
Car & Driver did not get the 20 inch sport package that I have either.
Excellent choice! How about the Z-06 Corvette? THose 2 cars are the only ones worth their weight.
But I need a sedan...any ideas? For example, nothing beats the 3-series for a family sedan manufactured by the US Auto manufactures. Perhaps after they get their low cost loans for car development, that might change but for now, I'm not buying.
Shares of General Motors Corp. rose 11.6% Thursday after a Wall Street analyst said a $25-billion government loan package for the auto industry would "notably reduce bankruptcy risk" for the automaker.
My wife had one of the first caddy SRX's (V8) (I forget the year...I am OLD) and it also was "white diamond" and if memory serves me correctly, it was a $900.00 extra. Her newer (V6) one is a metallic dark cherry color, but her next one will again be "white diamond". She loves that color. She also loves her SRX.
If you need a sedan, why did you say that you would have bought the 1-series when it is only available as a coupe? The 3-series is a small car, but is a 4 door. If space is an important consideration then the larger CTS is a useful alternative. If room is less important than having something closer to a sports car, then the 3-series with the sport package is a good choice. But your credibility is now in question as you seem not to know what you are talking about.
The 3-series is the sedan in comparo with CTS. I might have sacrificed the 2 doors after driving this in 2008 but since it wasn't available back in 2005 when I got the 330xi, the point is really moot. In 2005, CTS wasn't even on my radar screen. So far, the style today is better as well as the performance so at least it would be an alternative but for the price. Also, the design is not that appealing to me but much improved. The future coupe would make me change my mind!!
Today, I am giving the 1-series a real lot of consideration. There is nothing comparable at Caddy today but I think they are working on a smaller Caddy. Hope they don't copy the Catera and use the 1-series as a bench mark.
On straight line track, yeah I agree. But the car is too heavy for sharp handling on curvy roads. There are quite a few of those here, mostly owned by college kids. I drove one, albeit only for about 10 mins or so, but it was enough to feel the car's mass overwhelming the steering.
CTS' steering is good, but next to the G and 3 they fell apart from my personal opinion. This not to say I hate the car, in fact the contrary applies if I'm looking for ride comfort, one thing CTS excels in that neither the G or the 3 can match.
"Cadillac charge extra only on tint and tricoat paints"
Uh, sure, but the Japanese dont need double or tricoat paints to look good. Park the 3, G, and CTS in black next to each other, and you'll notice that the CTS' color fade where others shine. Why black? it's the most neutral base color. I saw this months ago at the local Cadi dealer where an 08 CTS was parked next to a used 07 G35, both black. How do you explain that? I was baffled myself.
"R/T comparison rated CTS only slightly behind the G and 5series, which cost 12k more" Uh, one question, why the 5? GM wants CTS to compete with the 3. If the 5 is the rival, then the STS and M must step up for the challenge. Is it because of size? If so you're basically saying that the STS should be compared to the likes of S-class and 750. Oh and along with Chrysler 300c too. GM doesnt make CTS larger to fight the 5er, GM makes it larger because they want the size to be an asset in the competition!!! Also please remember that compared to the current value leaders in the 50k class, the Infiniti M and Audi A6, the CTS holds even weaker cards.
Question: pricewise, do you really think the CTS is a value player in its class??? At $40-41k for a CTS versus $36-37k for a comparably equipped G35, I dont think so.
I've said this before, the only major problem I have with the CTS is price. GM is getting way overconfident in this matter. Overpricing is not the proper way to crawl back to the top. Were it priced close to the G's 36k it'll be a great value, and all its shortcomings can be overlooked.
Performance statistics are going to be something measurable. If you want to talk about real highways, then the results are subjective. My comments were directed to circlew in particular. However, there are a number of cars that do outperform the turbocharged 3-series, not just the GT500.
Perhaps it is useful to point out that the turbocharged 6 in the 5-series matches the performance of the 5-series V8. The turbo 6 has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 RPMs to 5000 RPMs. This gives any car with this engine a lot of torque, and performance will be quite good and hard to beat with a normal engine of any size.
R&T considers the CTS and 5-series to be "roomy" sport sedans. I don't know what Cadillac's thinking on the CTS really is. The CTS is really too big to be considered a serious 3-series sport sedan, but it is not in the same class as the luxury sport sedans either. The CTS is really in a class of its own, and is more or less a lower priced STS. I don't see much point in keeping the STS V6. I think that a loaded CTS is too expensive for what one gets, but if the premium packages would upgrade the interior materials noticably, then that would make a difference. The sigma platform will come to an end at the end of the current CTS's design life. The 3rd generation CTS will be on some other platform.
I'd love to see that, a smaller, nimbler CTS that makes more sense instead of relying on size alone to win customers. Plus I want to see more reasonable pricing, thats for sure. But I agree though, a moderately equipped CTS is an ok deal.
If you like the size of the 3-series, which has grown somewhat in the last 15 years, then the CTS is a bit too big. The 1-series is close to the size that the used to be, but the 1 is way to heavy.
I think the point you're missing (and it could be Caddy missing the point, I don't know) is that even aiming the CTS at the 3 series, the traditional "American Car" buyer still expects a bigger car.
Someone wrote here about the Bimmer being "Sport/Luxury" instead of "Luxury/Sport". Maybe the CTS is trying to be the "Luxury/Sport" car that is a little more sporty than usual.
The typical American car, except for Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, Charger, Firebird reflects big is better. That's what you we got used to, more so with the average Caddy owner. The SUV craze underscore the excess.
The thing is, if you like to drive, the only tool Caddy had was the STS and NOW the CTS. Let's see what their small entrant will be. Hope it can BEAT the 3'er!
This is a subjective concept. For some people the DTS is now the ultimate car. I don't think Cadillac should try to build a car that is better than some BMW, but should instead build cars that together form a line up of vehicles that customers will want to buy. Trying to take BMW customers away from BMW is a waste. You, for example, are not likely to every buy anything else. You can say that you would, but your posts suggest to me that is as likely as lemko is to buy a BMW.
I can see why I once got a DeVille "special edition???" (whatever it means, theyre the same right?), chauffeur included during my business trip to Boston (which was a relief as I knew absolutely nothing about Boston). The ride was smooth, so smooth I could fall asleep inside the car. I had a ride in a Towncar too (I think it was in Miami), smoother riding imo, but when turning the car leaned more than the cadi and the effect was somewhat nauseating. If I have to live through hellish traffic like those in NYC or Boston, I might settle for the matress on wheels too.
I drove in boston for the last 20 yrs and all you gotta do is ignore the yield signs, gun it at yellow, know how to drive around those dinky one way streets and you'll be fine. Oh, and don't drive or park your H1,H2,slade... in cambridge, all the prius in the block will join force and use their Ni-Mh power to fry your truck. To cap it off, the VW rabbit that uses biodiesel will make sure the interior smells like the kitchen of mickey d's for the next 6 months.
I found driving in NYC about the same, except you do have to yield and pedal to the metal at all times.
I think the point you're missing (and it could be Caddy missing the point, I don't know) is that even aiming the CTS at the 3 series, the traditional "American Car" buyer still expects a bigger car.
PRECISELY my point. And I'm one of them. These days, though I'm normally a free market guy, I think it's important to drive American if possible, and so I'm looking at Cadillacs and Lincolns to potentially replace my Lexus sometime in the next 11 months. Tried out an STS the other weekend.....was woefully disappointed, mostly due to the size, or lack thereof. I NEED a large sedan for business, and I LIKE a large car and mileage is secondary for me. The STS misses the mark by a mile. Presently, the DTS is the only possibility for me in the Cadillac stable, and the CTS is really off the mark. Course, that's just me.
RE: Drving in Boston. Don't forget to NOT use your turn signals ("blinkers")!
NYC: Stop light drag races, indeed...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I think so if they stop trying to out-BMW BMW. Cadillac made a name for itself by building world-class full-size luxury cars and needs to refocus on that. We need a new DTS, to return the Seville to it's 1998-2004 proportions, and a revived full-size Eldorado. Sure keep the CTS and maybe one more smaller car around, plus the crossover to keep younger buyers interested, but do not forget what bought you to the dance. Cadillac did that before in the 1980s with the Cimmaron and downsizing, and paid dearly for it, so let's not do it again. I have owned BMWs, and they were great sports sedans. I have owned Cadillacs, and they were great full-size luxury cruisers. A BMW should be a sports sedan, and a Cadillac should be full-size luxury cruiser.
Sounds nice, but Cadillac's problem is that it doesn't have the cachet to command high prices for full-size luxury cruisers like Lexus or MB and its cost structure is too onerous to meet the price vs. size/content of the Hyundai Genesis, so for good or bad they decided to pursue 'Americanized' BMWs as their niche.
If BMW is sport/lux and MB is Lux/performance, Cadillac would be best to mix the best of both with its own history, this would make for better Cadillacs yet.
I think trying to characterize BMW and Mercedes by switching two words around is a gross understatement of the differences. The Mercedes AMG models outpreform BMW's in general at this point in time (but not always). When it comes to luxury, Mercedes is certainly better than BMW. When it comes to sport sedans, both the 3-series and 5-series are probably better than a C-class or E-class. But when you start comparing the M3 or M5, then the Mercedes AMG 63s are hard to beat.
I'm currently driving a CLS55 AMG. You are right, it's very BMWish, maybe a little faster. Certainly as mysterious, uncomfortable and cramped, and unreliable - very German in other words. But it's scary fast.
What has been unreliable about it? Those things do have suspect visibility and AMG seats can be over-bolstered for the growing American physique.
The kompressor AMG cars are depreciating as a whole by maybe 1K/month now...I suspect by the end of next year an 06 CLS55 will be able to be had for under 40K, especially with the upcoming facelift and the the 55 kompressor being discontinued.
Comments
The car is still fantastic and makes all US cars a sad second best AT best. Caddy for sure.
Regards,
OW
For 2009, the RWD M35 & M45 will get a 7-speed transmission. The AWD models will continue to ship with the older 5-speed, although I imagine that this will change as production of the 7-speed ramps up.
If I ran BMW's North American operation, I would lose sleep over Infiniti. The G & M cars just keep getting better. Unless you're a stick-shift bigot, like me, I'm not sure that there's a good reason to choose a BMW over its Infiniti counterpart. (This is coming from a longtime 3-series owner.)
Regards,
OW
Caddy has some nice cars...just not the best.
Regards,
OW
The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla.
Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!!
A 5 series SHOULD be better quality than the CTS, as you could buy a Fit or Aveo with the price difference!!
If the CTS is being touted as close, but not quite, when comparing to the 3's sportiness or a 5's luxuriousness, then it is BMW who should be asking how they get that close w/ a car that "cheap" and big.
Also, did it ever occur to you that the CTS' true mission is to be 3 series "like", yet still hold true to Cadillac (and American) tradition???
Remember, the 3 is "mid-sized" by Euro standards, while the CTS is "small" by American standards.
I think that you missed my point. The Infiniti (not "Infinity") M is more than an alternative to the Caddy. It's a value-priced alternative to the 5-series. From a marketing perspective, it's more of a threat to BMW than it is to Cadillac.
The new V is an example of what can be done if the car does not break over time. We will see.
The intenet of all this is to make Cadillac the best. It's not there yet and hopefully will make it. When you make the best, they sell themselves.
The data shows otherwise.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063
While I cannot get individual model data Cadillac is above industry average while BMW is below. :surprise:
The question is if the CTS is better than CAddy average (it is) and whether the 5 series is above or below BMW average (do not have data)
"The 5-series should be better than the CTS for the extra cost."
That says it all. THAT"S what you are not getting.
Regards,
OW
CTS vs. 3series, the ultimate comparison, again???? Yeah it just never ends.
For those who complain about Cadillac being inferior to BMW, or vice versa, its a matter of personal taste!!!!
Fact is noone, even those with brief test drives, can deny the fact that the BMW's steering is far more communicative.
"Why you continue to bring up the CTS' "shortcomings" as compared to your 3 series just because they are the same price is beyond me.
The CTS is as big as the 5 series, yet is $12K cheaper, while your Bimmer is 1/2 inch SHORTER than a Corolla.
Your car SHOULD handle better; it's SMALLER!!! "
Heres the problem: Cadillac position the CTS to COMPETE WITH BMW 3-SERIES, NOT 5!!!!! I understand, logically the CTS doesnt belong in the compact luxo car, but thats exactly how Cadillac place the CTS. What can we say??? Cadillac made the choice, customers like us just react accordingly.
Please remember GM brags that CTS' handling is on equal footing with bmw's 3series. But when compared what happens? The CTS fell apart. On the other hand, the CTS does have softer, plush ride that's more comfortable than BMW's. Now if you still have doubts, think about this: the Infiniti G35 is ALMOST AS LARGE as CTS, also positioned to challenge the 3, yet the handling nearly matches BMW's. Does the Cadi come anywhere close? I'd say no. If anyone argue that CTS should be compared to the 5er, then why is the G capable of matching the smaller BMW? Infiniti nailed the target, Cadillac failed. No excuses....
Here's my take on the 3 cars (yes, I have test driven all 3):
1) Performance/handling: BMW tops, G35 very close 2nd, CTS trails. The CTS steering is slow to react when compared to the other 2. However I admit the gap is narrowed significantly now.
2) Ride comfort: Cadillac is best, BMW a bit distant 2nd, G35 worst by far. While the soft suspension isnt necessarily good for agressive driving, I love the CTS' ride on long trips (I did rent one for a 300 mile trip for 3 days)
3) Standard features: Infiniti tops, Cadillac 2nd, BMW worst by a million years. BMWs come stripped down in base form, its a pity that Cadillac lean towards BMW than Infiniti-Acura-Lexus, choosing to make many features optional. GM charge extra cost for paints? None of the japanese charge that, and no, not even BMW should get away with that.
4) Interior quality: BMW still best (though barely), CTS a very very close 2nd, G35 trails. I still think there's too much cheap plastic inside the CTS at this price, frankly I wont complain at all if GM charges CTS at Infiniti price. That said, bmw, while victorious in comparison, still feel rather cheap for the price.
5) Pricing: Infiniti kills all the others, CTS trails, BMW trails even more. A nicely loaded G35 cost about 36k, an equally equipped CTS will cost 4-5k more, and an equivalent 335 will burn your wallet for 44k.
-I admit I'm not familiar with CTS' reliability, so I'm skipping that part to be fair.
And before any of you ask, yes I like BMWs, used to own one, but I'm not defending BMW. I actually find Infiniti the best deal of the 3 at the moment. Now how do you decide which is best? You cant. Each has his/her own preference, making the term "best/better" just as subjective as it can be.
One more thing, can we stop calling names?? Its kinda immature you know? .... thanks, and peace, guys.
Regards,
OW
Cadillac only charges extra for specialty paint. They have to go thru the paint cycle 1 or 2 more times depending on whether it is tintcoat or tricoat so it cost a bit more. It also requires more paint line capacity. The paint is a bunch more expensive too. I see they charge $995. And now they are offering a Chromaflair color.
5 years ago Lexus did charge for the tint coats and tricoats but in looking at their website they no longer do.
BMW 3 charges $550 just for metallic which is no cost at Cadillac and Lexus. But they do not charge on the 5 or 7. They do not offer a tricoat or tintcoat.
I see a lot of tricoat whites and red tint coats on GM high line vehicles so they are making a good profit on a desirable feature. Neighbor just picked up a white tricoat Enclave. Was driving a Lucerne with the same color.
So I don't think that the CTS's handling "fell apart" as you stated. What I think is true is that all of the "sports sedans" have tire/suspension tuning that is different and there are trade-offs that will make one better than another in certain comparisions. Better handling will ususally mean a rougher ride, but on real road conditions which is best is probably not black and white. Road & Track seemed to feel that the CTS would be a much better car for a long trip, while the G35 was probably better for zipping through switchbacks.
Regards,
OW
I think with respect to the Road & Track comparison test that you are completely misinterpreting what Road & Track said (and I doubt that you have bothered to read the magazine anyway).
Since you seem to value performace above all, why did you not buy something better than the 3-series? The 1-series surely outperforms it!
WOW, does that mean the SRX outhandles the CTS and 3 series? I mean it must for C&D to rate it above them. Or was the 3 series rated #1.
Car & Driver did not get the 20 inch sport package that I have either.
Regards,
OW
But I need a sedan...any ideas? For example, nothing beats the 3-series for a family sedan manufactured by the US Auto manufactures. Perhaps after they get their low cost loans for car development, that might change but for now, I'm not buying.
Shares of General Motors Corp. rose 11.6% Thursday after a Wall Street analyst said a $25-billion government loan package for the auto industry would "notably reduce bankruptcy risk" for the automaker.
$6B Bailout
Regards,
OW
The 3-series is the sedan in comparo with CTS. I might have sacrificed the 2 doors after driving this in 2008 but since it wasn't available back in 2005 when I got the 330xi, the point is really moot. In 2005, CTS wasn't even on my radar screen. So far, the style today is better as well as the performance so at least it would be an alternative but for the price. Also, the design is not that appealing to me but much improved. The future coupe would make me change my mind!!
Today, I am giving the 1-series a real lot of consideration. There is nothing comparable at Caddy today but I think they are working on a smaller Caddy. Hope they don't copy the Catera and use the 1-series as a bench mark.
Regards,
OW
On straight line track, yeah I agree. But the car is too heavy for sharp handling on curvy roads. There are quite a few of those here, mostly owned by college kids. I drove one, albeit only for about 10 mins or so, but it was enough to feel the car's mass overwhelming the steering.
CTS' steering is good, but next to the G and 3 they fell apart from my personal opinion. This not to say I hate the car, in fact the contrary applies if I'm looking for ride comfort, one thing CTS excels in that neither the G or the 3 can match.
Like I said, preference.
Uh, sure, but the Japanese dont need double or tricoat paints to look good. Park the 3, G, and CTS in black next to each other, and you'll notice that the CTS' color fade where others shine. Why black? it's the most neutral base color. I saw this months ago at the local Cadi dealer where an 08 CTS was parked next to a used 07 G35, both black. How do you explain that? I was baffled myself.
"R/T comparison rated CTS only slightly behind the G and 5series, which cost 12k more"
Uh, one question, why the 5? GM wants CTS to compete with the 3. If the 5 is the rival, then the STS and M must step up for the challenge. Is it because of size? If so you're basically saying that the STS should be compared to the likes of S-class and 750. Oh and along with Chrysler 300c too. GM doesnt make CTS larger to fight the 5er, GM makes it larger because they want the size to be an asset in the competition!!!
Also please remember that compared to the current value leaders in the 50k class, the Infiniti M and Audi A6, the CTS holds even weaker cards.
Question: pricewise, do you really think the CTS is a value player in its class??? At $40-41k for a CTS versus $36-37k for a comparably equipped G35, I dont think so.
I've said this before, the only major problem I have with the CTS is price. GM is getting way overconfident in this matter. Overpricing is not the proper way to crawl back to the top. Were it priced close to the G's 36k it'll be a great value, and all its shortcomings can be overlooked.
Perhaps it is useful to point out that the turbocharged 6 in the 5-series matches the performance of the 5-series V8. The turbo 6 has 300 lb-ft of torque from 1400 RPMs to 5000 RPMs. This gives any car with this engine a lot of torque, and performance will be quite good and hard to beat with a normal engine of any size.
Plus I want to see more reasonable pricing, thats for sure. But I agree though, a moderately equipped CTS is an ok deal.
Someone wrote here about the Bimmer being "Sport/Luxury" instead of "Luxury/Sport". Maybe the CTS is trying to be the "Luxury/Sport" car that is a little more sporty than usual.
The thing is, if you like to drive, the only tool Caddy had was the STS and NOW the CTS. Let's see what their small entrant will be. Hope it can BEAT the 3'er!
Regards,
OW
This is a subjective concept. For some people the DTS is now the ultimate car. I don't think Cadillac should try to build a car that is better than some BMW, but should instead build cars that together form a line up of vehicles that customers will want to buy. Trying to take BMW customers away from BMW is a waste. You, for example, are not likely to every buy anything else. You can say that you would, but your posts suggest to me that is as likely as lemko is to buy a BMW.
IT SURE IS, BROTHER!!!
I once got a DeVille "special edition???" (whatever it means, theyre the same right?), chauffeur included during my business trip to Boston (which was a relief as I knew absolutely nothing about Boston). The ride was smooth, so smooth I could fall asleep inside the car. I had a ride in a Towncar too (I think it was in Miami), smoother riding imo, but when turning the car leaned more than the cadi and the effect was somewhat nauseating. If I have to live through hellish traffic like those in NYC or Boston, I might settle for the matress on wheels too.
I found driving in NYC about the same, except you do have to yield and pedal to the metal at all times.
PRECISELY my point. And I'm one of them. These days, though I'm normally a free market guy, I think it's important to drive American if possible, and so I'm looking at Cadillacs and Lincolns to potentially replace my Lexus sometime in the next 11 months. Tried out an STS the other weekend.....was woefully disappointed, mostly due to the size, or lack thereof. I NEED a large sedan for business, and I LIKE a large car and mileage is secondary for me. The STS misses the mark by a mile. Presently, the DTS is the only possibility for me in the Cadillac stable, and the CTS is really off the mark. Course, that's just me.
NYC: Stop light drag races, indeed...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Regards,
OW
The kompressor AMG cars are depreciating as a whole by maybe 1K/month now...I suspect by the end of next year an 06 CLS55 will be able to be had for under 40K, especially with the upcoming facelift and the the 55 kompressor being discontinued.