except for Jack Lalane, anyone of that age is going to have a tough time getting into the 3rd row of just about any vehicle. why can't they sit in the 2nd row? carseats is my guess.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Yes, the 2 car seats are rear facing, and for infants. I am thinking of putting one in 2nd row and the other in 3rd, both left side (I tried the MDX entry system, only the right seat in 2nd row slides forward). Now the 2 occasional adults (grandparents) can sit one each in the 2nd and the 3rd row, watching over the babies. When they are not around, either the mom or the dad can sit in the 3rd row (right side) to keep an eye on both carseats, the other being the driver.
If the space between the 2nd row seats is sufficient for 1 person (and a carseat+baby) to slip thru, that would be ideal. Basically, I am planning for 1+1+2 or 2+2+2 seating.
Anyone has a better idea for seating configuration? Goal is not having to move the car seat bases too frequently. Thanks, - MS.
By the way, if you are considering a MDX, maybe you should look at the Audi Q7...it starts at $39k (same price as MDX).
You also have to be careful about car seats in the 3rd row: some CUVs don't have the anchors for the 3rd row (not the Latch system, but the actual anchors that tighten down the top of front-facing car seats).
I noticed a very wide price spread with the Outlook as well. I drove a model that was $29k and change, but it was FWD, cloth, pretty basic.
Visibility was pretty bad, the windows look big but the transparent portions are actually small. So I asked to see a model with AWD, NAV and backup cam, leather, captain's chairs, and suddenly we were at $42k. :surprise:
I have never understood the trend to put smaller openings behind the actual glass size. In some cases, it may have aided styling, but in many instances, it is just poor planning and design. Open those things up, designers!
Same here, I'm 5'6", sitting in the Outlook I've to be very careful in doing parallel parking and that gives you a bit anxirty while parking in busy streets.
With my Hemi Magnum, I don't need to see out back because I am faster than anyone else! On a serious note, the poor visibility does take getting used to.
Hi, I am in the market for a crossover SUV (7 passenger). I test-drove the Acadia and my right arm didn't know where to lean I currently drive a Toyota Sienna, which has an armrest that I find very comfortable. Do any of you know if the Mazda, Buick or Saturn have armrests?
I also checked out the Acura, Lexus, Toyota SUVs..the Acura was very comfy for me, but they have nerve saying there's a third row.
We're in the market for a car, and every time we pass a Magnum, my wife tells me how much she likes it. I then remind her of when we sat in one, where she couldn't see out very well. Repeat 1/mo....
loaded 07 Freestyle Limited will get you the best bang for your buck(less than $30k) and best real world mpg too(I've seen 30+mpg at a steady 65mph) and oh yeah... it has a great 3rd row. It's worth considering and if you aren't in snow country don't bother with AWD
Doesn't look like they do, unless it's an option on certain models? :confuse:
Pic:
I gotta say, I sat in all these at the NY Auto Show, and the seats that stood out as uber-comfy were the Veracruz':
Even though it doesn't have captain's chair-style arm rests, it does have glove-soft leather and very nicely padded arm rests. The seats (I'm talking just the seat comfort here) beat Acura, Mazda, Subaru, everybody, IMO.
Saw the new Saaturn lineup pics. They are simply awesome. Only one problem. Why are they not here now? Saturn needs to keep this styling moving, and these cars would bring floods of sales. Plus they would enhance the model linupe, with more to choose from like a truck derivitive of the Outlook. For all those complaining about costs, the article says the '11 Outlook's price will be lowered $1500, to better differentiate between all three Lambdas. Saturn's really stepping it up from a cheap "all I could afford company. But really, if the 2011 Outlook was here NOW, I'd get it before I get an Enclave any day. Though, we haven't seen the future Acadia/ Enclave yet...
But they lead they lead the CUV pack in NHSTA roll over testing regardless of ESP or not the last I checked so I would still consider it. With our FWD it has not been an issue in Chicago weather in the least and in light of all the other safety features its worth the test drive. I'd also ask if any of your present drives have it and if not why now??? just curious.
Still, if dollars factor into the equation, regardless of esp you are going to come out financially ahead with a FS.
The '08 taurus x is addressing that issue if that's a must though.
i have mixed feelings about 'esc'. for one thing, you have to trust it. in other words, be willing to make a manuever that maybe otherwise, you would not. i also think it will lead to bad 'natural handling' chassis design. 'we can make up for that with esc'. jmo. that being said, i have an explorer with 3 rows of seating. on trips, my kids like to sit in the 3rd row, folding up the 2nd row, for stretch out room. i can tell the difference in the handling though. there is a reason passenger compartments are mainly designed to hold the occupants between the front and rear axles.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I actually wish CUVs front rows were laid out more like minivans...without any center console and with the shifter on the dash. That would really free up room between the seats to access the 2nd row. You could have a fold down table between the front seats like in the Odyssey with cup holders and just have more storage areas in the dash area. And have the armrests.
And the same setup between the 2nd row captain chairs...a fold down table with cup holders that could be folded down for easier 3rd row access if needed.
"I actually wish CUVs front rows were laid out more like minivans...without any center console and with the shifter on the dash. That would really free up room between the seats to access the 2nd row. You could have a fold down table between the front seats like in the Odyssey with cup holders and just have more storage areas in the dash area. And have the armrests."
It's a bit too small for direct comparison here, but the Honda CR-V has a table (console is optional). But it only seats 5.
Check out the new 2008 Dodge & Chrylser vans with "swivel & go" seating. They have a table that goes between the 2nd and 3rd rows after you swivel the 2nd row 180 degrees to face the rear. Pretty slick.
Hi, I am in the market for a crossover SUV (7 passenger). I test-drove the Acadia and my right arm didn't know where to lean I currently drive a Toyota Sienna, which has an armrest that I find very comfortable. Do any of you know if the Mazda, Buick or Saturn have armrests?
I have a CX-9. Because the center console is fairly large, the padded top of it is in just the right location for me to rest my right elbow on it, and my left elbow on the door handle, and drive with a very comfortable hand position around 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock or so. It does not, however, have arm rests. But I have long arms and a long torso, so your seating position will certainly vary.
The freestyle is gone. It's now the Taurus X, with a more powerful engine, new transmission, improved suspension, standard side airbags, interior improvements, etc. It probably will still be the most carlike of the CUVs, and cheaper than the others mentioned. The new GM models are excellent, but far too heavy. The Taurus X will be faster and probably get better mileage.
"The freestyle is gone. It's now the Taurus X, with a more powerful engine, new transmission, improved suspension, standard side airbags, interior improvements, etc."
I'm aware that the Freestyle is being renamed the Taurus X. It is essentially the same vehicle. The main differences are the engine / transmission, addition of stability control, and front end styling. I rather doubt that the console is very different; it looks the same in the pictures I've seen. It is a recent Ford design characteristic that the consoles serve a dual function as an armrest.
Or do you know for certain that the Taurus X console will not work this way?
3 Enclaves arrived at the dealership yesterday, 2 are already sold! We went in for a test drive today. Here are the initial reactions:
- The vehicle is a tad too heavy (CX, FWD). It has 275HP engine, but didn't feel like it could corner/accelerate very well (compared to MDX), with 3 people inside (about 500lbs).
+ It is quite roomy, access to rear seat is great, you can even slide thru between the 2nd row seats. The 3rd row bench is elevated from the floor so adults can sit.
- Interior is not as whisper quiet as it says in the brochure. You can listen to the engine sound, and the driver has to raise voice to talk talk to 3rd row occupants.
+ The suspension is very comfortable. I am not sure if I want the stiffer one on the MDX. I felt it was softer than the Outlook, even though they should be the same.
- The trims and the instrument panel are good, but the ones in the MDX are classier. The enclave has 5 round gauges in the panel, which makes the space too cluttered.
+ Wood grain steering wheel is a nice touch, goes well with the interior decor. This model didn't have a backup camera, though. Or a navigation unit.
- Rear window and those quarter panels are small, not very good visibility. This is a major concern for me - as I tend to look back (turning my head, as opposed to looking at the mirrors) at least once before making a turn or a lane change.
+ Turning radius is surprisingly small, can make a U-turn on a 4-lane road. The steering feels connected to the road, too.
- This is not a vehicle drawback, but I was planning to have an aftermarket flip down DVD screen between the sunroof and sky-scape. The room is not enough for that.
Wife's comment - "It is indeed a good family hauler, and a good value for the utilities offered, but if you want a touch of luxury, go for the MDX. If/when we need to go on long road trips with 6 or 7 people, we can always rent a full size SUV or a minivan and not worry about space".
Think I am swinging back towards the MDX. Wonder how it will compare with the FS. But wait, no Xenon, no stabiliTrac! Nah, won't even test drive. Best wishes, - MS.
"I added navigation ($2,145), headlamp ($500) and sunroof ($1,300) packages, and the MSRP comes out to $40,050. This is the same reason I rejected Outlook a while back. It still doesn't have a rearview camera, and Enclave has the advantage of articulating head lamps (rotates 5-15deg with steering and speed), so I think it will lose the options war with Enclave."
The Enclave CXL seems to price out to just slightly above a similarly equipped high end Acadia SLT2. While the Enclave is slightly more expensive, it comes with a 4 year base warranty and some features not available on the Acadia like the articulating headlights and power adjustable tilt steering wheel. The base Enclave starts higher than the Outlook or Acadia, but when you start optioning the cars up and move off the base models, the prices quickly converge. I think you can make a strong case that high end Enclave is a slightly better value than a similarly equipped Acadia. In the end the difference is negligible and it really comes down to taste in styling and the different ride tuning between the Buick and GMC. I decided on the Acadia SLT2 as I liked the more aggressive lines of the GMC vs. the more rounded lines of the Buick.
By the way, if you are considering a MDX, maybe you should look at the Audi Q7...it starts at $39k (same price as MDX).
Hi nxs138: I took your suggestion and looked at the Audi. On the audiusa web site, non of the 4 variants of Q7 come with leather upholstery or Xenon headlamps - thus a no-go for me. I guess if I add all the options/packages to make it comparable to the MDX Tech/Ent, it will be substantially more expensive. Thank you for the suggestion. Best wishes, - MS.
"Think I am swinging back towards the MDX. Wonder how it will compare with the FS. But wait, no Xenon, no stabiliTrac! Nah, won't even test drive. Best wishes, - MS."
Just think, get the FS and you'll have A LOT of money left over for driver's school(to make up for one's lack of driving talent necessitating ESP not that the rest of us needed it) and glasses(so you can see with those inferior halogens)& lets not forget better real world mpg just for giggles in the land of almost $4/gal. gas.
kidding, just kidding...best to you as well & thanks for the insight...
What are you really getting when you pay $40k vs $30k for these CUVs?? I'd want to keep the purchase below $30k, but wonder what I'm missing compared to those paying over $10k more.
Ha Ha Ha- ohhh you guys crack me up! Now that the little joke fest is over, back to the REAL discussion. :P Was the Enclave an improvement over the others in your oppinion? When I sat in it, the only differences were cosmetics. I have one suggestion- And this one's gonna kill all you bigger isn't better greenies out there- slap 40-50 more hp in that V6 engine! It'll help a lot of differentiation.
Was the Enclave an improvement over the others in your opinion?
OK, couple of serious points for real discussion:
(1) If you can slap on just 25-30 additional HP's and trim down 250-300lbs (and sacrifice some 3rd row space), that is what gets you the Acura MDX. Of course, you pay for the luxury brand name, too.
(2) Comparing the Enclave with the others on the list:
CX-9: Enclave is quieter, but doesnt have the zoom-zoom for power or handling. The CX-9 GT model has 19" wheels.
VC: Enclave is more spacious but VC has better console design (Lexus copy) (I didn't test drive it, no Xenon).
Pilot: Enclave is so much less boxy, and has bigger wheels. However, Pilot has shift lever on steering column - more space between the front seats. No Xenon for Pilot, either.
Between the lambda's, it's a matter of personal taste. IMO, Enclave has a more subdued, accommodating look, even looks smaller and rounded with all the curves. Acadia and Outlook have a more muscular, aggressive stance. Somehow I felt Outlook has better visibility, and a lot more space inside the cabin.
Freestyle: Didn't look or test-drive, so no comments.
There, I covered every vehicle on the list! Best regards, - MS.
What are you really getting when you pay $40k vs $30k for these CUVs?? I'd want to keep the purchase below $30k, but wonder what I'm missing compared to those paying over $10k more.
Give or take a few $100's from each item to average out, depending on the Mfr (note: every mfr. doesn't offer all of these). This is not for any particular car, just my estimate from recent experience in car shopping:
(1) Wheel diameter 1" more: $500 (2) Leather seating surface: $1500 (3) Heated front seats: $500 (4) Heated 2nd row seats: $500 (5) Heated side mirrors: $500 (6) Remote vehicle starter: $500 (7) Sun/moon roof: $1500 (8) Xenon headlamps: $700 (9) Auto leveling or turning: $500 (10) Roof rails: $500 (11) In dash 6 CD changer: $500 (12) Premium sound system: $500 (13) Back up camera: $500 (14) Navigation system: $2000 (15) DVD entertainment: $1800 (16) All wheel drive: $1500
Total: $14000
Which CUV are you looking to buy? Please keep us posted about your decision making process. Best wishes, - MS.
I guess I can get the cheaper ones, since I'm not interested in most of the below stuff.
(1) Wheel diameter 1" more: $500 NOT INTERESTED (2) Leather seating surface: $1500 NOT INTERESTED (3) Heated front seats: $500 NOT INTERESTED (4) Heated 2nd row seats: $500 NOT INTERESTED (5) Heated side mirrors: $500 standard on most (6) Remote vehicle starter: $500 NOT INTERESTED (7) Sun/moon roof: $1500 NOT INTERESTED (8) Xenon headlamps: $700 (9) Auto leveling or turning: $500 ????????? (10) Roof rails: $500 standard on most (11) In dash 6 CD changer: $500 NOT INTERESTED (12) Premium sound system: $500 NOT INTERESTED (13) Back up camera: $500 NOT INTERESTED (14) Navigation system: $2000 NOT INTERESTED (15) DVD entertainment: $1800 NOT INTERESTED (I'll use individual ones for each kid) (16) All wheel drive: $1500 NOT INTERESTED
"Cheaper ones?" Heck, it sounds like you could get by with an '84 4Runner with a 4 cylinder... I could get you one of those for much less than $30K, even.
Comments
why can't they sit in the 2nd row? carseats is my guess.
If the space between the 2nd row seats is sufficient for 1 person (and a carseat+baby) to slip thru, that would be ideal. Basically, I am planning for 1+1+2 or 2+2+2 seating.
Anyone has a better idea for seating configuration? Goal is not having to move the car seat bases too frequently. Thanks, - MS.
It's a wonder any of us are alive these days, I guess.
You also have to be careful about car seats in the 3rd row: some CUVs don't have the anchors for the 3rd row (not the Latch system, but the actual anchors that tighten down the top of front-facing car seats).
Old Jack LaLanne will turn 92 this September and still looks fit as a fiddle!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Visibility was pretty bad, the windows look big but the transparent portions are actually small. So I asked to see a model with AWD, NAV and backup cam, leather, captain's chairs, and suddenly we were at $42k. :surprise:
I also checked out the Acura, Lexus, Toyota SUVs..the Acura was very comfy for me, but they have nerve saying there's a third row.
Thanks in advance!
Doesn't look like they do, unless it's an option on certain models? :confuse:
Pic:
I gotta say, I sat in all these at the NY Auto Show, and the seats that stood out as uber-comfy were the Veracruz':
Even though it doesn't have captain's chair-style arm rests, it does have glove-soft leather and very nicely padded arm rests. The seats (I'm talking just the seat comfort here) beat Acura, Mazda, Subaru, everybody, IMO.
the Acura was very comfy for me, but they have nerve saying there's a third row.
They have nerve charging almost 50grand for a well equipped one, too. :P
Still, if dollars factor into the equation, regardless of esp you are going to come out financially ahead with a FS.
The '08 taurus x is addressing that issue if that's a must though.
my $.02
that being said, i have an explorer with 3 rows of seating.
on trips, my kids like to sit in the 3rd row, folding up the 2nd row, for stretch out room. i can tell the difference in the handling though. there is a reason passenger compartments are mainly designed to hold the occupants between the front and rear axles.
And the same setup between the 2nd row captain chairs...a fold down table with cup holders that could be folded down for easier 3rd row access if needed.
Doesn't look like they do, unless it's an option on certain models?"
The top of the Freestyle Console is at the perfect height for use as an armrest. I use it all the time.
It's a bit too small for direct comparison here, but the Honda CR-V has a table (console is optional). But it only seats 5.
I have a CX-9. Because the center console is fairly large, the padded top of it is in just the right location for me to rest my right elbow on it, and my left elbow on the door handle, and drive with a very comfortable hand position around 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock or so. It does not, however, have arm rests. But I have long arms and a long torso, so your seating position will certainly vary.
I'm aware that the Freestyle is being renamed the Taurus X. It is essentially the same vehicle. The main differences are the engine / transmission, addition of stability control, and front end styling. I rather doubt that the console is very different; it looks the same in the pictures I've seen. It is a recent Ford design characteristic that the consoles serve a dual function as an armrest.
Or do you know for certain that the Taurus X console will not work this way?
- The vehicle is a tad too heavy (CX, FWD). It has 275HP engine, but didn't feel like it could corner/accelerate very well (compared to MDX), with 3 people inside (about 500lbs).
+ It is quite roomy, access to rear seat is great, you can even slide thru between the 2nd row seats. The 3rd row bench is elevated from the floor so adults can sit.
- Interior is not as whisper quiet as it says in the brochure. You can listen to the engine sound, and the driver has to raise voice to talk talk to 3rd row occupants.
+ The suspension is very comfortable. I am not sure if I want the stiffer one on the MDX. I felt it was softer than the Outlook, even though they should be the same.
- The trims and the instrument panel are good, but the ones in the MDX are classier. The enclave has 5 round gauges in the panel, which makes the space too cluttered.
+ Wood grain steering wheel is a nice touch, goes well with the interior decor. This model didn't have a backup camera, though. Or a navigation unit.
- Rear window and those quarter panels are small, not very good visibility. This is a major concern for me - as I tend to look back (turning my head, as opposed to looking at the mirrors) at least once before making a turn or a lane change.
+ Turning radius is surprisingly small, can make a U-turn on a 4-lane road. The steering feels connected to the road, too.
- This is not a vehicle drawback, but I was planning to have an aftermarket flip down DVD screen between the sunroof and sky-scape. The room is not enough for that.
Wife's comment - "It is indeed a good family hauler, and a good value for the utilities offered, but if you want a touch of luxury, go for the MDX. If/when we need to go on long road trips with 6 or 7 people, we can always rent a full size SUV or a minivan and not worry about space".
Think I am swinging back towards the MDX. Wonder how it will compare with the FS. But wait, no Xenon, no stabiliTrac! Nah, won't even test drive. Best wishes, - MS.
The Enclave CXL seems to price out to just slightly above a similarly equipped high end Acadia SLT2. While the Enclave is slightly more expensive, it comes with a 4 year base warranty and some features not available on the Acadia like the articulating headlights and power adjustable tilt steering wheel. The base Enclave starts higher than the Outlook or Acadia, but when you start optioning the cars up and move off the base models, the prices quickly converge. I think you can make a strong case that high end Enclave is a slightly better value than a similarly equipped Acadia. In the end the difference is negligible and it really comes down to taste in styling and the different ride tuning between the Buick and GMC. I decided on the Acadia SLT2 as I liked the more aggressive lines of the GMC vs. the more rounded lines of the Buick.
Hi nxs138:
I took your suggestion and looked at the Audi. On the audiusa web site, non of the 4 variants of Q7 come with leather upholstery or Xenon headlamps - thus a no-go for me. I guess if I add all the options/packages to make it comparable to the MDX Tech/Ent, it will be substantially more expensive. Thank you for the suggestion. Best wishes, - MS.
Just think, get the FS and you'll have A LOT of money left over for driver's school(to make up for one's lack of driving talent necessitating ESP not that the rest of us needed it) and glasses(so you can see with those inferior halogens)& lets not forget better real world mpg just for giggles in the land of almost $4/gal. gas.
kidding, just kidding...best to you as well & thanks for the insight...
Sure they are, because each is more or less important to each individual, and thus worth (or not worth) a certain price.
OK, couple of serious points for real discussion:
(1) If you can slap on just 25-30 additional HP's and trim down 250-300lbs (and sacrifice some 3rd row space), that is what gets you the Acura MDX. Of course, you pay for the luxury brand name, too.
(2) Comparing the Enclave with the others on the list:
CX-9: Enclave is quieter, but doesnt have the zoom-zoom for power or handling. The CX-9 GT model has 19" wheels.
VC: Enclave is more spacious but VC has better console design (Lexus copy) (I didn't test drive it, no Xenon).
Pilot: Enclave is so much less boxy, and has bigger wheels. However, Pilot has shift lever on steering column - more space between the front seats. No Xenon for Pilot, either.
Between the lambda's, it's a matter of personal taste. IMO, Enclave has a more subdued, accommodating look, even looks smaller and rounded with all the curves. Acadia and Outlook have a more muscular, aggressive stance. Somehow I felt Outlook has better visibility, and a lot more space inside the cabin.
Freestyle: Didn't look or test-drive, so no comments.
There, I covered every vehicle on the list! Best regards, - MS.
Give or take a few $100's from each item to average out, depending on the Mfr (note: every mfr. doesn't offer all of these). This is not for any particular car, just my estimate from recent experience in car shopping:
(1) Wheel diameter 1" more: $500
(2) Leather seating surface: $1500
(3) Heated front seats: $500
(4) Heated 2nd row seats: $500
(5) Heated side mirrors: $500
(6) Remote vehicle starter: $500
(7) Sun/moon roof: $1500
(8) Xenon headlamps: $700
(9) Auto leveling or turning: $500
(10) Roof rails: $500
(11) In dash 6 CD changer: $500
(12) Premium sound system: $500
(13) Back up camera: $500
(14) Navigation system: $2000
(15) DVD entertainment: $1800
(16) All wheel drive: $1500
Total: $14000
Which CUV are you looking to buy? Please keep us posted about your decision making process. Best wishes, - MS.
FS limited has - (2) Leather seating surface: $1500
FS limited has - (3) Heated front seats: $500
(4) Heated 2nd row seats: $500
FS limited has - (5) Heated side mirrors: $500
FS limited has(option) - (6) Remote vehicle starter: $500
FS limited has - (7) Sun/moon roof: $1500
(8) Xenon headlamps: $700
FS limited has(AWD) - (9) Auto leveling or turning: $500
FS limited has - (10) Roof rails: $500
FS limited has - (11) In dash 6 CD changer: $500
FS limited has - (12) Premium sound system: $500
(13) Back up camera: $500
FS limited has(option) - (14) Navigation system: $2000
FS limited has(option) - (15) DVD entertainment: $1800
FS limited has(option) - (16) All wheel drive: $1500
(17)ANY OTHER NAME BUT Freestyle = $12,300+/-
Yet another comparison for what a value the FS is...
again, kidding...
(1) Wheel diameter 1" more: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(2) Leather seating surface: $1500 NOT INTERESTED
(3) Heated front seats: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(4) Heated 2nd row seats: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(5) Heated side mirrors: $500 standard on most
(6) Remote vehicle starter: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(7) Sun/moon roof: $1500 NOT INTERESTED
(8) Xenon headlamps: $700
(9) Auto leveling or turning: $500 ?????????
(10) Roof rails: $500 standard on most
(11) In dash 6 CD changer: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(12) Premium sound system: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(13) Back up camera: $500 NOT INTERESTED
(14) Navigation system: $2000 NOT INTERESTED
(15) DVD entertainment: $1800 NOT INTERESTED (I'll use individual ones for each kid)
(16) All wheel drive: $1500 NOT INTERESTED