Not sure how you'd disconnect in on a hydrolic clutch setup, on my cable controlled XT6 it was just one bolt to disconnect it. The previous owner had done that on mine.
Thanks for the info. I can see where this board is going to be a great help. I've got the XS model with the 6 disc set-up, not sure what the power is 40-80? Let me know someone. Just want to get a little better sound out of this system.
I went with an aftermarket sound system on my '01 Forester, including a Pioneer AM/FM/CD headunit, MB Quart speakers (components in front - including tweeters, and co-ax in the rear), a Clarion under-seat subwoofer and an Eclipse amp, and it sounds really great. I had the 6 CD headunit from the Forester installed in my wife's '02 Outback, along with the Subaru premium speakers, tweeters and subwoofer. This system is a notch or two below the aftermarket setup, but still sounds really good. Definitely a BIG improvement over the stock speakers and AM/FM cassette that came in the OB. Plus, it cost about a third as much as the aftermarket setup.
Based on my experience with these two different systems, if I were doing it again, I'd probably go with the stock Forester 6 CD headunit, the Subaru subwoofer, and aftermarket door speakers and tweeters.
...but the threaded discussion board format has been around for quite a long time. I don't know why anyone would think it that much different (or less functional) than this conversational setup. My idea of a conversation is finding someone I want to talk to about a particular issue/problem. If anything, this is less like a conversation than a Q&A that you can't leave when the discussion wanders. Sort of like those computer classes where you have really technical questions to ask the instructor but have to wait for the computer noob to finishing asking why they call it HTML. ;-)
Millions of messages, huh? And not a single way to sort them or search them. ;-) Conversational indeed. LOL!
I want my Forester mouse so I can browse some threaded discussion boards elsewhere. How do I get one?!
...and it's a shame they won't just leave these messages as an archive and move to a friendly format. Oh well.
I want a silver mouse with gray leather to match my year-old Forester, but all I get are survey forms
I want a metal front skid plate too, but I can get that aftermarket since Subaru doesn't care enough to come up with one. Would it kill them to stock an aftermarket - or order one?
Fall surf fishing season is coming up soon and I will be ready. That gives me until, oh, Thanksgiving.
John
P.S. - Hey. Maybe the dealer has a mouse for sale. I'm taking the 'ster in tomorrow.
This is actually a pretty elegant and user-friendly bit of engineering. When the car is pointing uphill with both the clutch pedal and brake pedal depressed, it keeps the brake pedal (ratchet-fashion) engaged until the clutch is released: obviating the need for a third leg. If you decide you want to roll back down the hill all you need to do is put it in neutral and take your foot off the clutch. FWIW, I loved my hill-holder (92 Legacy) just because it was neat, but I've always preferred to use the handbrake on steep hill-stops (better control). YetAnotherDave
The '87 model I drove had this feature. With mine, you had to push down hard on the brake, otherwise it did not engage. If you used medium pressure on the brake, the "hold" did not happen. This kept it from being intrusive. Don't know if that is the case with newer designs.
FWIW, I hardly ever used it, but still think it's a great feature. Once you learn how to move your feet properly, it's not a problem. But I do think it's good for anyone learning to drive a stick.
Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions - without this discussion board, I would have been lost!!!
Patty, I contacted 1-800-SUBARU3, opened a case, and the dealer provided a rental car today. So far, they have not been able to replicate the problems I had. I had a long discussion with the Service Manager today (who was not involved before now.)
Since nothing shows up in the computer diagnostics and road testing, they suspect it was a heavy fuel mix since the car hadn't been driven much. The Service Manager is driving my car home tonight and then back to work tomorrow to see if he encounters any of the problems I had.
I have had an Outback with the hill holder for three years. Works well after an initial learning period for the driver. It's real benefit is for getting away at lights uphill. Melbourne is a hilly city, although not San Francisco steep, so I get to use it frequently.
It's definitely a plus. Parking is no problem at all after the first couple of experiments.
I don't know if this was previously posted here. It provides the most detailed description of the Japanese spec 2003 NA 2l and 2l Turbo Forester that I have seen, so far.
The turbo gets AVCS, then. That ought to make it here. They say 20-30% more "driver experienced torque", which I guess means more torque below 4000 rpm or so.
Sounds like the automatic gets throttle-by-wire? They say it's electronically controlled.
The brakes have to be a typo. How could you git 16" brakes inside a 16" rim and still get the calipers around them?
Turbo gets VDC! And I guess the VTD AWD goes with it.
My sore back would enjoy that TransCare Wing Seat right about now. I doubt the DOT would let that fly here, though.
Check out those packages at the end. They could offer something like that in the US, let me adjust them to my tastes a little:
Field package: dual range, factory skid plates, auxiliary lighting, tranny and engine oil coolers for heavy duty use, water proof seats and self-leveling suspension.
Cruising package: DVD and HIDs? Leave it as-is.
Dang, they really get all the good stuff. And this stuff is coming off the shelves folks!
Let's let SoA know which things we really want, and which ones we don't, so the price isn't too ridiculous. What do you want to see made standard, a-la-carte optional, or not at all?
AVCS: standard on ALL subies. VTD: phased in to be the only AWD system offered. VDC: optional but offered as a stand-alone option. TransCare Wing Seat: sounds fun, but I'll pass. Momo wheel: pass, the OE wheel is fine. dual range: available on the rough road model skid plates: ditto self leveling suspension: I'll pass given the replacement cost of the air bladders water proof seats: again pass, you can get seat covers for that DVD: maybe as a stand-alone option HIDs: optional on turbo and premium models
I'd like to see the self-leveling rear suspension, and I'd like to see an optional NAV system (NOT OnStar!).
I'd also like to see five larger 225/60 BLACKWALL(!) tires. Better still, make 'em 235/60x16 on 7" wide rims (same size used on Rav4 and Grand Vitara).
I'm guessing they measure brakes a different way in Japan. I've seen 16" brakes on 16" rims listed on their official spec sheets for the Forester, WRX and Legacy.
Bob- I think 235/60 is a little bit of overkill for a mini-ute. The 225/60 would be a good compromise between handling/traction and rolling resistance/gas mileage.
I'm sort of with Bob on this one. My fear is that they use plastic push bars and ROWL tires to make it seem more rugged, instead of using real skid plates and a low range.
Those things pad the price (and profits) but don't serve any function except perhaps cosmetic.
Same goes with the Momo steering wheel, that's fine but honestly the OE steering wheels are also just fine. Not to mention if you're gonna go all-out and pay the big bucks, please make it a THREE spoke steering wheel, as all sports cars get, not four. File that one under the DOH column.
I'm on a roll. What other cosmetics could we do without?
The vinyl inserts in the seats. All cloth is better. At least they use quality vinyl, the stuff on the CR-V looks much worse (though I've heard they changed interior colors and I suspect that's why). But give us all cloth/velour please.
Current 2003 Forester owners: What does everyone think about the new Yokohama Geolander G900's on the new Foresters?
I have found that aside from being mostly quiet and smooth, mine tend to squeal way too easily during MEDIUM braking and cornering. For example, if I make a last minute decision to stop at a yellow light, they'll squeal lightly. I'm not talking slamming on my brakes here, just moderate braking. The same goes for taking a 90 degree turn at 20 or so MPH, or turning tightly in a parking lot.
Of course I checked my tire pressure, and all 4 are within specs (I keep them between 28 and 32 psi).
I had my dealer check the alignment and he said it's fine, but I think they only test drove it, because he had said they don't do the actual alignmnents on-site.
My 1999 Forester L with the Bridgestone Dueler H/T's nor the top-rated replacements Dueler H/L's I had on it squealed like this.
The service manager explained that the Geolander's rubber is softer and tackier, so it makes more noise when turning.
I don't think the squealing should be there under the circumstances you mention.
Try increasing the tire pressure to at least 32psi front and back. When I set my Geolandar HTs to the recommended pressures of 28/26psi, I found that they would squeal constantly. Increasing the pressure to 32psi all around not only got rid of the noise, but it also improved handling as well.
Also, how many miles do you have on your G900s? Brand new tires require a break-in period and the noise may just go away with time.
Eps105- Idahodoug is right, softer and tackier rubber should squeal less, not more. In any case, they shouldn't be squealing under normal braking.
Ken- That strikes me as counter-intuitive. Increasing the tire pressure shrinks the contact patch and should make the tires break free sooner, not later.
Ken - I actually do try to keep them at 32 psi, and that's exactly what they've been, since I've had tons of auto mechanics tell me to go a little above the mfr. recommendations. They say it will improve mileage and will not cause uneven wear, so that's where I keep it. I think the mfr. recommendations are only meant to optimize a softer ride.
I have exactly 2000 miles on my car and the squealing has been about the same since I can remember. (I never noticed it at first because I literally had my awesome Subaru 6-disc premium audio system cranked up all the time!)
IdahoDoug - I thought the same thing - that softer tires would squeal less - but think about a nice, new pair of sneakers on a hard floor. Especially if they're a little wet... they squeak squeak squeak! Harder rubber tends to slip rather than grab. So I think the dealer was right. I just don't buy it that's "normal".
Juice - I see your point, but the squeal is coming WAY before I would expect the tires to give out. It is too premature to feel like feedback unless these tires have terrible traction!
Frank P.: When the dealer gave it back to me yesterday, they said they reset the tire pressure to "recommended levels". Out of curiosity, I just checked to see what they set it at and guess what? -- 31 psi all the way around!
Maybe I'll take the pressure down to 28 and see if it makes a difference, but I doubt it.
I have with larger tires, is that a full-size spare may not fit, as the spare tire well is currently designed. The Outback has that problem. In all other markets it comes with 215/60x16 tires—5 of them!
Elliot- I don't think you can compare sneakers and tires. It's certainly been my experience that softer rubber holds the road better allowing you to corner faster. In any case, perhaps you're just pushing the envelope more since the 03 has better tires & suspension than your 99 L :-)
is AVCS the same as VTEC on Honda's (well, applied to H- vs V-config of course)? I think VTEC has something to do with variable valve timing as well, not so?
I think the acronym stands for advanced valve control system. It is like VTEC but only on the intake valves.
And you are correct to think that it's application is more complicated in a boxer engine vs. an in-line 4, because there are twice as many camshafts on the boxer (all other things being equal).
I say may rear disc brakes standard even on the standard X model. The Santa Fe and CR-V both have them (but not ABS, oddly). Better brakes might make them less shy about stating towing capacities.
I picked up my new 2003 silver XS (again) today...after 50 miles of computer testing and test driving, the dealer could still not replicate the problem I had when I first picked the car up. Best explanation seems to be condensation or too rich a mixture that caused the stalling.
So far, the car runs like a top - just the way I expected it too! I really hope that this was the problem - something minor!
Patti, thanks for suggesting I get a case number, etc. This way, there's a record incase anything else squirrely happens in the future.
To the person considering buying from Gillman, I think they did a good job of following through with working with me and testing. I am satisfied with the deal I got from Car Bargains and with the follow up I have received from Milton Burts (internet sales mgr) and the folks in the service dept. (I also appreciate SoA's involvement.) Good luck on your new car!
By the way, I happened to pick the car up just as a big storm and strong winds came up here in Houston (tornado & flood warnings.) I enjoyed the solid ride and weatherband radio all the way home. Such a difference from my Celica...
Synthia, Did you think that maybe you got bad gas? However if no new gas was put in and the dealer couldn't replicate the problem it is sure strange. Anyway just thought you may have changed gas stations. Gene
Glad to hear your Forester is back on the road again. I hope it was just a temporary fuel problem. My wife just got a silver XS/prem too, and she really loves it. I got to take the car out for a spin tonight on some back roads, and must have been grinning the whole time.
we do use our weatherband feature on our 03x soob it's probably a carryover from using it on my truck, which is a feature on my cb. i fish, so i am sensitive to the weather particularly.
BTW, we now have 2600 miles on Charlie, our red '03 forester. so far great! only one problem, the fan makes all kinds of noise like something is stuck in it. And if you set it to setting 3 or 4 it sounds like the whole front dashboard is gonna shake loose........ Anyone else with 03 soob's have this prob??
otherwise cool car, seems tight, handles great. Much better than that crappy review recently reflected (in C&D or a similar mag??)
I took my '03 Forester into the dealer for what I thought would be its first oil change. Based on what I've read on Edmunds, it's good (although not absolutely necessary) to change the oil in a new car early due to particles from the new engine.
The service adviser strongly discouraged me from changing the oil at 1500 miles. He said that the oil that's in the car now is the best oil that it will ever have in it, and that it should not be changed until 3750 miles. In addition, he was against the idea of changing to synthetic which I had planned to do immediately.
He explained that changing to synthetic at 1500 miles could cause the engine to burn oil and smoke, and that if I really wanted to change to synthetic, it shouldn't be done until 12,000 miles--although he would feel better about doing it at 3750 rather than 1500. He was not a fan of synthetic, period.
So now I'm confused. Opinions? I used Mobil 1 in my Celica for years, but I did not switch to it before I had several thousand miles on the vehicle.
That's a new one. Can anyone belive what service advisors say? I'd like to see the documented cases of this happening. Ask that guy why cars like Corvette and Mercedes come with Mobil 1 when they are brand new. And when's the last time you saw a brand new car shooting out smoke? I did wait until 10,000 miles to switch over to Mobil 1 on my Outback, but that's only because I got sick of taking it to Jiffy Lube where they would spill oil all over the engine and decided it was easier (and cheaper) to do it myself.
Comments
-mike
Thanks for the info. I can see where this board is going to be a great help. I've got the XS model with the 6 disc set-up, not sure what the power is 40-80? Let me know someone. Just want to get a little better sound out of this system.
Based on my experience with these two different systems, if I were doing it again, I'd probably go with the stock Forester 6 CD headunit, the Subaru subwoofer, and aftermarket door speakers and tweeters.
Len
Millions of messages, huh? And not a single way to sort them or search them. ;-) Conversational indeed. LOL!
I want my Forester mouse so I can browse some threaded discussion boards elsewhere. How do I get one?!
Thanks,
burnsmr4
I want a silver mouse with gray leather to match my year-old Forester, but all I get are survey forms
I want a metal front skid plate too, but I can get that aftermarket since Subaru doesn't care enough to come up with one. Would it kill them to stock an aftermarket - or order one?
Fall surf fishing season is coming up soon and I will be ready. That gives me until, oh, Thanksgiving.
John
P.S. - Hey. Maybe the dealer has a mouse for sale. I'm taking the 'ster in tomorrow.
YetAnotherDave
FWIW, I hardly ever used it, but still think it's a great feature. Once you learn how to move your feet properly, it's not a problem. But I do think it's good for anyone learning to drive a stick.
Patty, I contacted 1-800-SUBARU3, opened a case, and the dealer provided a rental car today. So far, they have not been able to replicate the problems I had. I had a long discussion with the Service Manager today (who was not involved before now.)
Since nothing shows up in the computer diagnostics and road testing, they suspect it was a heavy fuel mix since the car hadn't been driven much. The Service Manager is driving my car home tonight and then back to work tomorrow to see if he encounters any of the problems I had.
I'll keep y'all informed on this.
Thanks,
synthia
I have had an Outback with the hill holder for three years. Works well after an initial learning period for the driver. It's real benefit is for getting away at lights uphill. Melbourne is a hilly city, although not San Francisco steep, so I get to use it frequently.
It's definitely a plus. Parking is no problem at all after the first couple of experiments.
Cheers
Graham
I like to be able to increase the font size on a page. The drop down box on the upper right makes it so easy--just select the percentage!
I'll hang onto those surveys until I receive my mouse.
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/news/press/2002/02_02_12b.htm
- D
The turbo gets AVCS, then. That ought to make it here. They say 20-30% more "driver experienced torque", which I guess means more torque below 4000 rpm or so.
Sounds like the automatic gets throttle-by-wire? They say it's electronically controlled.
The brakes have to be a typo. How could you git 16" brakes inside a 16" rim and still get the calipers around them?
Turbo gets VDC! And I guess the VTD AWD goes with it.
My sore back would enjoy that TransCare Wing Seat right about now. I doubt the DOT would let that fly here, though.
Check out those packages at the end. They could offer something like that in the US, let me adjust them to my tastes a little:
Euro package: momo wheel, leather shift knob, bigger sway bars, 16"x7" alloys, turbo engine.
Field package: dual range, factory skid plates, auxiliary lighting, tranny and engine oil coolers for heavy duty use, water proof seats and self-leveling suspension.
Cruising package: DVD and HIDs? Leave it as-is.
Dang, they really get all the good stuff. And this stuff is coming off the shelves folks!
-juice
Juice- Seat pillows are actually the rear seat cushions which are height adjustable (nice touch).
-Frank P.
just go over to the Future Models II discussion!
:-)
-Brian
AVCS: standard on ALL subies.
VTD: phased in to be the only AWD system offered.
VDC: optional but offered as a stand-alone option.
TransCare Wing Seat: sounds fun, but I'll pass.
Momo wheel: pass, the OE wheel is fine.
dual range: available on the rough road model
skid plates: ditto
self leveling suspension: I'll pass given the replacement cost of the air bladders
water proof seats: again pass, you can get seat covers for that
DVD: maybe as a stand-alone option
HIDs: optional on turbo and premium models
What do you folks think?
-juice
I'd like to see the self-leveling rear suspension, and I'd like to see an optional NAV system (NOT OnStar!).
I'd also like to see five larger 225/60 BLACKWALL(!) tires. Better still, make 'em 235/60x16 on 7" wide rims (same size used on Rav4 and Grand Vitara).
Bob
I'm guessing they measure brakes a different way in Japan. I've seen 16" brakes on 16" rims listed on their official spec sheets for the Forester, WRX and Legacy.
Ken
Bob: us owners can always get bigger tires. Maybe Subaru could give us more clearance, though.
-juice
-Frank P.
P.S. I happen to like the RWOL look.
Those things pad the price (and profits) but don't serve any function except perhaps cosmetic.
Same goes with the Momo steering wheel, that's fine but honestly the OE steering wheels are also just fine. Not to mention if you're gonna go all-out and pay the big bucks, please make it a THREE spoke steering wheel, as all sports cars get, not four. File that one under the DOH column.
I'm on a roll. What other cosmetics could we do without?
The vinyl inserts in the seats. All cloth is better. At least they use quality vinyl, the stuff on the CR-V looks much worse (though I've heard they changed interior colors and I suspect that's why). But give us all cloth/velour please.
The AWD badges on the sides aren't necessary.
Any one think of others?
-juice
I have found that aside from being mostly quiet and smooth, mine tend to squeal way too easily during MEDIUM braking and cornering. For example, if I make a last minute decision to stop at a yellow light, they'll squeal lightly. I'm not talking slamming on my brakes here, just moderate braking. The same goes for taking a 90 degree turn at 20 or so MPH, or turning tightly in a parking lot.
Of course I checked my tire pressure, and all 4 are within specs (I keep them between 28 and 32 psi).
I had my dealer check the alignment and he said it's fine, but I think they only test drove it, because he had said they don't do the actual alignmnents on-site.
My 1999 Forester L with the Bridgestone Dueler H/T's nor the top-rated replacements Dueler H/L's I had on it squealed like this.
The service manager explained that the Geolander's rubber is softer and tackier, so it makes more noise when turning.
Does anyone buy this?
I suspect that in reality the rest of the car is more refined, and quieter, so that tire noise now just stands out more.
-juice
IdahoDoug
Try increasing the tire pressure to at least 32psi front and back. When I set my Geolandar HTs to the recommended pressures of 28/26psi, I found that they would squeal constantly. Increasing the pressure to 32psi all around not only got rid of the noise, but it also improved handling as well.
Also, how many miles do you have on your G900s? Brand new tires require a break-in period and the noise may just go away with time.
Ken
Ken- That strikes me as counter-intuitive. Increasing the tire pressure shrinks the contact patch and should make the tires break free sooner, not later.
-Frank P.
Ken - I actually do try to keep them at 32 psi, and that's exactly what they've been, since I've had tons of auto mechanics tell me to go a little above the mfr. recommendations. They say it will improve mileage and will not cause uneven wear, so that's where I keep it. I think the mfr. recommendations are only meant to optimize a softer ride.
I have exactly 2000 miles on my car and the squealing has been about the same since I can remember. (I never noticed it at first because I literally had my awesome Subaru 6-disc premium audio system cranked up all the time!)
IdahoDoug - I thought the same thing - that softer tires would squeal less - but think about a nice, new pair of sneakers on a hard floor. Especially if they're a little wet... they squeak squeak squeak! Harder rubber tends to slip rather than grab. So I think the dealer was right. I just don't buy it that's "normal".
Juice - I see your point, but the squeal is coming WAY before I would expect the tires to give out. It is too premature to feel like feedback unless these tires have terrible traction!
Thanks all,
Elliot
Maybe I'll take the pressure down to 28 and see if it makes a difference, but I doubt it.
Elliot
Bob
-juice
-Frank P.
On... your... list... of... requirements... no mention of INCREASED TOWING for Subarus! How come?
And you are correct to think that it's application is more complicated in a boxer engine vs. an in-line 4, because there are twice as many camshafts on the boxer (all other things being equal).
I say may rear disc brakes standard even on the standard X model. The Santa Fe and CR-V both have them (but not ABS, oddly). Better brakes might make them less shy about stating towing capacities.
-juice
Actually, both too high or too low a tire pressure will minimize the contact patch:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_pressure4.lasso
Ken
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Bob
I picked up my new 2003 silver XS (again) today...after 50 miles of computer testing and test driving, the dealer could still not replicate the problem I had when I first picked the car up. Best explanation seems to be condensation or too rich a mixture that caused the stalling.
So far, the car runs like a top - just the way I expected it too! I really hope that this was the problem - something minor!
Patti, thanks for suggesting I get a case number, etc. This way, there's a record incase anything else squirrely happens in the future.
To the person considering buying from Gillman, I think they did a good job of following through with working with me and testing. I am satisfied with the deal I got from Car Bargains and with the follow up I have received from Milton Burts (internet sales mgr) and the folks in the service dept. (I also appreciate SoA's involvement.) Good luck on your new car!
By the way, I happened to pick the car up just as a big storm and strong winds came up here in Houston (tornado & flood warnings.) I enjoyed the solid ride and weatherband radio all the way home. Such a difference from my Celica...
Bob
However, I've always said that if I wasn't in IT, I'd be a meteorologist.
-Brian
I'm happy to hear things are looking okay now. Since the phenomenon has been documented you'll get quick attention if it happens again.
Happy driving!
Ken
Did you think that maybe you got bad gas? However if no new gas was put in and the dealer couldn't replicate the problem it is sure strange.
Anyway just thought you may have changed gas stations.
Gene
Craig
it's probably a carryover from using it on my truck, which is a feature on my cb. i fish, so i am sensitive to the weather particularly.
BTW, we now have 2600 miles on Charlie, our red '03 forester. so far great!
only one problem, the fan makes all kinds of noise like something is stuck in it. And if you set it to setting 3 or 4 it sounds like the whole front dashboard is gonna shake loose........
Anyone else with 03 soob's have this prob??
otherwise cool car, seems tight, handles great. Much better than that crappy review recently reflected (in C&D or a similar mag??)
The service adviser strongly discouraged me from changing the oil at 1500 miles. He said that the oil that's in the car now is the best oil that it will ever have in it, and that it should not be changed until 3750 miles. In addition, he was against the idea of changing to synthetic which I had planned to do immediately.
He explained that changing to synthetic at 1500 miles could cause the engine to burn oil and smoke, and that if I really wanted to change to synthetic, it shouldn't be done until 12,000 miles--although he would feel better about doing it at 3750 rather than 1500. He was not a fan of synthetic, period.
So now I'm confused. Opinions? I used Mobil 1 in my Celica for years, but I did not switch to it before I had several thousand miles on the vehicle.
Jon