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I don't like the steering wheel with the silver bits and excessively chunky spokes. The button in the middle of the audio controls looks like it says "menu"...not something I want, menu implies an overly complex system to me. The woodgrain bit on the center console makes me want to puke...what's Mazda going to do next put in a partial wood steering wheel ? I much prefer the look and functionality of the round vents to those rectagular ones.
What does "ACC" on the start button mean? (just curious)
Well said. And that is why there is some variety in the marketplace. Our Legacy has been phenomenal, it is a wagon (I know, not a sedan, but it does have a sedan counterpart), has AWD, a manual transmission, about 30 mpg, and is powerful enough to get out of its own way (although not a lot to write home about). I feel that it handles really well, even on crummy RE92s. Turn in is crisp, the back end feels very stable, there is a lot of feedback on what the car is doing. In poor weather, it is very stable (unless you are messing around) and provides a lot of feedback on road conditions.
Our Accord has returned stellar fuel efficiency (low to mid 30s), feels very powerful for a 4 cylinder (rated about the same HP as the Subie), and does a great job holding the child seat. It has very sluggish turn-in, masks what the front wheels are doing, has a lot of body roll for a car in 2007, and doesn't really do anything to inspire driver confidence. Normally some of that could be corrected with a tire upgrade, but due to a minivan tire size, performance options are severely limited w/o going to a 17" wheel. On an upside, KBB, NADA, and Edmunds all have "trade-in value" pegged at about what I paid for it.
On another vehicle that has that push start, you push it once to get the ACC position, or push and hold to start the car. The ACC position is the equivalent of turning the key to the accessory setting.
The square vents in the center stack makes me want to believe that the oscillating option for the vents returns once again (originally used on the 626). That was a surprisingly useful function. With the advent of dual climate control, I doubt it'll be so, but still, one can hope...
BMW's conservative estimates for the 330i were 6.1s to 60. CD I remember did a high 5 on one of theirs.
"Maybe in the handling dept., yes! I don't think 400lbs would make up for the 1.5 second difference to 60 between the two though"
I would think that difference would be more like < 1sec. And we were discussing switchbacks - so yeah, a 330i would have an advantage
Before I get kicked out for being OT - let's get back to midsize cars..
I don't see a button to control the ocillating vents, so I doubt that feature has returned. I'd be real surprised if it had, in this era of de-contenting to save every last buck.
No I don't have a problem "comprehending english". I was commenting on what he said, not you. I did not read your posts. I read his, in which he said his opinion was the 6 handled better. If you didn't say it does, that's fine. I was just saying that it's not a matter of his opinion, it is fact. Since I didn't read your posts, I didn't know you didn't say that. So, about my "whether he likes it or not" comment, I apologize. No need to insult, we are all adults here...most of us anyways....
As of right now, all we can go on is what we see in photos and Mazda's own comments on their dedication to using higher quality interior materials.
I said that the first photo (the real dark one) looked "plasticky." The second set of photos look a lot better to me. Part of the problem I have with the new interior is that I'm not a fan of black interiors in general, especially interiors that are acres of black plastic. There's some interesting contrasting materials in this cabin, e.g. the dark plood and metallic trim, but a lot of black. Hard to tell from the photo how soft the leather seats will be, what the door panels and dash will look like and feel like, etc. Some interiors look much better in person than in photos.
And this is from 2002 Jetta:
Hard plastic (or rubber in some newer cars) will generally provide for crisper edges. Other than that, it is virtually impossible in many cases to tell the difference from hard surface to one that is padded. In case of the Accord, top is hard plastic, something I couldn’t tell without pressing against it. The lighter shade is padded. In the VW, the reverse is true. In my 2000 Civic, everything was padded but it didn’t have as crisp edges as the Accord.
That said, I haven’t understood the need for soft padding on the top of the dash. To me, it needs to be soft where it matters, as long as the hard plastic rubber doesn’t look rough and brittle, and here is a classic case of cheap plastic-city
I do want padding on the arm rest however. Looking at this picture, that would be one of my concerns with something like the new Malibu.
Besides cost control, recycling is becoming a bigger part of car design, so that also has some impact on choices.
As far as some of the pictures of the 6 goes, I'm wary of those tiny buttons. With the NAV, they almost look Camry-eque, as well as six small buttons on the steering. One of the ideas for putting buttons on the steering has to be elimination of taking eyes off the road. With pieces that small, that doesn't seem to be a consideration. Even buttons on the dash are scattered and look a bit disorganized. Even a quick glance might not work well. There is more of form over function going there.
is just for me... very industrial and appeals to this engineer.
Although I haven't seen the new Accord's interior up close yet, but from pictures the matte plastic around stereo appears to be similar to TL. It looks very good, although difficult to maintain the clean look. But then, I rarely use those buttons.
Although used a little, instead of covering up a whole area, I do detest the pieces the Accord has with silvery plastic. I haven't seen a single rental car with an expanse of similar plastic that hasn't had a permanent scratch. A little touch shouldn't hurt much, but I would rather not have it at all as those textures don't age well. But it is a norm in virtually every vehicle these days, some just rely on it to create the impression of an appealing interior.
Padded dashes aren't important in the grand scheme of things, if the hard plastic is well done. Maybe it's just that in many cases, the padded dashes look a little more upscale than hard plastic.
As for buttons being scattered, I think it depends on if the buttons are logically grouped. For example, if all the switches for HVAC are clustered in one place, and the controls for the audio system are in another place, I don't think it matters that they're in two different areas, as long as they are a convenient reach and don't block other things like shifters, cupholders etc.
After a day or two, you quickly get accustomed to each button on the wheel via it's location and feel. It's similar to working the buttons on a video game console. Some of those buttons get pretty small, but after a while you don't even need to look (with the added benefit of not taking your hands off the wheel.)
Even buttons on the dash are scattered and look a bit disorganized. Even a quick glance might not work well. There is more of form over function going there.
IMO it's no worse than the new Accord or Camry. The Altima, OTOH (w/o nav) is quite possibly the most straight-forward layout and function of any car in any class.
I do like a lighter shade (Gray) for the headliner though.
The problem with those is not only they are small, they are also not as easy to figure out with a quick glance. OTOH, I have seen plenty of comments around how buttons in Accord have intimated folks. The fact is that they are logically grouped, are large and are much more clearly marked than in virtually any other car. As a matter of fact, while I thought 2003-2007 Accord’s dash looked good and a departure from most cars of its time, it lacked cohesiveness and some of it made thru in the 2004 TL too which happens to be the only dislike. While they are still logically grouped, the buttons are small in the TL and require more than a glance. This is not the case with the 2008 Accord.
The buttons are large and logically grouped. A glance reveals the functions, if one chooses to use them. An idea that has been gaining momentum in an effort to reduce buttons is to go thru "menu" button and scroll thru selections, and I am against it. My first love is voice activated controls, second is ergonomically correct controls (but not too many of them) on the steering, and finally, clearly marked practically size buttons with as much dedicated function as possible.
Also note the buttons on the steering wheel in the 6. Those are tiny. It seems that the way to use them would be to use the tip of the thumb, or else it would be the case of trial and error.
When it comes to video games, I prefer games around cars, and have to have steering wheels.
Also realize you are comparing two cars with nav to a car w/o nav. The control layouts would tend to be different in a car with nav and one without. One thing to keep in mind is that most factory nav systems in this class of car are voice activated. So that raises the question of how often the driver would actually use the buttons on the nav console.
There really is a striking similarity between the center console control and vent layouts on the Camry and 6 though, especially if you compare the Camry with manual HVAC to the 6.
The beauty of the layout is that not only they are organized well, they are ergonomically correct. And you haven't really seen me nitpick. There is something in the dash that I would have done a bit differently to make things even more consistent.
Here is one from Camry (this is for hybrid, but I assume the NAV version is similar):
Its not about just about ease of punching, it is also about the ease to figure out the button to punch. The only way this can be proven is that I show what I mean, in person.
Here is a DIY. Both pictures provide fairly good closeups. Take a moment to familiarize yourself with the layout. Now, with a function in mind, give a quick glance to each and see for yourself which of the two works better, or that you see no difference.
In fact, just look at the location of Skip/Seek and Scan buttons. Does THAT make a difference? Does it matter they be placed anywhere on the dash, as long as they exist? Or does it matter that they are grouped together in some way?
One thing that I do like about the Camry pic above is that the buttons, though smaller, are closer together so I my eyes have to move less to read more which lets me find the button I need faster. Just a personal preference of course...and one that after a couple weeks wouldn't matter anyway since I'd know where the controls were by then.
One thing that I would really like in a car in this class that would really help me keep my eyes on the road is a heads up display. Of course I'd like it to display more than just speed, rpm and a fuel gauge, but also song titles and HVAC settings. Even better would be if the info could be customizable like my desktop on my computer.
Yes, that's pretty much the case with all but the worst control layouts. It's a big deal if you almost never drive the car, as in a road test or rental, but not if you drive it every day. And with wheel and voice controls becoming more common, how often are the controls on the console used?
Not sure, but it may have something to do with your screen resolution, or maybe your font size is way too large. I have that problem on some websites (ESPN.com). I'm definitely not a computer wiz. I'm lucky I know how to type at my age.
Back in the early 90s I had a car with a black leather interior. I'll probably never forget what that felt like when I first sat down in the seat after it had been sitting in a parking lot on a hot summer day. Never again.
This is exactly the reason why I don't pay too much attention to testers that complain about control layout and/or functions. After a few days (and reading the manual, which should be required by law), the controls come as second-nature. As long as I don't have to scroll through 15 different menus just to raise the HVAC temperature (such as some integrated Nav systems and BMW's miserable I-Drive), I'm good to go.
The only time controls become more of an issue is when you rent a car, and even then, a couple minutes pushing a few buttons and turning a few knobs will get one accustomed enough to be on their way.
Besides, it's a good way to keep your annoying friends from changing the radio station or HVAC controls from the passenger seat, when the driver SHOULD be in complete control!
Glad you said something. I thought maybe it was just my ancient computer acting up. I get the same display that you do.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the size, just the lack of real performance tires in that size. I guess everyone that wants the vehicle to handle well opts for the 17" or 18" wheel pkgs, which gets to RobertMX's issue of adding 40-50 lbs of unsprung weight to the equation.
I guess the answer is to chose ligthweight aftermarket wheels w/summer tires (ala MazdaSpeed6, Civic SI) and use the stock wheels for snow tires or something.
Honestly, 205/55R16 tires are available in every style from mild to wild from every manufacturer under the sun. You would think they could just go with something like that vs reinventing the wheel, eh or tire I guess.
There is nothing wrong with i-drive. I figured it out in 30 seconds while travelling at 50 mph.
For 2008 I believe Mazda has made the 17 in alloys standard on base (sport) model.
What I don't understand is why a 17 inch tire apparently costs so much more than the exact same model of tire in 16 inch size. I assume it is because of the greater volume of 16 inch sales???
With 17s becoming pretty common, I wonder if this will change by the time I need replacement tires. I won't really be looking for any kind of super-performance tires and I sure won't buy the Mazda6 OEM model that runs $200 even on tirerack.
The SEL AWD 2007 Fusion has a 17-inch by 7.5-inch alloy wheel outfitted with 225-50-17 Michelin Pilots. I only have 5,300 miles on these and I am already dreading the day when I have to replace them. Current prices are $200 to $230 per tire not including balancing and new stem valves.
Has anybody had any experiences with Pep Boys tires or tires ordered through Sam's Club? I am more interested in a comfortable ride and tread longevity than I am performance. $1,000 for four new tires is way out of my league.
I'm guessing, with HFP package when it arrives, will have 19" rims. :P
Avoid Pep Boys at all costs! Their tires are cheap, but you get what you pay for unfortunately. Plus, they've been known to sell and install tires that have too low a load or speed rating for the specific vehicle, creating a potentially dangerous situation, just to make a few $$$$.
Check out Tirerack.com. There are plenty of tires in that size that are much less expensive than OEMs.
I get my oil changed at my Wal-Mart as well in my Accord.
Good luck with that. My buddy got a brand new engine after they put the wrong oil filter on his Camry. I wouldn't let Wal-Mart wash my dog.
As for tires - you can change tire sizes up to a point - just try to keep the overall diameter close.
I guess you may be an exception. The majority of owners and writers seem to think otherwise.
Tell me about it. It's time for me to replace mine, and I'm having a hard time finding tires I would be comfortable with. I am not spending $200/tire on the OEM Michelins, size P215/50 R17 93V. I am contemplating the Bridgestone Potenza G 009's.
You are not obligated to get Michelin again, you might look at other tires in the same size on tirerack or discount tire to get an idea what they should cost. You may want to look at the treadware rating on the tire, as a higher number implies a longer life. That said, that usually results in a harder rubber compound which is typically less compliant and also typically increases braking distances. You get what you pay for.
PS. on tirerack, your tires are $166-175 for the Michelins, and there are better options out there for less $$