Radar/Lidar detectors

pathstar · November 2001

I'm glad I bought it when I did. If you check out the exchange rate - Canadian $ vs American it was $ 0.67 when I bought mine (direct from Valentine R) and I got all the accessories at that time (remote display, remote audio, so it was around $700 Canadian (unit was $400 US). Now the exchange is down around $ 0.625!!!
Like they say in some radio insider adverts (about cell site antennas) - it's big, it's ugly (though the V1 is not really ugly), ... but it works! The only thing you have to always remember is to believe it! Nothing worse than getting a warning, ignoring it, and getting a ticket! Wonder how fast I'd have to go to get a $700 ticket ;-) .
David - Still no tickets -

pat84 · November 2001

My state doesn't have inspection stickers. The ones getting pulled over were definitely exceeding the speed limit. It is 55 and most travel at 70 in that stretch.
The device was large enough to take a picture of the front of my vehicle, but there was no detection and they were pulling cars over about 1/4 mile away. I did not like the feeling of my detector being totally useless.
BTW my detector has paid for itself many times over in gathering empirical data on the habits of my law enforcement community.

timadams · November 2001

You live in Northern VA where radar detectors are illegal, right Pat? That isn't the device that the cops use to detect radar detectors, is it? I know they have the capability to detect some radar detectors in use. Could that be what the device was?

I don't know about any new speed detection device, so I don't know what it might have been.

pathstar · November 2001

The most effective device the police use to detect radar detectors is they set up radar, and before you get to it (up the road), they post an officer. He radios ahead all the vehicles that apply the brakes as they are irradiated by the radar.

BTW, first there were radar speed measuring devices. Then there were radar detectors. Then there were radar detector detectors. Then there were radar detector detector detectors (that shut down the radar detector). Then there were radar detector detector detector detectors. Now there are radar detector detector detector detector detectors. I'm not kidding here, though it is hilarious. Spy vs spy stuff.

yzf · November 2001

I doubt Pat lives in Northern VA. Virginia does have state registration stickers on plates (front and rear) and annual inspection and tax stickers on the windshield. The box could not have been VASCAR because those systems are contained in police cars and don't require the officer to point anything at a vehicles allegedly exceeding the speed limit (except the officer's eyes). My guess is that Pat encountered a LIDAR set up and was luckily not zapped. If the officer was zapping someone in front of him or off to the side, his detector MAY not have captured the signal.

As for radar detector detectors - higher end radar detectors are supposed to be shielded from those things. I have my doubts about ANY of the high end detectors shielding effectiveness though . . .

pat84 · November 2001

I do drive in VA and in DC with my police efficiency measuring device in use. I have it hard wired in, on/off with ignition, through my "A" pillar, through the headliner. with the power cord dropping right out at my device clipped on my visor right above my head. It is almost invisible from outside my van. It is advertised as being VG -2 radar detector detector proof .
BTW the VA police cruise with K band on most of the time. I get them at over a mile away, in general. I have a more problematic lack of measuring efficiency in states where detectors are legal, because I find instant-on KA band and lasers a hindrance to measuring police efficiency at any reliable distance
I was close enough to that" whatever" that if it was laser/ lidar I would have detected it. I drove up to it from a considerable distance to right up to it as it was in a full size van on the side of the road I have detected lasers with my detector. It certainly would have gone off, if this was any kind of laser. .

swinga7 · November 2001

you know they cant actually take your detector away. Its against federal law. you could take them to court and get your detector back, might not be worth it but if you wanna be stubborn its possible. Taking away your detector violates the comunnications act of 1934.. This act states that you are guaranteed the right to receive radio transmissions on any frequency. so if the cop is being a jerk (like most of them are) tell him you'll see him in court and that you expect a smile on his face when he hands your detector back to you.

joe166 · November 2001

I think if you take that attitude with any Police Officer that I know, you will not get much at the hearing except grief. Remember that our system is based on everyone telling the truth and that if a "cop" is ticked off enough by your comments and behavior, you will find out that it isn't smart to tick off the man.

As to your legal advice, I think you may be technically right, but if your position had been upheld by any State or Federal court, they couldn't even pass laws against the use of detectors. Don't you think if that interpretation of the FCC act of 34 was good law the various manufacturers of detectors wouldn't have banded together and challenged the state of Va and the DC in court? Common sense says that although the act says more or less what you say it says, the state of Va has managed to craft a law that passes constitutional muster and avoids the Federal Preemption doctrine. I don't live there and when I do travel in Va, I have not felt inclined to take the time and trouble to challenge the law, but I bet lots of lawyers have been ticketed for having a detector and have challenged the law prohibiting them many times. The result? The law is still in effect.

timadams · November 2001

I got a ticket for using a radar detector in VA once. I lived in MD at the time. The cop told me to take the detector down and put in away, but he didn't try to take it from me. I don't know what they do if you are a VA resident.

pat84 · November 2001

VA used to confiscate radar detectors. My understanding is that now they ticket you and tell you to deactivate it. When you enter VA, no matter which road, you will see a sign that says radar detectors are illegal. I try to manage risks. I don't know how much a radar detector ticket is, but speeding tickets are at least in the $65 range for starters.
As for starting an argument with a police officer who has pulled you over, is asking for it.

yzf · November 2001

From the Virignia Code. Note the section where forfeiture of the illegal device is not allowed - yet confiscation for "evidentiary purposes" may occur at the discretion of the arresting officer.

§ 46.2-1079. Radar detectors; demerit points not to be awarded.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle on the highways of the Commonwealth when such vehicle is equipped with any device or mechanism, passive or active, to detect or purposefully interfere with or diminish the measurement capabilities of any radar, laser, or other device or mechanism employed by law-enforcement personnel to measure the speed of motor vehicles on the highways of the Commonwealth for law-enforcement purposes. It shall be unlawful to use any such device or mechanism on any such motor vehicle on the highways. It shall be unlawful to sell any such device or mechanism in the Commonwealth. However, provisions of this section shall not apply to any receiver of radio waves utilized for lawful purposes to receive any signal from a frequency lawfully licensed by any state or federal agency.

This section shall not be construed to authorize the forfeiture to the Commonwealth of any such device or mechanism. Any such device or mechanism may be taken by the arresting officer if needed as evidence, and, when no longer needed, shall be returned to the person charged with a violation of this section, or at that person's request, and his expense, mailed to an address specified by him. Any unclaimed devices may be destroyed on court order after six months have elapsed from the final date for filing an appeal.

Except as provided in subsection B of this section, the presence of any such prohibited device or mechanism in or on a motor vehicle on the highways of the Commonwealth shall constitute prima facie evidence of the violation of this section. The Commonwealth need not prove that the device or mechanism in question was in an operative condition or being operated.

B. A person shall not be guilty of a violation of this section when the device or mechanism in question, at the time of the alleged offense, had no power source and was not readily accessible for use by the driver or any passenger in the vehicle.

C. This section shall not apply to motor vehicles owned by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof and used by law-enforcement officers in their official duties, nor to the sale of any such device or mechanism to law-enforcement agencies for use in their official duties.

D. No demerit points shall be awarded by the Commissioner for violations of this section. Any demerit points awarded by the Commissioner prior to July 1, 1992, for any violation of this section shall be rescinded and the driving record of any person awarded demerit points for a violation of this section shall be amended to reflect such rescission.

tidester · November 2001

yzt,

I'm no lawyer, but it would seem to me that the Virginia code violates the principle of habeus corpus. I could interpret the code as denying you the right to determine (with some kind of a detector) whether, in fact, the officer actually employed such a device to gather evidence against you.

As it stands, you have only his/her word that such a device was actually turned on. Any lawyers in the group?

tidester
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joe166 · November 2001

is a common law writ requiring that the body (person) of a prisoner be brought before the court to show whether he was properly incarcerated (that is, whether there was sufficient evidence--it usually required some time to pass). I really don't know what applicability that might have in a case involving a radar detector unless you are in a whole lot more trouble than most speeding tickets cause. The real issue seems to me to be whether the Va law, which is subordinate to the Federal Law under the supremacy clause of the US Constitution and which might be simply wiped out by the doctrine of preemption, runs afoul of any Federal Law. There is little doubt that if the congress passed a law saying that radar detectors were legal anywhere in the USA, the Va law would fall. That isn't the case. What you have is people claiming that the fact that the Federal government has passed regulations about the airwaves and the reception of radio signals and deciding who can use different frequencies (including radar signals) means that the Feds have preempted any state from regulating this area and prohibiting their citizens from "listening" to radar, which is, after all, a form of radio waves, but not intended to be listened to. I personally think that this is a real reach, but paid enough money I would be glad to argue this as far as your money would take it. Many states had passed laws concerning radar detectors that did not pass muster. I don't know, but it seems that Va must have looked very carefully at their law as it is one of the few which have survived challenges. It would seem that the last sentence of the first paragraph did the trick. I have not researched this as it is of no importance to me since I seldom go to Va, but I just can't believe that it has not been challenged many times in all types of cases and it is still the law.

tidester · November 2001

joe,

Thanks for taking the time to enlighten us.

As I said, I am not an attorney. I just wonder how, when a "radar case" makes it to court, can anyone know for certain that the officer even had his radar/laser unit turned on or whether he read it correctly.

It seems the burden is on you to prove your innocence and you haven't a clue whether the "evidence" is legitimate.

Officer:I clocked him at 87 mph.

You:I wasn't speeding.

- your word against his with no corroboration on his part.

Thanks again for the insight!

tidester
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joe166 · November 2001

This is what many cases come down to and if the average Joe thinks that the Judge, who comes to his "office" (that same courthouse) every day and sees the same police officers testify every day will believe a citizen to the exclusion of someone who probably has the responsibility of keeping that Judge safe, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell. Fact of life: If it is a swearing contest between an average person and a cop, the Judge is going to believe the cop. I am not saying this is right, I am saying it is a fact. Now there are exceptions. If a defendant is a celebrity (as defined by the Judge), he might have some built in credibility. On the other hand, if you spent any time in lower courts as I did when I was a young prosecutor, some of the reasons and statements you hear are so ludicrous that you get hardened and think everyone who received a ticket is lying. A hard thing to avoid, but again a fact. Many people are just not real good at lying and when you hear them a lot, you get a sense of it. Unfortunately, there are some characteristics that are common both to lying and to nervousness. Too bad, so sad. I have also seen situations where the police officer has been discredited in one case and he might as well go get another job because the word gets around the courthouse and no one believes him if he were to say the sky was blue. Theoretically, if it is a standoff between a citizen and a police officer with no additional evidence, it should be a tie decided in favor of innocence. That is a theory. Of all the cases you see in a traffic court, I doubt that even 10% are dismissed after a trial. That may be because MOST police officers exercise restraint and only bring in the best cases, giving others the benefit of the doubt. When an officer goes far beyond that regularly the judges sense that and start letting any close cases walk. That officer will soon stop doing it. They don't want to get beaten all the time. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

tidester · November 2001

joe,

I am convinced that what you say is true. Perhaps it's for reasons of expediency that Virginia bans radar/lidar detectors since that would provide another "defense" by the accused. But, in the end, it still comes down to your word against the police.

Now, on a cynical day, I might suppose that such bans are intended to maintain a valuable source of income for local governments ... but I'm not in a cynical mood today! ;-)

... and thanks for your insights!

tidester
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Aftermarket & Accessories

alex18t · November 2001

I just bought a bel 936, I wonder is there a nifty way to run a wire around the perimeter of the windshield and around to your cigarette lighter? How? Should I mount it on my visor or on the suction cups?

I live in nyc, took a road trip through west virginia once and a state trooper pulled my buddy over, and the 12 of us in the van, because we were in the left lane going 65 in a 70. Not a bit of traffic on either horizon and the cop was anal enough to give him a sumense(spelled correctly?)for holding up "traffic" instead of jut a warning, even though he knew we lived 10 hours away and just wanted to get out of the state and on to the fun stuff.

Isn't extra-marital sex illegal in Virginia? how depraived.

And my friend has a V1 with a remote viewer, it works very well, something like 15 seconds of warning on straight level interstate. The arrow is a nice feature, and it's always right.

joe166 · November 2001

It is usually easy to remove the trim from the a pillar (between the windshield and the front door window). If you do that you will see some wires already there. Tape your wire to those and make sure that the clip or whatever is holding the trim to the pillar doesn't pinch any of the wires and put it back on carefully. Then push the wire carefully (with something that is not real sharp) into the crack between the windshield and the headliner. Most of the time this works fine, but once in a while you need to get some sticky substance that doesn't run and put it in there to hold the wire. There are some adhesives that look like clay that you can knead into a small round shape and they work fine. As to then using the cigarette lighter, that is pretty much a waste as you will have that end of the power cord in plain view and you will have to remove the pillar a lot. I would suggest you get the hard wired version of the power cord, buy a cheap test light ($4 or so at Walmart or Pep Boys) and find a switched power source to tap into. Then when you remove the detector you won't leave evidence in the open that you probably put it in the glove box. The detector should go where it fits best. If you can stick it on the windshield, that works best for me, but some of them fit great on the sun visor. Try them both.

sranger941 · November 2001

Just a word of caution. If your vehicle has side curtain airbags which deploy from the panel over the doors, be very careful when working near this trim as you do not want to damage the airbags or cause them to unintentionally deploy.

alex18t · November 2001

I'll let you know how it goes, I'm using the cig. ligher method. Tapping into a power source is way too clever for this layman.

pat84 · November 2001

If you have a fuse box any where near your steering wheel, near the floor, check out which fuses are for equipment that is only on with the ignition. Connect your detector on the fused side of of one of these fuses. Go through the A pillar and stuff it behind the head liner to above your head and clip it the visor. It will come on with the ignition, and go off with it. Some cigarette lighters are not on /off with the ignition.
BTW why was the driver of the van left lane camping ? I am glad to hear that West Virginia tickets for this. I wish more states did.

yooper53 · December 2001

a product that passively jams radar (they claim) as well as negating laser signals. More info available at (866)224-8475.

blane · December 2001

yooper53:

I've got a bridge to sell you. It connects Manhattan with Brooklyn.

In other words save your money if you are thinking about a Phazer.

tidester · December 2001

yooper,

a product that passively jams radar

Passive jammer? Isn't that an oxymoron?

tidester
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pat84 · December 2001

I believe the phazer is an active jammer. That is, it emits a signal. They are not effective: save your money,and buy a good radar detector.
Look at the posts above for opinions as to which is the best for you.
You have to drive alertly, even with a detector. If you are the first to get hit with instant-on Ka band radar, or with a laser, your warning comes as your speed is already read.

scotian · December 2001

The only effective jammers are active (but not all active jammers are effective, and all are illegal in the U.S.). No "passive jammers" (which at best are scramblers) are effective (but are illegal in at least Minnesota), and usually will make you more visible to radar. I think the Phazers are passive, though.

allan441 · December 2001

Does anyone have any experience with the new Uniden GPS detector? It seems to have a number of interesting features, including giving you your exact position, direction of travel, distance, etc. How does the Uniden detector compare with other radar/laser dectors such as Escort etc?

timadams · December 2001

Car & Driver tested six "high end" radar detectors in the Feb. 2001 issue. As most of us would expect, the Valentine One was the winner, followed by the Escort Passport 8500 and the Bel 980, with Cobra, Whistler and Uniden models far behind. The magazine recommends the Valentine One, but admits that it is pricey. In addition to the cost, the Valentine One also performs relatively poorly in filtering out false alarms.

For those unwilling to spend $400, the Passport 8500 is a good, solid second choice, giving up some detection range to the Valentine One. The Passort does a better job of filtering out annoying false alarms, however.

I checked the C&D website, but the radar detector comparison test isn't on it yet. I imagine it will be available online soon.

wbhall · December 2001

I was noticing the other day while checking out some of the newer radar dectectors that the Bel or Cobra showed that it detected 3 different types of Laser?? That is the 1st time I've ever noticed different laser detections. Something new?

lambo_oreo · January 2002

Just got a new V1 for xmas and the directional arrows are a huge help. You'll never realize it until you used one. I've been using the passport 7500 and got one speeding ticket on it. I think the extra $100 is worth it.

minikin · January 2002

I decided to trace through this thread just for something interesting to do and wasn't going to open my mouth; but I just can't help it. Back in the days of "The Fed's 55 rules" (which made no damn sense by the way) radar detectors were worth the $$$ and effort. But today, I just can't understand why someone who's not just plain paranoid or pathological would be willing to spend $300 - $400 for a detector. The "bosses" aren't leaning on our backs anymore to make federal quotas and the "rule" out here (CO) is 10 over unless something stupid is going on; and there's discretion over that for clear road, etc. I make about 3 x-country trips a year in my personal car and drive at whatever the traffic will bear, reasonable and prudent. Actually, normally 5 over prevailing speeds since that's what I'm professionally comfortable running at and don't like traffic closing in on me from behind. Sometimes that's the speed limit, but more often 10 to as much as 20 over. Haven't used a detector since the feds pulled the speed limit and only twice since then have I ever needed to lean on professional courtesy; and one of those was because I'd "spaced " and was doing 55 in a 35 through a rural college campus for which I should really have been ticketed. My honest opinion -- for the most part they really ain't out to get you unless you deserve it these days and even if we were, one honest ticket is gonna cost you less than a V-1.
-- Don

scottc8 · January 2002

You're absolutely right about normal interstate speeds in CO, at least in the I25 corridor, and anywhere near Denver. But I've seen people ticketed out east on I76 who were barely cracking 80 mph. And besides the fine, the increase in insurance premiums if your company happens to randomly pull your MVR is something to consider. There's also time & convenience; years ago, visiting CO as a tourist, I had to follow a trooper about 20 miles back to the "nearest" town to pay the fine. Almost got stuck in the mud following him across the median!

But I have no argument with your point. Just explaining why it's worth it to me. I also do a lot of long distance traveling, and I like being able to cruise 85-90 in relative peace of mind, when conditions permit it to be done safely.

And, heck, I'll admit it: It's fun. The V1 is a mighty neat gadget. If bottom line costs and practicality were my first consideratation, I'd be driving a 40 mpg economy car instead of a V8 Lincoln. Surely I don't have to explain being a car nut HERE.

With due respect to courtesy, and consideration of the safety of other drivers, to each his own.

BTW, I've had the V1 for a few months now & am thoroughly satisfied with it. Thanks to all on this forum for the good info & advice.

timadams · January 2002

You make some good points, minikin. I don't feel nearly as vulnerable now as I used to when I drive without a radar detector. I agree that they are not needed as much now as 10 to 20 years ago. But they still provide an extra amount of knowledge and protection, and the cost is reasonable compared to the cost one might incur with just one speeding ticket if you factor in three years of insurance premium hikes.

After all, you (I presume you are a cop) and 80 percent of your fellow officers might be reasonable and recognize that someone is safely driving over the limit. But there are cops out there who will gladly hand out tickets for speeding.

lambo_oreo · January 2002

Where I live (#4 safest city in the US), the cops have nothing better to do but to give out unreasonable tickets like 35 on 25, failure to stop on a stop sign inside a residential subdivision. I guess they feel the need to do something or show their authority. I am 1 ticket away from getting my licensed suspended for stupid stuff. The ticket price is not an issue its the insurance premium that kills me. Its nice to have the V1 next to me and know that I know where those pricks are hiding.

mike734 · January 2002

Yes. And the best reason, to avoid being stung be traps. Many jurisdictions use traffic fines to raise revenue. I don't want to be an unwilling party to their fund raising schemes. I don't speed excessively but anyone can get caught by a trap.

this_is_nascar · January 2002

I dissagree with your statement recommending why a detector is no longer needed. Many towns us speeding tickets as the way to gain revenue to their town and won't think twice to give you a ticket if you're 5 MPH over the limit. Even if the law of averages states that a trooper won't stop you if your less than 10 MPH over the limit, I'd rather not take the chance. My V1 goes off and I slow to the speed limit no matter where or when.

minikin · January 2002

Honestly sorry for your early, tourist experience; that's really not the way our system works anymore!!
-- Don

scottc8 · January 2002

Thanks, Don, but it was a long time ago, in the dark early days of the 55 limit, which I was probably abusing pretty badly. Middle of the night somewhere out around Sterling, IIRC. The officer was probably just trying to be sure that he 1) Collected the fine that was duly owed, and 2) Taught a young kid that speeding doesn't always save time. He accomplished both.

Truthfully, even though I like to drive fast where conditions permit, the biggest problem with law enforcement on the roads of Colorado is that there isn't enough of it. I commute from Greeley to Longmont every day, and I wouldn't drive I-25 if they gave gasoline away. 85 mph + with someone glued to my rear bumper is not my idea of pleasant high speed travel.

pathstar · January 2002

If you get a GPS (I use a Garmin GPS III+ and am contemplating getting the Streetpilot III) you can travel at the actual speed limit (the GPS has a speed readout that is very accurate). I find when I do this I pass most other motorists, as they are relying on their inaccurate speedos, which are usually set to read high due to their inaccuracy. I still use my V1, because I like to know when I'm being watched!

Quite a while ago Car and Driver published "rules" to drive by to avoid problems with the law. Very reasonable and effective.

geok991 · January 2002

About 10 years ago I was in Quebec on a fishing trip. Didn't know detectors were illegal.
I was driving on a deserted straightaway when I was passed by a Mounty going the other way. I didn't have my unit switched on.
After he passed me I reached up and turned the thing on so I would be ready for the next one.
I saw in my mirror the Mounty make a U-turn. He gave me a ticket and took my detector. The ticket was for using the detector
I never paid the fine. Six months later I received a letter stating a warrant was issued for my arrest.
I haven't been back.

pat84 · January 2002

My detector has paid for itself many times over. BTW paranoid people sometimes get picked on for real.

swinga7 · January 2002

I have a detector and there have been a couple times that i've passed a cop that didn't have his radar on so my detector gave no warning. Thats when you grit your teeth and glue your eyes to the rearview. haven't gotten nailed yet which is surprising. wish they had cop detectors instead of radar detectors

spartanman2 · January 2002

I have a copy of the recent Car and Driver issue also; Valentine One came out on top, followed by Escort 8500. However, there was a test conducted by another group, whose name escapes me right now but their findings were posted on the internet (keyword:radar test) and in a Car and Driver ad ,which gave the Escort 8500 first place. Valentine finished behind Bel.

For the money, Escort 8500 seems like the better choice.

tboner1965 · January 2002

Buy the Escort 8500 and spend the $100 save on a CB 8^)

This way, you have layered protection.

TB

jbarm · January 2002

I think the V1 and the Passport 8500 are both very good detectors, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

You've got to be careful about the tests published out there though because there are some bias issues. I know Valentine always rips any review by Craig Peterson because he 'consults' for companies that compete with Valentine. But then Valentine has Patrick Bedard, Sr. Editor of Car and Driver, as a 'consultant' on their payroll and thus you have to take their test results with a grain of salt. And of course all Car magazines get advertising dollars from the folks whose products they are testing, so impartiality is always in question.

Too bad Consumers Report is so left-wing that they wouldn't test radar detectors. CR doesn't take money from any commercial interests at all.

jb

this_is_nascar · January 2002

Anyone that is interested should do the comparision for themselves. I did. Being a long-term V1 user, I purchased the 8500 when it first became available. With the 30-day no questions asked return policy, it's easy to do. The results of my testing basically came down to which device suits you better. For me, with all results being pretty much the same, the direction arrows can not be matched. I may have been swayed to the 8500 if it performed at a much higher level, but in my testing, they were pretty much the same.

ruking1 · January 2002

#747

And in that sense, one could probably throw in the price performance calculation. In your case since you already owned the V1 at 400 bucks, the real question was: was it worth the depreciation to switch to the passport 8500 at 300 bucks? The next comparison would be buy each detector and keep the one that fit you the best. I would also say that if you had a Passport 8500 and tried out a V1, you would also have the same concern, is it worth the depreciation to switch? I am glad you are happy with the V1.

tidester · January 2002

jbarm,

Too bad Consumers Report is so left-wing that they wouldn't test radar detectors

I am curious - why would testing radar detectors split along left-right political lines?

tidester
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scottc8 · January 2002

Maybe it doesn't quite fall into politics that way, but Consumer Reports has always been a strong supporter of the Nanny State, where government knows far better how to take care of you than you could possibly know yourself. Government exists to protect us from the evils of the Free Market, and to relieve us of the necessity of personal responsibility and common sense. It would be unethical, not to mention downright ungrateful, to endorse or condone a device which makes it easier for people to violate laws, especially laws which exist solely for our own safety.

Just my opinion, based on many years of reading their magazine.

scotian · January 2002

Sounds good, except for the part about speed limit "laws which exist solely for our own safety." Strictly speaking, speed limit laws also exist for revenue collection.

Radar/Lidar detectors

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