Radar/Lidar detectors

mike734 · April 2002

My point is that I have always wanted the best detector. I have to presume the 8500 is better than my old v1. Sooo if I want the latest and greatest, I have to spend an additional 200 for the new V1 or 300 for the 8500. I think I will opt for a new 8500 and keep the old V1. At least then I will have two detectors.

scotian · April 2002

I wouldn't presume that myself, but now you can test them against each other.

joe166 · April 2002

Why would you presume the 8500 is better than your "old" V1? What they told me was that the differences between my V1 and the "upgrade" V1 were not significant. They told me mine was pretty close to the current one and they would not reccomend replacing it. From personal experience, but not side by side comparison, I think my new V1 is just about the same as my old one except for the one item I was concerned about, the case size. Try them out and see. Let us know. An interesting, but kind of expensive experiment.

mike734 · April 2002

My reason for thinking the "old" V1 might not be as good as the 8500 is that the two are arguably very close. Since the old V1 is less sensitive to Ka, I guess the 8500 would score better. If I decide to buy an 8500 for car #2, I will let you all know the results of my unscientific discoveries.

ocuihs · April 2002

If you operate/test both V1 and 8500 or any other superheterodyne radar detectors in same vehicle, they will definitely give false alarms! What are some suggested methods to test these detectors? I wanted to order both V1/8500 (same 30 day return policy) and return the "loser". Both are excellent detectors and I really wanted to find the best radar range(sensitivity) between the two. A $100 difference between the two is I think V1's magnesium casing/Radar locator/"Dee-Deet" additional audio threats. Magnesium casing is excellent to protect those internal circuits.

leogenghis · April 2002

This is a question that's been in my head for a long time. If the V1's arrows are so useful and helpful, why doesn't any other manufacturer offer it? The only reason I can think of is that Valentine has a patent on it, so others can't put arrows on their units as well. If that's the case, does anyone know when the patent expires? (looking forward to that day!) :-)

Thanks
Leo

mike734 · April 2002

I would recommend driving a circuit course and count the number of false alarms. If you could find one of those "your speed is" radar operated unmanned signs, you could also check the sensitivity of the K band. Let us know.

pat84 · April 2002

Perhaps, those arrows make a detector cost $400, and other manufactures would rather market a less expensive detector. I find it hard to believe that directional radar detection hasn't been around since WW II. All you need are two detectors, one each, front and rear and circuitry to track signal time of arrival between the two detectors to give you four arrows. This could be easily done by comparing the phase of the signals in the superhet conversion of both the front and rear detectors. Hardly worth a patent.

kheintzelman · May 2002

I'm running the Escort 8500, well-mounted on the windshield of a 2002 Explorer. In addition to the 8500's front-facing "antenna", this detector also has a 2nd, small, rear-facing "antenna" mounted on its top surface, which I believe I've witnessed to work pretty well. But, the 8500's visual display does not indicate to the driver whether it perceives a threat to be coming from the front or the rear of the vehicle, and even if it did attempt to indicate this "forward/behind" information, I question the actual value of this in real world, other than for entertainment value, because... 1) radar emissions are easily reflected and bounced-around by a variety of surfaces, and it seems logical to conclude that most any radar detector claiming to be able to reliably discriminate between forward and rear threats will inevitably suffer from periodic FALSE and/or AMBIGUOUS "directional" warnings; 2) In the real world, how often would your accurately knowing whether a threat is coming from either behind or in front of you, result in your CONFIDENTLY deciding to continue speeding, rather than to slow down? Suppose you get pinched by a patrolman who nailed you from behind, but at the moment he "illuminated" you, your detector falsely indicated a forward bogey due to reflections, as well as the fact that your Golden Retriever in the back seat happened to be standing-up, leaning over the front seat for a cookie and a little loving, thus blocking the rear antenna at the fatal moment. Are you going to contest the ticket because your trusty Valentine One indicated that the patrol car couldn't possibly have nailed you from been behind you as the cop reported? Yeah, right-- especially if you're far from home and thinking of using your word of the "reading" from your V-1 to contest a citation that would require a court appearance several days later in "BFE". Are you deranged?

As I opined in an earlier post, it's my opinion that the bottom-line with these detectors is that if you're speeding and your detector calls out an alert (especially in unfamiliar territory), then you really ought to think about slowing down, regardless of whether you think the threat is coming from behind or in front of you. And by the way, among those of you who own the V-1, please tell the rest of us if this detector's owners manual mentions any warnings and disclaimers as to the reliability, accuracy, and false-warnings of its front vs. rear detection???

txcarbuyer · May 2002

In response to your questions about the V-1 directions. . .

Goto http://www.valentine1.com/moreinfo/

Select the "V1 Owner's Manual" button on the bottom of the page.

tidester · May 2002

result in your CONFIDENTLY deciding to continue speeding

I thought the premise of owning detectors was for safety reasons and to gently remind you when you may be wavering over the speed limit? Surely, no one here purchases them with the intent of breaking the law!

tidester
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Aftermarket & Accessories

mike734 · May 2002

I believe the V1 is the only detector with two antenna for radar. The 8500 antenna may be for Laser. The value of the directional arrows must be experience to be appreciated. I suggest you try it before you knock it.

joe166 · May 2002

"The value of the directional arrows must be experienced to be appreciated."

I agree. It gives a lot of useful information. Radar from the side is usually door openers or intrusion alarms. Knowing that at a particular location there is always a side warning means that if there is a back arrow lit, beware! I find it very useful. I have owned top of the line Escorts and was very satisfied with them. I prefer my V1, but believe that the new Escort must be very good indeed. Why can't people like their detector without trying to denigrate others who like something different? It's my money, if I want to spend $100 of it on arrows, why should anyone else care? If someone else doesn't want to spend it, that is OK with me.

scotian · May 2002

I see you're straining to talk yourself into believing that the directional arrows don't matter. My advice to you: Don't knock it 'till you try it. You'll feel much better about your choice of radar detector if you get a V1.

Your 8500 may have front/rear laser detection, but not rear radar detection.

Front and rear detection: It's twice the information.

blane · May 2002

kheintzelman:

You may consider the dollar value of not investing an extra 25% to buy the directional capabilities of the Valentine. But, having owned a couple of BELs over the years before I purchased my Valentine, I can assure you that it is a false economy. The first "real world" ticket that you avoid by having the directional arrow warning will surely compensate for the few bucks extra that you lay out up front.

pat84 · May 2002

My experience is that door openers and intrusion alarms are X band. Most police radars are K and Ka band.
I realize that the V1 has two distinct front and rear radar detectors. 4 way arrow capability is an off shoot of this. Kheintzleman may have raised an interesting point about radar reflections and the V1 directional arrows.
Many radar detections are from reflections of legitimate police radars. Detection of instant-on Ka band radars is generally going to be by reflection off a vehicle or some other object further up (or behind) you on the road.
I know from personal experience that you can measure a car's speed from a position perpendicular to that car by bouncing the signal off the road directly in front of the car (or directly to the rear), the signal with doppler comes back off the vehicle and returns to the radar gun bouncing off the road in the same as it was sent. Technically, your V1 would should indicate a side arrow. My bet it displays a front or rear arrow, depending on the bounced reflection.
My question is: !) Do you modify your driving habits depending on which directional arrow lights up, or 2) do you immediately respond to an alarm, and then use the arrow to look for the source of the radar ?
If I had a V1, I would be a 2 type of driver.
I am that way with my Bel. I immediately slow down, then try to find the source of the radar detection. It sort of validates the alarm.

joe166 · May 2002

"My question is: !) Do you modify your driving habits depending on which directional arrow lights up, or 2) do you immediately respond to an alarm, and then use the arrow to look for the source of the radar ?"

You know, the funny thing is that I seldom speed. I admit to speeding a few miles over in towns and on the turnpike, but very seldom do I really go more than 5-8 miles over. Once in a great while on a really boring turnpike or interstate I may find myself distractedly going 80-85 MPH, but not very often and when I am, usually I am either in traffic in a convoy type situation keeping up or on a wide open road with no one else around. SO, I don't usually have to alter my driving style, but I just like to keep informed, particularly in certain towns here in South Florida so that my clean driving record will stay clean. I do react as you do, but then sometimes I choose to ignore the warning based on the direction of the warning. An intermittent rear signal may be bounced, but it also might be someone coming up from behind and getting blocked off by trucks or other traffic. In either situation, I will slow down and keep my eyes open until it stops warning me or I am sure of what it is warning me about. I am much less concerned with rear warnings after a few minutes than I would be of a front warning that stays on for a while.

palting · May 2002

I've just re-read this whole (well, maybe not whole) thread. I haven't had a moving violation in 8 years. After thinking long and hard whether detectors would actually make me less "situationally aware" and therefore more likely to get tickets or not, I've decided to get one. Shopped and reviewed everything (kind'a obsessive), it's obviously Passport 8500 vs Valentine 1. Was going for V1 based on some forum posts, then I actually clicked on and read all the reports/references quoted at the detectors respective websites (escortradar.com and valentineone.com). Here's what I came away with:

1. Car and Driver test flawed. Sensitivity was checked at shorter distances(2.5 miles), gave unequal scores for equal performance, gave heavier weight to K-band.

2. Ka band is a growing and greater threat over all other bands, V1 doesn't detect it as well as well as Bell and Passport.

3. How useful is rear threat detection?

4. Passport has more features for 30% less cost than V1.

5. V1 WAS the benchmark but is now obsolete.

6. There is almost no defense against laser. You're tagged, that's it.

OK. I am going to buy a Passport 8500 in the next several days unless somebody on this board can convince me otherwise.

TIA.

scottc8 · May 2002

I've had the V1 about six months. It's the only detector I've ever owned so I'm not qualified to offer V1 vs Whatever opinions. My daily commute is a 90 mile round trip, mostly rural highways, so it gets used a lot. I find the rear antenna, along with the directional arrows, to be very useful in quickly sorting out false alarms, such as those from automatic doors and alarms. Some people complain that the V1 gives too many falses; I'd prefer that it detect EVERYTHING and leave it to me to sort out. With the logic control turned to the intermediate level, it shows everything it detects but only beeps loudly on strong signals. Valentine does not restrict the unit's sensitivity to filter out falses.

Lots of people are happy with the Passport. Maybe it's better, or better for the money. But I don't think the V1 is obsolete.

pat84 · May 2002

I have a Bel. It announces the band it detects as well as has a different audio sounds for laser. Since door closers are X band (which is not totally out of use in U.S. by police. I got an X band detection on I- 95 in NC from a local city cop a few months ago) I generally ignore all X band detections. K band and especially Ka band, which is instant on, get all my attention. Knowing what band you are detecting is extremely useful in sorting out spurious alarms. A true false alarm would be internally generated by the detector electronics.
Spurious alarms are detections of radar signals ; you do not have to worry about a door closer giving you a ticket

scotian · May 2002

"I'd prefer that it detect EVERYTHING and leave it to me to sort out."

This would be OK if the sounds the V1 made were more like the 8500's. I would love to turn off x-band under 4 dot strength.

palting - The V1 is not obsolete by any means; what a very strange thing to say. Perhaps you meant it hasn't had a major overhaul in a while? It has seen some minor improvements of late. Maybe if they repackaged the same thing as the "Valentine Two" with a sleeker case you would think better of it.

palting · May 2002

The items I mentioned in my post were quotes/paraphrases from magazines and tests. I have no idea if the V1 is obsolete or not. That was a quote from radartest.com, regarding Ka band sensitivity. Basically, the difference to me was Ka band sensitivity and false alarms. In these two very important areas, V1 was either inferior to or at best equal to the Passport on the tests.

I have no doubt that both these detectors are excellent products. I'm not dissing either one. I believe I can't go wrong with either one. I'm just trying to find out which is the better one to purchase. Based on the references provided by their respective websites, I feel the Passport is the better detector.

I thank you all for the responses. It has rounded out the decisions a bit, as well as given me tips on the proper use of a radar/laser detector.

blane · May 2002

palting:

The Valentine's directional arrows are worth much, much more to me than than the up front hundred dollars that I might have saved by cheaping out. They've saved my butt a couple of times.

If radartest.com used the word "obsolete" for the Valentine I'd question the entire review. That's way off base and contrary to most other tester's findings. I suggest that any detector without directional arrows is obsolete, before using such a term for the best all-around unit.

pat84 · May 2002

I would like a detector with directional arrows, with audio radar band detected and programmable X band rejection.

scotian · May 2002

I would not only question, I would discount in its entirety any utterance of any reviewer that would call the V1 "obsolete."

The only way a detector -- any detector -- becomes obsolete is when police start using a new set of frequencies that it no longer detects. Period. Whoever wrote those reviews obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

palting · May 2002

The other way a detector becomes obsolete is if it does not keep up with the times. Just finished reading some more review articles. The V1 is definitely behind the eight ball on Ka frequency radar, the newer and progressively getting more used radar band. The V1 detects it, but at a significantly shorter distance than Bell or Passport. Up to 3.2 miles too late on one test.

I've just bought a $110,000 car. I would not blink at a $100 difference in price for a detector. But, there is a saying: You get a better purchase with a dollar well spent than ten dollars spent frivolously. Or, a fool and his money are soon parted. I do not intend to be a fool. Maybe, in the not so distant past, when Ka was not such a threat, V1 was king. Unless they improve on the Ka band sensitivity, ergonomics, and additional features, the V1 to me currently is the one that was once a king. I am buying the Passport.

Thanks for the input, y'all. See y'all again in the forum for the next purchase event.

mike734 · May 2002

If you can afford it, why not buy both. I am wary of all the test run so far because they do not seem to be repeatable. I own the V1 and am very happy. But, I would sure like to see some unbiased test conducted so we could put this argument to rest.

leogenghis · May 2002

A few people here in the past have done actually that. They bought them both, mounted them side by side, and returned one of them later. I think the main consensus was: on Passport, fewer fake alarms but still very accurate, more pleasing tone and higher Ka range, and on Valentine, the invaluable directional indicators - more fake alarms but the arrows easily let the driver figure out for himself. The latter also has a nifty concealed display available. So long as the two companies remain technologically advanced and sell detectors, I don't think this argument will ever be put to rest.

Leo

(ps. a couple other regulars had said that mounting the two side by side will result in a biased test, because they interfere with each other)

joe166 · May 2002

I think that it is virtually impossible to test two inferior detectors side by side since a cheap, bad detector leaks emissions which would set off the other. I doubt that either of these two high end detectors would do that. In fact, on Valentines ads he urges people to buy both since they have no questions asked return policies and test them on the road in their cars, although he doesn't say side by side. That shows me a level of confidence that doesn't seem to be matched by Escort whose ads are mainly full of excerpts from these same "tests" which some have cited here. I am satisfied with my V1 and don't think it is obsolete, but what do I know?

scotian · May 2002

The latest V1 has an improved Ka range and optional Ku for use in Europe, I believe (if the 8500 doesn't detect Ku, it would be obsolete in Europe). It would be interesting to know how old these reviews are, more specifically, which V1 they used.

scottc8 · May 2002

Out of curiosity I just checked Valentine's web site for upgrades on mine, which was purchased in October of last year. It's still the latest version (1.8) so any recent reviews should be up to date as far as the V1 is concerned.

Police equipment must vary a lot in different parts of the country. In Colo. I've never had a laser warning and rarely see Ka band. Still a lot of cops using X, and I often get a moderate X warning shortly before the K alarm shows. And what do they have in nursing homes, anyway? There are two of them along my daily commute and I get strong K band alarms from them.

philly7 · May 2002

I haven't been to this message board in a while, but I see the same old controversy is still alive and well. I have always believed that the V-1 provided the best all around performance for the money. I never did understand the $100 problem in the relative scheme of things. Nevertheless, I have a friend who was also a committed V-1 owner and he was looking to upgrade his older radar only unit. Having traded his hopped up Miata on a new Viper that sounded like a good idea. He ordered a brand new V-1 and a Passport 8500 to spend a couple of weeks with both. I managed to get him to lend me the 8500 for the weekend in which I was taking a 300 mile trip from the Seattle area to the San Juan Islands. I had to catch a ferry from Anacortes WA which meant taking rt. 20. About 5 miles before you get to the town, there is the mother of all speed traps. The cop lays out in some old growth at the bottom of a fairly steep bridge and the posted speed limit over the bridge conveniently drops to 45 from 55. I got caught here in 1996 for doing 83 in a 45! Those were my Whistler days. Anyway, the V-1 began to pick up stray KA noise at almost 2.5 miles. The passport didn't even begin to register until I was .5 miles from the bridge. By that time the V-1 was in full tilt mode. Putting aside the issue of directionals (Once you have them you can't imagine how you ever went without!) the
V-1 reaffirmed its standing in my book. I heard my Viper buddy packed up the Passport and sent it back in favor of his V-1. Keep up the good work Mr. Valentine!

palting · May 2002

I have to get used to these state of the art detectors!!! It's been 8 years since I've had one.

Was tooling along a nice 4 lane hi-way, not too busy with traffic this sat morning. Speed limit 60, doing about 80 like everybody else. Crept up to 90. Nice sweeping turns in the country side, little gentle hills and dips, no exit for another 15 miles. Hit 100 then 110, nice and steady, serene, delicious snarl of the exhaust. The Passport Ka band warning goes ballistic for a sec, repeats after a sec or two, then yet again!! You know how you overtake on a two lane road from 45 mph and hit 100 in a blink of an eye without realizing it? The brakes had me down so quick and with a minimum of fuss to 45 I didn't even realize it until I checked! Sheepishly came back up to 60 and took a look around. 1 mile, 2, then 3, 4, nothing. Started to curse false alarms and crept up to 65, when I saw two cars, lights on, and they had pulled over a car. This was already about 5 miles from the initial warning, probably set off when they pulsed the guy they pulled over.

Gotta learn patience is key. With my last detector 8 years ago, cops are usually at the next bend or dip

Love that Passport 8500. Glad I read all those tests. Made the right choice.

kiiwii · May 2002

I, too, was struggling to choose btw passport 8500 and V1. I finally picked the passport because of $130+ of difference ($30+ reward from a shopping club).

My experience with Passport is good. I'm not getting 2+ mile detection like many people do. There is a stationary radar speed trap on I45 N close to Dallas (no cops, just a digital speed display). Passport always starts beeping about 1 mile ahead. The distance maybe just a bit short. Anyhow, I really want to try the V1 someday just to see what the differences are.

stever · August 2002

Stealthy troopers nab speeders

Steve

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blane · August 2002

Boy! Am I glad I live in New York.

ocuihs · August 2002

my recent V1 findings:

Radar Locator pointed to the rear; identified the source, but an overhead sign 150-200 ft ahead, no multiple threats arrows: Ahead & Rear (a blinking arrow indicates which one is the most threatening, in this case should be the rear).

100% agree with "Ordinary Detectors are hoping radar will take a lucky bounce into the front opening."

Thanks V1 for saving my rear end!

bemathew · August 2002

anybody knows how freequent they upgrade the models? As far as I know version 1.8 was introduced atleast 1 year ago.

Also wondering about why Valentine 1 are being sold in Ebay for #380,$390.. when you can have a brand new one for $399?

mike734 · August 2002

Because it is the best detector and worth every penny ;-)

joe166 · August 2002

I don't understand lots of prices on EBay. I see lots of overpriced things there. Some people seem to go into some sort of bidding frenzy and drive prices up to ridiculous levels. Things that I have a good idea of the realistic prices of are ALWAYS overpriced there. Go figure!!

bemathew · August 2002

my point is...why would somebody buy a used one for $390 when you can get a brand new one for $400?? Also consider the fact that warranty for V1 is limited to the original owner, and is Non-Transferrable.....2 days back somebody bought a 1 year old used V1 for $405!!!!!!

Anyway, anybody knows how freequent they upgrade V1? talking to the customer rep on this aspect one was not helpful.

geoffd1 · August 2002

I own an 8500. I bought it new on Ebay for sub-$250 + a small shipping charge.

I decided I didn't like the packaging on the V-1. I have the 8500 mounted above and behind my mirror. That would be impossible with the much bigger V1.

I'm dubious about the C&D radar detector ratings since Valentine One is such a huge advertiser.

My big gripe about the 8500 is that it gets falsed by lots of other radar detectors on Ka-band. I'm glad the police don't use Ka in my area because I've trained myself to ignore Ka alarms. Like any other radar detector, it also hits many X-band false alarms from motion detectors. Someday, someone will slave a radar detector to a GPS so it can learn the location of the all those X-band false alarm sources and filter them out.

kiiwii · August 2002

One of the Uniden radar detectors has GPS locator to sort false radars.

ocuihs · August 2002

In each issue of car magazines like Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track and others:

Where you see ads for 8500, you'll see V1 and vice versa. Example September 2002 Motor Trend pg. 27 (8500) and pg. 51 (V1)

ocuihs · August 2002

Why some people feel one is bigger than the other? Have you check out the latest model sizes?

8500: 1.25" H x 2.85" W x 5.32" L
V1 : 1.00" H x 3.60" W x 4.50" L

joe166 · August 2002

There is no accounting for taste and some people prefer the Escort to the V1. It does get me when the "reasons" cited have little relationship to reality, but far be it from me to try to talk someone into buying a Valentine. It doesn't seem larger than an Escort, but then again, I don't really care which is bigger. My Valentine fits above and on the drivers side of my inside rear view mirror and can't be seen from the outside. With the hard wiring under the trim it is perfect for me. If I ever saw a test which showed some other detector had a clear advantage over the V1, I probably would switch, but no test that I have read shows me a clear difference and my real world experiences are such that I am totally satisfied.

rghessel · August 2002

I've scanned the boards, but couldn't come across a post that easily addresses which radar/laser detector to get.

So, which one should I get? (Never bought one before, so I'm a newbie...)

No detailed explaination neccessary..just a model or two (or a link to a detailed review?)

Thanks!

ruking1 · August 2002

#848

The top three high end models in aphabetical order: 1.Bel 985 2.Passport 8500 3.Valentine 1.
I personally narrowed it down to these three. All are truly neck and neck. The tie breaker for me was price/performance, which by coincidence is ranked in that order, above.

palting · August 2002

As mentioned by ruking1, the top three are listed. They perform comparably well. Personally, I went with the Passport 8500, and have not regretted it. My main reason was that I found the claims and ads of V1 quite arrogant, and there appeared to be more independent tests that went with either the Passport or the Bel.

bolivar · August 2002

has had the Valentine 1 as the leader in their last 2 tests of detectors. By a large margin.

The tests were earlier this year, and about 2-3 years ago.

Of course, maybe Valentine buys the writers and editor better dinners, or hookers, or whatever than the other manufactors.

Radar/Lidar detectors

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