Toyota 4Runner

nedzel · September 2004

VVTi is variable valve timing. Here's my limited understanding of it -- I should have the gist of it correct, but may be off in some of the details.

In older engines, the valve timing is fixed. That is the relationship between where the piston is when the intake and exhaust values open and close is fixed. The problem is that this is a compromise. With VVTI (and other similar engines from other companies), the opening and closing of the intake and exhaust valves can be advanced or retarded with respect to piston top-dead-center at different RPMs. This allows the engine to generate more horsepower, but still have a broad, flat torque curve. In simpler engines, the manufacturer generally has to choose between higher horsepower and lower torque, or lower horsepower but highter torque (particularly at lower RPMs).

Basically, VVTI involves a differnt valvetrain and assorted bits. It is effectively internal to the engine.

In contrast, the TRD supercharger does not change the valvetrain at all. It is effectively external to the engine. The supercharger pushes more air into the engine.

No, you cannot add VVTI on an aftermarket basis.

imluigi · September 2004

How has the gas mileage on the V8 been since you last posted that the V8 was getting in the twenties.
What octane are you using? The salesman is telling me to use regular and the mileage would go up.

nippononly · September 2004

of the VVTi to the V-8 is going to give it 40 more hp - quite a change. I wonder how much torque rises along with this hp increase.

It is a good thing Toyota has finally put the 5-speed auto in both V-6s and V-8s. The '05 is a real bargain now compared with the '03, which had either less power or less speeds in the trans, not to mention square plastic cladding on the early models, all for about the same price the Runner is today.

stove1 · September 2004

gives you 2mpg better, about 15% power boost. The best part is constant high torque from low to high rpm.

The negative is if it fails, your piston will hit the valves.

nippononly · September 2004

VVTi does not affect whether or not the engine is an interference design, which I do not think the V-8 is, but I have not checked. The Gates Rubber site is a good reference for that, in the timing belt section.

rjordan · September 2004

Kjack, The rear air suspension is only available on the V8 limited Edition models. The V8 models are not due on the showroom floors until January. Bob.

hotdogonastick · September 2004

i was wondering if it would be possible to eventually do a head swap/ecu reprogram to upgrade the non-vvti to a vvti on the iforce v8. i know with "frankenstein" hondas (b series motors) that non vtec blocks were combined with vtec heads/ecu at outside garages. i assume mechanically that can happen but will dealerships do it and if so would you think the warranty would change? i see benefits of: increased mpg and more power. what are you opinions.

kjack100 · September 2004

Thanks for the replys. I have a 2003 V8 Limited and love the rear air suspension. Great for towing and for heavy rear loads.

Regarding VVTi, is this a proven Toyota technology or something you should wait on for the bugs to be worked out?

nippononly · September 2004

is on many Toyota models already, and has been for years. Corolla, Camry, Highlander, Celica, just to name a few.

nedzel · September 2004

hotdogonastick: I don't know whether a VVTi head could be put on a non-VVTi block. I'm 100% sure, however, that no dealer would ever do it and that doing so would void your warranty.

As for the reliability of VVTi itself, Toyota, Honda, and BMW (and probably others) have had this technology out for a number of years. It's well proven.

wayne9269 · October 2004

was tryin' to chose between the 04 pilot and the 04 4runner. any suggestions from all of you fine people? i live in wisconsin so i deal with some nasty winters but that would be about it. ride? quality? build? all replys would be appreciated. thanks

nippononly · October 2004

in the Pilot, no? The 4Runner is a more rugged vehicle though, and also bigger. If all you are doing is snow driving and nothing off pavement, and you don't need the extra space of the 4Runner over that of the Pilot, have you perhaps considered the Highlander instead of the Runner? It is closer in size I believe, and more of an on-pavement-and-snow oriented vehicle.

Get the Runner if you need that extra space though.

kullenberg · October 2004

I went through the same decision process, and ended up with the 4Runner. I liked the Pilot, and as an over the road vehicle, in wet or mildly slippery conditions it was very nice. However, when dealing with severe winter conditions, here in the Mtns of NC, the 4Runner won out, hands down. It has a far more robust 4WD system, with the capability to lock the center differential, which being a Torsen unit, apportions torque to the axle having the most grip, which is really significant on slick hills. I now have 11,000 miles on my 04 V8 Sport, and wouldn't think of trading for a Pilot.
Cheers
Pat

fish2 · October 2004

I am considering the 4Runner over the Pilot. I am stuck as to get the V6 or V8. When would I see the most difference?

opus5 · October 2004

While I don't have enough personal experience to suggest whether the 4Runner or Pilot is the better vehicle in snow, I recall the basic premise behind the design of the Pilot was to "defeat winter", or something like that. That would suggest that the design of the "all-wheel" drive system on the Pilot was optimized for snow conditions. You may want to look into this further. YMMV

nippononly · October 2004

the V8 for '05 has a big power bump over the V-6, but my experience with the V-6 is that it is already more than enough power to keep up with the speediest of the family transport out there. You might notice a slight difference in high-speed highway conditions, for passing for instance.

Now if you ever tow, or if you will be offroading or carrying max capacity passengers very often, you will probably want the larger engine.

oldnavycdr · October 2004

First let me say my '03 V6 Sport is a gem. No problems other than the reported radio glitch (one time) and the occasional sulfur smell when I hop on it tanked up with 87 octane. I'm extremely pleased with this vehicle.

I am considering some window deflectors because the vehicle design allows water to drip in. Do they work? What brand do you recommend? How about wind noise? Are you pleased with their performance? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

junglejim · October 2004

"The 4Runner is a more rugged vehicle though, and also bigger. If all you are doing is snow driving and nothing off pavement, and you don't need the extra space of the 4Runner over that of the Pilot, have you perhaps considered the Highlander instead of the Runner? It is closer in size I believe, and more of an on-pavement-and-snow oriented vehicle.

Get the Runner if you need that extra space though."

Extra space of the 4Runner? That is one thing where the Pilot has the definite advantage. The is much more cargo room, passenger room, and head room in the Pilot.

The 4Runner wins on many points, but not space.

The two vehicles are very different. It all depends on your needs.

nippononly · October 2004

to be so confusing - what I meant was the extra space of the 4Runner over the Highlander.

nedzel · October 2004

I've got a 2003 4Runner. My boss has a Pilot. The Pilot is bigger.

If you are looking to pull a trailer or go offroad, I'd pick the 4Runner. If all you care about is taking the kids to the mall when there's 3" of snow on the ground, then the Pilot will do just fine.

canddmeyer · October 2004

Hi Wayne. I have the 2003 SR5 4x4. I hunt & sometimes need 4-LO, so I chose the 4Runner over a Trailblazer. My sister lives in Wauwatosa & has an Explorer. She rarely locks in 4x4. My 4Runner SR5 rides rough with Dunlop factory tires, so this may not be best for you. The optional Sport model or the Limited version with air suspension I would suspect ride better with less rebound. Softer is better as far as I'm concerned when driving on ice.
Anyway, read up on your choice(s) & you'll find what suits you best. Good luck.

pdc611 · October 2004

Is it true that the Alternator will have problems or need to be replaced more often if a vehicle has DRL?

I'm about the purchase a '04 V6 Sport, are there any concerns that I need to keep in mind before I drive off the lot?

wayne9269 · October 2004

thanks to all of you who replied. your comments are well received.

alphawolf · October 2004

I've been boppin' around Edmunds. I'm transitioning from the IT field to Real Estate and moving from NY to FL beginning of the year.

I've been internet shopping for a vehicle that will make me happy personally as well as serve the needs of my new profession.

I need something fairly roomy, nifty image, reliable, and basically nice enough to be like a 2nd home as I'll be driving around quite a bit.

I'm trying to 'have my cake and eat it too'.

The vehicles I've narrowed it down to:

4Runner Limited RWD w/ 3rd row seating, leather, V6, and other nice options.

The other vehicles are Chrysler 300c Infinity G35 Acura TL as far as cars...

Pathfinder and Highlander as far as SUV's.

As you can see- I'm a bit conflicted.

I feel the 300c suits me best as far as cars go and strikes a great balance between a big vehicle and something fun.

On the other hand it would be nice to be able to drive around a large group of adults who come down from NY to FL for a weekend house hunt...as my friend did.

Can the 4Runner be a nice place to spend several hours a day? The reason I'd lean towards and SUV is the extra space and I feel an SUV would be more functional as a mobile office.

How truck like is the ride in the 4Runner? Yeah- the Highlander has a smoother ride I'm sure...thing is- it's really _boring_.

I won't be buying until January 05...so I have a while.

So, can I get into a 4Runner Limited V6 with lots of luxury options under 40k? Would the 4Runner be a good choice?

TIA

Dean

canddmeyer · October 2004

If you get the 4Runner Limited, then get the air suspension for a better ride. FYI - new Nissan Pathfinder is debuting shortly. Also 3rd row seating is a useless dealer markup IMO for a vehicle as small as a 4Runner. Good luck.

nedzel · October 2004

I'd skip the 4Runner. In real estate, you'll be driving around A LOT! Mileage will be important. The 4Runner does not get great mileage, end of story.

The 4Runner ride is pretty good, for a truck. But it isn't a car and certainly is not in the same league as the cars you mentioned.

glenski01 · October 2004

I happily own an 04 4Runner 4x4 Sport V8, Stratosphere Mica (and yes I have that awful sulfur smell). Overall the vehicle has been great and a joy to drive.

I will try to explain my sunroof (moonroof,whatever) problem. Has anyone had any experience with the sunroof motor clicking to open further all by itself when driving down the road. My sunroof, when fully open often times will sound like it is opening more, sometimes it will open by itself to fully open position if I had it around 90% open, other times when it is open 100% it still will try to open further at odd times, today in 15-20 minutes worth of Fwy driving at around 75mph, the sunroof had the sound of trying to open 5 or 6 times in 15 minutes of driving. Seems odd, sunroof operates ok when I push the open or close buttons.

I have not taken it back to the dealer yet, curious about others out there. Thanks

stove1 · October 2004

The haunted sunroof again. Its really the computer adjusting the wind deflector angle according to your speed. Cuts down wind noise .

Very annoying if you ask me.

md4runnerman · October 2004

oh, so that's what I am hearing. Doesn't really bother me though, but I was thinking like the other poster that the roof was trying to open wider when it was already open all the way.

glenski01 · October 2004

Well that makes sense and answers my question. AND yes it is very annoying, I will have to turn up the stereo. I can now see its purpose, but would think it monitors speed in larger increments, and not self adjust so often, seems to click on to adjust or whatever at very minor speed variances, and at times very frequently.

Thanks for the answer, at least I know I am not dreaming of this noise.

hotelseven · October 2004

Took my 2003 Sport in to the dealer today and got the sulphur smell taken care of. It was a full day job (at least it was in the shop all day) but it seems to have worked well. They were more than happy to do it and it was no charge. I would highly suggest anyone who has the same problem take it in and get them to change it.

genghis · October 2004

I want to upgrade my factory installed 3 in 1 stereo system and I would like to get JBL 3 in 1 with 10 speakers but my local Toyota dealer said it is impossible to upgrade, I should upgrade in the factory before the production (only option)!!!! So Im looking after market stereo something between $700 to $1200 price ranges and must be look good in the dash (flash installation)
Has anyone put in an after market stereo in to a 2004 4Runner? What brand has a good sound and look good in the dash???
Any suggestions
Thank you in advance

kheintz1 · October 2004

I own a 2003 4Runner Limited with DVD/Nav/premium sound system, so I've not felt the need to upgrade. However, I previously owned a 2002 Explorer in which I had the stereo system upgraded, and I would like to offer you a few thoughts and ideas about upgrading your 4Runner's stereo system.

Visit a few car audio shops, and you'll likely find that most any of today's aftermarket
head-units (i.e., CD player/radio tuner/cassette deck) look pretty ridiculous, since they seem to be targeting a consumer market consisting mostly of teenagers, hip-hoppers, gangsters, and assorted wanna-be's. These aftermarket
head-units are typically festooned with all sorts of garbage, including many highly obnoxious and gaudy flashing lights, illuminated displays, etc. In addition, they're also typically festooned with an excess of tiny, silly buttons and many useless bells and whistles. Good luck finding a reasonably priced aftermarket head-unit that looks and functions like something a mature, sophisticated adult might want in their vehicle.

So then, what is one to do? Well, when I had the stereo system upgraded in that 2002 Explorer, I elected to keep the stock head-unit in place. (I'll return to this strategy later on in this discussion.) I then had a local (and well regarded) car audio shop install a power amp made by Precision Power Industries (http://www.precisionpower.com/default.asp). This shop pulled out the stock head unit and then connected its output jacks to a nice set of aftermarket interconnect cables, which were then routed to the power amp situated in the rear of the truck, below the floor. (The newer Explorers have aft, below-the-floor cargo spaces that are ideal for this sort of power amp. The new 4Runners don't have a similar compartment, so you'll have to get creative if you decide to add a power amp. Also, adding an aftermarket power amplifier requires a significant amount of wiring under the vehicle's hood, which I left to the experts.)

Next, I had the stock speakers in the front doors and rear side doors replaced with good-quality aftermarket speakers, along with upgraded speaker wires. Keep in mind here that it's really the front-door speakers which are the most important in terms of obtaining better audio quality for the front cabin occupants. On the other hand, the rear door speakers are less important, since they should only be providing a bit of pleasant "rear ambience" sound for the front cabin occupants. [Just like home audio, car audio usually sounds best when most (if not all) of the reproduced sound emanates from the FRONT speakers, since this is apt to create the best psychoacoustic illusion of soundstaging and stereo imaging in which the listener feels as though they're correctly situated in FRONT of the performance.]

Thus, it is often wise to choose the best sounding aftermarket speakers you can afford for the front doors, while spending less on the rear, side door speakers. (Of course, you might just leave the existing rear speakers in place, since they're really not that important for the front cabin occupants anyway.) Because the front-door speakers are situated low on the doors, consider a set of aftermarket speakers which may possess a bit more midrange and high-frequency "brightness", such as certain Rockford-Fosgate speakers.

By retaining the stock head-unit and using it to drive a good-quality aftermarket power amplifier combined with high-quality aftermarket speakers, one is essentially converting the stock head-unit into a sort of *pre-amp*/CD player/tuner/cassette deck. Of course, this strategy relies upon the stock
head-unit having fairly decent electronic performance to begin with, and chances are good that it's probably just as good or even better sounding than most of the overpriced aftermarket garbage head-units being hustled these days.

There are several advantages to the above mentioned strategy, including:
(1) There is no need to worry about trying to install and cosmetically fit an aftermarket head-unit with incompatible dimensions (and objectionable looks and features?) into the vehicle's console. Do you really want someone taking a saw to your vehicle's console, and then gluing on faux plastic spacers in an effort to make it look "stock"??
(2) Car stereo thieves are often highly adept at recognizing the cosmetic cues and clues that may give away the presence of an aftermarket head-unit. (This, in turn, is an incentive for car audio dealers to try to sell you an annoying and overpriced car alarm system.) On the other hand, by retaining the existing head unit and mating it with a well-concealed power amplifier and upgraded in-door and/or in-dash speakers, a car thief will see nothing but what appears to be just another uninteresting stock audio system, and there will be no clues as to the existence of the power amp and upgraded speakers.

Even if you do nothing but upgrade the front-door speakers with a pair of excellent aftermarket speakers, the sound quality will likely improve considerably. That said, adding a great sounding power amplifier will likely improve the sound even further. Also, it is worth noting that the real sonic advantages of installing a high-quality power amplifier have little to do with "loudness". Rather, it has everything to do with achieving greater "dynamic range"; more authoritative and precise control of the speaker elements; greater sonic clarity; and greater immunity to amplifier "clipping", a condition that may quickly destroy speakers. In other words, a higher powered amplifier is less likely to destroy speakers than a lower powered amp, since the latter will tend to "clip" much sooner. Clipping is tantamount to dumping DC (direct current) into the speakers.

jfeger · October 2004

Its been a while since reading/posting here. If I search sulphur, of course I get the million stories of people complaining, the theories, etc. So now I am back and I see you were able to get it fixed. Has Toyota finally admitted to a problem and they are now fixing it? Could someone fill me in? Im in Missouri, US.

02accrdv6ex · October 2004

I am toying with the idea of an '05 SR5 V6 4wd. One thing (among many) I am curious about is any extra noise while in 4WD mode (vs regular 2wd rear drive mode). I had a '94 pathfinder XE V6 5sp and it made all types of extra noise (hard to describe... like a whoosh type sound) from the around the front transfer case area when the vehicle was put in 4wd (hi mode).
In 2wd mode, the noise was not there.
I know this was normal for that vehicle at the time because I drove others and noticed same thing. Also, mine had a very basic non-center differential type system meant for non-dry pavement only.

Has anyone noticed anything like this on the '04/'05 V6 4wd 4-runners? (I believe the V8 has a different, always engaged, AWD system?) Is the vehicle just as quiet when 4wd (hi) is engaged as driving in 2wd mode? Or is it noisier like my old Pathfinder. I have searched this forum and didn't really see this issue mentioned.

djlandkpl · October 2004

There is a TSB that has the dealer replace the catalytic converter and reprogram the ECU. I had it done last week. The smell is gone.

polartoy · October 2004

Hotelseven, I see you are also in Canada. I cannot get my dealer to do this as he says there are no tsb's for V8 engines. Was yours the V8 and do you have a tsb number? Thanks

hotelseven · October 2004

I have a V6 Sport. Sorry but I do not know the actual TSB number. The dealer was more than happy to take care of it though. Did he at least admit that there is a TSB for the V6? Wonder if you took it to another dealership? I took mine to a different one that I bought it from, just due to location. Both my origional dealer and the one closest to my home offered to fix it.

Sorry I can't help regarding your V8....Perhaps someone else here can?

canddmeyer · October 2004

I have a 2003 4Runner V6 4wd I keep in the AWD mode all the time. There is no additional noise. The AWD mode is separate from the HI or LO modes. I will add however that its best to be in the mode you want to be in before you need to be there, cuz this vehicle is the slowest I've ever had when shifting into any 4wd mode, and it usually wants to be moving before it shifts into the chosen mode. Getting a shift from a neutral start takes forever (8+ seconds) if at all.

gcmello · October 2004

The TSB for the V-8 is: EG020-04. It covers the 2003 and early 2004. I had it done this past summer. So far so good--no sulfur smell. The dealer will replace the catalytic converter and reprogram the ECU. They'll have to order the converter which will mean 2 trips to the dealership, unless you're able to convince the service manager (when you make the appointment) to order it ahead of time.

Send an email to me at: gmello@anteon.com, and I'll send you the actual TSB you can print and take with you to the dealership.

4rnr · October 2004

Polartoy tell the dealer to keep searching. The tsb for the V8's was issued on Aug. 9th, 2004 in Canada. Unfortunately the US tsb# is for the US only, Toyota Canada has their own tsb numbers up here. I know I've had it done and no complaints to date(no smell, no change in mpg). In fact I think the tranny shifts even smoother since the fix.

jaredmsd · October 2004

Okay, you got one opinion from kheintz1, which was well thought out and pretty on-the-money, I'll offer another.

First off, consider yourself lucky that you didn't spend the money on the JBL system, it is overpriced for what you get.

I do disagree with kheintz1 on one point. There are many head units available which aren't TOO flashy and actually are tremendous when it comes to user interface design. I personally have always like Eclipse head units for their clean design and extremely high quality. They aren't the sort of head units that you will find in Best Buy or Circuit City though. You'll have to find a more local high-end shop. I highly recommend checking out a few shops and getting opinions. Of course they will try and sell you, that is their job, but I garauntee you can find at least one honest/good/reasonably-priced shop around. Tell them what type of music you listen to, and the sound you are looking for. You should be able to get away with one good amp (PPI, JLAudio, etc.), a good high-end headunit, and some mid-end speakers for under $1200.

Oh, and you don't need 10 speakers to get a good sound. Buy 5 GOOD speakers for the price of 10 crappy speakers, and feed them with a good amp, and you'll be happy. Plus, you'll save on the installation costs.

I promise you that 4 JLAudio or MBQuart component speakers (or two for that matter) can kill 10 JBL speakers.

-Jared

scrappy5 · October 2004

Great stuff, kheintz1 and jaredmsd. I have an o4Runner, V6 Sport and took delivery with the basic stereo system from Toyota with single cd and cassette. I recently looked at a Nav system that fits into the head unit and includes am/fm/dvd and satellite radio controls. I forget the manufacturer name, but it cost $ 2300 installed, with no speakers. What are your thoughts to combine the Nav system and satellite radio into the head unit, along with the audio system ?

rjordan · October 2004

Hello,
My owners manual states that my vehicle has a total capacity to carry 950 lbs. of passengers and luggage. But the 2004 brochure states that the vehicle has a payload of 1260 lbs. With that said, I am trying to figure out if I can carry one adult passenger if I tow a trailer and load weighing 5000 lbs. The total capacity for the weight of the truck, passengers, luggage, trailer and load is 9600 lbs. I am trying also to determine which of the above two statements is correct, (950 or 1260 lbs.). I weigh 200 lbs and it appears that if my calculations are correct, there is not sufficient weight left over to carry a passenger weighing 200 lbs without overloading the vehicle using the 950 figure. My vehicle has a weight carrying hitch with a capacity for 5000 lbs. Would someone with a knowledge of towing advise me. Thanks. Bob.

polartoy · October 2004

Thanks 4rnr. Was at the dealer yesterday and they denied any tsb for v8 in Canada. The US number does not apply here. Talked to Toyota Canada and they mumbled about differences in specs between here and US. Same smell though. I have around 70ooo km on the truck and same sickening smell. Never does disappear. I will call Toyota Canada and try and get a number from them hopefully. Thanks for the info.

flm · October 2004

I have to agree with jaredmsd the JBL system sounded muddy. I was expecting crystal clear sound since it had so many speakers and touted a premium sound system.

But on a side note, I noticed no problems like vibrations, smell or rattles and the '04 V8 Ltd I test drove was very responsive I'm very impressed. Can't wait til '05 V8's come out.

corancher · October 2004

Some good news from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has hit the wires today. Stability control (standard in recent 4Runners) has a major positive effect in reducing single-vehicle accidents. This makes logical sense for high clearance vehicles like offroad-capable SUVs, which, by necessity, have a higher center of gravity and therefore might handle poorly or be more likely to roll over in emergency situations.

Here's the news release: http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr102804_1.htm

After experimenting with the 4Runner's stability control in some very slick conditions (but not in traffic!) around the turn of the year (I posted a summary here then) I can also say that stability control should also help keep you out of the occasional ditch. It's a good complement to traction control and ABS, and I'm happy that Toyota chose to include the whole set in the 4Runners.

kylek11 · October 2004

Just drove off the lot with a 2004 Limited 4WD Full Time V8 demo, 5000 miles. On occasions when I come to a complete stop it feels like a clunk or downshift in the transmission is the best way to describe it. I will continue to monitor and hope the response posts to [2003help #7367] are correct. Any further help appreciated.

djlandkpl · October 2004

Get a grease gun and load up the U joints and sliding yokes on the driveshaft. The driveshaft is dry from the factory. Greasing the joints should make the banging go away. It's worked for me.

stevie9944 · October 2004

Does anyone know if there is a way to program the 4Runner (2003+) to also raise the tailgate window with the remote control? The reason I ask is the user's manual says (page 21):

"The back window opening program by wireless remote control can be changed or disabled. For details, contact your Toyota dealer."

I figure this means there is someway to raise the window via the remote -- how handy would that be?? Sticking the key in the tailgate to raise that window is a bit of a pain. So, if anyone knows how to change this, let us all know!!

Toyota 4Runner

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