Toyota 4Runner

alfster1 · September 2003

For those of you who really want more luxury or car like feel, you can always go for the Lexus GX470. If you want wood trim, that can be added aftermarket for a couple of hundred dollars.

The 4Runner is a true 4x4 SUV. It isn't meant to be a car. To be more carlike, it would have to be made with a unibody construction and much lower ground clearance.

suvowner1 · September 2003

to make the 4 runner more car-like would completely defeat the purpose of its existence. Thats why toyota created the highlander, it is more car like, why chrysler made the pacifica, why nissan made the murano, so they would all have a definite car like suv.........there still needs to be real offroad capable suv for people like us, who want the comfort of knowing they can go almost anywhere they want in their vehicle and that it is built to withstand it.

aheck · September 2003

Has anyone thought about painting the silver rear bumper? This is really the only part of the outside of the truck that my wife doesn't like (and I have to admit it looks kinda funny myself) and she wanted me to ask before we bought the truck. Not a deal stopper, just curious.

Aaron

alfster1 · September 2003

Hmm, I assume you are not considering purchasing the 4Runner in Titanium. It does tend to stand out on the other colors, which is the reason I ended up purchasing a Titanium 4Runner.

If you choose to paint it, find a good paint shop. I am sure that shouldn't be much of a problem.

kheintz1 · September 2003

In my opinion, my '03 4Runner Ltd's interior is more luxurious, well-appointed, and tasteful than many so-called "luxury" cars. First, there's a helluva lot of LEATHER in this truck, including places where many other manufacturers would just use cheap vinyl. Second, the faux granite trim, in my opinion, looks far more attractive, durable, functional, contemporary, and UNIQUE than either faux wood or glued-on wood veneer. To my tastes, "wood-like" trim often strikes me as looking rather ostentatious, pretentious, and "geriatric". ("Have you any Grey Poupon..?") Third, I find the layout of the cockpit, controls, and center console of the 4Runner Ltd. (especially with the navigation/DVD system) to look hip and high-tech, whille also being very functional and ergonomic. Fourth, this is the first Japanese, mid-sized SUV I've encountered whose leather seats (both front and rear) are truly comfortable and designed to well accomodate larger individuals. This truck is very comfy on a long drive!!

In summary, the new 4Runner is a most remarkable mid-sized SUV-- it combines the legendary quality and on/off-road capabilities of a Toyota 4WD SUV, combined with a high degree of real interior (and exterior pampering and attention to detail. While most other "SUVs" are really little more than suburban soccer-mom shuttles masquerading as the Marlboro Man, this truck is the real deal. While I may never take it up through the off-road trails of the Rocky Mtns., I'm glad to know it's quite capable of handling far more than just loose gravel or light and shallow muck.

resumespeed · September 2003

I think it was pretty chintze of Toyota to install a cheap Tire pressure system in the new '04 models. Other systems I have seen display the pressure readout for all 4 tires on an overhead display or in the cluster area. A $40k all-new design vehicle shouldn't have something as simple as a warning light, pretty lame in my opinion.

tedcruiser · September 2003

I am 6'4" tall and sat in a 4runner today. One with a sunroof and one without. As far as I could tell, the seats were at the lowest position. My head brushed the ceiling with the sunroof. How do other tall guys fit in this thing? Any advice? I wouldn't get one unless it had a sunroof.

Do any options put leather on the door panels? Or are they always cloth?

thanks

alfster1 · September 2003

I agree with your post. The faux granite with the silver plastic trim lead to a definite high tech look. There is definitely alot of leather in the 4Runner, which the E Class Mercedes does not include as standard (a luxury car?). Toyota gives you great bang for the buck and you can have most of the bells and whistles.

I do wish that there was an auto up/down feature for both the passenger and driver side windows. Also, Heated mirrors would be a nice option. I think there is no excuse to not make them standard, at least on the Limited.

As far as tire pressure monitors go, I think that isn't a big feature for the 04. I purchased pressure caps for my 03 v8 4Runner Limited with NAV and it only cost $20. They are an accurate and simple solution.

714cut · September 2003

They are standard (I have them on my Sport) here in Canada. Not in the U.S.?

4runner04 · September 2003

I AM CURRENTLY IN THE MARKET TO PURCHASE A 2004
4RUNNER V-8 SPORT WITH LEATHER. I'M CONSIDERING THE STRATASPHERE MICA, BUT I'M THINKING IT WILL SHOW DIRT EASILY. MY OTHER CHOICE IS TITANIUM METALLIC. ANY INPUT WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

sacstate1 · September 2003

My biggest beef is with the HVAC controls. The dimmly lit switches make choosing your HVAC preference a guessing game. With the sunroof open during the day the illuminated gauges are worthless! The auto window-up feature for the driver is a PITA also, it is too sensitive. If you barely attempt to raise the window the auto feature kicks in and takes it to the top, almost impossible to just 'crack' the drivers or rear window. Otherwise, awesome vehicle.

Galileo757 · September 2003

<>
The sunroof does reduce head clearance, I don't see anyway around it other than tilt your seat back, you will then have a gangsta look, lol.
<<Do any options put leather on the door panels? Or are they always cloth?>>
The Limited models has standard leather and the side door panels are leather or feel/look like leather?, the Limited has heated front seats and side mirrors.

alfster1 · September 2003

I purchased the Titanium over the Stratasphere Mica for precisely that reason. The Titanium seems to look cleaner for longer periods of time in between washings under normal use. The gold color is another color that you may want to consider, but I don't like it personally and it is harder to find at dealerships, in my experience.

coolpop36 · September 2003

The lack of color selection was, and still is, my only gripe with the 4Runner when I ordered. I narrowed it down like this - I live in Florida, so I can't get Black; Stratosphere Mica is gorgeous, but too close to black; the Natural White is TOO white, like a refrigerator or a washing machine, so that was out; Galactic Grey didn't appeal to me at all, almost had a pea-green look to it in the sun; the Dorado Gold was nice, but it just didn't do it for me.

So, it was narrowed down to the Titanium or the Pacific Blue. Now, a clean, shiny Titanium 4Runner looks great, but there are way too many silver vehicles on the road, and the two interior color choice do not match at all, so the Pacific Blue won by default. I wasn't all that thrilled with it, since I had seen an SR5 in that color (with the grey cladding, ugh) but I really changed my tune once I saw a clean and shiny Limited in that color. Looked awesome.

Should have it by the end of the year and am counting the days.

alfster1 · September 2003

I stand corrected. The 03 4runner limited does have heated mirrors! It's good to know before it starts snowing. LOL

I guess the reason that I didn't notice was because to turn them on, you need to turn on the rear defogger.

vodgut · September 2003

Two weeks after I got my '03 Limited V8 4WD, we got 3 feet of snow in Denver. It handled it easily. The stock tires I got on the truck were Michelin Cross Terrains. They've seemed good both on and off road, but that could have been just the 4Runner's native ability.

I think you were considering the V6? In the V8, it's always in 4wd, but you can switch to 2wd with the V6 system. I'm not aware of any speed limitations with the part time system, but you'd probably get a better answer from a V6 owner who can look at their owners manual (which is written in clear English....)

aheck · September 2003

Ok, we're ready to purchase at the end of the month. For payment reasons, I'm leaning towards a Sr5 V6 and adding, roof rack, 17" wheels and leather seats. Brings the invoice up to about $26,500 or so. The Limited, without any additional options, seems to be right about $30,500, or an additional $4000. But the wife makes the comment, for only $4000, why not just get the Limited. I'm trying to determine everything the Limited would have over my equipped SR5.

Here's what I have so far: auto-headlamps, leather-trimmed interior, power seats, heated seats, silver/granite trim (will this even look good with tan leather?), leather shifting knob, double decker cargo, dual climate control, alarm, silver roof rack and running boards, colored key'd heated mirrors, Homelink, vanity mirror, electrochromatic mirror with compass, rear-seat audio, 115V AC outlet.

I'm trying to decide what the $4000 really gets you here. The dual AC/Heat would be nice. The leather interior might go better with the leather seats versus just adding the seats in the SR5. The capability of adding the X-REAS might be nice in the Limited, but I've never driven one with the shocks, so I don't even know what I'm missing. This will be for 99.99% on-road driving. Mostly for hauling stuff around and transporting a newborn soon.

If anyone has any other options I may have missed above, or any other comments, I'd like to hear them. Oh, forgot 1 thing. I am taller, around 6'1" and don't really want the sunroof option. Is it very dificult to find a Limited without a sunroof? I am checking all of the dealer inventory sites in the area, and all of their Limited seem to have sunroofs.

Thanks everyone,
Aaron

vodgut · September 2003

Yeah, from what I've seen it's difficult to find them. You might have to special order to get exactly what you're looking for. They put the sunroof, side airbags, JBL, rear spoiler, daytime running lights, and maybe another option or two that I've forgotten on about ALL the limiteds. X-REAS varies by region. You can probably check Toyota's website to see what configurations are available in your region. Chances are they're going to have a lot of options on them by default, and if you don't want all of them, you'll have to special order and wait 2-6 months to receive the vehicle.

nedzel · September 2003

When I was looking, I never say a Limited without a sunroof. For me, heated seats, XREAS, and side airbags were must have items. So that pretty much forced me into a Limited, though I do wish it didn't come with a sunroof.

You might consider doing a special order to get just what you want.

3toyboy · September 2003

David - what maps did you use/would you recommend? In a little less than 2 weeks, I'll be in SW Colo., with 6 or 7 days to explore the Uncompahgres/San Juans. Any tips or comments would be great. Sounds like the two of you had a great outing.

oscarz2 · September 2003

Yes, it shows dust quicker (any dark color does), and it looks dark (not black) when not in the sunlight but when the light hits it...it's magic. Being in AZ, the light be hittin it a lot.

jagsdad · September 2003

The X-Reas improves "on-road" performance, sharp turns. Most people who have done back-to-back comparisons have been sold on the X-Reas. But you will most likely have to order it if you want X-reas on the Limited. It's an option, but good luck finding it at a dealer. If you can find it, it will be on a 4WD and will also come with the air suspension, another $2k.

I don't think your going to find a Ltd without a sunroof on a dealer lot either.

Do you want side/rear airbag? To me that was an important safety option and well worth the $. I I don't know if you can put after market leather on those. The airbags are in the seats and doors.

Lastly, with the Ltd you get power seats too.

kheintz1 · September 2003

I opted for white, and I find it to look quite stunning, especially when those big, black Michelin Cross Terrains are dressed with Zaino's Tire Gloss. [I've also been getting a lot of unsolicited comments from perfect stangers (car/truck enthusiasts) about how sharp my white 4Runner looks, but of course, we all have differing tastes.] And, contrary to what you might expect, the white paint tends to not show dust, and tends to look cleaner for a much longer period of time between washings, during mild weather seasons. I've previously owned an Explorer with Ford's "Estate Green" paint (a metallic spruce green) and after washing it, it typically looked coated with road dust within a day, often after just a short drive around town. Let's face it, dark colored cars tend to look dirty in very short order, and darker metallic flake paints can also seem to be brutally revealing of any defects in the clear coat, such as swirl marks, scratches, etc. Also, darker colors are of course more prone to fading, and they tend to absorb rather than reflect the sun's hot rays. On the other hand, light colored vehicles will show mud, winter road grime, and other dark gunk more readily than dark colors.

The Mica color is indeed VERY attractive when utterly clean, but it is also very dark, and here in Ohio it is exceedingly common and popular. In fact, I'm seeing more 4Runner's in Mica than any other available color, but so far I haven't seen any others in white. Yes, this white is definitely W-H-I-T-E, but I feel it is not only elegant and striking, but also relatively unique among the new 4Runners on the road at this time. That said, there will always be advantages and disadvantages with any exterior paint scheme, as well as drivers with unique tastes and preferences. Unfortunately, this vehicle is currently being produced with a very limited number of exterior color options, and most of us are surely buying this vehicle based primarily on its engineering and overall "physique", rather than merely on the currently available paint schemes. I'm enjoying and in love with my strikingly white 4Runner, and when I climb out of her, I simply can't resist stopping and turning back to take yet another look, and feeling so proud and grateful that I own such a fine SUV.

714cut · September 2003

Don't you also get load levelling suspension in Limited (you do here in Canada)and foldable outside mirrors? To me there is a long list of differences mentioned and for $4000 it seems to me the Limited is good value.
Also in the small points department the vanity mirrors are illuminated in the Limited.

jagsdad · September 2003

By "load levelling suspension" I take it you mean the air suspension. That is an option on the Limited. It costs about $2k extra.

nedzel · September 2003

jagsdad: When I was shopping for 03 Limiteds here in MA in August, there were quite a few with XREAS on the lots. Same with the side air bags. You could get them with the 6 disc or with nav. But all had sunroofs.

69mach1 · September 2003

Anyone ever wonder why Toyota put such light colored gray carpet in their 2003 Sport models with the charcoal seats? To make matters worse, the optional floor mats are even a lighter gray.

Those carpets and mats are going to get mighty dirty in a hurray, if you don't buy other floor mats to protect your optional $100 floor mats.

vodgut · September 2003

It varies by region. Pretty much all the Limited's here in CO when I was shopping had X-REAS. Looking at the Chicago area, none of those did. I definitely wanted it, so luckily the local region had it. I didn't see any with the air suspension, though. I think that if you do get the air suspension, it requires X-REAS, but X-REAS doesn't mean air suspension.

Around here, there were only a few with NAV's, but the rest had JBL (and boy does it sound good....). Didn't see any without sunroofs.

As for colors, the Titanium does look good. Only reason I didn't consider it was my other car was already silver (Audi A4). I like black, too, but that would give me silver and black, and I hate the Raiders (glad to see 'em thrashed last night by the most excellent Broncos) so I just couldn't have a silver and a black vehicle. I also don't like how darker vehicles heat up in the summer sun. Stratospheric Mica was good, but it was the same color as the vehicle it replaced, and a bit dark. So we searched for and got a Pacific Blue one. Not too dark, not to light, and I think it looks good on the truck....

4runner04 · September 2003

Thanks everyone for your input on colors. I will be purchasing my 4 runner within the next two weeks. Still trying to choose a color, I live in Ms and there seems to be alot more Titanium Metallics around than the Stratasphere Mica.

oscarz2: How long have you had your 4 runner? Also, have you noticed if the Stratasphere Mica shows scratches more than a lighter color?

jaredmsd · September 2003

I skipped three pages, so pardon me if this has been written already.

Nu4runner, since you said you live in Cali., you pretty much have no worries about the sulphur. No one, that I can recall who lives in Cali has reported a sulphur smell problem. Our state has much lower sulphur content than any other state, so we don't experience the same problems as other states.

-Jared

nu4runner · September 2003

Hey thanks jaredmsd, I've been following about 4 or 5 boards looking into this. I haven't noticed too many posts coming from CA about the smell but it's still something I'm concerned with. Glad to see it hasn't been too big of a problem here. I'm still looking around for some people to ask in person, but I haven't seen too many 03's around at the time. I'm getting close to getting one though, although I'm kinda leaning towards getting an '04 (although I know there isn't much diff, esp. with the exhaust/smell). Thanks again.

[Deleted User] · September 2003

With the 04 models, can you now get leather as an option in the SR5 and Sport? They didn't on the 03 I purchased a few months ago, wish it was a factory option, not sure if I want to get aftermarket.

oscarz2 · September 2003

I've had it for 2 weeks, haven't even waxed it yet. It was built in June so I guess I should wax it now. I don't have any scratches yet but to answer your question- a dark color will always show scratches more than a light color. Even so, I like the Stratosphere the most. In my opinion, most of the colors look really good. Different strokes.

rensho · September 2003

CA sulfur being so low that the exhaust getting into the cabin doesn't smell; does that say we are ok with exhaust getting into the cabin if it doesn't smell? Wow.
I live in CA, and don't smell sulfur on my 03 v6. If exhaust is truly getting in, as realized by the rest of the states then I really need to rethink my comfort level today. Perhaps i should continue raising the issue with toyota until there is a 'fix' for all states.
We need to look at it as the sulfur smellers/owners are doing us in CA a favor by telling us 'hey, exhaust is getting into the cabin somehow on your new 4runner, you just don't know it...'

vodgut · September 2003

I think some small amount of exhaust will enter any vehicle. They aren't airtight. Might help if you have all your windows up and are on recirc, though. I imagine that you can also get some exhaust from the car in front of you, no matter what you're driving. Perhaps the sulfur is only noticible because it's so much more pungent and easy to detect when it's there. I think the bigger question is an unsafe or larger than other vehicle's amount of exhaust getting in the cabin due to some design flaw, and I'm not sure we have enough information to answer that question.

nu4runner · September 2003

CA sulfur being so low that the exhaust getting into the cabin doesn't smell; does that say we are ok with exhaust getting into the cabin if it doesn't smell? Wow.

Personally, I'm very concerned about the exhaust/sulfur smell. Definately don't want to kill myself and Im sure everyone else is the same. If you cant smell any exhaust and theres still a problem? I think you could worry about this problem with any vehicle being made today. Arent people in other states that have the exhaust problem definitely smelling this exhaust in their cabins? Thats definitely a problem. Are you smelling exhaust in yours? I think you mentioned somewhere on the board that you got yours from Sunnyvale CA. I value your opinion on this since we are virtually neighbors. I havent bought a 4Runner yet because these issues are holding me back. The (very) few people Ive seen with theirs and actually spoke with have been very happy with theirs, theyve been pretty unaware of any problems for better or worse.

Hopefully any issues that the 4Runners have will finally be brought to light because it is very unfair on so many levels to the people who currently have them.

terrafirma · September 2003

exhaust should not be entering the inside of the vehicle. That does NOT mean it is getting into your car if you don't smell it! The smell can reach the driver from the engine bay into the vents at the base of the windshield. There are many variables and ALL cars/trucks with the sulfer problem smell it inside. Does that mean all cars are leaking exhaust into the passenger area? You don't need to get paranoid, just use common sense.

I have no problems with the 4 runner and I love it to death so far. The V6, btw, is a LEV vehicle.
Maybe northern california has more sulfer content or gets supplies from other areas.

The sulfer problem is being experienced across the board by many companies.

nu4runner · September 2003

I agree with what you said, that was kind of the point of what I was trying to get at. I also hope no one mistakes what I stated to mean that just because you don't smell it, it isn't there. I'm just trying to get answers myself, I am stuck driving a piece of junk because some idiot ran me off the road. After researching so much to narrow it down, I had finally come to the conclusion that I liked that 4Runner the best out of anything out there, and unfortunately there may be a possible hazard with it.

bmw323is · September 2003

For my 4WD trip in the San Juan mountains of Colorado, I used maps from two books. One I got in the library that was called something like "Colorado Four Wheel Drive Roads." The other one I bought. I don't know the exact name (I'm at work), but it is also about Colorado 4WD roads and is excellent at showing precise odometer readings on each road to tell you where every little trail and ghost town are located. They both also rated the roads as to difficulty so one should have an idea of what you are getting into. Have fun on your trip. I think the Edmunds review said that the 4Runner was the best mid size SUV for 4 wheeling, no contest. I agree.

vpotluri · September 2003

I hear that 4 Runner V6 4x4 SR5 and Sport don't come with Side & Curtain airbags. I have to get a Limited to get them? Is that true?

corancher · September 2003

Perhaps there are a few 4Runners that have an unfortunate combination of two things: An engine (more often V8s it seems) that smells all or most of the time and a significant intake of exhaust into the cabin. If interested you can see my post today in the "Sulfur from 2003 4Runner" discussion on where the smell might be entering the cabin.

One industry paper I read claimed that the human nose is extremely sensitive to sulfur compounds, and detects them at levels far below what is hazardous. Also, today's engines produce relatively small amounts of carbon monoxide. Assuming this, it would mean that most (but perhaps not all) 4Runner drivers have nothing to worry about. An occasional whiff of sulfur, even if its origin is one's own vehicle and not the one in front of one, does not indicate a hazard.

I'd be most concerned if I had a vehicle that stunk very frequently or for any length of time, especially if I had the ventilation system on fresh air and had the fan on or was moving forward. Perhaps there is a flapper valve in the cabin air outlet that is jammed.

My own experience (see my posts here a couple of months back) seems to match most 4Runner drivers. VERY infrequent experience of the smell, and typically only after a combination of hard acceleration and poor cabin venting (such as having the windows down with a tailwind or having the tailgate window rolled down). I've experienced the smell more frequently when I had the venting on "fresh" and happened to be behind a relatively modern car which had just accelerated very hard.

Sorry to be long-winded, but I wanted to offer a useful opinion to those who are concerned about unpleasant smells or possible toxic exhaust. For those who really have the smell bad, I think that's a separate issue, and worth some investigation to see if a vent or a valve has gone bad.

terrafirma · September 2003

I don't think there is anything wrong mechanically with the vent system. Every car with the sulfer problem, (whether it is a Honda, Nissan, Ford or Toyota, etc) the driver can smell it inside the passenger compartment. That doesn't mean there is a leak or defective seal. Simple laws of aerodynamics and turbulence will tell you that some of the "smell" will get inside.

I have never had any issue with sulfer and don't even know what the smell is like. If it wasn't for this message board, I would not even know people had this problem.

btw, with LEV and ULEV vehicles it is almost impossible to hurt yourself from the exhaust created.

herd72 · September 2003

I have a 2003 Strtosphere Mica and it is really hard to keep clean but I get a ton of compliments on it. I have even come out of stores to find folks peering in the windows, etc. This is a bit unsettling at first! I have not had anyone say they disliked the color. The key as I see it is simply to never let it get really dirty. I clay bar every 4-5 washes and use detail wax spray after every other wash. Get a good coat (several if possible) of Griots Best of Show or Zaino brothers on it , RainX the windows, etc, and it's not so bad. Mine is so slick bird droppings just slide off! Seriously a quick hose and chamois does wonders if your wax is done right. As for the sulfur smell, I do smell it occasionally but it is not a big deal unless you drive with the back window down - I also have found Chevron to be the least stinky gas here in WV and Shell to be the worst. Good luck, you'll love the runner!

stephend2 · September 2003

I have a 2003 4 runner sport v8 and run regular gas. I completely agree with the above post. I have never smelt anything out of the ordinary. In fact once in a while I'll drive off with the back window down at night by mistake and not notice it for a while and still don't smell anything.
Having said that this is possibly the best engine tranny combo I have ever driven. My only complaint is with the dealer supplied Dunlop tires.
cheers steve d

nedzel · September 2003

I went with Pacific Blue as well. The dark colors are just too hard for me to keep clean.

It is my understanding that side air bags are an available option for sport and SR5 trims. But I suspect you'll have a hard time finding a sport or SR5 on a dealer's lot with air bags. I think you are more likely to find a Limited with air bags. If you are patient, you can special order an SR5 or sport with air bags.

rlopez2032 · September 2003

I have read so many of you mention this product so I decided to try it out on my '03 4Runner. However, not exactly sure on which polish I need on my Titanium Metallic (Silver) 4Runner, the wax for clear coat paint finishes or the one for regular paint finishes? I am thinking that I need the clear coat wax but just wanted to be sure on which product to purchase.

Thanks.

yomols · September 2003

bmw3is Thanks for your post, it brought back some great memories.I took Engineer pass several years ago - my wife walked alot too. We started from Ouray took some sandwiches and eat at the top of the pass. It was SPECTACULAR. I'm still thankful that as we were going up the pass we didn't come across anyone coming down. Not a lot of room to maneuver As I recall we did it in a rented Isuzu Rodeo. Would never buy one but found it fine off road. Enjoyed hearing your experience with the 4Runner. Never doubted its ability but it was good to hear your findings. Thanks again for the post.
PS Took my 4Runner to the dealer to adjust the locking system. There was only one guy in all of Stevensen Toyota that could do it and he wasn't there. If you ever remember how to adjust it so all the doors unlock when shifted into park I would really appreciate the the info.

stever · September 2003

We probably should have done this a few thousand posts ago, but we're happy to announce the opening of Toyota 4Runner: Problems and Solutions.

Steve, Host

jagsdad · September 2003

The side & rear airbags are an option offered on all models. However, the reality is that it is almost impossible to find them on anything but Ltd. I've only seen them on one SR5, and I suspect that was a special order that fell through.

A few of us have complained about this in prior posts. It's a shame you cannot buy an SR5 or Sport off the lot with this desireable and important safety feature.

corancher · September 2003

I like the stratosphere mica a lot. When it's clean it's a very deep, rich, impressive-looking paint job. Looks good when it's sunny or cloudy, and under lights. Looks best close-up, especially when you can see a hint of the metal-flake sparkle. Around here it's much less common than titanium, galactic gray, and black.

However it will show dirt more than lighter colors in most circumstances, and will probably show scratches and swirls more if you get them. I find it to be less demanding than the black of my previous car, but if you're used to maintaining a gray car you may be disappointed.

I like the Zaino products. You should use the one for the clear coat finishes (Z2), and I would recommend the Z2-ZFX combination. ZFX may be the only way to get Zaino to cure/dry in a reasonable amount of time in cooler weather. This stuff doesn't seem to be a traditional wax, though. You apply very small amounts and don't have a lot of residue to buff off. The experience of my friends is that it is much more durable than synthetic or natural waxes. For more information, go to the Zaino discussion board here at Edmunds.com. Most of those folks are way more serious about this stuff than I could ever manage to be, but they are a geat source of information.

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