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The V8 transmission is brand new while the V6's is "proven". In this day where transmissions are just as expensive or more so to fix than an engine, the whole idea one is more reliable than the other is just not accurate.
Otherwise, you can pick from the posts and get ample justification for whatever decision you make. These are both excellent engine/transmission combinations from all accounts so far, though each one is fundamentally new (and therefore less tested) in one respect. You get to choose your risk!
As for vodgut's question about a high-end rush, I drove both engines a couple of times and I think I detected modest differences in both engine and transmission behavior. It's hard to be sure without instruments, but the V6 did seem to kick down quicker and rev higher when you mash the throttle at highway speeds. That contributed to at least the impression of a high-end rush, though both versions were very quick to gain speed.
Off the line, both engines pulled very well, though the V8 had enough extra torque at low RPMs that it was sometimes hard to start smoothly from near-stops. Personally, I felt that the V6 felt a little more agile, perhaps because it was lighter at the front end, where the steering is.
The variable valve timing in the V6 is probably intended to get good high end horsepower while still having good low-end torque, but it's not a complete replacement for the extra cylinders and displacement of the V8. Both engines are a far cry from the high revs and drama of an inline 4.
The two engines sound somewhat different, and I think the V6 may be a little louder under hard acceleration. The V8 sounds like a (very civilized) V8 and the V6 just sounds different. You may like one or the other.
The $ aren't all that big, so unless you're sure what you want, I'd say go out and drive, drive, drive them both.
Some advantages of the V6 all aluminum engine block are lighter weight and greater weight balance (less weight is distributed to the front of the vehicle). These aluminum engines are considered more modern and it is true that the V8 is based on an older design.
Some other advantages with the v8 cast aluminum engine block are less vibration and engine noise.
The 5 speed transmission variant that is on the v8 is not new. It is the first application for a 5 speed transmission in a light truck, so it is "new" to the 03-04 4Runner. This 5 speed transmission is also available on the Lexus GS series (GS 300, 4xx, previous versions of the Lexus LS series, Lexus ES series, Lexus SC, IS 300, and the venerable Landcruiser/LX470 duo. The 5 speed transmission is "proven", not just in passenger based cars, but also in true SUVs.
As I mentioned before, drive before you decide. Each vehichle has its pros and cons. It's a difficult decision so don't rush it.
Does anyone know the 0-60mph time for the V6 4Runner? I have seen one post with a 0-60mph time of 7.8 sec for the v8 4Runner.
Replacement to the plain facia bumper will run around $500, part cost and paint labor.
Otherwise the 'runner' is a winner!
If, however you decide to replace it with something else, there is always the full brush guard treatment. I haven't seen any 03-04 4runners with the brush guards yet.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned about the V8 is the ability to add a TRD Supercharger. These babies are currently only made for the V8, probably because of the cast iron construction. Personally I think both engines offer enough power so this is not a realistic option. Let's face it, we're driving trucks, not BMWs.
Besides, the mileage already sucks :-P
...I'm pretty sure that insurance premiums would increase as well. I already have a lead foot. I don't need any more encouragement.
The idea that an iron block is somehow going to be better under some conditions is totally without merit. It may sound good thinking about materials and things but impossible to know since you have no idea of the tolerances, stress loads and how heat affects the block. Reliablility has nothing to do with it.
Maybe they don't have a supercharger for the V6 because it is a new engine and the V8 has been around for several years. Any engine can be blown, it just has to be at the right boost so you don't cook the engine.
I also have a titanium 2003 with the "sport bumper" or should I say had. The bumper bar is virtually useless as protection, as it is made from extremely cheap plastic, as well as the black bar supports. A mild tap of my work bench in my garage totally shattered the bar. I want to take the remaining pieces off, but I then must fill and paint the mounting holes. So I have been waiting to see if I could pick up a used one, or better yet, if someone comes out with a good bullbar that would mount in its place. I can't believe that Toyota charges that much money for this cheap piece of plastic, when for the same price you can get good quality aftermarket bullbars or brush guards.
And I do agree, this 4Runner is one great vehicle.
There is merit in the specific conditions that I mentioned in the prior post. Iron block engines in general are able to withstand higher pressures in the combustion chamber than aluminum blocks. Airplane engines, engines used in Baja racing vehicles and diesel engines (for example) are predominantly iron block for this reason. In this specific instance, they are more reliable and durable.
There are some aluminum engines, such as the LS1 in the Corvette that actually are able to withstand slightly higher combustion pressures than an iron block. This engine is a very high tech engine and relatively expensive. As I alluded to previously, aluminum engines are newer technology and are becoming the predominant engine of choice. BTW, aluminum engines are able to dissipate heat better than iron block engines.
I don't know the specifics with regards to either engine, but these are the generalities. To the average user, as I mentioned previously, there probably isn't much difference.
Any engine can be blown. While this is true, ultimately, the limiting factor will be the combustion chamber pressure. If an engine can withstand higher pressures, it can generate better performance. Perhaps Toyota will make a Supercharger for the V6. Who knows? However, the fact remains that if one wants to purchase a Toyota Supercharger currently, one needs to have a V8.
--"You can't say one engine will be more reliable than another based on what material it's made of. That has 'nothing to do with long life' or reliability."
** The 4.7-liter V8 provides 230 horsepower, and the Land Cruiser is the first SUV in its class to incorporate dual overhead camshafts and 32 valves in its engine. A cast-iron block, vanadium steel crankshaft and aluminum connecting rod bearings help ensure DURABILITY. - Autoworld.com**
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Using an aluminum block to reduce about 130lbs or so might seem to be not very beneficial, but I think it has something to do with lowering CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy), enforced by the federal government (although there is only a 1mpg difference). Saving 100lbs or so in a car can be significant not only in weight loss, but also in helping to make weight distribution more equal, thus better handling.
I think another reason for Toyota creating this new V6 is to install it in some cars (perhaps the Camry, ES 330, etc) in the future. This would make sense as I doubt Toyota would create an engine for only one application.
Toyota needed to come up with engines that could compete better with mid sized American SUVs, although the American SUVs have the ultimate HP advantage (depending on the engine chosen). For example, the Lincoln Aviator (soon to be phased out in 2005) has 300hp. Evenso, both v6 and v8 have enough power to keep owners happy. I haven't heard of any new 4Runner owners saying that they wished they had more power.
One dealer told me that the V8 engine is likely to be increased in displacement in a couple of years in order to better compete with American SUVs (perhaps 300HP). As for the old v6 of the previous generation, it would just seem anemic compared to other midsized SUVs. Thus, we have two engines to choose from, although of comparably equal HP.
bug deflector in front of the hood (also made by LUND) and there was no drilling involved. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks.
A cast iron block is definitely superior to an aluminum one for main bearing support. Toyota may decide that installing a supercharger on this aluminum block engine compromises the durability of the engine. That is the reason Honda only has normally-aspirated engines. They prefer the no-worries approach to engine durability with their aluminum engines.
I've seen a few posts about ltd models with squeaky drivers seats but none about broken seat which mine did last week. That is to say the right rear corner moves up and down about 1/2 inch. Annoying to say the least. Some part of the seat bracket has broken or come loose . Nothing visible to the eye without taking the seat apart.
My question is has anyone seen a service notice on a problem similar to this.
Thanks in advance.
Ps my 2 cents on v6 vs v8. I found the v6 to be revving higher and working harder/nosier than the no fuss provided by the 8. I had the same engine in my 01 Sequoia and always wanted a 5 speed . I Didn't like the high revs on highway hills when it kicked into 3rd when the cruise was on. Now I have the same engine in a lighter truck with a 5 speed and think its the smoothest engine tran. combo I've owned.
I spent the weekend towing a pair of horses at close to my tow max weight and never had to push hard on the gas.
Cheers steve
PS - I saw someone ask about the interior materials. I have the same question. I am curious what the car-care experts recommend on the interior. Specifically the leather seats, the door material (is it leather?) and the dash/center console lid. I figured all the hard surfaces can be cleaned with a standard glass-like cleaner.....
Thanks,
James Feger
Commercially available glass cleaners will streak the 4Runner's uniquely-treated glass pretty badly.
The plastic or metal painted surfaces shouldn't be cleaned with glass cleaner!! Most every glass cleaner contains ammonia or a like chemical that is too harsh for these surfaces. Again plain water works well and if you want them to shine consider a high-end, UV containing liquid polish.
Excellent point about the glass cleaner on the interior hard surfaces. Im glad I asked before I attempted to do anything. I noticed when the vehicle was new, the windshield was super clean, and the wipers worked VERY well. Now that I have about 3K miles on it the windshield tends to film-over after using the wipers...the film vanishes after a few seconds, but I am sure there is something I could to get that gunk off? So far, as you mentioned the glass cleaners have not helped. Maybe I need to put a little elbow grease into the rag with water as you suggested? What do you think....how to remove the vanishing film!
Thanks,
James
-Jared
I think you'll regret doing something severe without first contacting your dealer or Toyota direct. Good luck.
Year Engine Product Type Part Number Description Comment
2003 4.0L V6 F/I Air Filter 33-2281 NEW! Replacement Air Filter All
Itc9024: I live in Ohio, and last winter we had some pretty deep snow, and a hard winter, in general. I was driving a 2002 4WD Explorer at the time, shod with 16" Michelin Cross Terrains. These are superb all-season SUV tires (I now have a 17" set on my 2003 4Runner Ltd), and even when driving unplowed roads with 18" or more of snow last winter (driving the Explorer), I couldn't get stuck no matter how much I tried! Also, unless you live in a geographic area where the winters are intense enough to require a separate set of snow tires (as opposed to just a set of excellent *all-season* tire), I would carefully consider whether the large added expense and hassle (e.g., mounting, dismounting; storage, etc.) is really necessary for a separate set of snow tires. The Michelin Cross Terrain is a truly versatile all-season SUV tire which offers qualities such as low noise, comfortable ride, and extended wear, along with great handling characteristics and remarkably good traction in most "non-extreme" situations. And, when snow, slush, ice, or similar conditions are encountered, the competency and real-world effectiveness of an SUV's 4WD system (along with the weight of the vehicle) are additional factors to consider, and so too is the driver's level of skill and judgement. Obviously, a great all-season SUV tire won't conquer all things, but it should handle most of the commonly encountered non-extreme situations very well, and do so with low noise; a comfortable ride; great handling; long wear; and good traction.
Another advantage is that they claim to make a modest increase to the vehicle's horsepower and increase fuel economy. I have heard claims of this, but haven't experienced it for myself yet. Has anyone out there used K&N filters on their cars before?
I haven't used a K&N filter before, but I am thinking about it. TRD (Toyota Racing Division) sells a similar filter for about the same price (~$60 or so). You can order from internet retailers or from your dealer (who most likely won't have it in stock, but can order it for you).
http://setbuyatoyota.com/inventory/searchresults.asp?dealer_code=- 09154&model=8642&extcolor=0587&intcolor=FG42&othe- r=AWAT,DJAT,GYAT,NEAT,PNAT
Thanks.
tidester, host
If you are not in a severe climate you should be okay with all seasons and 4 wheel drive as posted previously.
Thanks.
I found a great source for the above K&N filter part #33-2281
Martel Brothers Performance
http://www.martelbros.com
$39.97 w/ Free Shipping
Must order by part number -- it's not in their online catalog yet.
Aaron
Good luck with your search
Aaron
I can also tell you that I look out my window at the parking lot all day long at a 2003 Limited V8 Dorado Gold and it is very nice.
Make your own decision on what you like and try not to be influenced by others; in the end, you are the one who has to be happy with it.
-james
Does anyone know if this is true for white?
Dorado Gold is a nice color...Another plus, it won't fade much
Stratosphere mica is quite a bit darker than the pacific blue, and if you saw one in that color I think you might like it. It's not a very common color, but might double your chances of finding what you want. I find these colors more interesting than the gray/silver/gold family, but I think they are also tougher to take care of. Black is probably toughest of all. Good luck!
I am suprised you would go from black to gold. Black is striking and masuline, very cool. But too much washing for me. Gold, to me, is feminine, or for soccer moms. That just what I associate the color with. If I wanted black, but could not get it, I'd go with the dark blue or the grey. Both are great colors.
Brian