Toyota 4Runner

likalar · October 2003

<<...the whole purpose of having one is in case one wants to transport more stuff on that roof rack. Given the high center of gravity of SUVs, I would not want to add weight up there...>>

I've had many a roof rack, but not once have I had a heavy load up there. I use 'em occassionaly for a canoe (58 lbs) a 12' ladder, fence stakes etc. A perfectly usefull accessory, when you need one.
Larry

grubbs1 · October 2003

Ok gang, I bought an '04 Sport 4x2 with the V8. It is white and only had what I wanted as an option: moonroof. The dealership will be installing a factory spoiler very soon. I will let you know what it looks like and if the third brake light is 'plugged' when the spoiler is installed (a true test of an OEM). This truck is great! It has all the creature comforts a guy needs, great looks and power. I may not have done well on the price though: $28,800 plus $300 for the spoiler. Supposedly, this is $800 over invoice (excluding the spoiler). I test drove an '03 SR5 V8 4x4. With adjustments and the rebate, the pricing would have been similar. I decided to go without the 4x4 as it felt 'heavy'. I also did not like the instant depreciation of an '03 nor did I like the gray cladding.

grubbs1 · October 2003

Another take on the spoiler: it can also be useful by providing some sun protection to the hatch and it's contents. In the Southwestern US, this matters a lot! I simply like the looks! Has anyone installed the wind damper for the moonroof? What did you pay for it? Is it from Toyota?

jagsdad · October 2003

Kheitnz1 and Terrafirma: Of course aesthetics is a sound reason for getting the spoiler. If you like the way it looks, why not get it. Maybe the the spoiler has a "cleaning" effect, but that sounds like speculation to me.

Kheitnz1: What you articulated is a theory only. Maybe you have convinced yourself. But you don't know whether your "airfoil" theory actually has any noticeable effect. If the spoiler forces more air over the window, then it also forces more rain and dirt over the window. You would have to drive 4Runners with and without spoilers under identical conditions to test your theory. I'd bet the aerodynamics of a 4Runner without a spoiler are so strong that any change made by the spoiler is negligible and inconsequential.

Grubbs1: You make a good point about the shade provided by a spoiler.

jagsdad · October 2003

Good for you. The white will serve you well in the hot sun. Your deal doesn't sound too bad either, for an 04 the early in the model year.

terrafirma · October 2003

The spoiler really is there to clean the tailgate!
ASK TOYOTA

The spoiler is shaped to redirect airflow down over the tailgate and it works. They do this because the rear window rolls down and the idea of keeping the area clean is a GOOD one. All you have to do is feel the inside of the spoiler to see it is shaped that way!

They have done this on 4Runners for MANY YEARS. Like I said, it is one of the few functional spoilers out there that does it's job.

mac0822 · October 2003

I'm going to be picking up a 4Runner Sport within the next couple of months. I have a few questions:

V8 vs. V6? I know the V6 has more HP, but how does that translate to every day driving? Does the added torque of the V8 make it worth the loss in gas mileage?

Color Keyed 04's vs. Black trim 03's? I haven't seen many Color Keyed Sports around town yet. Does this give it a more sporty look (I'm considering black & galactic grey).

Thanks for your input.

likalar · October 2003

<<Color Keyed 04's vs. Black trim 03's? ....Does this give it a more sporty look (I'm considering black & galactic grey).>>

Only you can decide that (if it is more sporty). IMO, if you'll be driving thru dry brush and scraping up the fenders anf front end, look for a '03 clad truck. Appearance-wise, the color-keyed looks better to me (and must sell better, or why the change?).
Black is a nice color choice, and looks great on this truck. Good luck.
Larry

grubbs1 · October 2003

just kidding.
Pursuant to my posts above, I went with the V8 over the 6 simply for the way the truck felt. They do drive differently. This is due not only because of the engine size but also due to the 5 speed automatic transmission in the V8's. The V6's have a four speed tranny, as far as I know. You simply need to drive each one and make your own decision. You also need to consider whether more torque is more important in the V8.

I personally did not like the cladding. It is a dark grey, by the way, not black. There is a difference. I was able to compare with and without the cladding side-by-side. This made my decision much easier. Good luck!

alfster1 · October 2003

The Spoiler really does function to keep the rear cargo window cleaner than without one. The spoiler acts to re-direct air flow downward over the glass area. I also have not had to use my rear wiper very much at all. You don't need to know how it works necessarily, but it does work. Enjoy the beautiful functioning spoiler.

Mac0822, as far as the V8 goes, I love mine. There is a significant torque advantage, but it's only an advantage if you use it. The V8 is a hair quicker to 60, but nothing to truly rave about over our V6 brethren. There is only a 1mpg penalty in the V8. You can buy either one confidently, but you should test drive both and see for yourself and consider what your needs are. If you do alot of heavier towing that may include significant updrades, you might want to do yourself a favor and get a V8.

terrafirma · October 2003

Grey cladding has not been available for any 4Runner since before May 2003. Anything left is remaining from that batch so it's not really an option to consider.

highlander7 · October 2003

I'm sure this link has been posted before. It is a valuable resource for new buyers like mac0822. Specifications and information not published in the brochure offered at the dealership are found here.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/

I have asked three different dealers about the air suspension's advantage for towing a 4000 lb. trailer. They each had no idea if it would work, this write-up from (pressroom.toyota.com) explains in some detail.

......."A rear air suspension with X-REAS Sport Enhancement Suspension is available on Limited models with a V8 engine for improved ride and performance when towing or hauling heavy loads. The air suspension uses linear height sensors to automatically adjust the ride height in accordance with the vehicle load".

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id- - =20044runner_r

For spec's, click on: 2004 4Runner Specifications:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display.html?kw=4Runner

mac0822 · October 2003

A local dealer still have two black V8 Sports that are 03's with the grey cladding. That's why I was wondering.

Thanks for the input.

jagsdad · October 2003

Terrafirma, Alfster1:

Okay. I'm convinced.

amheck · October 2003

One of my local dealers, who I have my special order with, must have at least 10 trucks with the grey cladding. I think they're in trouble. I don't know how much they're going to have to discount those for to get rid of them.

Aaron

terrafirma · October 2003

The dealer should be smart and just have them all painted.

likalar · October 2003

<<The dealer should be smart and just have them all painted.>>

My dealer did that to an unsold blu w/grey cladding 4Runner. The grey factory grey wheelwell cladding has the bold raised ridge design every few inches, wheras the factory painted wheelwell cladding is a smoother, ridgeless design. That's the tipoff if the grey cladding has been painted. As of Saturday it still hadn't sold; it was painted 3 months ago.
Larry

kheintz1 · October 2003

My last sentence was as follows: "...On the other hand, this spoiler surely doesn't do anything to increase downward force and traction on the rear tires at higher speeds..." I added this thought merely for the sake of completeness, and here's why: We've all seen cars, pick-up trucks, and SUVs with "spoilers" or airfoils or "wings" mounted on the rear, which are usually there only for looks. (In most cases, they actually look rather silly). But where did the idea for this spoiler "craze" originate? I suspect the answer rests with certain race cars, dragsters, etc. Now, consider an airplane wing, if you will. If the leading edge of a wing is tilted UPWARD with respect to its trailing edge, then a sufficient amount of airflow across the wing will result in aerodynamic LIFT, opposing gravity. (If the plane travels fast enough, the amount of lift will become sufficient to achieve lift-off and flight.) On the other hand, if the leading edge of the wing is tilted DOWNWARD with respect to its trailing edge, the aerodynamic forces are then directed DOWNWARD, adding to the downward force of gravity. So then... real, high-speed race cars, dragsters, etc. (which are typically REAR wheel drive), don't have rear airfoils angled for LIFT, since to do so would result in less-and-less DOWNWARD force vectors on the rear drive wheel(s), and this would of course result in less-and-less drive TRACTION of the rear drive wheel(s). Instead, the leading edge of those automotive racing airfoils or wings is angled DOWNWARD with respect to their trailing edge, so as to provide a degree of wind-derived force whose force vector is directed DOWNWARD, and this results in forces pushing DOWN on the rear drive wheel(s), thus allowing greater traction and less wheel slippage in response to other forces such as sudden powerful increases in engine torque, as well as lateral "fishtailing" forces, etc. In short, the rear airfoils of race cars and dragsters are intended to help keep the REAR drive wheels pressed more firmly against the race track or road, and this in turn helps to decrease the likelihood of loss of traction (or slippage) of the rear drive wheel(s).

With this in mind, in my last posting I was merely trying to be complete in my positive comments about the new 4Runner's "spoiler" by saying that it surely doesn't do a darn thing for traction, and that its main advantage is to create favorable wind flow over the rear window. Most of us know this intuitively, but there may be a few who erroniously believe that a rear "spoiler" on a typical road vehicle might somehow afford the same intended aerodynamic benefits as seen with high-speeds race vehicles. While the 4Runner's "spoiler" surely creates enough downward-directed wind force to help keep the rear glass "cleaner", I doubt it creates enough "lift" to matter at all (unless you plan to somehow fly the vehicle), nor do I think it creates enough drag to improve downward traction forces.

jcliffro · October 2003

Thanks a lot for that most thorough explanation. I appreciate all the time you took to explain that to me. It was very thoughtful and much appreciated.

resumespeed · October 2003

If I buy a 4R off the lot with the spoiler on it, is is easily removable? Or will it leave holes or something that has to be painted? Sorry, but I just cannot stand the looks of that goofy thing, regardless if it help keep the rear window clean.

69mach1 · October 2003

The maintenance light on my 2003 Sport blinks at me after start up prompting me to change the oil. The light started blinking at about 5000 miles, but I don't want to change the oil until 7500 miles per the owner's manual.

After changing the oil how do you reset the system and can it be set for 7500 miles instead of 5000 miles?

vodgut · October 2003

I noticed the same thing. I don't think there's a way to set it to a different mileage. 5000 is a warning, and at 7500 it will glow solid, I think. You can, however, shut it off until the next interval. The procedure is in your owner's manual, I think around page 120 or 121 if I remember correctly. Regardless, it's in there somewhere.

mediaguy2 · October 2003

We just leased a loaded 2003 4runner Limited and were shocked to learn AFTER we took possession that Toyota -- unlike every vehicle we ever had -- offered no 24/7 Roadside Assistance. We've always had it FREE with our Jeep vehicles, with a VW VR6 and I know it's available on virtually every other new vehicle available in the U.S. we only ever had to use two or three times but it gives one confidence that's it's available. It's amazing that a major company like Toyota doesn't offer it. We;'d like to hear your comments.

mediaguy2 · October 2003

i have a new '03 v8 ltd...great vehicle...would like to get some advice that i wouldnt trust the dealer on -- here goes.
1. what grade gasoline is best? i just filled the tank for the first time with middle grade

2. am i always in 4-wheel drive? hard to understand from the manual.

3. for some reason it seems my 10 speaker system is only coming through the front center...cant seem to get all inclusive sound. i have not played yet with the rear speak remote...should something be turned on back there??? seems odd.

any help much appreciated!!!!!

lpm141 · October 2003

I own a 03 limited v8 and would like some advice with the inside and outside air circulation feature. My 4runner always seems to automatically turn on the inside air circulation. I guess this is part of the automatic climate control feature but I find it to be a big pain. My question is which is a better choice with inside or outside air the manual seems to suggest to have outside air on for the ac and etc. I live in a predominantly hot climate so my ac is on 80% of the year. It seems to me that the inside circulation operates with more air force and cooler air. But I am also worried about mold with constant use of inside air circulation only? Any suggestion would be appreciated.

mrwhipple · October 2003

mediaguy2 :
If your V8 is a 4WD model, then it is always in 4WD. Only the V6 model is part-time. Regular unleaded is just fine. You'd just be burning xtra money with the super-unleaded.

lpm141 :

Outside circulation is fine for regular use, but use the inside re-circulation for air conditioning. It will keep the cabin cooler more efficiently and will blow the air in a little harder.

alfster1 · October 2003

Congrats on your 03 4Runner limited purchase. I have the same vehicle.

1. I have been using regular grade gasoline (87) and have had no problems up to now (3200 miles).

2. You are always in 4wd. The torque is basically divided 60% Rear/40% Front unter typical conditions. When there is front wheel slippage, the computer will send increased torque to the front wheels.

3. As for your stereo, you might need to make sure that the fader controls are centered. Otherwise, you may have a genuine problem and need to take your vehicle back to the dealer. The rear audio system does not affect the main system.

Hope you enjoy your new suv

alfster1 · October 2003

First of all, roadside assistance is available from Toyota, but it is not standard. It is also available as part of special financing plans for recent college graduates free of charge.

Practically all manufacturers provide some type of roadside assistance in one form or another. Don't despair, AAA is always available at a moderate cost and some manufacturers actually contract their services as part of their roadside assistance program.

Personally, I have AAA Plus and the Toyota Roadside Assistance plan. It does give peace of mind.

mrwhipple · October 2003

mediaguy2 :
If your V8 is a 4WD model, then it is always in 4WD. Only the V6 model is part-time. Regular unleaded is just fine. You'd just be burning xtra money with the super-unleaded.

lpm141 :

Outside circulation is fine for regular use, but use the inside re-circulation for air conditioning. It will keep the cabin cooler more efficiently and will blow the air in a little harder.

chris_in_boise · October 2003

It's a sad fact that the $$$ 10-speaker JBL stereo outputs most of its sound through the front center speaker.

You can try compensating by "fading" the sound toward the rear of the vehicle, but this isn't a great fix because the speakers in the back seat area are underpowered and sound muffled. Try sticking your head down next to one of them while they're playing, and you'll see what I mean.

I hated the 'mono' JBL system so much that I disconnected the front center speaker in my 4Runner. I had to tweak the balance and tone a little afterwards, but it sounds now like a fairly good system. Not great, but good. I think that's the best you can hope for.

puckyhuddle · October 2003

What's the real story...is it worth the extra $$ or not? Are there better aftermarket alternatives for the same price? I have read reviews that the JBL is a great system, and other posts that say it's lousy. Your opinions? As always, thanks.

onyeiii · October 2003

I was not real pleased with the JBL when I first got my '03 4Runner - it has been about a year now. I traded in an Audi with a factory BOSE system that I was used to listening to and liked much better. The JBL center speaker did seem very loud, and the sound quality was not all that great. I tried "fading" towards the back - it didn't seem to help much. I don't notice it anymore. I don't know if this is because I've gotten used to it, or if there was a break-in period for the speakers to even out, or what.

I don't recall the price of the JBL, but I doubt you can get a better aftermarket system for the price when you consider a head unit and 10 speakers. If I was going to do it all over again I would take the standard Toyota system and upgrade the speakers.

likalar · October 2003

<<What's the real story...is it worth the extra $$ or not?>>

I brought my own CD to the dealer to test them both. After fiddling a bit, I got the 10 speaker version to sound pretty good. Then I played with the basic stereo. Not bad either. The truck I got off the lot was equipped with just the basic stereo (6 speakers, single CD, cassette, etc.) After just a few days, I'm glad I got the basic. The truck is so quiet that the stereo sounds great at normal listening levels. FM reception is very good, controls are easy to use. Real good unit for a factory basic. Maybe one day I'll upgrade some of the speakers, but not yet.
Larry
P.S. I've had GREAT car sound systems in the past. I would usually crank it up for my sons for a few seconds (bragging rights), then turn it down for the remainder of the car's life. Now I'd rather have the cash (instead of the better stereo) for road trip money. $700.00 will buy a lot of gasoline.

likalar · October 2003

My '03 Sport came with DunlopAT 20 Grandtrek tires. Coming through 10 miles or so of Calif. rain-grooved concrete freeway, the truck steering seemed to "float" slightly left and right, probably because the tread matched the rain grooves nearly perfectly. Not really a problem at all; just thought I'd mention it. Nice quiet tire, though. This week is the first trip to the mountains in this truck. Excellent truck! 8 miles of dirt road yesterday, a bit of crawling over some slab along the North fork of the Stanislaus River.....Today we'll load on a canoe for a last trip around Lake Alpine before winter. Couldn't be happier with this Frunner.
Larry

pat84 · October 2003

I adjusted my JBL 10 speaker systems as follows. I adjusted the base to 4, the mid range to 3, and the highs to 4. I faded to the back to 3. I have the "surround sound" on. It sounds pretty good to me.
I traded in a Honda Odyssey EX with a 6 speaker system on my 4Runner. Compared to the Toyota system, the Honda system was really a POS.

vodgut · October 2003

I have Michelin Cross-Terrains on my vehicle, and they do the same thing on grooved pavement.

I really like the JBL. I've gotten comments from friends sitting in the back seat about how good it sounds. I think I have the bass on 5, midrange on 0 or 1, and the treble at 3 or 4. Whether surround on or off sounds better depends on what I'm listening to, I think. I don't think I have it faded at all.

pat84 · October 2003

I mostly listen to 60's and 70's Rock and Roll. Depending on the particular song I may turn up the volume.
I also have some Klaus Shultz electronic semi-classical CD's. They test the response of any system.

highlander7 · October 2003

Is the availability of the 04 Limited's limited?

Over the past three weeks I have called six local dealers in the South Jersey area to locate an 04 4.7L with SR, GY, RF, RL, CF, NF, and NV. One dealer said probably the end of November, others say to call every two weeks to check their allotment lists. Maybe this has something to do with a demand for the navigation system with the back-up camera? I did a quick Internet search of mega dealers like Longo in CA. and Hudson in NJ. They also have no 04 Limited's completely spec'd on their inventory lists. With these options this vehicle is probably a small percentage of 4Runners sold. Or maybe this is just a regional shortage?

After reading the posts and test driving an 03 with the navigation I am sold on this feature.

Anyone out there have an 04 with the navigation system?

kheintz1 · October 2003

As I recall from the owners manual, in auto climate control mode the system may automatically select "recirculate" upon startup if the outside temp., the inside vehicle temp. (and also possibly the humidity) are high. By doing so, it is of course intended to help quickly cool down the vehicle more efficiently, and if you don't want it set to recirculate, simply turn the switch off manually, but it may be automatically selected again at the next startup, depending on the prevailing conditions. While I will use the
"air-recirculate" feature when needed, I don't think it's a good idea to chronically leave the system in air-recirculate mode, because: 1) This somewhat deprives the cabin of a constant source of incoming FRESH air, which may eventually cause the cabin to smell stale; 2) At startups during hot, humid weather, the cool air-conditioned air that flows through the duct work will tend to cause moisture formation when it hits the hot, humid air it displaces in the ducts. (In addition, any occupants are of course constantly exhaling very humidified air with each breath, and this adds much to the air moisture burden inside the cabin.) Now, if this moisture is allowed to accumulate in the air ducts and vents, it will tend to encourage the growth/overgrowth of very foul smelling MILDEW. Once this mildew forms, it multiplies, and can be very difficult if not impossible to fully remove, and the stench may never be eliminated. To help avoid mildew, stale cabin odor, etc., it is therefore very important to keep the airflow selector switch at the "fresh" air setting whenever recirculated air is not necessary, since this keeps the ducts, vents, and the cabin constantly flushed and replenished with clean outside air, which in turn helps to prevent moisture and mildew from forming in the ducts and vents. If you smoke in the vehicle, this is another reason to keep fresh air circulating whenever possible. Finally, when "air-recirculate" is selected along with higher fan speed settings, this causes an increase in the parasitic load on the electrical system, leading to increased fuel consumption.

kheintz1 · October 2003

Not too long ago, a Toyota service technician mentioned to me that as far as he knew at the time, the cost to replace the rear, air-leveling shocks (should this be needed, out of warranty) is ~$1500.00, excluding labor.

kheintz1 · October 2003

I have a copy of a "Product Knowledge Booklet" from "Toyota University" on the 2003 4runner, given to me by a Toyota service advisor. This booklet is a brief technical overview of the truck, intended for Toyota's service technicians, and it describes both the V6 and the i-Force V8 as requiring 91 octane fuel. Now, I have no idea why this technical booklet would make such a claim if it is not really necessary, but it has motivated me to run Shell 93 octane fuel in my new, V8, 4Runner. I've had my truck for about 6-7 weeks now, and it has nearly 4000 miles on it so far, but I've yet to encounter the dreaded sulfur exhaust odor that some have complained of. Just as a matter of speculation, I can't help but wonder if this sulfur odor might somehow be related to using lower octane fuels? Might these lower octane fuels (or any cheap quality fuel, regardless of its octane rating) somehow poison, contaminate, or taint the catalytic convertor in some manner, leading to exhaust that smells really sulfurous? Again, I'm just specualting here.

highlander7 · October 2003

In the past I never considered purchasing extended warranties on Honda and Toyota products and fortunately never needed them. Today these cars and trucks components are complex and expensive if they need to be fixed. My wife took the 7 year / 75000 mile Toyota Platinum on her 03 Avalon for piece of mind.

For the same reason I will purchase the 7 year / 100,000 Platinum for my new 4Runner (if it ever arrives). With the navigation, air suspension, computer chips and power just about everything, this may be a $1000.00 well spent.

I will be using the air suspension for towing so if I need to replace this system, the extended bumper to bumper warranty will be more than just piece of mind.

kheintz1 · October 2003

I too have the Platinum extended warranty (6 years/100,000 miles), which by the way includes towing to the nearest Toyota service facility, subsitute transportation, travel protection (meals and lodging), and it is transferable. As for roadside assistance, the basic warranty has certain provisions, but beyond this I also maintain a AAA-Plus membership, which offers an array of useful benefits.

4runtexas · October 2003

hey guys!

any of you 03/04 sport edition owners out there not like or wish they didn't have the hood scoop?

just curious on you're thoughts, and if there is anyone out there that knows any way i can get a hood (w/ scoop) titanium silver, and replace my stock hood with it.....

Kirstie_H · October 2003

A major newspaper is looking to interview people who recently bought small cars after previously
driving larger cars or SUVs, despite whether you traded from big to small or if you still have the larger vehicle. He's especially looking for drivers of the Mini Cooper, Honda Civic, Ford Focus, Dodge Neon, Hyundai Tiburon and Mazda Protege. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by Tuesday, October 28, 2003 with your daytime contact info and the type of vehicles you had and have.
Thanks!

rayh78 · October 2003

03 Sport. love it just another reason to have 4runner stand out among other plain suvs
Not really a luxury car so gives it some sporty look

alfster1 · October 2003

Interesting theory, but I have been using 87-89 octane exclusively and the only time I smell the sulfur is when the rear cargo window is open. Perhaps there is some correlation between fuel grade and the sulfur smell. As far as "cheap" or "no name gas" goes, that could be a possible source of causing the sulfur smell, but any brand of gasoline could have a bad batch of gas. I have about 3400 miles to date on my 03 V8.

Maybe there is a problem with the catalytic converter. It could just be a defect of some sort.

alfster1 · October 2003

I purchased the Platinum plan as well for my 03 4runner loaded with NAV, air suspension, Xreas. There is just so much technology on vehicles these days that the plan provides alot of peace of mind. This is the first time that I have purchased an extended warranty, but for $870, I feel it is worth it.

lpm141 · October 2003

Kheintz1 thanks for the great reply and that is exactly what I want to avoid is mold growth. I owned a Tacoma and a Jetta that inevitably had a mold problem. This of course produces an awful smell. I just do not understand why the climate control does not ever seem to eventually cycle to outside air. I guess with winter temps I will notice the change. But why would Toyota engineer the climatre control to mainly use inside air? It seems strange that with the issues of recircualtion that climate control will always choose that setting. Unless you live in a very cold climate most of the time it would automatically be on inside air. The other issue is I see a dramatic difference in performance with the outside air. Outside air is defiantly less powerful and less cold. But I guess you are right and we need to keep outside air on as much as possible.

grubbs1 · October 2003

Has anyone purchased or considered purchasing an extended warranty that is not a factory (Toyota) warranty? When I bought my '04 Sport, the dealer was pricing a 6 yr/75,000 mile warranty for $1096! The finance person said it was at their cost (baloney!).

Toyota 4Runner

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