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Maybe we should get back to the Accent?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
That being said, I'm torn between whether I would choose the Rio5 or the Accent. I prefer the Rio5's exterior styling ( It looks like a mini GTI, especially from the rear!), although the Accent looks good too, except for the funky looking taillights. But the Accent's interior looks more upscale and I prefer the blue/white interior illumination Hyundai uses over the red/white illumination that Kia uses. The available power sunroof on the Rio is also very tempting. Strange that Hyundai doesn't offer that!
However, two things I have trouble understanding: :confuse:
1. Why can't the folks at Ford & in Korea can design a nice looking hatch with rear quarter & hatch windows that don't taper down to low rider appearance & visabilty? Those small windows just kill visibility & almost make a back up camera mandatory for a slight stiff old timer like me. Then I suppose they aren't designing these hatches for old timers, but I think I see more grey hairs driving Fits & other hatches than 20 somethings.
2. Also hard for me to understand is why -with two decades to improve engine technology - these new econo cars don't get significantly better gas mileage than an 18 year old Honda. I have had several Honda 1.6 L cars than consistently got 30 mpg city & 38-40 hiway w ATs.
Finally I second the comments on 17" wheels when 15-16" would be just fine for econocars. The larger ones may marginally improve handling but have three negative effects: Heavier & increased fuel consumption, harsher ride & higher replacement costs.
Subaru is a great example with their new Outback. Increased space, comfort & mpg without serious compromises to the practical things such as visablity & overall performance. At least that is why I got one!
:shades:
Maybe it is time to change my call name to "Grumpy Old Man" :sick:
All the safety regs and the need to haul around our ever-enlarged butts (in the US) have their cost.
In comparison, the current Honda Fit base weights 2604, has 1.5 L engine w 117 HP & 106 torque. 0-60 variously reported at 9.6 - 11 seconds.
For 18 yrs difference engine numbers very similar, performance & EPA are not signficantly different.
When it comes to comfort & crashworthiness, surely the current models are superior to those of 18 yrs ago. But I still am puzzled why with 18 yrs of advancement in aerodynamics, engines, transmissions, & materials... a care that only weighs 200-300 lbs more doesn't show greater improvements ii the MPG (or performance.
Interestingly when you compare the improvements in comfort, performance & economy of midsize cars, they seem to have faired better than the economy & compact cars.
I would like to know more about the 2012 Kia Rio hatchback and sedan, particularly the Rio hatchback. That car looks awesome.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think 10% more power with 25% better fuel economy in a much roomier, safer, and more comfortable car is "significant".
Maybe one reason midsized cars seem to have improved more in economy than economy cars is that today, economy/compact cars are the size of mid-sized cars from 18 years ago! Plus there was weight to be cut in mid-sized cars. Harder to cut weight while retaining safety on the small cars.
You want better fuel economy compared to 18 years ago? How about the Prius? But that's using technology not available 18 years ago. The basic technology of non-hybrid powertrains hasn't changed that much in 18 years. Some evolutions, yes, like more cogs in the ATs, CVVT and GDI engines, but not totally new technology ala hybrids.
Obviously the hybrids represent a true advancement in technology & fuel economy. But one has to drive relatively high miles to come out ahead in the $ department.
Test drove a Versa & Fit today. Both good cars I prefer the Fit, but I have trouble pulling the trigger & still enjoy the Del Sol. So I may sit it out for a while - perhaps long enough to take the Korean twins for a spin. I best stop bellyaching - we all know the good ol' days even if we are only talking 12-20 yrs ago were not really quite what we imagine them to be.
No. See my post #45. I agree with you... it's odd that the Accent doesn't get hardly any better FE than the larger, more powerful Elantra. But OTOH, the Accent (and Rio) do match other small cars in the same class, e.g. the Fiesta SFE--and that car requires an extra-cost package to get 40 mpg.
But one thing I don't understand... how can you complain about the FE of the Accent just a few posts after talking about how much you love the Rio, which I think has the same FE numbers despite having the same powertrains as the Accent PLUS the idle-stop feature? Wouldn't you think the Rio would have better FE numbers than the Accent?
On every car I drive. Except it's often more like 15%.
In other words... if you get much better than EPA ratings on the Fiesta, odds are you'll get much better than EPA ratings on the Rio (or Accent).
So I have no idea whatsoever why you would be even remotely interested in a Rio, let alone a "stripped" Accent. :confuse: Why not just buy another Fiesta if you need two cars of that size?
If the average-sized adults are contortionists or masochists, yes. I tried out the rear seat room of the Fiesta and it's really, really cramped when sitting "behind myself." And I'm only 5'9-1/2". I think average-sized adults (which I am) would find it intolerable except for a quick trip in town. Which might be just fine for many buyers who only use the front seats and never need to haul adults or teens in back for any distance. That just not me, however. I am curious to see how the new Accent compares. I found the rear accomodations of the old Accent to be tolerable, but certainly not a car I'd want to ride in for any length of time in back. Roomier than the Fiesta though. But the new Accent is bigger than the old one, so I'll have to see if it's roomy enough. If not, I can "move up" to a compact car like the Elantra with a roomy back seat and still excellent FE.
First impressions were that it is a very good looking car in person, better than in photos. Especially from the 3/4 rear view. Front is OK but not exceptional. Very much in tune with Hyundai's "fluidic sculpture" theme, but not as weird as the new Elantra. The plastic wheel covers were good enough looking that I wouldn't be forced to upgrade to alloys.
But the interior was even more impressive. It seems very roomy, as much so as some compacts such as Focus, Mazda3, and Cruze. The light tan interior probably helped provide an airy feel. (Although I am wondering about how easy it would be to keep the light tan fabric and headliner clean.) This was the base car without the optional interior trim upgrades, but I thought it looked very good anyway--a huge improvement over the old Accent and IMO the nicest interior in the class (although I haven't sat in the new Rio yet). All the plastics looked high quality (although surfaces were hard), the controls including the HVAC knobs were smooth, and the fabric seemed durable.
The driving position was comfortable for me even though there's no telescopic steering column. There's a fold-down armrest that is more practical for right arm support than a center console, although of course you lose the extra storage (upgraded interior has a center console with sliding armrest). Headroom was good (I'm 5'-9-1/2").
The real story on this car though is the back seat. With the driver's seat adjusted comfortably for me, there was as much or more legroom in back than in some compacts e.g. Cruze, Focus, Mazda3. There was plenty of knee space, with about 3" from knees to seatback, and there was just barely adequate foot room for my size 10 feet under the front seat. My ankles ran out of room first, but my thighs had adequate if not great support. It would be just fine for a few hours, or for smaller folks it I think would be quite comfy for all day trips. Head room was good, better than in the Elantra. Unfortunately, Hyundai deleted the rear center armrest that was in the old Accent.
The trunk seemed very roomy for such a small car. Like the new Elantra and other new small cars, there's no spare tire--just sealant and a pump. The trunk has conventional hinges, but the upside of that is the lid pops up for easy lifting when you lift the inside release lever.
I'll have to drive the car for a final verdict, but the fact it has a nicely designed interior with adequate rear seat room for adults or teens lets me keep the car on my short list. I'd have to get the upgrade package with remote locking and cruise control though. That puts the car within $1500 of a comparably-equipped Elantra.
I don't know why you keep saying the Accent has black handles and mirrors. It doesn't. Here's the base sedan:
Anyway, if I got an Accent I'd get either the GLS sedan with premium package or the GS hatch, so I'm covered in color either way.
GS stick with mats, MSRP only $15,450. Has everything I'd need except cruise. Which I could probably live without... but I'd rather not.
Then there's the Rio...
I do like the brown color, assuming it's the same as on the Elantra. Very sharp with the tan interior on that car.
I've been looking at used car lots at dealerships for about 2 months and the price of used cars is insane right now! I could get an Accord with 100k+ miles for like $15k at a nearby Honda dealership!
So I started looking at cheap entry level cars. I come from a family that's bought Japanese automaker cars for quite some time. Good reliability with Hondas and Subarus...been *really* disappointed with Toyotas.
But the 2012 Accent is really appealing. Great warranty, list of standard features, fuel economy, styling and the price is right. My mom is iffy on buying a Hyundai, but she understands the appeal.
Everything I've read seems to be raving about every new car Hyundai comes out with. I want to know how people (consumers, not just the press behind Edmunds/KBB/Inside Line, etc) feel about Hyundai, the warranty, and the long-term reliability of the car?
I was also extremely impressed with Hyundai's homegrown 6 speed automatic. Folks, this tranny is superb! You can't even feel the shifts. You only see the rpms change and the digital display change numbers (very cool how you always know what gear you are in). Shiftronic is now standard so you have way more control over what gear the tranny is in. And if past Hyundais are any guide, the Shiftronic will hold the gear to redline until you manually shift it. I only drove the car up to about 50 mph but the tranny did not try to shift fast all the way up to overdrive like our current 4 speed. There was no discernible power difference between the auto and manual. In fact, the auto felt a little quicker to me. The only thing I didn't like was the gated shifter. It looks a little higher class but the zig zag pattern to change from R to D isn't as quick as a simple straight line shifter.
The manual tranny's shifter was just as good as the one in the Elantra. No more notchiness. Reverse was easy to engage. 6th gear is a little harder to get into but I'm sure it's something you get used to over time. I never drove an MC manual, but this shifter is light years ahead of the LC's shifter. The clutch, on the other hand, was way too soft. You can't really feel the engagement point. Also, when accelerating hard, there is a dead spot when shifting from 1st to 2nd as the engine cuts gas for emissions reasons. It makes the 1-2 shift less than smooth and you loose some acceleration. I think it was for this reason that the automatic felt faster. I also noticed a good bit of squat when accelerating hard. It sort of reminded me of the land yachts of yore.
Two other dynamic differences from the MC. The 4 wheel disc brakes are a huge improvement in brake pedal feel and braking power. The pedal is much firmer and is almost too touchy. I'm used to the mushy pedal feel in my MC. Brakes felt strong and smooth. If this is what the 4 wheel discs felt like on the 06-07 Accents, the rest of us have really been missing out. I really think rear discs are a worthwhile upgrade to later MCs! The electric steering, on the other hand, was the biggest disappointment of the car. It felt very wooden and effort was way too high. It felt like it didn't want to be turned. And there was absolutely no feel coming through the rim. I much prefer the hydraulic steering in my MC!
As for the rest of the car, I noticed a lot of small changes, some good, some not so good. The hood release latch is now integrated into the bottom of the lower dash, which looks cleaner. The hood prop rod is still attached to the hood. The engine appears to be more compact as you can easily put your arm behind the engine now. Alternator has moved up to where the former power steering pump was, nice and easy to replace. The intake is now on the very front of the engine, with the filter located where the battery used to be. I'm not sure if a SRI would fit as well though. The gauges are always lit now, which could lead to people leaving their lights off at night. The trip computer is very cool, giving you miles to empty and avg mpg. There were vanity mirrors but no lights, a step backward from my car. The most puzzling feature lacking was a power door lock button. There simply isn't one, not even on the driver's door. Not sure how you operate the door locks from inside the car. I would miss having this button. The cloth door inserts were a nice addition although it was a very rough feeling fabric. Back seat room was decent, however, the floor ramps upward as it goes under the front seats, which means I can no longer stick my sneakers completely under the seat. This could cause a problem comfort wise for long limbed guys. I loved the pump handle for the height adjustment on the drivers seat, very VW. The seats are shaped different and I'm not sure whether they are as comfortable since I didn't spend much time adjusting them. The stereo operates exactly the same, it's just shaped different. Last but not least, the 175/70R14 tires are way too small and really cheapen the look of the car.
All in all, the new Accent is a homerun and I'm seriously considering upgrading in 6 months or so. Power is definitely strong enough to make the Veloster a very tempting sporty hatch.