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2013 Subaru Outback
cincinnati_dan
Member Posts: 12
Thanks for the responses I have already received.
I read that there will be 3 different types of AWD systems in the 2013 Outback (I think the 2012s, and maybe older Outbacks, have these 3 types as well, but I am not sure). Is one better than the other? Are they all great as far as AWD goes? I will not be doing any serious off-roading. I just want a vehicle that has AWD all the time, for driving on various road conditions. I currently have 4WD (2009 Toyota Tacoma), and I hate it, because I am afraid to engage it when it rains, snows lightly, or when there may be freezing rain, in fear that I will damage the 4WD system.
Also, I have not been able to find anything regarding the new FB engine, and how that eliminates head gasket problems. Will the 2012s need a head gasket replacement every so-many miles?
I am also afraid of the 2013s because of the new EyeSight Driver-Assist System, and potential problems it may have.
Any thoughts on how much more the 2013s will cost? If I can buy a 2012 2.5i Limited now for $29,000, how much will a similar 2013 cost me in a couple of months?
Here is what I read on-line about the 3 types of AWD in the Outback:
Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive: Three Different Types
Subaru offers three different Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive systems in the 2013 Outback line, each tailored to the type of transmission. In Outback 2.5i models equipped with the 6-speed manual transmission, the Continuous AWD system uses a viscous-coupling locking center differential to distribute power a nominal 50/50 front to rear. Slippage at either the front or rear wheels will cause the system to send more power to the opposite wheels.
Subaru Outback 2.5i models equipped with the Lineartronic CVT use Active Torque Split AWD. An electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch actively controls power distribution in response to driving conditions and wheel slippage.
The Outback 3.6R uses the Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) AWD system with a 5-speed electronic automatic transmission. A planetary center differential works with an electronically controlled continuously variable hydraulic transfer clutch to manage power distribution. The VTD system normally sends more power to the rear wheels (45:55) to enhance handling agility, and it can continuously adjust power distribution in response to driving and road conditions.
I read that there will be 3 different types of AWD systems in the 2013 Outback (I think the 2012s, and maybe older Outbacks, have these 3 types as well, but I am not sure). Is one better than the other? Are they all great as far as AWD goes? I will not be doing any serious off-roading. I just want a vehicle that has AWD all the time, for driving on various road conditions. I currently have 4WD (2009 Toyota Tacoma), and I hate it, because I am afraid to engage it when it rains, snows lightly, or when there may be freezing rain, in fear that I will damage the 4WD system.
Also, I have not been able to find anything regarding the new FB engine, and how that eliminates head gasket problems. Will the 2012s need a head gasket replacement every so-many miles?
I am also afraid of the 2013s because of the new EyeSight Driver-Assist System, and potential problems it may have.
Any thoughts on how much more the 2013s will cost? If I can buy a 2012 2.5i Limited now for $29,000, how much will a similar 2013 cost me in a couple of months?
Here is what I read on-line about the 3 types of AWD in the Outback:
Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive: Three Different Types
Subaru offers three different Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive systems in the 2013 Outback line, each tailored to the type of transmission. In Outback 2.5i models equipped with the 6-speed manual transmission, the Continuous AWD system uses a viscous-coupling locking center differential to distribute power a nominal 50/50 front to rear. Slippage at either the front or rear wheels will cause the system to send more power to the opposite wheels.
Subaru Outback 2.5i models equipped with the Lineartronic CVT use Active Torque Split AWD. An electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch actively controls power distribution in response to driving conditions and wheel slippage.
The Outback 3.6R uses the Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) AWD system with a 5-speed electronic automatic transmission. A planetary center differential works with an electronically controlled continuously variable hydraulic transfer clutch to manage power distribution. The VTD system normally sends more power to the rear wheels (45:55) to enhance handling agility, and it can continuously adjust power distribution in response to driving and road conditions.
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Comments
Having said that, we've had three 2.5 automatic Subarus with the Active Torque AWD, and they've never let us down. Also, I have a WRX 5-speed with the 50/50 power split viscous coupling AWD; same there, never let me down.
Bob
2013 Outback will have FB25 engine (same as 2011/2012 Forester)
The main differences are EJ25 = SOHC w/ timing belt; FB25 = DOHC w/ timing chain.
FYI - 2012 Impreza has 2.0L FB20 engine.
Bob
Bob
I'm wondering if any of the hosts would be willing to correct the thread title to "Subaru" from "Subura?" :shades:
More specifically, will coolant ever leak from the head gasket, internally or externally?
Simple answer - not possible The coolant no longer even flows through the gaskets! The heads and block have different lines to cool them.
So nope.
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
Scary.
Edit to add link, $40,720 actually:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/08/ford-configurator-prices-new-2013-explorer-sp- ort-from-40-720/
And though this may not be the place for it, can anyone explain what the ratio of torque to rpm and hp to rpm tells you? I want to be able, if it's possible, to compare engines between cars. And if I do, would these comparisons give me an idea of the actual power of a car?
Thanks.
If you opt for the CVT it may not matter much, because the CVT can put the engine in the sweet spot and keep it there.
I'd wait for the new one just to get the timing chain, and the easy-access oil filter. Oil changes would take 5 minutes.
Hope you and your family are well. You may not remember me, but I'll give it a try. I bought a new black 2001 LLBean Outback over 11 years ago... called it my black tank... I contributed to Edmunds' forum early on, but haven't in quite some time. Well, the car reached 162K miles this past April, but was totalled in an accident. Minor collision - my wife and an AMC SUV met in the left front corner of the Outback. She hardly felt anything - no airbags went off. The "cage" seemed to do its job quite well, but front left wheel/axle, radiator, etc. added up to a total. Got $6800 from insurance!! Much better than I thought I would get! Too bad, the car was going to my daughter next year. Now I'll have to spend more to find her one... and not know its true condition. All those years of caring for it down the drain...
After 162K miles the H6 engine ran like the day I bought it. No kidding. No loss of power. It was amazing... as was the transmission and other major components. Never changed the radiator!!! Everything worked. It would have kept going on forever. Only regret I had was not changing the struts until 155K. It took its toll on the front end. I was looking at changing tie rods, etc. in the front. It was getting loose. The front brakes were a constant headache. Subaru engineers got that one wrong - too small for the H6 car's weight. Had to change the pads every 10-15K and use special Frozen rotors. AWD also eats up tires fairly quickly - but a safety tradeoff. That window design and the noise it created was unbearable at times. Wooden pop sticks helped, but always fell into the door cavity when someone opened the windows. Then at around 130K miles - after a windshield replacement - we would get a LOUD buzz whenever we went over 55mph. I mean LOUD. Some folks - subaru.org I think, not Edmunds - seemed to zero in on the rubber window gasket as the source. Would have been hard to sell like that, but perfect for my daughter to not speed! Again, though, I felt like the car would go for another 162K easily. Now I know what they mean when folks say you can't kill a Subaru!
I'd say the car had above average reliability overall. So... I'm looking at the 2013 H6 with the special appearance package, but I just saw the mirrors at this site: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2013.html and they are damn ugly!!! Silver grey?? Why would they not be the color of the car? Just to stand out?? Why does Subaru still do stuff like that? Could never understand them... when they go upmarket they always seem to get it wrong. Really dealbreaker for me...
So, now my search takes another direction. But, who knows, maybe someone came to their senses in Indiana or NJ the past few weeks and they will match the body's color. I guess it will be clear by the end of the month. Fog lights are in the wrong direction, too. But the memory setting (long overdue) and the 40% less body lean (also a major complaint I had with the LLBean) are in the right direction. And $40K loaded? Dream on...
My other car, a 2004 MDX with 102K miles, has been unbelievably reliable. Nothing wrong but a radiator leak. Much less expensive to maintain. And with the base under $40K right now (new design coming out this fall), I might end up taking a little loan out to stretch... I don't care if it will look old within a few months. Reliability is my main concern, then looks.
As Dave Matthews once said... too many choices...
Take care,
Ralph (Otis)
Aw c'mon juice - that's a poor comparison. The Explorer Sport is a high performance vehicle. When the Outback seats 7 and pumps out 350 HP, you can compare them.
The Outback and the Edge are more comparable.
Can you get one without the appearance package? Aren't those mirrors body color? Some folks like stuff like that, I guess. Looks OK on the silver cars (LOL).
I'm sure a body shop could paint 'em for you for very little if they bug you that much.
MDX seems to be the official car of Potomac. A lot of friends have them and the one common theme - they all complain about the gas mileage (and the premium fuel).
Point is, sticker prices have really crept up. I just drove a pair of german compacts with 4 cylinder engines, each nearly $50 grand. Yikes.
I'd take a Legacy GT over the C250 even if they cost the same amount!
Oh you'd take a bag of poo over most cars as long as it had a Subaru badge on it!!
Turn it around - I'd take the C250 if it cost the same as the Legacy GT. And in reality the Legacy is creeping closer to the price of an MB which suprises me.
The throttle on that car is awful. The first inch of travel does nothing, literally. Then you press it more, and after some lag, all the power comes on at once. So it's lag, then more power than you wanted.
In Sport mode is slightly less bad.
C350 ($40,575) is a much nicer car, but below that, I'll pass.
In fact I just read that for the C300 4Matic models with will use a de-tuned 3.5l V6 instead of the turbo.
Heck, they should do that for RWD too!
Does easy-access oil filter mean I do not have to slide under the car to change oil?
Also, I did not see any mention on the Subaru website or press release. How do you know about this easy-access filter?
Thanks.
The 2013 Outback uses the 2011 & 2012 Forester FB25 engine ... there are pictures all over the web showing the easy-access (top mounted) oil filter. It's also the same location on the 2012 Impreza FB20 engine.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
along with the new engine/trans, the front end (bumper and lights) will be redesigned, they are adding rear seat air ducts, and there are going to be a few new colors. Might be a few more things I forgot, but those were the big ones.
and the MSRP of a 2.5i limited is going up only about $400, so a good deal for what you are getting.
They will show up soon, and the dealers can order within the next week.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The roof rack cross bars are farther apart now, too. Remember first year models had no folding mirrors? I bet real-world MPG will improve with the new engine. Forester did if you look at fueleconomy.gov reports.
Nice to see they fixed all those mistakes.
2) Does the back seat fold *flat* in a Outback?
Thanks.
No clue about the seat, but when I tried it I don't recall seeing a noticeable bump.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Same hp but significant changes under the skin.
I know a lot of people who swear by their Subaru so I'm putting my money on it and going for a 2013 Outback 2.5i Limited on lease to see how the car works. If I like it, I'll buy it out for my son and let him drive it the first 100,000 miles or so, if not, it'll be back to Audi at the end of the lease. I'm hoping that this is a more affordable option for my kids to keep the car a long time, vs. putting $45-50,000 into a new A6 Wagon or the Allroad that is coming out this year. Stay tuned.
I will probably get a lot of the options since they all look pretty interesting. I hope to do this comment column as a long term "driving commentary". The lease program is supposed to come out early July and I've already picked out all the options for my car when they start writing up orders. I like the fact that this model has the extra 2 mpg over the 2012 plus the stiffer chassis which will hopefully give it a better ride closer to the Audis which are legendary in their road hugging characteristics. I'm not expecting a high performance car but I will try and give people some useful commentary between the two cars (even though the Audi I last drove is an older one). I recently had an Audi loaner and while some of the gismos were nice, the driving feel of the car really had not changed much in comparison to my older car other than the newer cars were a bit more powerful and tighter on the front end which I would have assumed given the higher wear and tear on my older car's suspension vs the loaner. I am also hoping that even though the Subaru has a higher road clearance, the boxer mounted engine is supposed to keep the center of gravity lower but we'll see how this feels when I get behind the wheel. I have another SUV at home so I already know the feel of a somewhat taller car and I'm hoping the Subaru drives closer to the Audi sedan profile.
I haven't locked in the pricing and lease yet but I'll probably wind up with a car with an invoice price around $35,000. I am not getting the bigger engine intentionally as I want the better gas mileage. Except for a couple of smaller cosmetic things, I'm going to get every electronic option to keep the car's resale value someday on the higher side. I'll probably even try the Eyesight option even though I'm usually not a version 1.0 buyer of anything and having something controlling the car besides the driver isn't my usual sense of control (although blindspot warning is something I do think makes sense). Also, unless you need to tow or haul something of size, who needs anything higher than the 170+ horsepower engine. My 130+ hp Audi A6 has more than enough power to accelerate on any of the highways with short ramps like the parkway entrances in Connecticut. Anyone needing more than 170 is just throwing money away for no good reason except vanity on the 1/4 mile time tests.
Wish me luck on the new Subaru and I'll try and report out my experience as I go.
also, Subaru has pricing up for the 2013 now (on the build your own). I specced one out identical to a 2012 on Edmunds (a 2.5i limited with moonroof) and MSRP was only up by $290. A definite bargain considering the upgrades they added.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I am not sure which "upgrades" you are referring to.
The only two changes in the 2013 are the revised roof rack with integrated cross bars and a different engine.
You have to pay for all other options and/or upgrades.
so overall, for less than $300 (plus being a model year newer) it was a good bargain for what you get, especially if you plan to keep it for a long time (and don't want to worry about head gaskets or timing belts).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Today I went to another dealer to drive another, as I always like to follow up with a second road test to confirm my initial impressions, and to hopefully garner some more insight into the vehicle.
Well today I was not disappointed, as the model I drove was a Limited CVT with the new and updated navigation—and the all-new optional Eyesight! Not only that I got to drive it on some fun country roads, as was able to check out the revised suspension.
Comments:
• The suspension is a big improvement over the '12 model. The car felt really taut on the curvy country roads. Subaru has claimed that it has reduced body roll by 40 percent. I believe it. The car felt much more "Euro-like" on the country back roads. As good as this felt, I'm sure the Legacy is even better. A big thumbs up here.
• As with the earlier version I drove, the '13 Outback with this new FB25 engine felt quicker than earlier models. Even the salesman who was with me commented on that, as this was the first time he had been in the '13 model. He also commented that the CVT whine, found on earlier models, was absent in this car. My only wish is that engine had direct injection with ~ 190 or so horsepower, as 173 hp is merely average in this segment. Having said that, there is definitely more low- and mid-range power than before, and that's where most people spend their time anyway. So again, a solid thumbs up here.
• The navigation also seems to have been improved. The salesman commented on the graphics being better than before. It also uses an SD card for easy map upgrades. We played with it a bit, but really can't compare it to the older version, as I'm not that familiar with it. I can say what I saw here was fine, and can only assume it's better than what they previously offered. A rear-view camera is part of the package, and that worked fine—and is almost worth the price in itself. For those who tow (me!), a rear-view camera is really helpful in lining up the trailer hitch with the trailer.
• As to the Eyesight, I had mixed feelings. It warns you should happen to wander out of your lane, which is good. However any time you change lanes intentionally, it also warns you with a buzzer. After a while I think that buzzer might drive you nuts. So I'm not so sure I like that aspect.
Now the adaptive cruise control (part of Eyesight) I love! You have three choices of how much distance you want between you and the car in front. You also get a graphic on the instrument cluster showing what distance of separation that you have selected. I like that. When you come upon a slower car in front, you are alerted by a quick buzz and a graphic of the rear of a car appears next to the cruise indicator on the dash. The car also slows to the speed of the vehicle in front. You don't have to do anything. It's really neat. Should the car in front speed up and pull away, the graphic on the instrument cluster disappears along with a buzz to let the driver know that the vehicle in front is no longer within the CC range. Also neat is the actual mph that the CC is set at is displayed. In my case, it was 60 mph.
The downside to Eyesight is that you have to get navigation and the moonroof. Those who don't want those features are out of luck.
This vehicle also had the optional rear seat back rubber protectors, which work in conjunction with the rear rubber cargo floor area protector. This is the first time I've seen these. They've been offered in other markets before, but never here. The seat back protectors appear to be permanently attached to the seats, which may (or may not) be a problem?
The MSRP for this vehicle was a bit over $35K. Yeah, that's a lot for a 4-cylinder car.
Bob
She liked the adaptive cruise, not that we would ever get much use out of it, since I hardly ever use cruise, and am paranoid anyway so I drive with my foot hovering over the brake. And she rarely drives on longer highway stints (that is my job!)
Also, you get the rear view camera on the limited with the moonroof package, even without the navigation, it just has it in the rear view mirror instead of the display screen.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Rear view camera is also standard on Premium w/ moonroof (since MY2011).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Also - the CVT transmission - the vibration that seems to be so common during deceleration - is that just the way this transmission is or is there a design / engineering flaw that randomly surfaces in Outbacks and you basically have to get lucky to get a vehicle that does not have vibration.
The steering issue - any thoughts or knowledge of the new 2013 model has addressed this?
Lastly, has anyone purchased a 2013 with the new 2.5 L engine and if so, is there a noticeable difference between the power / acceleration of the new model it's predecessor?
Thanks,
I drove 2 new '13 CVT Outbacks, and didn't notice any CVT vibration. The '13 model has an updated CVT. As to power, yes, more low- and mid-range power—where it counts!
No steering issues. Suspension has also been updated. 40% less body roll. Feels very Euro-like.
Bob
I got the model with the Moonroof, Nav, and the Isight System - MSRP was $34,790 - I paid $31,910 before my trade.
I only have about 100 miles on the car but I have to say the car rides great and the build quality is very, very good. I chose the 4 cylinder for better gas mileage. Looking forward to keeping this car for many, many years.
Interior
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2013photos2.html
Exterior
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2013photos1.html
Bob
Although I do like the improvements from the 12 to 13 model year, they are more cosmetic than anything else on the the six cylinder. I am hoping that Subaru will work on better transmissions in the future, a six speed or CVT for the 3.6 (or the Forester which really is behind the times with a 4 speed). I had a 2008 Altima 3.5 SE with CVT before my Legacy, the transmission was really sweet for a CVT and got great gas mileage, I think this is the next step for an already great car.