MINI Cooper

chmeeee · March 2002

There is an absolutely hilarious short movie on the Mini website, it should show up right after it opens a new window. The site is www.miniusa.com

revka · March 2002

Hi everyone- From Edmunds' Daily Headlines section, here's an article about the Mini Cooper that you may find interesting: Why the Mini's making waves (This is not a permanent link) Hope you enjoy.

To chmeeee & someblondeguy- Thanks for the news/links. ;-)

So when is someone going to be taking delivery of a Mini? I remember reading in a previous post that launch date was today (22 March). Anyone heard more about that...?

Revka
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Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

gotenks243 · March 2002

Well, apparantly the statement that March 22nd was the launch date was very correct.

I managed to get to the local Mini dealer today just after they closed. I was unable to talk with a salesperson, so I couldn't tell if this was Day One or not, but at least my dealer was definitely open.

The dealer had 5 Minis. One was sitting outside, an Inca Blue Cooper 5-spd with 16" wheels, chrome, foglights, and heated seats. It had dealer plates on, no sticker and was parked like it was ready to go somewhere, so I'm assuming it was the dealer demo. That Inca Blue looks absolutely stunning outside...even better than under autoshow lighting. On the floor, there was another Inca Blue Cooper, a Cooper I forget the color of, an Electric Blue Cooper S, and a Chili Red Cooper. Again, I was unable to talk to any salespeople, but I have the feeling those were meant to be seen, sat in, and not purchased. I could be wrong.

Going to the dealer and once again seeing the car in person made me fall in love with it all over again. Even though it's the third occasion I've seen it in person, I was once again shocked at the short length when viewed from profile and at the midsize-car-like width when viewed from behind. It's so radically different looking in style and scale than anything else on the market here.

I can't wait to take that Blue 5-spd for a spin. I wonder if the dealer needs a lot boy?

tyce · March 2002

Anyone out there driven the Mini Cooper with an automatic? What are your impressions?

obiwankenobi1 · March 2002

Local Mini dealer here in So Cal (Monrovia, CA - Assael Mini) wants $32K for there Cooper S and $28K for their Coopers! They have 500 people waiting for 30 cars!

Well, there goes the chances of getting them at MSRP! C'mon people! STOP PAYING OVER MSRP!!!!

It totally makes car dealerships $! Do we want car dealerships to make $? NO!

revdrluv · March 2002

Are you serious? What moron is paying these prices?

rickrover · March 2002

My dealer is Fields BMW in Orlando - They had some construction snags and couldn't open by the 22nd, they will be open on April 1st. I heard from them again since my last post - they've split their waiting list into a Cooper and an S list. I'm now number 14 on the S list - 3 people below me on the original list want a Cooper so I went from 17 to 14 - cool - I put my $1k deposit down over a year and a half ago... I was #17 when the list was a day and a half old. I have yet to see an actual MINI Cooper in person.

As far as I know they will be charging MSRP on their MINI's - I know I will get my S at MSRP - I'm a regular customer of the BMW dealer - this dealer doesn't mark anything up - M3's M5's, Z8's - everything goes for MSRP.

People will pay those prices, especially for the "Next Big Thing", - remember the New Beetle back in 98? People were paying way over MSRP for one of those early on. They aren't morons - they want what they want and are willing/ able to pay for it.

Wait for all the "Next Big Thing" stuff and waiting lists to clear out - you'll eventually be able to get a deal on a MINI in Cali - no time soon though.

Anyone want to buy my fully loaded (except Nav) Cooper S for say $35K ??? - you can order it any way you like!!! Delivery in July or August !!!

This could be interesting - donning my flame suit.

revdrluv · March 2002

Ok, I get it
You are just saying these people are not morons because you want to swindle them your self.

Seriously though, if they are not morons then they are wasteful fools. Can you be so anxious to buy something that you will pay 15k over what you should instead of just waiting a little while or shopping around??? I know the answer is yes, but it just seems really dumb.

jpgaskell · March 2002

Finally got to see one in person at the Mini showroom in Honolulu yesterday. They have them selling for MSRP, but most of the ones coming in will have option packages added to improve profit margins.

I sat in a Cooper S parked outside and wasn't happy with the interior materials. I hate when they try to make plastic mimic metal. The design begs to be touched, but as soon as you do, it just feels cheap and plastic. Being built under BMW I had higher expectations.

rmorin2 · March 2002

There is a Chili red Mini listed on EBay. Price was $17K early this morning.

wolfx · March 2002

have you seen the interior of the 3 series over the last 2 decades? until recently, it's been pretty cheap and plasticky inside! even now, the current 3 series is no great leap over its japanese counterparts; no, the germans are all about performance, that's where their priorities are, and interior cosmetics have always been an afterthought. It wasnt until lexus raised the standard for luxury interior appointments did mercedes and bmw get the hint and improve theirs; truth is, bmw interiors have always been a disappointment to me, and no surprise the cooper shares those same values. among the german makers, only audi "gets it" when designing the interior

jpgaskell · March 2002

I hadn't really been keeping tabs on BMW since I usually don't consider luxury brands, but the new Mini brought me into the showroom. It looked so great in the photos and I was looking really forward to seeing one in person. Kind of a letdown.

someblondeguy · March 2002

Holiday at work, so I'll take advantage of the time off and will test drive a New Mini. I hope it will be a Cooper 'S', but even if it's "just" a Cooper, I'll still be happy.

I happen to really like the interior and faux metal trim. You don't have to settle for the "alloy pantina" - as it's called, fake metal trim if you don't want to. You can stick with the normal plastic.

Also, the leatherette is pretty convincing at mimicking real leather. I saved myself about $2000 Cdn opting for the leatherette instead of the real thing.

tetonman · March 2002

I have to say that I was impressed with the handling and pick-up of the car. I'm waiting to drive the S as the dealer (Patrick BMW in Schaumburg IL) was just unloading one as I finished my test drive. Salesman said 117 have been ordered at their dealership but didn't give me a split on S vs Cooper...

My only dislike was the very limited visibility using the rearview mirror. I suppose it would be improved by removing the back seat headrests... but at least it will block the SUV headlights behind me.

Are these cars being sold above MSRP in IL? Anyone know or bought one in IL?

someblondeguy · March 2002

The New Mini's rear view mirror is known to be a little on the small side.

That could be why you had a problem.

tetonman · March 2002

But since I'll turn around to look out the back window when in reverse... it's a minor issue. I really like this car. I'm planning on driving an S this weekend.

someblondeguy · March 2002

I plan on owning an 'S' this Spring. ;-)

segesta · March 2002

Re: prices in Illinois. Bill Jacobs in Naperville is "officially" selling at MSRP, but adding nonvaluable options at an enormous price to get the actual, out the door price to the mid-20s. It's supply and demand, I guess. But a car that's a bargain at ~19K suddenly makes you feel like a sucker at 25K. Think of all those poor slobs who bought an Acura NSX for $100,000 in 1991.

I'm just afraid of what will happen if I trade in a Mini in 4 years that I paid 25K for, when a new 2006 Mini will likely sell for list by that point. A good way to take a (small, but still frustrating) bath at trade-in time.

steelypip · March 2002

Three questions:

* anyone know of plans to introduce optional CVT on the Cooper S?

* anyone have the latest skinny on the Alpina 200hp version?

* anyone know of changes/additions planned for 2004 models?

tetonman · March 2002

Looking at the brochures and the website, there aren't many options unless you go to packages or add fog lights. What did you see them add? btw- I'm going there on Saturday as I live in Western Suburbs...

Thanks!

steelypip · March 2002

Three questions:

* anyone know of plans to introduce optional CVT on the Cooper S?

* anyone have the latest skinny on the Alpina 200hp version?

* anyone know of changes/additions planned for 2004 models?

jwilson1 · March 2002

What's that?

Thanks. TAke care.
Joe W.

dave330i · March 2002

Alpina is one of the BMW tuners in Europe.

steelypip · March 2002

"Alpina to build Mini.

Alpina is developing a 200 Bhp Mini Cooper S capable of outgunning the Subaru Impreza WRX. Based on the 155 Bhp supercharged Cooper S, the Alpina uses longer stroke, to stretch the standard 1.6 Litre to approx 1.8 Litre, while increased blower pressure & freer-flowing exhaust will also help boost the torque & power. BMW has access to Mini engineering drawings & an early production prototype. Insiders also claim the Cooper S 6 speed Getrag gearbox is capable of absorbing the 200 Bhp. "

-- from the BMW Owners Club of Hong Kong http://www.bmwclub.org.hk/news/alpinamini/mini.htm (includes a photo of an Alpina-detailed mini)

From what I can tell, this little blurb is fairly old (at least a year), and I haven't been able to dig up anything more recent.

someblondeguy · March 2002

* anyone know of plans to introduce optional CVT on the Cooper S?

Yes. It won't be available til the 2003 models come out. (September 2002).

* anyone know of changes/additions planned for 2004 models?

I heard that the 2003 models will come with an arm rest. Currently, Mini's do not.

salleyne · March 2002

Morristown MINI They had 2 cars available for test drive and poking around and another 5, I think, on hand. The car I drove had the Cold Weather and Premium packages. Also had the Xenons and the fogs but no 17" wheels. Prior to the test drive I thought I really wanted the 17's...
The run flat 16" tires transmit a great deal of impact harshness on bumpy roads. 17" wheels will be worse... and if you don't have to get the complete package to get the other options that I wanted (xenons, fogs)...

2)The salesguy claimed high sixes for 0-60. Whatever. With three people in the car I thought the acceleration wasn't breathtaking but very well balanced with the ability of the suspension. Nice solid no waiting pull. I liked the motor A LOT. The 6 spd. stick was great. Light and well defined, like a Honda, but with a notchiness that I thought was just fine, like a Miata. Clutch takeup was short but progressive and light. Nice...

3)Tires were harsh. OK. The car felt light and tossable. I see it winning it's Autocross class. A real ball to drive, very little body roll. Sticks well as far as I could tell.

4)Interior. Loved it. Pictures don't do it justice, make everything seem smaller than it is. That styalized silver interior door handle is actually quite thick! The golf ball on the shifter almost filled my palm. Everything about the interior felt very substantial. Panoramic roof? A must have feature. Much simpler than the roof on the C-Coupe. The interior mesh shades are hand operated. I figure, fewer motors to break. Head room is great!!!! Didn't get a chance to sit in the back, so I can't talk on rear knee room. Drivers perch was superb. Good leg room in front, seats felt great (can't remember how the seat bolstering felt...) The Leatherette is the ticket! Looked good, felt good. I also sat in an S that had the two tone blue interior. Matching blue rugs. Looks great! Not worth it to me. IMHO.

hmmm... what else?
Oh yeah, I liked it a lot!!!

Actually exceeded my expectations. It really reminded me of the mid-80's VW GTI's. But better.
I've driven the GTI 1.8T, Mercedes C-Coupe(twice), Subaru WRX(wagon and sedan), and the Acura RSX. More Tourque than the RSX, better interior than the WRX, as quick as the C-Coupe and should handle better due to the bmw sourced suspension bits as well as less weight, and if you really like the GTI, take a look at this car. Greater power and tourque to weight ratios than everything except the WRX. Should cost less than a WRX even with a couple of options and you can safely hand brake turn. Maybe that's apples and oranges. Maybe I like oranges better.

rmorin2 · March 2002

I am #107 on the waiting list for a Mini (not an S). I was told that 85 out of 106 were waiting on an S and they are probably looking at a Fall 2002 delivery date at best. On the other hand a non-S wait is only about 2-3 months. Is this what others are being told? Also, what are your thoughts on the hottest colors? In other words, which colors are not being sought after?

Can someone who has driven a non-S please post their driving impressions? I am most interested in the handling with the standard 15" wheels. I will be commuting over 75 miles each day and don't want a bone-jarring ride but do want decent handling. Thanks.

tyce · March 2002

Asked MiniUSA about 2003 "S" with CVT. They didn't really answer the question, but said "MINI Cooper S will only be available with a Six speed manual gearbox, which is designed and manufactured by Getrag. Stirring through a gearbox is deemed mandatory for properly spirited motoring. Thus an automatic is currently unavailable in the Cooper S.

The Cooper has a full chrome grill and the Cooper S has chrome on the outside and the three inside slats are body color. I have not seen anything for the 2003 Cooper S that says the grill will be changed."

So you see, they didn't rule out a CVT in 2003, but implied it wouldn't have one. Where has anyone gotten the info that CVT will be an option on the "S" in 2003?

seminole_kev · March 2002

the 6-speed Getrag tranny in the MINI Cooper S is the same tranny that's in the SVT Focus.

tetonman · March 2002

A 75 mile round trip commute will be fun in this car, unless you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic...

I took the mini on an extended test drive in Illinois on main roads, through a subdivision, and on the interstate. To get the experience of the car, I turned off the climate control and radio. I alternated between having the sunroof open and closed (it was sunny and 65 degrees last Saturday). Here are my thoughts...

It took me a while to get used to the speedometer in the middle of the dash, my eyes kept going to the tach. For me, the toggle switches are cool, but it would take me some time to memorize what they are for and where they are located. I don't like looking down in rush hour traffic here as the commute is like the world's longest slinky with a lot of sudden slow downs and stops...

I was very comfortable in the seat and impressed with the interior space. I'm a medium sized guy (5'10") and felt very comfortable. The ability to get the seat exactly how I like it was key.

I like the perkiness of the engine. I know that the reviewers have said the non-C is somewhat slow to accelerate, but I didn't feel that way. I was able to accelerate quickly on the interstate ramp and to pass a couple of cars. The shift was clean and perfect in my opinion. The clutch is excellent (you don't need to floor it to shift).

The sunroof became a must for me after this drive. The wind sound is tolerable but with the sunroof open and the windows down it felt like I was driving my old '76 MGB. That is a very high compliment in my book.

I could easily see myself driving a MINI to work and back. I think it would be fun. I am going to drive an S to see the difference. However for $19k out the door the regular MINI works for me. I want it in British Racing Green with no stripes.

Tetonman

sphinx99 · March 2002

I saw quite a few of these in France over the last two weeks.

The new Mini looks very nice. The chrome exterior trimming is extremely sharp; I don't know how it'll weather or look when the car is dirty, but in new condition it lends the Mini a pretty classy appearance.

It is, however, very small and I think this will rule it out as an option in the minds of many potential owners. It looked small on the roads of Paris, which were largely bereft of Cadillac Escalades. I'd hate to imagine what would happen to a mini in a collision with the average American sedan, SUV or pickup truck.

It sits low to the ground with wheels spread out about as close to the corners of the car as I have seen in any car. The impression, even without sitting in it, is that the car would handle extremely well. In terms of wheelbase vs cabin design, as well as exterior design, the Mini actually reminds me of a Chrysler PT Cruiser on a number of levels. It's like a smaller, lighter and more nimble PT.

My opinion is that the car will do well, but I don't see it dominating the automotive landscape of the U.S. given its size; I would not feel very secure driving it. After the dust has settled, I expect the mini to remain a dominant car throughout Europe, and an "interesting" car in the U.S. Also, it should be said that I saw many, many Minis in the cities, but none outside of the cities nor on open high speed highways between cities. That gave the impression of the Mini being a great city car.

steelypip · March 2002

someblondeguy -- Thanks for the information. How did you find out the CVT would be offered on the 2003 Cooper S?

(I submitted an email enquiry on miniusa.com and got a not very helpful response - explaining that the Cooper S was for "enthusiasts", that manual was required for best performance, etc, etc.)

I would definitely opt for the S with CVT - best combination of power (for open road, low traffic conditions) and convenience (for agonizing stop-and-go rush hour traffic).

How many other people here would be interested in the S with CVT?

rickrover · March 2002

I'd bet BMW will offer the S with a CVT sometime in the future. If you want to get a good feel for what a MINI S would be like with a CVT, take an Audi A4 out for a spin with a CVT, very impressive. I've driven the A4 with a 1.8 turbo with stick and CVT as well as the 3.0 - amazing - I'm sure the MINI CVT is just as impressive.

I finally got to see a MINI in person a couple days ago behind the BMW dealer, they had 17 back there. My MINI dealer will not be open until Monday due to construction delays - I have an appointment at 9:30 Monday morning. I could pick a non S MINI out next week and take it home on the spot - they have about 30 in stock for their late opening day. They said I could buy a non S now and trade it in on my S when it comes in in July or August and get what I paid for it in trade. I think I'll pass on that, a friend of mine is going to take the dealer up on that deal.

Honestly - my first reaction to the MINI is lukewarm - maybe a test drive will change that.

tyce · March 2002

We would definitely be interested in the "S" with CVT. If it was offered right now, we would have already placed an order. As is, we are agonizing about whether to get a Cooper with CVT or deal with the manual in stop and go traffic. Most of all, we are waiting to hear from someone who has actually DRIVEN the Mini with CVT. So far no reports. Anyone out there been able to test drive one? We don't want to put down a deposit on a car that we cannot even test drive.

larryjor · March 2002

Short & simple: great execution, superb fit & finish, great handling, cute, all the safety bells & whistles. Instant success and think this will also influence VW to bring over the xcellent Polo hatch. Also think in the next few years after the U.S. settles on diesel fuel standards, euro-diesels will begin to show up. Just doing my Karnak schtick.

Ciao,

Larry

dave330i · March 2002

BMW only offers manuals in their M cars. Cooper S might fall into the same category.

rickrover · March 2002

That used to be the case - not anymore now that BMW offers SMG on the new M3 - BMW expects 80% of all M3's will be ordered with SMG. SMG is an automatically shifted 6 speed clutchless manual transmission that is actually quicker than a manual 6 speed M3. SMG shifts much faster than a human could. BMW will offer SMG in all it's future M cars.

CVT is similar -in that it is a very efficient transmission that has no performance penalty versus a manual transmission in the same car. The Audi A4 CVT I drove had none of the sluggishness you'd expect off the line in a typical 4 cyl automatic transmission car. The CVT A4 was just as responsive off the line as the manual trans A4 I drove - if not more responsive - CVT technology is made for the MINI - S or non-S. I'm really looking forward to testing a MINI with CVT when they are available. CVT is the perfect solution for someone living in a crowded urban area that wants the performance of a manual transmission without a clutch.

dave330i · March 2002

SMG is still a manual while CVT isn't. CVT is a very efficient transmission, and I can see BMW using it for base MINI, but I really don't see it in the S.

rmorin2 · March 2002

My commute is almost all interstate with only 3 lights once I get close to work so the 5 speed will be no problem. I had a 5 speed BMW 535i and really enjoyed driving it to and from work. My current car, '97 328ica is great but I am putting too many miles on it so I am getting a Mini to drive most days. Will save the 328 for maybe one or two days every 2 weeks or so in good weather.
Glad to hear you thought the non-S had enough power. Did the one you drive have 15 or 16" wheels and tires? I am on the fence about the 16" run flats as I have read some reports that they really roughen the ride without adding much to the handling. Thanks again. Anyone else who has taken a test drive, please post your thoughts.

miniowner · March 2002

I live in Jacksonville, FLorida. Tom Bush BWM is selling them - no wait. They are selling at MSRP + a forced options package for $1500. I don't mind, since the options include stuff like a 6 cd changer, bike racks, rally lights, floor mats, etc. Dealer experience was pleasant.

The car is great - It's a non "S" 5sp, with 15" wheels. Very comfortable (I'm 5'10"). I highly recommend the leather seating, and the premium package (sun roof, auto climate control). The seats are fantastic. My commute of 50 miles / day is a true joy - and that does include traffic jams. This car is truly a big car inside - you will lose perspective that it's a 2400lb small car. Back seat is cramped - but ok for my kids. As for color, I think the British racing green is the best - but the dark blue looked great as well. My only complaint (ok i have 2) is the key. It's huge! I like BWM or Land Rover's switch blade style better. Also, I wish it had an arm rest for the inside arm.

Performance with the base engine is fine - it's similiar to a Honda Civic in accelleration. I traded in my 99 Cobra Mustang in for this -so that'll tell you that I'm not crying over performance.

"Let's Motor"

revka · March 2002

and congrats on your new Mini Cooper! Thanks for sharing some of your impressions. We look forward to hearing more about your ownership experience.... Happy motoring! ;-)

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

steelypip · March 2002

Does anyone have detailed knowledge of how the CVT was implemented for the Mini?

I'm particularly curious to know whether it's the same as the tech now being used by Audi in the A4 and A6, which reportedly is spectacularly good - rickrover mentioned his Audi test drive experience above, and it's easy to find test drive reports on the web which are similarly glowing.

Here's a link to a Popular Mechanics article in which a few scant details of the Audi CVT are mentioned: http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/2001/12/new_cars_jan_2002/index4.phtml

The relevant excerpt is:

"
But the real story is the Multitronic continuously variable transmission. Unsatisfied with the van Doorne-licensed CVTs that have been used in some other cars, Audi has reinvented the CVT. Audi uses a pull-style belt made of hundreds of sheetmetal links, rather than the van Doorne pusher belt. Several innovative technologies in the transmission allow the use of lower hydraulic pressures, making for lower pumping losses and increased fuel economy. With a lower low gear and a higher high gear ratio, the Multitronic gives better acceleration (1.5 seconds quicker from 0 to 60) than a conventional automatic, and better highway economy as well. This gearless automatic of the future is lighter in weight, simpler in construction and smaller in volume than the geared automatic it displaces. Available with the V6 engine, the Multitronic delivers the acceleration time noted above and carries a fuel economy rating of 19 city/25 highway. Audi executives predict the Multitronic will be the transmission of choice as supplies increase."

So what's the "van Doorne licensed CVT" that Audi didn't like? Is the CVT in the Mini Cooper a van Doorne, or more advanced, like the Audi?

Has anyone testdrove both the Audi CVT and the Mini Cooper CVT? That would be the true litmus test: does the Mini CVT feel as smooth and perform as well as the Audi version?

steelypip · March 2002

A better link for info on the Audi CVT:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/technical/articleDisplay.asp?articleID=22

speculative · March 2002

In a real CVT the car wont roll forward at idel, so audi had to modify there CVT to do that. In addition Audi made the car change engine rpm (both up and down) much more then optimal because people are used to hearing engine rpm change with the old auto's and manuals. Other then that the CVT in the audi is actually just as fast as the manuel. I hope they offer the cooper S with CVT. Its the only way I would buy the cooper. It would be a perfict city car for when I go back home to philadelphia.

rmorin2 · March 2002

Please keep the test drive reports coming. I am anxious to hear from as many different folks on their impressions of the MC's with all sort of tire and wheel combinations, with and without the sport suspension. My car might be here in about 60 days. Can't wait!

edwardsdd · April 2002

I'm in the Air Force and stationed in Germany. I own a German spec silver with black roof MINI Cooper, that I've had since November. It is the base model with 15 inch tires. This car is an absolute blast to drive. It handles better than anything I've ever driven. I have driven the car at 200 kilometers/hour (about 120 miles/hour) on the autobahn with no problems. It sticks to the road like glue. It is truly amazing to drive.

The interior is very nice and larger than you would think. I'm 6'2" tall and I have plenty of room. I wouldn't want to sit in the back though. The base sound system sounds good, haven't heard the harmon kardon system yet. If anyone has questions about the car please ask.

P.S. I only paid $14,500 for the car.

someblondeguy · April 2002

I heard that CVT rumour/fact(?) here:

http://www.mini2.com

It was only for a Cooper, and not the 'S'.

tetonman · April 2002

Which I didn't think were all that bad in terms of the impact on the ride...

steelypip · April 2002

Damn! So there's actually no good evidence that CVT will ever be offered on the S?
That's depressing.
Why the hell wouldn't they offer it? If the CVT is good (as good as the Audi implementation) then it will offer equivalent performance to the manual transmission, but also the incredibly attractive option of forgetting all about shifting in stop and go rush hour traffic. You get the best of both worlds.
I can only think of 2 reasons for not offering CVT on the S:
(1) The Mini CVT is not as good as the Audi (hence falls short of equalling manual transmission performance);
(2) BMW doesn't think the S with CVT would sell in significant numbers.

I'll be very interested to see detailed performance comparisons between the Cooper CVT and Cooper manual -- that should settle the issue in (1). But whether (2) is true, I have no idea. Personally I think the S with CVT would sell like hotcakes, unless Mini's CVT implementation falls way short of ideal.

steelypip · April 2002

Yes, I noticed that too -- Audi tweaking the behavior of their CVT to make it more like a conventional automatic. :-) (which I think is stupid, but hey, that's Audi's business)

I'm in total agreement about an S with CVT being a perfect city car.

MINI Cooper

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