Toyota Engine Sludge Problem

armtdm · September 2001

contaminated/old/high viscoscity oil/ sludged oil can cause high operating temps that can blow a head gasket.

I think the probability of that happening is the same as a snowball in hell!

Sure no oil but with level at least at the min mark on the dipstick and even at 7,500-10,000 miles this will not overheat an engine to blow a gasket.

I think that is really reaching

cholowicki · September 2001

My dealership never mentioned the broken rod until the meeting with the factory rep. Prior to that all they told me was that the engine had seized up & was sludged. Maybe to a mechanic that indicates a broken rod, I don't know. I don't know what a cap bolt is, but the dealership never mentioned anything about that or the bearings. I am NOT a mechanic. And I have mentioned the underbody damage to my Camry many times because I believe the damage to the cooling system is a likely cause for the engine running hot and "sludging" my oil. That was the case I presented at arbitration as a possible alternate cause of sludge, but that was shot down. The only cause of sludge according to Toyota is lack of proper maintenance. And even though I presented the Penzoil article on causes of sludge, apparently the arbitrator agreed with Toyota.

If you go back and look at my previous posts, I have detailed the service intervals once before (it was my second post, I believe, when Scott asked for all the usual details), and I was the one who asked this panel for information on if the underbody damage could have played a role in the sludging.

Your post 1848 makes it sound like I have been changing my story or adding things to it out of the blue. Go back and read my previous posts, as the story has been the same since the first one. I wanted information on the arbitration process that I was going to be facing, and mechanical information on engine sludging because I knew nothing about it. That's what brought me here back in mid-July. Now I guess I need to find a legal advice web site to haunt.

hiwaysanity · September 2001

it read that way.

I didn't go back to read who had the accident damage - I thought it was another poster with sludge. I should have.

I agree, though, that the cooling system damage is very suspect. I'm not enough of a gearhead to have a hard opinion, but it is difficult for me to envision sludge causing seizure or a broken rod. I still think something else went on in that engine besides just sludging.

gimpyrx · September 2001

Amsoil has thousands of vehicles like(mack,peterbuilt,kenworth) with over 50,000 miles on the oil with the Amsoil by-pass filtration system,and oil analysis.
Give me a break.

hiwaysanity · September 2001

I'm not on your case. Just pointing out that, IMO, failed oil can cause glycol to leak. The sword cuts both ways.

BTW, your vehicle's not a diesel, is it?

oldharry · September 2001

Diesel fuel is a lubricant, and gasoline is not. That is one of many factors in the useful life of oil in engines. To compare over the road trucks to autombiles and minivans doesn't send any meaningful data to the sludge in a Toyota argument, in my hunble opinion.

Harry

gimpyrx · September 2001

You are missing the point too!How about this,1986 S-10 v6 (gasoline engine) 310,000 miles on same oil,never pulled the drain plug yet. With Amsoil by-pass system & oil analysis,so much for that theory.
You can call Amsoil to verify.

mrrogers · September 2001

Over at www.clublexus.com, there is a 9/25 entry in the RX300 section concerning an owner who took his car to the dealer for an oil change. Supposedly he was told they automatically add a MOC oil additive with the oil change because of possible sludge problem that arises with repeated short trips when the engine doesn't heat up enough. Any comments?

suvshopper4 · September 2001

I saw that the dealership included an oil additive during my 10,000 mile '01 RAV4 service. Cost was $6. I did not ask for any explanation from the service manager.

adc100 · September 2001

I wouldn't believe that one if it were my own vehicle.

div2 · September 2001

I bet he also owns some prime oceanfront property in Arizona...

sgergen · September 2001

...that all these off-topic posts can live?

Scott

andre1969 · September 2001

I know that, once upon a time, the engines that went into trucks were built more rugged than an equivalent-displacement engine that went into a car. For example, Chrysler used to use a lot of 318's, 413's, and 440's in pickup trucks, medium duty trucks, and motorhomes that were a lot more rugged than what would've gone into a Dart, Newport, or whatever.

By the time the 80's came around, did this still hold true? For instance, the 2.8 that would've been in an '86 Blazer...would it have been any sturdier than the 2.8 in a Celebrity? Or did the Blazer by '86 have the 4.3? I'd have serious problems believing anything could run 310,000 miles on the same oil, though. Makes me think of the Slick 50 commercials where they used to run Mopar slant 6'es or some other under-stressed inline 6 without oil, and showing how Slick 50 "protects" it. The only problem is, those engines can run without oil for awhile anyway, if they're not under load.

armtdm · September 2001

Any engine where the oil was lubricating, then have it drained will run indefinitely under no load.

If people knew that they would never buy those Snake Oil Products!

gimpyrx · September 2001

Well did you call and ask them to send you the oil analysis history of the truck? (715-392-7101)
Go ahead it's true,call'em before you talk smack.

I thought not.

adc100 · September 2001

Put it on a dyno/prony brake at 25 HP. and it ought to go for that amount. I'll call Monday for the test protocall and documentation.

Thanks. BTW I used to use Amsoil, I think it's it a good product.

oldharry · September 2001

Or no change, maybe. If an engine is running continually under light load, it is a lot different than driving to the corner store then racing the car next to you from the light with a cold engine. Is "by pass system" some sales gimmic? When I was a young man working in service stations(anyone old enough to remember?), I remember Chevrolet advertising that they had full flow oil filtering instead of the previous by pass system.

I worked on over the road trucks in the sixties. Then we would change the filters and add a gallon of oil to the big rigs once or twice between oil changes. That was because the contaminants in diesels were not as corrosive as in gasoline engines. Mostly diesels put soot in the oil, and the filters would trap it. One rig I serviced regularly used forty quarts plus four for the filters on an oil change.

Harry

spokane · September 2001

Yep, I remember. I think most of the cartridge filters mounted on top of the engine were of the by-pass type - the pump output was split so some oil flowed to the bearings and some went through the filter and then back to the crankcase. You're right that the full-flow filter (oil from pump to filter to bearings) was news when introduced. For Chevy, wasn't that about '53?

I believe some of today's Amsoil users have a conventional full-flow filter as well as an aftermarket fine-mesh by-pass filter.

gimpyrx · September 2001

The by-pass filters are made of stacked disc that remove particles as small as 3 microns with 97.6%
efficiency.And they also remove water.The by-pass system is the key to super extended drain intervals,and saving money,and the environment.

hicaira · October 2001

With what efficiency does the bypass remove glycol? Not enough, apparently.

HiC

hiwaysanity · October 2001

How does the Amsoil system compensate for the acids that result from combustion?

gimpyrx · October 2001

No by-pass on the gimpy rx. Not designed to take out glycol,it should not be in the oil(except on rx models)apparently.

You want info,go to Amsoil.com and have a blast.

csandste · October 2001

Noticed that Quaker State (like Amsoil) is offering a 250K limited warranty. Need to change oil every 4K-- apparently dino or syn. No word as to any Toyota sludge exception.

http://www.quakerstate.com/resources/index/promos_ads_index2.html

armtdm · October 2001

You must do it at a servie station or quick lube that provides Quaker State, I believe that you cannot change oil yourself for QS

210delray · October 2001

at 74,040 miles. This was the 18th oil and filter change, 17 of which I did myself. No sludge yet.

adc100 · October 2001

You are probably pushing the envelope on the sludge thing. Oh.. you actualy did "real" oil changes.

armtdm · October 2001

My 92 Camry has 137,000 miles and I have done 22 oil changes, been at the 7,500 mile change interval for last 5 years. You have 74,000 and did 18.

And I think 7,500 is overkill with synthetic

210delray · October 2001

But I use dino oil, and some of the car's trips are very short (about 2 miles).

jj35 · October 2001

If someone follows the guidelines in their owner's manual and their vehicle develops engine sludge, then it should be covered under warranty. Toyota's manual states specifically that having your oil changes at other places does not violate the warranty as long as you have receipts. It also states that you may not be covered if you do your own oil changes, though. If they want to change their manual, they have every right to do so, but they should not be allowed to do it after the fact. They can rewrite their owners manual for new vehicles and state that they will not cover engine sludge if your oil changes are done at a non-Toyota repair garage or whatever they want. But they should abide by their own rules in existing warranties.

majorthomecho · October 2001

I agree. Toyota can change their manuals but if people go by Toyota's present language and problems developed, I don't see where what Toyota might do regarding the language is germane.

catgem · October 2001

one would really have to go to court to challenge this!! I simply cannot afford to throw more money at this problem,and that is just what big money Toyota is counting on- unless I can get in on a class action suit, I have no hope. It is a myth that lawyers take cases on a contingency basis-that is only where large damages are projected. It is all very discouraging, but I have learned a bitter lesson: large corporations will always trample on the little guy if they can get away with it. Since this is NOT a widespread problem, Toyota can afford to lose a small percentage of its customers......

210delray · October 2001

It seems that on the face of it, Toyota has drawn its "line in the sand": if your engine is sludged, it's your fault, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Still, Toyota was very accomodating in my case, replacing valve stem seals and the head gasket just before the powertrain warranty expired. And even though I had done all of the oil changes myself up to that point, the dealer accepted my oil and filter purchase receipts without a fuss. It would have been easy for Toyota to "trample" me -- "You have the receipts, but they don't prove you actually used the oil and filters on your Camry -- you could have just been stockpiling them in your basement. Or maybe the oil went into your '74 MG you drive for fun."

Also, as others have pointed out, Toyota replaced at no cost to consumers the faulty head gaskets on the V6 engines used in the early and mid-90s trucks and SUVs.

So the company's stance on sludge seems completely out of line with their actions on other problems (unless of course, faulty maintenance, for whatever reason, was responsible for the sludge forming).

One more thing: I'm still not aware of any posts from anyone who had their Toyota serviced exclusively by a Toyota dealer and got sludge.

jj35 · October 2001

That is a very good question. I posted before that the wife of a co-worker of mine has a Sienna (they actually bought it based on my initial satisfaction with my van). They have of course been very concerned about my situation. His wife has been taking their van to their Toyota dealer for service every 5,000 miles. He was wondering why his dealer is still recommending oil changes every 5,000 miles while mine is now saying 3,000 miles. He looked over the receipts and noticed that Toyota has been putting in Castrol synthetic oil but just charging the regular oil change prices (around $20). I do not know how widespread this is. Maybe it is just this one Toyota dealership, but it is one possible theory. I will post a question about this on the general Toyota site to see if anyone else may be getting synthetic oil at regular oil prices.

ksargent · October 2001

I discussed this issue with a Toyota technician that I know (who works for a dealership). He mentioned a Sienna in which his shop had discovered sludge. The person had documentation to prove proper maintenance; the dealership did the repair under warranty. I am not saying that any particular claim on this board is true or untrue; just that I know of one case where the problem was taken care of.

He also told me of another vehicle in which sludge had been detected. The owner claimed that he had done oil changes every 3000 miles, but had no receipts. When he was told that he would have to present the receipts, he left and returned with a printout from an oil change place (don't recall the specific one). Upon examination, the document looked suspicious; each oil change was EXACTLY 3000 miles after the last one. Not 2999, not 3001, but 3000. The dealership contacted the establishment and, upon questioning, the manager admitted that he had falsified the documents at the owner's request.

For the record, my tech friend strongly recommneds the 3k change interval and the use of Toyota filters and 5W-30 oil.

Ken

catgem · October 2001

At my hearing, the Toyota rep said she "had seen lots of sludge, and it was always due to owner neglect". The arbitrator openly agreed with her!!! Wish you could give the name and location of this dealership, because they are sure bucking the Toyota trend!!!

ksargent · October 2001

I do not feel comfortable saying any more than that - my friend told me this informally and I would hate to see anyone get in trouble for revealing information that his employer might view as confidential.

Ken

armtdm · October 2001

No one ever want to blow the whistle or be the one to spill the beans?

No wonder bin Laden can hit us so easily.

Thus, must discount this story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gimpyrx · October 2001

I'm with you.

fxashun · October 2001

Why can't the name of the dealer be given? There's no real reason not to.

catgem · October 2001

withholding the name of a Toyota dealership for DOING THE RIGHT THING, and honoring the new vehicle warranty....which is what they are ALL supposed to do!!! Hmmm, guess it must be unusual, at least in sludge cases...... Why, you would think that this Toyota dealer has done something wrong!!!!

suvshopper4 · October 2001

I understand the reluctance to name names. The info is damaging, and the source could lose their job.

I posted something similar about a dealership's service department requiring a 5-week wait for an appointment if you bought your car there, and no appointment available at all if you didn't. My source is an insider, and credible to me; however, I would not give him up (if asked) and possibly cause him to lose his job. If you don't trust the secondhand info without a name, you can disregard it. That does not mean the info is untrue.

The way of the world.

armtdm · October 2001

Lose a job or be sued for something that is a fact or truth. If the wait for sevice is five weeks I would love to be fired for letting that out, or if a dealer did cover something under warranty and all are facts. RETIREMENT AFTER JURY AWARD!

Besides, these are second hand acoounts, not even the person that was involved

adc100 · October 2001

This board should be named: Disinformation board, or Fantasy Board. I for one would rather not see a post when the author is "unable" to give out the supposed "propriety" facts. Save us all the effort of reading more disinformation. ie."put up or shut up!! cheeess..

lokki · October 2001

I want to see VIN numbers on any claims of sludge. With the exception CATGEM, and Cholowicki, we've never heard again from any of the 'millions' of victims of Toyota sludge. Anyone else notice that those legions of victims suddenly stopped posting? First all the Siennas got better. Then all the complaints stopped Nary a complaint appeared for the last couple of months. Somebody's fingers got tired. I predict that this will now create a surge of sudden appearances followed by sudden disappearances.

None of them will have believability without VIN's

fxashun · October 2001

If the people that were wronged by Toyota can afford to throw away a months salary without a court fight what's the point in discussing it.

210delray · October 2001

My '97 Camry's valve stem seals and head gasket were replaced under warranty at Brown Toyota.

For more information on this dealership, check out www.browntoyota.com.

catgem · October 2001

I have been home raising kids for 15 years,am now looking for parttime work. What Toyota charged me adds up to more than a month's salary,which I can ill afford. I get child support,small alimony. I cannot afford to lose more money on this,hence I will cut my losses, UNLESS I can get in on a class action suit,which I am endeavoring to pursue. I would guess that many are in the same boat as me-how to beat a monolith like Toyota?? They have lawyers on staff, and remember, no one has died from sludge!! It is like suing over plastic surgery-not a whole lot of sympathy engendered by a bunch of people losing some money.....would a jury really care?? No exploding tires, and none of us are poor,so there you have it....

fxashun · October 2001

Heck call Judge Mathis's show or something. You get something whether you win or lose there I think. But just letting it go would be more emotionally draining to me than losing the money in the first place. There is no way anyone is going to take anything from me without a damn good fight. Guess that's the Marine in me.

majorthomecho · October 2001

Perhaps she (Cat) can go to judgejudy.com. Maybe she can help. I am not being sarcastic.

majorthomecho · October 2001

Reporters don't reveal sources all the time and are not thought the lesser for it. Why should the person have to reveal their source?

Toyota Engine Sludge Problem

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles