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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Sonata
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Comments
The purchase price assumed is not the real world. Even Edmund's True Market Value uses a different purchase price than the TCO.
Measuring resale value against MSRP is foolish. But, I don't buy a car based on resale. I buy based upon what I get for the money. Afterall, cars are a depreciating asset, they are not an investment despite what car sales people may say.
The current Elantra is a great value, but the exterior can't be described as pretty in any way. Homely is a compliment to that car!
By just saying that SOME PEOPLE have to stay in budget does not make you some kind of genius. OF COURSE people have to do that, AND THAT is WHY they buy a HONDA over a Hyundai. Im NOT knocking the car but if it is SOOOOO fantastic as you say, why does it not sell anywhere near what the honda sells? Why does Hyundai finance almost ANYONE, including credit criminals, while I get the joy of "lot dropping" people who dont even deserve to own vehicles, let alone Honda's. As far as Hyundai goes, HALF the cars they sell get sold to people who DO NOT HAVE THE CREDIT SCORE to even think about BUYING A HONDA. In AMERICA, you CAN tell ALOT about someone by WHAT they are driving its just another fact of life that apparently is lost on some of you.
If you want to buy something based solely on price, buy a hyundai or kia NOT a Honda, we dont want you!! (And you know this!!)
If you want a "status symbol" buy a Mercedes or a BMW or an Audi, (again, WE DONT WANT YOU!) Enjoy your $100 oil changes and $1000 brake jobs
If you want to drive a wannabe mercedes buy a VW (and have it fall apart around 80-100K and not be able to get parts for it anyplace other than VW
If you want a boring GREAT car, drive a Toyota
If you want the BEST customer service, the best reliability, the best economy, and the best safety, buy a honda, or lease it (because HONDA's have THEE best leases, why? because AIG gives them the HIGHEST residual value of ANY MANUFACTURER IN ITS CLASS )
Also, one more thing, I like santa fe's .. i think they are good, but its funny that I can get one for THOUSANDS UNDER invoice but yet, if you wanted a CRV you would be looking at paying sticker + and waiting for it to come in at that because they are so popular right now. Again, YOU get what you PAY for.
But you don't mind when someone compares a compact car (Civic) to a full-sized car (Sonata) based on compact-car standards (economy)?
FYI, this discussion is all about comparing the Civic to the Sonata. If you don't think that's a good idea, there's lots of other discussions in Town Hall to choose from.
I almost thought about buying a Hyundai until I saw that the True Cost To Own over 5 years is thousands higher on the Hyundai thanks to its amazingly high depreciation rate.
So that means Hyundais are great buys as used cars, right?
Personally I look at the dollar depreciation vs. percentages. I can't spend a percentage. A car that costs thousands less than another is at a disadvantage when looking at depreciation percentages. Example:
Car A: Purchase price $11,800, depreciation after 5.5 years: $5900. Depreciation rate: 50% (actually a real, personal example)
Car B: Purchase price $16,000, depreciation after 5.5 years $6500. Depreciation rate: 41%
Which car has the lower depreciation rate? Car B. Which car cost less to own, in terms of depreciation, after 5.5. years? Car A. And those numbers don't include the opportunity cost associated with the $4800 extra (not including taxes) paid up front for Car B. For example, interest earned by investing the difference, or interest avoided by paying off debt.
Everything else being equal, I'll take Car A. And I did.
Uh... yeah, right. Which Honda dealer do you work for? I'd like to avoid it if possible when I am shopping for my next car.
Can we stick to facts and reality here, rather than some Honda salesperson's fantasyland? Please?? Versus bunk like this:
if you wanted a CRV you would be looking at paying sticker + and waiting for it to come in at that because they are so popular right now.
Here's some recent posts from the CR-V Prices Paid and Buying Experience discussion:
7084: I was at Schaumburg Honda in Illinois last night and was quoted any CR-V at invoice.
7091: Just started getting some e-mail quotes for a '08 2WD CRV EX around the Los Angeles area. The range has been from 280 below to 500 over invoice + TTL.
7099: ...I headed there [Honda Barn near Boston] and got a CR-V LX for $75 under invoice ($20800 + $125 doc fee).
Nobody likes to read drivel like that.
I plan to have my current Accord for a pretty long time. My 1996 model has 181,000 miles on it and will be sold next year, leaving me the one 2006 Accord, which I hope will be around for at least that many miles. I have 33,800 miles on it now, so I have a ways to go before I'm looking again.
Why would it sell less? Because it's an up and coming brand. In fact if you remember the 1980's, Honda used to sell far less than GM. Did you think honda was a worse car company back then? You gave the exact same reasons for someone to insult a honda in the past. I could say a honda is the same thing as the 1980s and still a piece of crap. Would I be telling the truth? No, because it was a good car back then and it still is now. Try reading some real reviews. Hyundai vehicles are just as good as Hondas. Hell you can read the reviews and the edmunds daily logs.
And yes I get what I pay for. I get a great car, great safety features, great reliability, much better warranty, great interior, great crash test scores, and a cheaper price. What do you get for trying to insult other cars?
All of us here would call Hondas good reliable cars. Heck, I'd recommend a Honda to anyone if they want one. There's zero reason to diss on a Hyundai because of their so-called image.
One other sad thing is you keep insulting the buyers. I have a strong credit score and could easily afford a porsche or bmw, but no, I prefer getting a hyundai because it meets my needs. So I don't fit your demographic one bit.
So......... insulting potential future car buyers is going to bring them running to your dealership? You know, a lot of honorable things happen to folks that damage their credit scores for a part of their lives, lost jobs, divorces, etc. Calling someone a crook because their credit score isn't perfect, seems to me a bit demeaning and counter productive in sales...... However, each to his own......
My girlfriend has a Honda Civic. And its a nice car. Small, economical..... and very practical for a commuter car. Can't knock it, for her its perfect as a commuter car and kid hauler....
For me, I travel to blade shows a few times a year, and intend to continue doing so. I like to drive, so a midsize car makes more sense to me. I had been using a '94 Sable as my long distance transport, but for the last three years, it got bumped by an even earlier car {'93 Taurus SHO}. More comfortable car, and believe it or not, better mileage on the road {32 mpg, highway}.
Older cars, are just that, older cars. They eventually develop issues, need replacement. So, this fall, I paid off some machinery {$3600/mo}, and as spring approached started shopping to replace the Sable........ as it had reached the end. I never looked at a Civic, not because its a not good car, its just a bit small for me for a road car. I did however, research the Accords. As a dealer, I'm sure you know that there's a bit of an issue on the VCM, and even though reports are really good on the four, I really would find it hard to go with a whole lot less car than the SHO.
The '07 Taurus I looked at was a lot less car than I was replacing {body roll, rear drums}. I looked at both Milan and Fusion..... and looked at the Mazda6. Then I went to the Hyundai dealer.......
The '08 GLS V6 I got, definitely is a step up from the '94 Sable it replaced. Better than the '07 Taurus {not even close}. I won't compare it to the others, because they're all good, and a lot of this is personal judgement. I wound up really liking the Sonata, and the "value", ie, all of the features it has, plus the price, really made this purchase work......And, because the price was so good, some of the money that would have been used on the downpayment of a Mazda6 went instead to do some of the restoration work the SHO really could use {less than perfect credit, plus enough downpayment, can still get you financed}.....
I don't really see how the Sonata can compare with the Civic really, except maybe price. Its my take on this, that both are really nice cars, really nice values, in their respective classes.......
Sonata Advantages:
Better Warranty
Better Interior
Far more Standard Features
More Powerful Engine
Civic:
Better Fuel Economy(25/36 vs 22/32)
Moderately Better Resale(But not that important as I plan to run over 10 years)
Push:
Safety - Ratings are very similar and a larger car WILL protect better against death. Both are very safe vehicles.
Size - Sonata is larger, which means more space and trunkroom, but also means harder to park. I guess most people would consider bigger to be better assuming same fuel economy, I actually don't.
Reliability - Hyundai's problems per car is about the same as Honda now.
Looks - Who knows? I like both actually. The new 2006 civic design was an awesome thing.
Price - About the same OTD for comparable models. In this case I'm comparing a Civic LX vs Sonata GLS.
Environment - Both are PZEV cars. Which is awesome for a large car to get PZEV rating!
I know some people shop purely based on size of car, but I actually don't care for size as I mentioned. I prefer a moderately small car if possible...but I ended up buying bigger because it was just plain better. It would be much harder when comparing the Accord, but the Accord freaking costs $4000+ more.
Maybe someone can start a thread comparing a can opener and a roast beef sandwhich next. They are both found in the kitchen, cost about the same, and are useful around lunch time. ;-) Which would you buy?!?!
We were talked into test driving a Sonata when we told the Hyundai salesman that the booming acceleration engine noise in the Elantra was a deal-breaker. We came back after the test drive and said "Thanks, not for us." We weren't shopping for a large-ish, full featured but unexciting-to-drive family sedan, we were shopping for a small-ish, fun-to-drive, high-MPG sporty sedan. The only thing these two cars have in common is some price overlap (depending on model) from what we experienced.
I drove the new Accord and Camry. I liked the drive of the Accord, but again, I felt squeezed in the driver's seat. The Camry fit me very well and I would have bought it if it wasn't for their low-ball offer on my trade. Then, on a recommendation, I looked into the 2009 Sonata. I had the mindset that Hyundai's were junk, but gave them a shot anyways. Boy, was I surprised. The interior is better looking than the Accord's, the Camry wasn't even close to the Accord. The drive was in between the two. Not too soft and not too stiff. I'm coming from a 400hp SUV, so I had to go with a V6. All three are very similar in MPG's and acceleration. They all actually surprised me.
Hyundai offered me almost $3k more for my trade and invoice on the Sonata. Both the Accord and Camry were offered to me at invoice price, too. I guess everyone's hurting right now. I jumped on the deal and can't believe how happy I am.
I also see the price as the ONLY comparison between the Civic and the Sonata. They were designed for two totally different purposes.
For others, like yourself, its not.
You must be a big broad guy. I'm 6'5" and drive 2 older Accords, one with a moonroof, and have plenty of room; not Yukon room, but plenty.
The Civic and Sonata are very different cars though, you are right. Civic - small, efficient, sporty. Sonata - big, more powerful, cushy.
My experience for myself and watching my friends/family car buying experiences is that the buying process goes from general to specific, starting with some high-level decisions about key requirements (e.g., cost, MPG, car style, size and comfort level, performance, etc.) that drive (excuse the pun) someone to a car category (e.g., family sedan) that they believe best fits their overall requirements.
Then they review offerings in that category and either narrow down to a car, or if they don't find what they want they review their requirements and try another category. I can't remember hearing someone tell me they were looking at SUVs and found a great deal on a minivan, so they snapped it up. (Though I'm in an upper-middle class income group, maybe that is more common at lower income levels.) From what I've seen, people want an SUV, for example, and shop until they find one they like and can afford.
BTW - my "silly" comment wasn't directed at the posters in this thread, but more at the idea that there are a sufficient number of shoppers out there trying to choose between the Sonata and the Civic such that we need a multi-page thread on it. (But since I'm contributing to the thread I'm looking pretty silly myself.) :-)
Personally, I just like talking about and learning about most new cars in general, whether or not I'm in the market (which I currently am not - I'm quite happy with my car).
Also I've found the ride and handling are pretty damn good. Obviously not sporty, but I consider it right in the middle between sporty and cushy. Remember the size different in length is really only about 12 inches. Civics have grown a ton. They're no longer the tiny subcompacts people keep imagining.
Now if we were comparing a Fit against Sonata...the size difference would be much bigger And yes I actually did compare the Fit against Civic and Sonata in my buying. Fit's are just too pricey for what they offer to me. I preferred stepping up to something compact/mid.
In addition to the Sonata being both 1 foot longer and 500 lbs (20%) heavier, it also has a different setup in terms of suspension firmness and dampening, tires (I didn't look, but I don't think it has low-profile 205/55 tires like the Civic), steering dampening/feel, etc. The Sonata is designed to provide more isolation from the road and more cush for the tush, if you will, and does so well. It also doesn't provide the great (to some) road feel and fun, sporty experience of the Civic. All about design trade-offs and market segments being pursued.
We drove the Elantra, Sonata, Corolla, and Civic back-to-back in that order, and the Sonata stood out as very different from the rest of the group - it didn't fit in. Remember the old Sesame Street jingle..."One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...) It was one of those moments. :-) Didn't dislike the Sonata, it just wasn't what we were looking for, and I expect 95% + of Civic/Elantra/Corolla/Mazda3 shoppers would feel the same, unless they were shopping for the smaller sedans because of price, and really want a larger sedan and didn't think they could afford it...the Sonata would fit that need very well.
In fact, I emailed a buddy of mine looking for a new sedan to replace his aging Camry, telling him that he should give the Sonata a test drive. I think he'll like it quite a bit...another buddy who currently drives an Acura sedan is thinking about a Sonata for his next family sedan.
Thanks
True, the Sonata is efficient, but we are talking about a 3200lb full-size car with 168lb-ft of torque versus a 2,600lb compact with 128lb-ft.
Remember the size different in length is really only about 12 inches. Civics have grown a ton.
Civics have grown a lot on the outside (176" vs. 189" for the Sonata), but on the inside it is still pretty small. On the flip side it drives small too, making my Accord feel giant in comparison (and its an 06 Accord, which is smaller and lighter than the Sonata).
Still some roughness around the edges...engine noise intrudes a bit under acceleration, but it's not a problem like w/the booming sound with the Elantra. The Sonata engine sound at higher revs isn't exactly pretty, but it's not harsh like my long-departed Mazda 626 (which sounded like a lawn mower at high revs). Ride is smooth, more dampened than I like. There is a fair amount of lean in turns, but things feel under control. As I noted above, it is a bit muted in terms of steering feedback/road feel. The overall ride is very smooth.
If I was shopping for a sedan in that class I'd include it in my list to drive/consider. The bang for the buck is very good in terms of features and interior appointments. I haven't been in a Camry/Passat/Altima in years, so can't compare it to those cars in that range.
I think the Elantra is a little quieter than the Civic when cruising, likely partly due in part to the thinner, less aggressive tires on the Elantra. (Under acceleration the Elantra is the loudest car I've driven in recent memory.)
I have taken my son's Civic on a few freeway cruises over the past few days ranging from 30 minutes to an hour, and have been pleasantly surprised that the noise level hasn't felt like it would be a big problem on a longer drive. We didn't buy it for long drives, of course, so that wasn't a factor in our purchase decision. If we drive to Vegas or to go skiing, we take my 5-series or the Sienna mini-van.
I think the worst noise w/the Civic, actually, is on rougher asphalt surface streets, rather than on the freeway. There is a shopping area near our home where the road noise along-side the parking lot is pretty loud at lower speeds. Luckily the total time involved on that road is about a minute, so the overall impact isn't a problem. However, if I had to drive a long distance on roads like that it could be unpleasant. I should note the noise is also there, albeit muted, in our other cars. It's just not a nice road.
I have not noticed significant wind noise w/the Civic. Most of the noise I hear comes from the tires. I haven't looked them up yet online to see how they fare in the noise ratings against other tires in the same size.
Overall I'm very happy with the Civic's balance of factors like size/comfort/noise/MPG/handling...I've been driving it while my car has been in the shop. My son got his license yesterday and will be taking over driving the Civic more and more as we get comfortable with him driving on his own. I'm going to miss driving the Civic. :-)
I think the issue may be the "full throttle" part of the statement...I haven't had either car at full throttle, but have had both at I guess what you'd call moderate to moderat+ throttle (to get the car to go up a road with an incline, to accelerate around other cars) and the Elantra was definitely the one that caused our ears to bleed in those real-world situations... ;-) Driving up an incline was particularly annoying in the Elantra...resulted a steady booming sound in the cabin .
I did look up the Civic tires (Goodyear Eagle RSA 205/55HR16) and wasn't surprised to read that they get low marks on noise, among other issues - complaints about wet/snow traction as well, lucky we live in the sunbelt. They do handle well in dry.
When we replace the original tires in the future (with another brand) we'll see a reduction in road noise, possibly an up-tick in mileage depending on what we pick.
The Elantra's engine is one of the by far biggest reasons why I'm not a current fan. I dislike the loud unrefined snarl that happens at high rpms. It just doesn't have that proper asian smoothness that I see from comparable cars. Decent power just doesn't replace a good sound and feel.
It seems to me you are not an anomaly, as I'm getting the feeling Honda sales people think they're selling some incredibly superior product and that you need them, not the other way around. I was completely ignored when I walked into the Honda dealership, and finally had to ask if there was a sales person who could help me. My experience at the Hyundai dealership (Absolute Hyundai in Mesquite, TX) was so incredibly different, in a good way. The level of attention I received, and the whole buying experience was a pleasure. Although they didn't need to do much, as the Sonata basically sold itself. 15 minutes into the test drive and I knew this was the "one." I've had a [non-permissible content removed] eating grin on my face for the past month every time I get behind the wheel of this fantastic vehicle.
Thank you for reaffirming what I already felt after my experience test driving a Honda. I will make sure Honda NEVER gets my business in the future.
Not sure how much good information about a Honda from a guy named Nissan, but I actually appeared in a commercial for my local Honda dealer before they moved. I touted their "3 year, 36,000 mile free maintenance plan." Also, they have carried me to work when my Accord has been at the dealer. They don't wash my car, but they are on a small lot in town, and don't have the room for an automated car-wash facility.
I'm not a big-shot once-a-year car buyer; I have 180k miles on one Accord, with 33k on another, and am 20 years old. Everybody gets good treatment, regardless of age.
There are several Honda dealerships in my area (4 within 10 miles). I visited three of them and none were alike.
- The first dealer was very appeasing and found me a car to test-drive, alone. After the ride I told him I was still just looking and not ready to buy. He summand his manager over to try and talk me into a "today only" deal. I walked out after telling him the same thing.
- The second was also very nice and got me a car to drive, but insisted on coming with. Afterwards, I told him I was just looking and was able to leave without incident.
- The third was the strangest. I walked in, looked around and was never able to make eye contact with a salesman. I walked out in their lot, checked out a few cars and came back in. Again, I couldn't find anyone willing to even acknowledge my presence. I walked out...
If you've been buying new cars as long as I have, you would learn not to base an opinion on one or two dealerships. All Honda salespeople, and their sales practices, are not alike. This is true for every manufacture.
I had the same experience at a local Chevrolet dealer. Makes you wonder how they sell anything. I wasn't looking to buy, but wouldn't have minded seeing in the then-new Malibu (those on the lot were locked).