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Well, if life is making you feel left out and you want to invest money, you can buy my yellow XLT2001 Escape loaded - everything - for any amount over 18,000. Then you too can post here with an Escape that stalls and have something to contribute - first hand up front knowledge of what it feels like to own a real yellow lemon Escape.
I don't visit this room to rebute anyones claims. Why I visit this room is to rebut those who claim ALL Escape/Tribs are going to have problems or are just plain lemons. And, I wonder why anyone who doesn't even own an Escape would visit this room??
As I have said, take a look back yourself and count the names and problems, many are repeats..
Next, if you think that everyone is telling the complete truth in these forums, I have a nice red (or orange) bridge to sell you that crosses a beautiful bay...
What I found out was that there are actually approximately 15 to 20 complaints that are constantly replicated throughout their database.
Like any goverment project, it is screwed up royally...
I had an initial major problem of needing an engine replacement at 2400 miles in my Escape.
The good thing though is that my dealer (Rodman Ford) replaced the motor with a new one, gave me a free loaner for the duration of the repair, and quite frankly did the job correctly and professionally.
This does not detract from the fact that my Escape is an excellent vehicle, fun to drive, and overall is a good value for my money.
If you want to find out the truth of reliability, ask the service mechanic of any auto dealership for any car that you are looking to buy. The Escape has a very low repair rate record if you ask the Ford
dealer mechanics.
My new engine runs great, my overall milage is 21-22 mpg, the Mach1 audio is the best I have ever heard in any car, and I enjoy driving my Escape a lot.
I'm hoping to get the same 200K - 250K miles of use that I got from each of my previous two Fords.
I don't know if any of you who out there who fit that description--and only that description-- would be interested in such an exchange of information. But if so, do you have any idea of how we could arrange to swap e-mails?
I surf here daily, and I don't own an Escape or Tribute.
I had them on my list when I started shopping, and I want to know how they're doing.
Do you not check any other threads unless they say Escape or Tribute?
This dealership well deserves your good word about them..
I'm sure yours will be fine...
Thanks.
baggs, I do not have a link or a copy, I just happened to read it in passing.
I found the wind and road noise on the highway so loud the radio couldn't cover it. You had to talk loudly from the backseat over it.
Was this just an isolated incident? Has there been any changes to the car to fix this? (We had the new style mirrors).
What changes are in store for 2003 and when do the 2003's come?
I work at the Kansas City plant where Escapes are built and I have seen the first new 2003 models in their testing stage. If anyone would like a copy of the 2003 brochure just email me at escape2003KCguy@yahoo.com.
How are they doing it by the way?
I have the hard copy documents that were availble as of April 18, 2002. I do not have subsequent documents. NHTSA's web page does not appear to be up to date in the defects investigation section. The customer complaints do seem to be up to date. If you check the defects investigation section, you will see that the monthly update only shows through February.
NHTSA opened the investigation on December 7, 2001. There were 49 ford escape complaints and 51 mazda tribute complaints. There were an additional 3 escape/1 tribute "vehicle owner questionnaire (VOQ) reports submitted subqequent to original complaint reports and alleging a subsequent stalling event."
Summary: "ODI (Office of Defect Investigations) received 49 reports on the Ford Escape and 51 reports on the Mazda Tribute alleging that the engine would stall out without warning while driving. 63 of the 100 vehicles have had repair attmepts more than once. Reported repairs include replacing the following components: Electronic Engine Control (EEC) Power Relay for the Programmable Control Module (PCM), Fuel Pump, Exhaust Gas Recirculation (ECR) Valve, and Ignition Starter Switch. One attempt at reprogramming the PCM was also made. In addition, many of the reports indicate that dealers have not been consistently successful in correcting the stalling problem.
There are no Technical Service Bulletins or recalls issued regarding this subject on these vehicles."
On February 1, 2002 NHTSA sent a letter to Ford advising them of the investigation concerning alleged stalling in 2001 and 2002 Model Year Ford Escape and Mazda Tribute vehicles. The letter requested specific information from Ford as part of the investigation (6 page letter). Attached were all of the VOQs. Ford had a deadline of March 15, 2002 to provide the information.
Ford apparently had a conference call with NHTSA,and provided a letter to NHTSA on March 15, 2002, providing much of the requested information.
Letter from Ford:
"This is in partial repsonse...
In a February 15, 2002 telephone conference, members of my staff were informed by [NHTSA staff] that the subject vehicles are 2001 through 2002 Ford Escape vehicles equipped with 3.0L V6 engines and that vehicles with 2.0L, 4-cylinder engines are not included as subject vehicles. The Mazda Tribute is also not included as a subject vehicle in the request to Ford.
[My note: It seems Ford was not responsible for producing documentation for Mazda records. I do not have any information that indicates NHTSA requested the same information from Mazda]
On March 11, 2002, Ford requested an extension of time to April 12, 2002, in order to provide answers to Request Numbers 5 and 8. Complete answers to Request Numbers 1 through 4, and 6 through 7 are attached. Ford is also providing a partial response to Request Number 5."
Part of the response states "Ford has identified two responsive Special Service Messages (SSMs) and five responsive Internal Service Messages (ISMs) that may relate to the alleged defect in the subject vehicles. In addition, Ford is drafting a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) that may relate to the alleged defect in the subject vehicles and is planning to release this bulletin in April 2002. Appendix S contains a copies of the SSMs, ISMs, and the Draft TSB."
(I did not receive copies the the appendices).
The information was sent to my on April 18, and was described as the complete response as of that date. Ford's response for which they requested an extension to April 12, 2002 was not included.
I have since checked NHTSA.com and ALLDATA.com and have not seen the TSB as of May 8, 2002. I have not requested additional documents from NHTSA.
This is the most recent and direct information I have.
Hope this helps anyone who is interested.
No stalling, runs great.
Recently I complete removed the slidable
part of roof rack. Wind noise has gone down
a lot. Worth a shot for those who don't
need roof rack and don't like excessive
wind noise!
Imran
2001 V6 XLT Escape with 9,000 reliable miles.. Not one problem.
I am aware that the newest Escape models have a re-designed mirror. Has anyone heard whether this makes any difference. I have not had the noise problem experienced by some. One owner suggested that in fact the vibration problem was with the entire door vibrating, hence the mirror as well.
Anyone out there hear of someone that had mirror vibration problems that was actually resolved, and if so, how?????
Thank you for the information.
Murphy
Are you going to sue the government too for not forcing Ford to issue a recall? Or could it be that either there is no pervasive defect, or that the issue that some are experiencing is not a safety hazard to any driver that could pass a standard driving test.
If you have such strong feelings about Ford as a company and its previous vehicles, why did you buy an Escape in the first place?
Has the company you worked for ever sold a product that someone percieved as defective? Should they try to drive that company out of business?
I have not checked back with NHTSA since April 18 to find out if any additional documents were submitted.
I don't know what the outcome of the investigation will be. I would like to see the TSB and I would hope there is a reliable fix that works consistenly. It concerns me that there is no information out there that indicates the reason for the stall was identified and reliably fixed.
Murphy
to my 2001 Tribute:
Removed cross bars from roof rack: Wind noise
down a lot. Previously, at 80-85 MPH, I had
to turn on music loud. Last weekend, at 80-85,
it was mainly quiet. There was some wind noise
but that's natural.
I test drove 2002 model. There is NO change
in roof rack. Same level of wind noise as 2001.
2003 is probably re-designed as scape2 tells us.
I wonder if 2001 Tribute can use 2003 roof rack!
Since I hardly use it...not worried.
Changed air filter: from factory installed to
K&N's air filter for tribute. It's reusuable.
I defintely have noticed increase in responsive-
ness. Don't know how much it will help on mileage.
Maybe not much. I'm just happy that it has
improved the performance noticeably.
Imran
Glad to hear about your wind noise issue..
They claim to have 50% more air pass thru
the filter. I don't buy into extra gas mileage
...but I do notice better pick-up/acceleration.
That's exactly what I wanted to get by replacing
the filter.
scape2, let us know what's your experience.
Anyone else having this problem??
I have Mazda's checklist for the stalling problem. I don't know if this is a TSB or not. I got it last weekend when I picked up my Tribute, which was serviced for the problem. The PCM was reflashed, which means a computer somewhere was reprogrammed.
The entire checklist is 8 pages long, and at the top it says M-Tips Repair Information. Below that it says Type Desc.: Bulletin; Svc. Bulletin # 1-014/02; Subject: 3.0L Intermittent Engine Quit or Idle Dip.
Here are the main steps that are covered:
--Inspection of Idle Air Control Valve;
--PCM Reflashing (vehicles built on or after 1/16/02 proceed to next step. Some 2001 model year PCMs cannot be reprogrammed and must be replaced).
--Inspection of the Evaporative Vapor Management Valve.
--Inspection of Evaporative System Vent Line
--Inspection of EEC Relay
--Inspection of Key Ring Weight(if it's over 9oz. the instruction is for customer to remove some keys)
--Road Test long enough to experience 3 closed throttle decelerations from 40 mph down to 10 mph, with overdrive on.
The procedures for checking the above takes 3 pages. The rest of the 8-page list is a PCM Reflash Procedure Supplement, with two separate procedures, depending on the "tear tag" number on the PCM.
If anyone wants more details, let me know.
Well, they didn't get it right after several tries. The stalling issue is nearly 2 years old. What they hell have they been doing for the last 2 years? Something as serious as this should have been addressed in matter of 2 weeks even if they need to work round the clock. Stuff like this really makes it hard for ford/mazda to keep customers as well as gain new ones.
This could be helpful to those who already have an Escape or Tribby because hopefully some of the changes can be retrofitted onto previous years. The changes I see are toward making Escapes much quieter etc.
Printable View (99 KB)
Article No.
02-8-6 DRIVEABILITY - INTERMITTENT ENGINE QUIT OR IDLE DIP - NO DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) PRESENT - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.0L DURATEC ENGINE ONLY
Publication Date: APRIL 22, 2002
FORD: 2001-2002 ESCAPE
ISSUE:
Some vehicles equipped with the 3.0L Duratec engine may exhibit an intermittent engine quit condition. This is usually a one time event during closed throttle deceleration with no Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) and no Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). The engine will restart immediately.
ACTION:
When normal diagnostics cannot pinpoint the root cause, refer to the following Driveability Checklist for details.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
With the transmission in Park, the engine should be at idle at approximately 750 RPM, and the engine temperature should be at least 88°C (190°F). All accessories and the engine cooling fan should be off. Using only WDS version B17.1 or later, verify that Idle Air Control (IAC) duty cycle is between 32%-40% with no purge flow. If IAC duty cycle is within specification, then proceed to Step 2 now. If IAC duty cycle is out of specification, replace IAC with part YF1Z-9F715-AA. Verify that IAC duty cycle is between 32-40% with no purge flow. If IAC duty cycle is within specification after replacing with a new IAC, then proceed to Step 2 now. If IAC duty cycle is still out of specification, replace throttle body with part YL8Z-9E926-DA. Verify corrective action, then proceed to Step 2.
NOTE: ENGINE RPM WILL SLOWLY RAMP UP. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO CHECK THE IAC DUTY CYCLE WHEN THE RPM IS AT 750 RPM. EVEN 800 RPM IS TOO HIGH FOR CHECKING IAC DUTY CYCLE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS.
For vehicles sold in the U.S. and Canada perform the following: If the vehicle was built on or after 1/16/2002, then proceed to Step 4 now. If not, reprogram PCM with WDS version B17.1 or later. Only use WDS version B17.1 or later during this reprogramming. Some 2001 model year PCMs cannot be reprogrammed and must be replaced. This is determined by the MPC # located in upper left corner of the barcode on the PCM. If the PCM is an MPC 160, then replace with part 1U7Z-12A650-AXA and reprogram with WDS version B17.1 or later. If the PCM is MPC 161, then just reprogram with WDS version B17.1 or later. Verify latest calibration was successfully reprogrammed. WDS should show latest calibration level as 1U7Z-12A650-AXB. Proceed to Step 4.
For vehicles sold in Mexico perform the following: If vehicle was built on or after 1/16/2002 then proceed to Step 4 now. If not, reprogram the PCM with WDS version B17.15 or later. Only use WDS version B17.15 or later during this reprogramming. Some 2001 model year PCMs cannot be reprogrammed and must be replaced. This is determined by the MPC # located in upper left corner of the barcode on the PCM. If the PCM is an MPC 160, then replace with part 1U7Z-12A650-AZA and reprogram with WDS version B17.15 or later. If the PCM is MPC 161, then just reprogram with WDS version B17.15 or later. Verify latest calibration was successfully reprogrammed. WDS should show latest calibration level as 1U7Z-12A650-AZB. Proceed to Step 4.
With the transmission in Park, the engine should be at idle at approximately 750 RPM, and the engine temperature should be at least 88°C (190°F). All accessories and the engine cooling fan should be off. With WDS version B17.1 (U.S.) or B17.15 (Mexico) or later, determine if the Evaporative Vapor Management (EVAPVM) duty cycle stops increasing and remains at 95-100% while FTP holds at approximately 2.6 volts. If this occurs, replace the EVAPVM valve with part number YL8Z-9C915-AA. If EVAPVM is functioning correctly, the duty cycle should increase to 84-100% with the FTP decreasing to approximately 2.2 volts and then recycle back to 0% duty cycle while FTP holds at approximately 2.6 volts. Do not replace the EVAPVM valve. Verify corrective action, then proceed to Step 5.
With the transmission in Park, the engine should be at idle at approximately 750 RPM, and the engine temperature should be at least 88°C (190°F). All accessories and the engine cooling fan should be off. With WDS version B17.1 (U.S.) or B17.15 (Mexico) or later, if EVAPVM drops to 0% from 60 - 80% (premature purge shutoff), check for an obstructed vent line. This condition may be accompanied by a sudden RPM drop while idling. The premature purge shutoff is caused by the tank not reaching a pre-specified vacuum state. To clear the possible obstructed vent line, disconnect the vent line in the evaporative emissions system from the check valve side (check valve part # is YL8U-9C915-AB). This connection is located just forward of the evaporative emissions canister assembly, underneath the vehicle in the area of the driver side rear seat. Using shop air, blow the vent line from the check valve side forward (towards the brake booster). In the past, spiders have been known to construct webs in vent lines so handle with caution. Possible obstructions in the vent line can prevent the evaporative emissions system from purging properly, and in some cases stalling occurs. Verify corrective action, then proceed to Step 6.
If the Electronic Engine Control (EEC) relay has stamped lettering, proceed to Step 7 now. If the EEC relay has white lettering printed on the top surface, replace with a new Hella service relay that is all black and has stamped lettering on the top surface. Both the new Hella service relay and the old relay have the same part number (FOAZ-14N089-A). Make sure the relay you are installing has stamped lettering. For location, use 2001 Wiring Diagram sections 303-07B-00-1 Connector C1016, 700-06-00-37 Battery Junction Box. Proceed to Step 7.
Ask the customer if they have significant weight (approximately 9 oz or more) hanging from the key ring while the keys are in the ignition. If they do, and the engine quits while traveling over bumps, the key ring may move the ignition cylinder out of the Run position and stop the engine. When this occurs, all gauges immediately shut off (fuel reads "E", tachometer goes to zero, speedometer goes to zero immediately). It is recommended that the customer attach fewer keys to the key ring that retains the vehicle ignition key. Proceed to Step 8.
Road the test vehicle long enough to experience 3 closed throttle decelerations from approximately 40 mph down to 10 mph. Use scan tool to examine engine RPM during test. Ensure there are no engine RPM dips below 680 RPM.
PCM CALIBRATION INFORMATION
Application Old Part Number (-12A650-) Tear Tag New Part Number (-12A650-) Old Calibration New Calibration NGS/WDS Qualifier
2001MY 3.0L ESCAPE - FORD 1U7A-AXA ATF1 1U7A-AXB 0M11A30511 0M11A30512 WDS
PCM CALIBRATION INFORMATION
Application Old Part Number (-12A650-) Tear Tag New Part Number (-12A650-) Old Calibration New Calibration NGS/WDS Qualifier
2001MY 3.0L ESCAPE - FORD 1U7A-AXA ATF1 1U7A-AXB 0M11A30511 0M11A30512 WDS B18.4 Release or later
2001MY 3.0L ESCAPE - CAA 1U7A-AZA ESG1 1U7A-AZB 0M11B30511 0M11B30512 WDS B18.4 Release or later
2002MY 3.0L ESCAPE - FORD 2L8A-AC BUS3 2L8A-AD 2M11A30506 2M11A30510 WDS B18.4 Release or later
2002MY 3.0L ESCAPE - CAA 2L8A-BC ZRZ3 2L8A-BD 2M11B30506 2M11B30510 WDS B18.4 Release or later
Obtain an Authorized Modifications Decal (FPS 8262 - orderable through DOES II, 25/pkg) and list the date, dealer number, and summary of alterations performed. Select a prominent place adjacent to the Vehicle Emission Control Information Decal suitable for installing the Authorized Modifications Decal. Clean the area, install the decal, and cover it with a clear plastic decal shield.
AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS
THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE:
Reprogrammed Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Per TSB 02-8-6
THESE MODIFICATIONS HAVE BEEN APPROVED, AS APPROPRIATE, BY EPA AND CARB.
DEALER NUMBER:------------------------------------------DATE:
CHANGE AUTHORITY:
FPS 8262 9/78 FORD MOTOR COMPANY PRINTED IN U.S.A.
PART NUMBER PART NAME
YF1Z-9F715-AA Idle Air Control Valve
YL8Z-9E926-DA Throttle Body
YL8Z-9C915-AA EVAPVM Valve
FOAZ-14N089-A Electronic Engine Control (EEC) Relay
1U7Z-12A650-AXA Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
1U7Z-12A650-AZA Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE
WARRANTY STATUS:
INFORMATION ONLY
OASIS CODES:
607000, 607400, 607500, 607600, 607700, 611000, 611500, 614000, 614500, 614600
3132 - ANNOUNCING: TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 02-11-06 ON OASIS AND QCDEALER.COM
2001-2002 ESCAPE
DRIVEABILITY - INTERMITTENT ENGINE QUIT OR IDLE DIP - NO DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE
CODES (DTCS) PRESENT - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.0L DURATEC ENGINE ONLY: WHEN
NORMAL DIAGNOSTICS CANNOT PINPOINT THE ROOT CAUSE, REFER TO THE TSB
DRIVEABILITY CHECKLIST FOR DETAILS.
Note that the TSB number is different from the one above. I'll try to find out if they changed the procedure, or just the doc number. As far as I know, this is the first time they broadcast anything related to the stalling issue to all Ford techs.
Having said that, I might be experiencing F.O.R.D. problems with my Tribute, or I did something goofy with the power door lock system.
First thing I noticed upon attempting to open the driver's door of my '05 Tribute was that it was locked. I did not recall locking it. On the drive home, the doors locked 'all by themselves'. Believe me, they did. I immediately pushed the unlock position on the armrest, and instantly, all four doors locked themselves. I repeated that pattern about a dozen times, until I figured the car had won. If I manually unlocked the driver's door, it remained unlocked.
On the next drive, fiddling with the locks again, I engaged the window lockout, which disables the passenger windows. With the windows locked out, I then pushed the door unlock switch again. This time, the doors remained unlocked, not going immediately again to the locked position. Now, here it gets even more interesting. As soon as I disengaged the window lockout, the doors locked themselves. So with the window lockout disengaged, the door lock gremlins are active. With the window lockout engaged, the door lock switch is obeyed.
What the heck is going on?
You have a history with Honda, so use your personal experiences to help guide your decision..
Was your Accord a perfect vehicle that never experienced any problems? If so, and the CRV has the options, look, feel, performance, value and dealer service you like, then it sounds like a sure win for the CRV..
If the Tribute in your opinion has better options, look, feel, performance, value and dealer service, then I think a Tribute is in your future.
By far, the Escape/Tribute and CRV are the best in the class..
fyi: I along with hundreds of thousands of others absolutely love our Escape and it has been problem free. (only around 14k miles on it though).
kw
All Ford dealers have access to the OASIS system. The TSB's that I posted came from actual Ford Technicians who work at dealer service depts. themselves, and pulled the information right from it. If you are their first customer with the stalling problem, they may not have seen any information about it, but they are supposed to listen to you.
The only thing you can do, if they refuse to pull the TSB up or play dumb, is report it to Ford Customer Service. Unfortunately, that won't get you very far either. Personally, I would just try another dealer as there are just as many good ones as bad.
If it will help, nhtsa.com has posted TSB 15589 (they have a different numbering system I think) which seems to either be an earlier version, or the same thing. I have not requested a copy from them, so I do not know for sure. It does relate to the stalling problem for sure though. It is the last item under 2002 -> Ford Truck -> Escape -> Engine in their service bulletin database search (by vehicle).
One other thing, if you do stall again remember that you still have full control of the vehicle. You just don't have power assist any more (i.e. the steering and brakes will require some more effort to move). If you have time, you can bump the shift lever back up one notch to neutral, re-start while moving, then bump it back down into drive. Do not pull back on the lever and accidentally slip it into reverse. It will move up one and only one notch without pulling back on it. Try bumping it up then down once at a low speed and you'll see what I mean (just in case, don't try to re-start while the engine is already running).