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Ford Edge Predicted and Actual Reliability
In case I might be repeating myself from addressing this same concern on another board...
The Ford 500/Mtg/FS were rated top in intial quality in their segment. Those newly designed vehicles were built in a newly remodeled flexible factory and were able to acheive that accolade.
During the same time, The Ford Mustang also acheived tops in it's segment...a newly redesigned vehicle built in a newly remodeled plant.
The Ford Fusion/Milan/Zephyr have received other accolated for quality as well...
This isn't 1980's, this isn't 1990's, and because a relative had a Taurus with a bad transmission, doesn't mean that same issue will occur with another Ford vehicle today. Yet the haunts of those decades seem to fester on some buyers today, while turning a blind eye that their beloved Oddysey is one of the vehicles with the highest number of recalls to date.
Vehicles in general are 10 times more reliable than they were 20 years ago. Extended powertrain warranties help ease some of those ghosts as it has helped with Hyundai/Kias... (provided the dealership wishes to honor them as many are finding out not to be the case).
All automakers have a component, that they seem to be weak on. No secret about Honda's transmission and A/C compressors...or Toyotas current transmission woes, and engine sludge issue, MBenz' electrical. Ironically many of these components are also used on other automakers, without any issues...such as Aisin Transmissions built by Toyota's supplier which have given Toyota headaches lately, yet the same component found on some Ford's (500/Fusion) have been trouble free.
Let's not forget where we were, how we got here, but most importantly, whats being done to get there, and how. Lessons have been learned, and applied and everyone has moved on.
The Ford 500/Mtg/FS were rated top in intial quality in their segment. Those newly designed vehicles were built in a newly remodeled flexible factory and were able to acheive that accolade.
During the same time, The Ford Mustang also acheived tops in it's segment...a newly redesigned vehicle built in a newly remodeled plant.
The Ford Fusion/Milan/Zephyr have received other accolated for quality as well...
This isn't 1980's, this isn't 1990's, and because a relative had a Taurus with a bad transmission, doesn't mean that same issue will occur with another Ford vehicle today. Yet the haunts of those decades seem to fester on some buyers today, while turning a blind eye that their beloved Oddysey is one of the vehicles with the highest number of recalls to date.
Vehicles in general are 10 times more reliable than they were 20 years ago. Extended powertrain warranties help ease some of those ghosts as it has helped with Hyundai/Kias... (provided the dealership wishes to honor them as many are finding out not to be the case).
All automakers have a component, that they seem to be weak on. No secret about Honda's transmission and A/C compressors...or Toyotas current transmission woes, and engine sludge issue, MBenz' electrical. Ironically many of these components are also used on other automakers, without any issues...such as Aisin Transmissions built by Toyota's supplier which have given Toyota headaches lately, yet the same component found on some Ford's (500/Fusion) have been trouble free.
Let's not forget where we were, how we got here, but most importantly, whats being done to get there, and how. Lessons have been learned, and applied and everyone has moved on.
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Comments
The 500, Mustang, and Fusion (and hopefully Edge) prove that Ford can be more than competitive in quality, but then you sit in a Crown Vic and see the cheap plastic trim that is a half inch out of line with the next piece, and you realize that it's going to take a while for Ford to outrun the bad old days, and they aren't going to be given any slack along the way.
That's a bad example. If you're sitting in a Crown Vic you're buying a Crown Vic because there is no competitor to that thing. If you're comparing a newer Ford model, like the Fusion or Edge, to an import you're going to have to look hard to find the differences. Sure, personal preference in design, look, and feel will ultimately make your decision for you but Ford needs to get you in the showroom first before that can happen. That is the hard part IMO. The products will speak for themselves.
I'm a Ford fan and know a lot of other Ford fans, and many of them aren't giving Ford another chance on their next car because they got burned on their curernt one. All the great press in the world isn't going to make someone take that kind of a chance. I realize annecdotal examples don't speak to the big picture, but my best friend has an '03 Expedition, and it's an amazing piece of junk. The day he drove it home he noticed that the plastic moulding behind one of his rear tires was melting. The exhaust pipe was mounted incorrectly and it was discharging exhaust straignt into the back of the moulding. He also had a plastic trim piece at the base of the windshield that was flapping in the wind. The metal piece that holds the trim was welded a good 2 inches out of position. To make a long story short, the last few years haven't been any better. The thing rattles and squeaks over every single bump as if it's 20 years old. I showed him the good press the 07 Expedition was getting, and he seemed reasonably interested, but his wife said "Are you insane? These things are total junk; I'd never buy another one." You can't blame people for feeling this way even if Ford has gotten rid of the problems they are complaining about. Ford is going to have to earn people like that over the long haul. The 500 and Fusion are great starts, but Ford is going to have to repeat that kind of quality with their next 20 launches in order for people to start coming around. Here's to hoping they do; I have my eye on that Edge.
Average Joe is going to go in there for his Fusion, Freestyle, Five Hundred, Mustang, Edge, Explorer, Escape, or F Series (all of which have had superbe launches recently save for the Edge) and be pleasantly surprised. That's if Ford can get them in the door first.
Your friend is a good example. He's been burned but the vehicle has changed dramatically and he needs to go look at it. The new Expedition isn't the same as the old one in any way shape or form.
a) there's no radical new technology
b) they took an extra 2 years getting this engine right
c) Ford's quality record of late on new things is stellar
Prove when Ford had a car that was a well built as the Japanese, a Honda or a Toyota. Tell me if Ford is so good why they are taking the Volvos and Mazda parts to build they cars like some type of Freakenstain monster that in the end are mediocre at best. And DJ Powers AGREE. Pick ups.... yea good looking... but look at the INNOVATION that HONDA and NISSAN and TOYOTA are putting forward... Ford is taking even the TOYOTA slogan.. "MOVING FORWARD" when they speak. It use to be "Build Tough" now "Bold Moves" and thats just in the 2000s. Ford change they slogan so many times its makes me think on how deeply confuse Ford really is and why try to trick us again with their TV ads guerillas. NOW they want to go and steal candy from Latin America too. But there "if is not a Toyota, is not a car" thats what the slogan is in many Latin America countries.
About those people that work for Ford, sorry, You work too dam hard to get the reputation you got. Honda and Toyota also build cars in America so dont go begins for a job to Honda or Toyota or Nissan, they are doing very well.
Also, if you want a good (not great) build vehicle from Ford buy a Lincoln or a Mazda. A lot of people got the point but now they know that they loose there too.
:mad: Last time I drove a Ford I got booed by Americans I got the finger. I got so irritated once I stop a guy and ask him why he was giving me the finger... he said it was nothing personal he was just expressing how much he hates the car because it was....well a "FORD".
Not the reaction I get on my HONDA Odyssey!
My neighbor got the Explorer in 7/2006, pressured by her best friend (not us) now is obvious that she more than him, is embarassed about it. Feel sorry for them too.
The 2006 Fusion has a lower defect rate than both the Accord and the Camry. NO recalls. Hardly any TSBs. Very few user reported problems. According to Ford's TGW Global Quality Research System:
Fusion 1,172 TGWs (things gone wrong)
Accord 1,353
Camry 1,193
Not the reaction I get on my HONDA Odyssey!
You mean the Odyssey that's had 27 (that's right, 27) recalls since 1997? And 5 in the last 2 years? Sorry but you picked the wrong poster child for import superiority.
I'm talking about the new products from Ford - the F150, Mustang, Fusion, 500, Edge and their Lincoln/Mercury counterparts that have all been introduced new or significantly updated in the last 3 years. These models are proving extremely reliable - equal to or better than the imports. No argument on some of the older stuff. But it's not 1995 anymore. Even Hyundai has respectable (if not stellar) quality now.
Sorry for the long posting..
If you sat in a Fusion then went and sat in a Edge, the Edge feels like a step down.
Mark.
Sorry, but you touched a nerve with me. For a little background. I grew up in Detroit and the suburbs. I STILL own an 85 Mustang GT that I bought NEW when I was 18. That being said.
I had never owned a "rice burner" until I got the Mustang re painted and wanted to buy a "winter beater" and garage the mustang. I ended up buying a 90' Toyota Celica GT with over 115,000 miles on it ( I thought it was a Ford Probe when I drove buy the dealership). When I got the car which was now 13 years old everything on it WORKED. It was fully loaded and all the backlighting, controls, power windows, sunroof etc. all WORKED! The car drove flawlessly and got over 30mpg and looked nice too. I ended up keeping the Celica and garaged the Mustang. I drove the Celica until it had over 190,000 miles on it and sold it to a friend who is still driving it. I have had two friends who have owned a total of 3 Toyota PU trucks with over 250K miles each on them.
When it came time for me to buy a new car I bought a Lexus. I did plenty of research, and Lexus quality was beyond compare IMHO. And I felt comfortable knowing it was made by the same company that made that Toyota Celica. I test drove the Mercedes and was dissapointed to see that apparently they let Chrysler engineers design it.
I have had the Lexus for over a year now and I plan on giving it to my daughter when she starts driving. The reasons are because: It's SAFE, It's Reliable, it will last her all the way through college, and she can actually drive it and afford the insurance and gas.
BTW on the Lexus owners forum some Lexus users even go so far as to claim that they would only buy a vehicle MADE in JAPAN. They claim to have bought American made Acura's, Honda's and Toyota's, Mazda's etc.. and the quality was not as high as the vehicles actually produced in Japan.
I served in the Army, and you will be hard pressed to find a bigger patriot, but before some car manufacturer is going to get $30K-$40K from me they better give me an outstanding product. When I was a kids we bought a new Ford Country Squire station wagon that fell apart and ended up in the junkyard after 4 years :lemon: . That won't happen again.
I don't mind you bragging about Fords, but when you bag on Toyota's it is obviously coming from a position of ignorance as any personal experience or JD powers or Consumer Reports survey will tell you that Lexus and Toyota absolutely SMOKE ANY and ALL US Auto manufacturer. Of course people like me served to defend your right to free speech. I just wish you'd use it more wisely.
In summary, I just think that the Mazda buyers had higher expectations and when those were not met (by a car made in America) they will voice their frustration. The fact that they paid $3500 more for the same car speaks VOLUMES about the perceived gap in quality between US and Japanese car makers.
IMHO the only way the Big 3 are going to win customers back is by people having positive experiences with their products. Rent a car from Hertz or Enterprize and fall in love with it while on vacation or business. Have your neighbor constantly tell you how much he loves his (Ford, GM, Chrysler) and how he never takes it to the shop.
Is their hope for Detroit?? I hope so, but having grown up there, the mentality of the employees, causes me doubt. As far as any of them are concerned they work for the UAW not Ford or GM etc.. Until both groups can get together and set a goal to please their customers instead of their stockholders or union membership, we have not seen the bottom.
Overall I put 1400 miles on this vehicle in one long weekend. It was pleasant to drive. Would I buy one??? I do know how much they cost, but I would be reluctant to part with more than $21K for a vehicle of this caliber new. Given Ford's reputation for quality (or lack thereof) I would pay more for a Toyota or Used Lexus. I'm the kind that keeps cars for a long time, so quality and mechanical reliability are more important to me than style.
If this car (and the rest of their fleet) proves to be reliable Ford may be on the road to recovery. Let's hope!
OMG I just saw a profile view of the EDGE on the advertisement on the left side of this page.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/crossovers/edge/index.asp?SECTION=PHOTO_GALLERY
The side profile looks IDENTICAL to the Lexus RX330 with the EDGE being perhaps a little squatier. Well, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. How about imitating that Toyota/Lexus quality?
http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/rx330/2005/pictures.html#
Click Here to look at the 2005 Lexus RX330 on Edmunds. Flame me if I'm wrong.
If by that you mean transmission problems, engine sludge, frame cracks, exploding camshafts and folding tailgates - no thanks.
Mark.
You'd get the same answer from every other MFR unless there is a pattern of failures.
Needless to say, we took the secondary roads home and drove much slower than usual.
Thus far both the dealer and Ford have put the burden on us to repair the problem.
Since the car only has 27,000 miles I think this is a Ford problem and they should fix the problem. I am now working with my insurance company. Just isn't right!
Also we had the inside cover closed at the time if that is important.