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CarMax Offer - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

Edmunds.comEdmunds.com Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 10,138
edited June 2014 in Tesla
imageCarMax Offer - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

We took our long-term 2013 Tesla Model S to CarMax. Here's how it went down.

Read the full story here


Comments

  • jeepsrtjeepsrt Member Posts: 88

    Sell it on your own, why let CarMax get the profit.

  • kirkhilles1kirkhilles1 Member Posts: 863

    Noooo.... don't sell it. Keep it. We need more long term data. The Model S is a unique car and is well worth the cost to keep it. Its not like its some new Altima or Accord.

  • rock2155rock2155 Member Posts: 20

    I'd like to see how it holds up for longer but if you need to sell it, maybe try to sell it on your own before taking the first offer... Negotiate...

    Maybe keep it and trade it in for the Model X !

  • skibirdskibird Member Posts: 12

    Does that take into account the $10k in tax credits?

  • cjasiscjasis Member Posts: 274

    Please keep this in the fleet. The problems you've had, Tesla's support and real life experiences are extremely helpful to me (and I suppose others) who are contemplating taking the plunge.

  • gslippygslippy Member Posts: 514

    That's a good offer, but you should keep the car longer. More data is needed.

  • bankerdannybankerdanny Member Posts: 1,021

    Holding on to it for a while longer does have some appeal. You guys have encountered some major problems with this car. They have been promptly dealt with by Tesla at no cost, but they are significant none the less. I would be interested in how the car holds up for another 10k miles.

    If you opt to get rid of it, I would go private party. A question for you though: will you disclose that the drive unit has been replaced twice already and did you tell CarMax? I know this is well documented here, but not all potential buyers will opt to read about it.

  • miata52miata52 Member Posts: 114

    Keep it...

  • greenponygreenpony Chicago, ILMember Posts: 531

    Seems like a fair offer. Sell it, private party it, keep it... doesn't matter to me.

  • tenstringer009tenstringer009 Member Posts: 6

    Keep in mind that if you bought a similarly spec'd Model S today, it'd cost around $120k (not including incentives). I'd guess that you could probably sell this for around $90k on the open market. So, is getting an extra 10% worth the hassle of selling it privately?

  • ddowhyddowhy Member Posts: 1

    keep it!!!!!!! why would you want to sell the world's best car?

  • zimtheinvaderzimtheinvader Member Posts: 580

    "This is about a 23-percent depreciation, and right in line with our fleet average of 22 percent." --- pretty impressive considering they are going to wholesale it rather than retail it.

  • ahightowerahightower TXMember Posts: 539

    You haven't even tried to drive it to New York or Alaska yet! This is a 2-year test for sure.

  • bassracerxbassracerx Member Posts: 188

    you have a week (unless this apreaisal was done monday and you guys are just now getting around to posting this) i would list it on Ebay with a 79k starting bid and a 90k buy it now and see what happens while you guys think on it. I would also try taking it to a regular car dealership that also sells electric cars like a Mercedes dealer just for s and g's

  • arondanielarondaniel Member Posts: 1
    edited June 2014

    As ski bird pointed out, 23% depreciation of 102,600 to 79k does NOT factor in your 7,500 federal tax credit, right?

    It is unclear if anyone at Edmunds claimed the credit but a personal buyer sure will. Therefore his/her effective depreciation is closer to 15.6%

  • mchen4mchen4 Member Posts: 2

    Keep it please!! Reading the long term Tesla reviews are 40% of the reason I come to this site. It is wealth of useful info- how can you be tired of this car already?

  • throwbackthrowback Member Posts: 445

    Sell it privately. You'll definitely do better. There are some Tesla fanatics out there.

  • rmg22rmg22 Member Posts: 1

    KEEP IT KEEP IT

  • darthbimmerdarthbimmer Member Posts: 606
    edited June 2014

    You're "getting that itch to buy something new"? Are you sure it's not "sweating bullets about dealing with this thing when it's out of warranty"? Or just "getting tired of taking it to the dealer for major warranty repairs"?

  • cwerdnacwerdna Member Posts: 1

    Keep it!!! I and probably many others want to see how well it holds up and whether any more major repairs as required, esp. after its warranty ends.

  • keefwivaneffkeefwivaneff Member Posts: 1

    I'd take it round the back and shoot it.
    Wouldn't you feel bad about selling some sucker a LEMON that chews tyres and needs a new drive train every second week?

  • hybrishybris Member Posts: 365

    Keep it or go private party just be sure to be honest in saying that this thing has a repeated major work done on it.

  • shepskishepski Member Posts: 45

    Let me borrow it for six months and I'll contribute DAILY updates.

  • angioman1angioman1 Member Posts: 7

    Keep it for another year at least. You are entering into uncharted territory having bought this new technology soon after it's introduction. It's the most fascinating long term road test among all the car sites and you would do everyone a great service to validate or invalidate the viability of this particular car for the general public. Why would you sell it now before the question has been answered? Does E.M. want you to sell it so that it will no longer be in the public eye?

  • nicadnicad Member Posts: 3

    I agree with Angioman 1 that I think Tesla wants you to sell it and move on. Largest change in car tech in my lifetime and you think it is a good idea to cut the test off after the year and assume people are more interested in knowing how well the new Volvo holds up? Keep the Tesla 5 years and I will keep reading about it.

  • desiccantdesiccant Member Posts: 0

    $79K is quite fair for trade-in. It will retail for about $85K. I have sold to CARmax and the process is smooth and takes an hour or two. I have sold privately several times and each time has been painful with weeks of no-shows, flakes, you name it. CARmax is the best place to SELL a car, not to BUY a car. Time is money. Grab that offer.

  • fordson1fordson1 Unconfirmed Posts: 1,512

    What I would do and what I want you to do are two different things - I want to see if any other stuff will go wrong with the car. If I were you, I think I would sell it - I believe it has some more tricks up its sleeve that I would not want to find out about.

  • rock2155rock2155 Member Posts: 20

    Frankly that was an early production car, I still want to see more about it and how it holds up. In my case, a Nov 2013 build, I have so far almost 10k miles and had only one issue. My pano roof wasn't closing completely. A ranger came the next day and fixed it at work for free in maybe 30min. Only time I went to service was to install the titanium underbody shield. No drivetrain swap or anything. I am pretty sure most of the issues were related to initial early cars. I think the overall fit & finish is much improved and they ironed most early issues. Even rear my tires are wearing evenly and not at an alarming rate. They fixed the rear camber issue with a better bolt I believe... I have much less issues so far than my former 2011 BMW... Love this car!

  • 3ch03ch0 Member Posts: 4

    Keep it! This car more than any other you have needs to be run for longer so you can assess things like battery capacity decline and such.

  • 3ch03ch0 Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2014

    @3ch0 said:
    Keep it! This car more than any other you have needs to be run for longer so you can assess things like battery capacity decline and such.

    Also, this is the only thing I read on this site since the death of Inside Line.

  • 3ch03ch0 Member Posts: 4

    Better yet! Sell it, but buy a second-hand Tesla Roadster. Let's see how their rev1 everything lived up to the real world. Could be a great way to appreciate the changes that led to the Model S .

  • nameirrelevantnameirrelevant Member Posts: 1

    If this problem-laden car were mine, I would get rid of it ASAP, especially while others are willing to pay so much for it. So, I understand if you do.

    However, I am concerned that Tesla is not going to fix their problems. Tesla is heavily praised in the press, including major news magazines and Consumer Reports. A Tesla showroom person told me that replacing the drive unit is no big deal because of how the back of the car is designed (and do not worry about the cost while the car is under warranty). Owners on Tesla's forum write things like, "it is a buggy buggy" -- as though its problems were cute.

    But the problems are real. It shows up in Consumer Reports "Below Average" rating of the reliability of the 2013 Model S. Per their respective 10-Qs, Tesla's warranty costs per car are 10 times Ford's and 9 times GM's, and Tesla's costs are for cars that are on average younger than Ford's and GM's.

    I worry about the trend. All this praise and goodwill towards a car that, if it were not cutting-edge, would be a failure. Will other manufacturers follow: make cutting-edge, unreliable cars and bask in praise and money. What will happen to the industry and consumers?

    I am not sure if it is Edmunds' role, but Tesla should be forced to be honest and fix their problems. Otherwise, the road may become littered with unreliable cars driven by frustrated consumers. Please help fix this problem and keep Tesla honest by continuing this long-term test!

  • marmotkingmarmotking Member Posts: 42

    I'm in the keep it camp. Problems or not, this is a revolutionary car and is always interesting to read about.

  • fordson1fordson1 Unconfirmed Posts: 1,512

    "Per their respective 10-Qs, Tesla's warranty costs per car are 10 times Ford's and 9 times GM's, and Tesla's costs are for cars that are on average younger than Ford's and GM's."

    That is just a stunning statistic. Since out-of-warranty repairs are priced at the retail level, that ratio would probably be even higher once the warranty ends. It would be like owning a poorly-maintained, ten-year-old Range Rover.

  • rock2155rock2155 Member Posts: 20

    @fordson1 said:
    "Per their respective 10-Qs, Tesla's warranty costs per car are 10 times Ford's and 9 times GM's, and Tesla's costs are for cars that are on average younger than Ford's and GM's."

    That is just a stunning statistic. Since out-of-warranty repairs are priced at the retail level, that ratio would probably be even higher once the warranty ends. It would be like owning a poorly-maintained, ten-year-old Range Rover.

    Right but that is probably valid for maybe the first 10k cars delivered, they've progressed a lot and corrected the issues proactively and with great success. I'm in the 25k VIN, at about 9k mi now and didn't have anything major, only a slight issue with my pano roof that was fixed in less than an hour. No drivetrain swap, no battery swap, nothing. Tires are looking good, thread wears evenly... So far I'm not worried at all about keeping my car out f warranty.

    I talked with the mechanic that fixed my pano roof, he said that Tesla was replacing drivetrain quite rapidly to reduce down time for owner at first but once on the dyno back at the factory they were perfectly in-spec and fine. They finally found out that the noise issue was actually a low power wire that they now re-route because it was conducting motor's noise to the frame at speed. A lot of drivetrain has been swapped for nothing to make sure the customer is happy and can leave as soon as possible with his car. They now just move that cable away.

    Battery pack A might be prone to have their contactor fail at some point as some have pointed out, this long term test car had that issue, its solved in revision B that ship with VIN > 2500 or so, and later D packs that now ships with VIN > 20k or so. I haven't seen a single B or D pack fail since.

  • duck87duck87 Member Posts: 649

    @rock2155 said:
    Battery pack A might be prone to have their contactor fail at some point as some have pointed out, this long term test car had that issue, its solved in revision B that ship with VIN > 2500 or so, and later D packs that now ships with VIN > 20k or so. I haven't seen a single B or D pack fail since.

    Rock, you don't have any actual statistics to back up your "first 10 cars" claim, whereas CR does compile warranty data. Is 9K miles supposed to be an achievement? If you want to talk about reliability, come back at 100K miles.

  • rock2155rock2155 Member Posts: 20

    @duck87 said:
    Rock, you don't have any actual statistics to back up your "first 10 cars" claim, whereas CR does compile warranty data. Is 9K miles supposed to be an achievement? If you want to talk about reliability, come back at 100K miles.

    "first 10,000 cars" not 10... What I was trying to say is, simply, that I saw a lot of drivetrain swap and similar issues that this long-term test car had and on other cars made about the same time.

    The two specific issues were noise at speed (60+mph) and battery pack fail were initial issues with A revision battery pack. You can see here that A pack were replaced with VIN numbers greater than 2500 or so. See here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showwiki.php?title=Battery table&redirect=no

    If you crosscheck the info with the thread of owners complaining about having a battery pack failure you can see that, so far, B and newer D pack have that issue resolved, confirmed with a mechanic at the service center. See this: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/27853-That-very-loud-and-painful-clunk

    My point was that, frankly, we can expect the warranty costs to be much higher on earlier cars as issues are being ironed out. I don't claim any record or achievement with my 9k miles other than comparing the number of issues that specific long-term test car had in its first 9k miles compared to mine and a couple owners around me.

    That being said, I hope they keep the car for much longer. I expect the number of issues to go down considerably since most early cars issues are now corrected. I was, like many, concerned with the issues that car had, even before I got my car and I feel much better now knowing that those issues are in the past and that Tesla engineering did their work to address it.

  • teslafanteslafan Member Posts: 10

    One important question: Will these major repairs show up in carfax report?

  • palehearsepalehearse Member Posts: 2
    I would like to see it driven until the wheels fall off. The reason being is that what Tesla says they want to do with the drive train of the vehicle is to make it last a million miles. Unlike other cars, the parts one replaces on this car are outrageously easy.. if expensive, to refurbish. Imagine the cost of rebuilding a high performance Ferrari or Porsche engine.. the cars this competes against for performance.

    I do hope to eventually see an extreme long term ownership of this vehicle to see how it holds up after a decade of driving.
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