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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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Thanks for all the info and advice guys..
The tailgate deflector requires drilling 4 holes. Those hole are clearly marked on the inside of the tailgate.
Simply use a center punch in the center of the raised outline. This will prevent the drill bit from drifting. Debur the 4 holes with a utility knife or file. Paint the inside of the holes.
You can also apply a small amount of silicone to the hole and threads on the bolt.
If you own a drill and can follow very simple instructions you should be able to do this. If you can't do this, you shouldn't even be owning a drill. It doens't get any easier than this.
BTW, the installation took about 10 minutes.
grathke
I don't tow with our MDX so I'm afraid I couldn't answer your questions there.
I like the Montero's styling, 4WD system, and price. And of course its offroading capability is excellent. My main issues with it are the lack of power, "only okay" crash test results, and questions about reliability (and I'm not thrilled about the company's multi-decades long fradulent practices). However, the MDX hasn't been crash-tested yet, and its reliability hasn't been proven. Nevertheless, most expect it to do better.
i.E. Monthly payment ??
Amount Down ??
Residual Value ??
Any help would be appreciated.
THanks,
Here are some pictures from www.acuramdx.org, which were taken from Yahoo's MDX car club:
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=564
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=628
Yes, the tow hitch installation includes electrical connections.
The factory install kit and instructions has detailed steps for locating the electrical connection (already installed at manufacture) which is in the rear storage compartment, attaching an isolation relay box, routing the wire out through the weatherproof grommets, and attaching it to the hitch. (I've got the instructions for the hitch and coolers, if anybody is dying to read them... )
Your dealer is a moron, or you are talking to the sales guys.
I will also add that it is INCORRECT that Acura MUST do the installation to comply with the warranty!
The Moss-Magnussen Act prohibit them from requiring they install it. The CAN demand that the hitch be installed ONLY with the two coolers, and they CAN demand it be done according to the factory instructions. They just can't demand they be the only ones to do it.
$685 is not a bad price (unless your dealership screws it up...) The hitch runs around $200, figuree the coolers are another $200 (I've never priced them), so they want $285 for labor. It is a good 3 hour job.
BTW, when the vehicle first came out, Acura had negelected to properly inform early buyers that the tow specs were chaning, and coolers were now required. The agreed to provide coolers and install free if someone paid for just the hitch. A few posters here took them up on the "offer". Actually, beat them down until they offered.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE LET ANBODY MESS WITH YOUR WIRING, UNLESS THEY ARE INSTALLING ACURA FACTORY ADD-ONS. A tow company will just splice/tap wires until they find something that works. You may regret it later. (I refuse to let anybody mess with Audio/Car Phone stuff for that reason, but then again my standards are a little different.)
Oh, I've not yet towed anything, and probably will use it only for bikes in the summer. I liked the idea of the coolers here in the central valley of CA. (For towing I use a F250 powerstroke diesel.)
Ard
William, it's too bad that the Montero only got an Acceptable for the offset crash test. It's actually a proven (off-road; Dakar Rally) platform and the vehicle itself looks good. Mitsubishi did send along their safety engineers to watch/inspect the crash though, so you can bet that they made notes. Strange, since you'd think that the vehicle was subjected to the same tests during the development stage.
Now, how about spending your long weekend installing the accessories? ;-) WRT the hood deflector, I saw a Silver MDX with it (and the weird front bumper guard thing) and it looks okay. Actually, more than okay. I liked the front end, at least when viewed straight on, with both accessories (though I still don't like how the bumper guard looks from the side)! From a distance (3 car lengths or so) it didn't appear greenish at all, but as it approached, I could see the green tint.
BTW, how was the snow in your area? Did your local news show the footage of the Silver MDX - in the Puget sound area - oversteering in the snow (probably at ~50 km/hr) and wacking its driver's side doors into the front of an 18 wheeler? I caught it on the local news here.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
We're about 5-7; a taller person doesn't have any problem getting in or out of an MDX.
Adding a running board doesn't make one reach over that much more to get at an infant seat in the middle position (which is where ours has been). Sometimes we put one foot on it and it helps provide leverage, as our infant seat (and infant) is on the heavier side.
FYI, our infant seat is in the center position (the safest place in all vehicles). The MDX's width helps a passenger(s) ride comfortably alongside the center infant seat. We're using a Century Avanta SE, and it fits, though with its handle in the mid-position, it can rub a bit on the front seat depending on how far back you have it.
Congratulations on the upcoming baby, and good luck!
Yep, the Montero does look nice, it's very distinctive when one comes up the street, I really admire the no-compromises styling. Hopefully the Mitsubishi engineers will make the necessary structural adjustments, perhaps for a revised IIHS test.
No, I'm afraid I missed that MDX accident. Was it part of that big I-5 accident (14 vehicles), or was it a neighborhood street thing? Was it level or on a hill? Did you notice if it was a base or a Touring (from the presence/absence of a roof rack)? Did it look like stability control could have definitely prevented the accident, or just reduce the severity of the oversteer?
Were you somewhere in the area videotaping, and/or caused the accident? Just kidding ;-)
We got about 5-6 inches in my immediate area. Did not have any problems, though I did notice some spots where the snow had melted enough that a tire or two did not get traction in spots, very slick. However, there was no extensive frolicking in the snow, as our daycare was closed, so my wife stayed home, and I worked from home.
That was mainly in the morning. By late afternoon, the temperatures had warmed up enough that it was one very wet snow mess, and the streets began clearing, and I saw a Beetle zip by with no problems.
For the bolts that fit the channels, are you referring to the "t-bolts", which have a rectangular head, or the "carriage bolts", which have a round head with a square bolt head beneath it?
I did successfully mount the Classic box, which uses so-called "quick mount" clamps that surround the crossbars. All that was required was to drill two new holes in the shell (the clamp assembly makes a great drilling guide) to allow for the wider spacing of the MDX cross bars.
A caveat - since the MDX bars are slightly arched, when tightened down, the floor of the Classic box bends to accommodate them. At that point, I wasn't able to reattach the internal ski mounts. These things are a pain normally; in this case, they wouldn't flex to conform to the no-longer-flat box floor. Perhaps if I had attached the carriers first, then they would have stayed attached as I tighted the fittings.
In another post, you referred to the 663 Vision box. From the illustrations on the Thule website, this has the same quick connect mounts as the Classic. You indicated the Vision could perhaps be mounted directly to bolts in the MDX rails. This would worry me, since the clamping assembly distributes the load across 8 bolts and the surface of the shell between the bolt pairs, rather than four if it were channel mounted, and the plastic shell is not that substantial (at least, on the Classic).
The driver was going WAY too fast, slammed the brakes to avoid an upcoming problem, and the vehicle just seemed to nose down and started skidding / understeering. Not sure if it contacted anything, and then it flipped over several times like a toy.
Amazingly enough, the news said the passengers were fine. Well, physically at least. I question the driver's pre-accident mental capabilities given his/her obviously excessive speed for the conditions, plus the fact that his/her family (including toddlers) were in the vehicle.
FYI, a German auto magazine put the Montero though a very high speed moose test and managed to roll it. I guess they pushed it too hard.
Hah hah, I would've enjoy the snow that your area received, but no I wasn't there :-) I think it may have been the accident on the I-5 (wasn't paying too much attention to the area). It was a flat, but snow covered (probably 4-5") road, multiple lanes and tire tracks in the snow. It was definitely a touring edition MDX with side steps, and possibly with winter tires; when they zoomed in and then ran to the driver to check on his status, the tires looked different, with sharper tread blocks, indicative of winter tires.
In the 20 seconds of footage, the driver was going along just fine and the rear end started sliding to the left. I could see him countersteering (which worked intially) then slamming on the brakes. But by then, the vehicle had rotated about 90 degrees, and it slid into the 18 wheeler with a loud wack. As you know, compacted snow can be very slippery indeed. While the ABS would've kept the vehicle in line, the sudden brake application probably lightened the rear end even more (weight transfer) and exacerbated the problem.
I think stability control could've prevented the spin, but considering that he lost control on a flat surface, I wonder if he would've had enough distance to stop if he didn't spin, even at the low speed that he was going. I also wonder if the MDX's rear tire(s) caught a frozen rut and that contributed to the tail end becoming happy?
Did you use the VTM-4 lock? Or were you not the designated driver at the time? :-) Wheel spin is perfectly normal in the snow. I feel it all of the time in the snow when driving the minivan, even with the AWD. I just let off the gas a little, and drive with caution. With the ML, the caution triangle usually lights up before I can feel the wheels spin.
No, I didn't see that accident with the Jeep Grand Cherokee. I've been busy lately (hence my absence in the ML topic till last night) and only managed to catch the 2 hours of Police Wildest videos on Fox :-) I'm glad to hear that the occupants are okay, but it goes to show you what you shouldn't do. Sometimes it may be better to scrub off whatever speed you safely can and hit the obstacle head-on. Do you recall if it was an untripped rollover (ex. not caused by the tires contacting a curb)?
Unfortunately, as I understand the conditions on I-5 at the time, it was really and deceptively bad, hence the 14-cars accident. Even winter tires obviously weren't enough. BTW, this was the worse snowstorm in the Seattle area since January 1996.
I suspect it was that particular spot on I-5 that you saw, for the news crew to be already there with camera equipment set up. They also like to set up on Queen Anne Hill in Seattle, which has some VERY steep hills and has been a rather interesting example of why not to get overconfident with an SUV (I have seen plenty of footage of SUV's skating around, including the tortuous, thirty-second slow spin into another vehicle).
The wheelspin was momentary as the vehicle hit a "rut" that had mostly a puddle of water in the middle of snow. Quite normal, as you said. VTM-4 lock seems to help (first or second gear, low speeds only).
As far as the Jeep Grand Cherokee accident (and I THINK it was a JGC, the footage was quite fast) -- one couldn't tell from the angle if the rollover was tripped, though I'd imagine so. The height of the vehicle attained while flipping was pretty large, and the rotation rate very fast. I wonder if that type of rollover (angle, rotational speed) actually helps by letting portions like the front of the vehicle skip on the ground without crushing the passenger compartment (it was rotating at an angle, nose down). The vehicle landed right side up, and, as far as I could tell, with not a lot of damage.
I imagine a carrige bolt might work, but I was leary for two reasons: 1- the head of the bolt is not that big, and didn't have alot of surface area on the underside of the channel to hold, and 2- the square portion of the carriage is the only thing keeping it from spinning when you tighten from above. I didn't want it to spin in the channel and abrade the inner edge.
Good point on the curvature of the rack versus the accessories: I've only mounted a ski rack, and since it has two standoffs, the curve doesn't matter. I've only looked at the 663 pod, not fitted or bought one. Perhaps I need to make a few standoffs to match the curvature...
Light snow this weekend- skiing next Friday...
Ard
Thanks for the advise. I've never owned a car with black except a 2nd hand old Mercury when I was in college. I remember how all the stubborn stains in the seats and carpet, a by-product from partying and drinking too much in those 70's college dorm parties. Well, that's another topic.;-) This is too bad because I really like the Granite Green exterior. Any other opinion from others with the ebony interior?
BTW, I wonder how your answer got listed before my question.
Pete
Do you like a spotless car? If so, ebony will drive you nuts.
Also depends where you live- humid citys will be alot cleaner than dry, rural areas.
I chose the beige/saddle for that express reason- might have done the Granite Green if it came in saddle...
Ard
Weird how that post switched- Did you edit it? Perhaps posted, got a response, then the edit reposted it after the response??
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
My Accord also has a tan (cloth) interior, which has been pretty clean its entire life, but that's because I was single and driving solo most of the time. I have friends who had a car with a black interior and now have a minivan with a tan interior and 2 kids, and their opinion was to go for the black interior, no doubts, no hesitation. They basically said the lighter messes, like dust and footprints, can be cleaned up more easily than food, liquids, kid's spit up, stray pen marks, etc., the stuff that tends to stain, be more permanent, and will show up a lot more with the saddle interior (I'm thinking of both the flooring and the leather seats). As much as I want to prevent those kinds of messes, I think I need to be realistic about how the MDX will be used. Their minivan was proof of that. With that in mind, I took another look at my Accord and realized how quickly the passenger side has gotten a lot dirtier just from having a regular, everyday rider (i.e., the wife). I plan on keeping the MDX for awhile, so with the prospect of a child and his/her buddies as future riders and the wear-and-tear they'll bring, I'm thinking the ebony interior would be a better choice after all.
I'll admit to being partly influenced by the fact that the black/saddle MDX I was waiting for disappeared from my dealer's ship list, that he has two black/ebony coming in in a week or so, and I'm #1 on his list. If I had to rethink this from scratch, I'm not sure I'd take a SS or GG over the black to go with the ebony, anyway. As far as the heat issue (black on black, yikes), my dealer pointed out the MDX has an AC system that will cool down the car very quickly. I guess it depends on what you're able to cope with. My friends with the minivan live in Sacramento, which gets hotter than where I live in the general L.A. area, and based on their experience, they're in the market for a dark interior SUV (ML430).
Hope this perspective offers some insight. Good luck on your decision.
1) You claim you bought a 2001 Honda Odyssey, and got rid of it at a $5,000 loss. You cite the complaints against it.
2) You also bought an Acura MDX, despite it being based on the Honda Odyssey, and claim to have found it to have fit and finish problems, and returned it too.
3) And after all that, you say that you "plan on waiting until Acura has 1 year under there [sic] belt."
You say you "consider ourselves to be fairly street smart." Well, if things as bad as you say, wouldn't the smart thing to do is to NOT wait until the MDX's second year, and look towards another SUV or minivan? Given your experiences, why on earth would you wait?
(By the way, I didn't see your username in any of the Odyssey boards; I assumed you had been posting about your Odyssey problems, or at least performing research? There are many folks who can help you with issues.)
May I suggest a Toyota Sienna? It also has numerous complaints against it in the NHTSA database, though not quite as much as the Odyssey (then again, its sales volumes aren't at Odyssey levels). But Toyota's are generally more reliable.
If you want to stay with an SUV, may I suggest an ML320? It has excellent seating (and they seem to fit more people), and its reliability has now improved to somewhere around average. If not, then perhaps a Lexus RX300, which also has good seating? It has a better-than-average reliability record.
Obviously, I am convinced that MDX is a very good vehicle, however I do feel that any criticism of MDX is sometimes (unduely) not tolerated on this forum. MDX is a piece of machinery and like every other machine it has its shortcomings and the room for improvement is always there. Encouraging owners to share their bad experiences will only improve the quality of this forum and in turn improve MDX (if Acura pays any attention to consumer feedback).
Many enthusiasts here are MDX fans already. No one needs to prove to them how great a vehicle MDX is. Discussions about MDX's short comings will help consumers and potential future owners like myself make informed decisions. Personally I dont care if water keeps dripping from MDX's side view mirrors. But there might be some one out there who would appreciate that information.
Seat comfort is a very subjective issue and no amount of discussion will ever convince anyone if a seat is comfortable or not. Road noise (which is very important to me), should perhaps be measured/compared based "x decibels of road noise at 70 mph" in MDX compared to "y decibels of road noise at 70 mph" in some other vehicle; rather than comments like *Road noise in MDX is unbelievable*.
Thankyou all for sharing what you know about the MDX.
I'm sure jjr7 would complain about other problems w/ the ML. It has other tradeoffs ;-)
jjr7:
What would make you think Acura will magically fix all your complaints in the 2nd year? How old is the Odyssey? It has less than average reliability and it is a mature product. It is one of the best minivans though (i.e., doesn't say much about the other competition)-:
I've read most of your problems here and on acuramdx.org (and I don't even have an MDX!!). You should have researched more thoroughly before plunging in. The MDX is the noisier on the highway (compared w/ X5 which is the quietest) according to a recent C&D comparison. A few folks even had similiar gripes about the seat.
E.g. you will note a long-running discussion on the leaking side mirrors. And there has been much discussion here on road noise, and some discussion on seat comfort. I don't think there has been an attempt to hide those issues, they've been out in the open. In fact, when people have reported problems (such as epoe's recent nightmare), those folks have been asked to provide more information, not less.
We have also discussed the quantity of the number of Odyssey issues; in fact, it was I who brought up that Consumer Reports had downgraded the Odyssey's reliability rating to "average" in its recent issue.
And then there's the "thud" issue, which has also been discussed here at length. Obviously, with the quantity of messages here, it may not be easy to find or keep up with all of this information.
Obviously in a forum on vehicle Xyz, there will naturally be bias toward Xyz. However, if you interpreted the tone of my message (difficult to assess in this medium) as "not tolerating" jjr7's comment, I am afraid you are mistaken. First, I was curious about some of the statements made (it's important to get clarification in comments, both pros and cons, as there is a rather strange element on TownHall that likes to fabricate and/or embellish stories to promote some cause). Second, I did (as many here do) suggest alternatives to the MDX.
I will be the first to admit that I have my own personal biases. Though I think that in the end, I'm more fascinated with the process than the actual item to be biased about (I actually don't consider myself a car enthusiast, and I've never really understood the concept of "loving an automobile," plus I have a disdain for "brand loyalty" -- yes my previous vehicle was an Acura, but I have no great love for Acura/Honda, but that's another story). I'd prefer that folks tell both sides of the story and not couch their praises or complaints in emotional fashion, with colorful adjectives. If there's a one-sided praise or complaint made, I'll likely respond to it and try to fill in the other side; again, probably because I enjoy the debate more.
As I've said before, the MDX isn't "god's SUV." There are plenty of good vehicles out there and it depends on one's priorities and what "fits" them. Heck, as I also posted here, my own purchase decision opinion was 55% MDX, 45% 2000 ML320 (and I daresay it would be 50% MDX, 50% 2001 ML320, and based on what is rumored for the 2002 ML320 and MDX, it'd be 40% MDX, 60% ML320). However, since the primary driver is my wife, who was 70% MDX, my opinion wouldn't be tolerated as much ;-)
$400 is not much, but its just a challenge to see whether I can get some $$ off the MSRP. Does anyone out there has similar experience?? If so, was the transaction at the dealership as smooth as the auto broker suggested?
Since I never experienced "ordering" a car and have to wait for 6 months to get the car. The broker mentioned that Acura may raise the MSRP price in mid year, if so, I will have to pay the difference as well. He said that this has nothing to do with him but with Acura. Has anyone heard of such thing before??
Another question, I called the Acura Customer Assistance office to asked about the 2002 production. The rep. told me that typically the 2002 model will roll out in August. I am just wondering since I am schedule to receive my car in late July/early August, will I get a 2002 instead of 2001 model? Do I have to pay the difference as well??
I just wanted to express how I feel about a *general* apparent lack of tolerance for MDX's criticism in this forum. I didn't mean *you* had not tolerance for that. Accept my appologies.
I agree with you "in a forum on vehicle Xyz, there will naturally be bias toward Xyz". Perhaps I am a wishful thinker ...
In 1999 people/stock analysts only had good things to say about dotcoms and sky was the limit. Now they are worth pennies and the same analysts think they are worthless. I just want to make a very informed decision about my purchase. Dont want to discover a year later that 2000 SUV of the year is not what it was proclaimed to be (Better safe than sorry).
While the MDX is presently going for MSRP, that will not be the case in 5 to 6 months as Acura ramps up production. Acura has a hit on their hands and they will do everything possible to increase production and their sales. $400 of off MSRP will be more than doable on your own without a broker in 5 months.
Unless you live in an isolated sales area, you should be able to get on the waiting lists of several dealers in your area. When I was looking at the MDX in January, I was orginally told nothing in stock by several dealers. I didn't get on their waiting list, but yet, a few weeks later most of them called with models coming in and would I be interested in buying one.
If what you are saying is that you can afford to wait 5 months to buy, then don't use a broker. You'll be able to get a good deal on your own and pocket whatever commision he is getting.
I should probably bring up that the "Motor Trend SUV of the year" award is mostly "bought" by the manufacturer. That doesn't negate them being good SUV's, and still doesn't negate the overwhelmingly positive reaction to the MDX in the general automotive press. But, in an funny way, it does parallel your analogy of stock analysts.
Since stock analysts work for the same company that often underwrites the stock being analyzed, and/or has a vested trading interest in it, they will rarely say a bad thing about a stock anymore. This is being pretty well-documented after the dot-com fiasco. Similarly, auto journalist opinions may be "tempered" by the fact that an auto company may not be as "generous" to them in the future with advertising in their publication, or helpful in securing future road tests for them. Nevertheless, auto journalists still seem to do fairly well.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97002.htm
The MDX has not been crash-tested yet, though most expect it to do well because of its basis on the Odyssey. For those who want some more certain info, the BMW X5, MB M-class, and Lexus RX300 have all done much better on the (more real-world) IIHS crash test.
Its relatively rougher ride than the MDX and more controversial styling would still be significant issues to me, but the addition of side curtain airbags, some ergonomic improvements, and xenons as a non-overpriced option (as opposed to over $1k before dealer labor as it is now) are major pluses building on the ML320's already excellent qualities. Of course, we need final word on 2002 versions of these vehicles to be sure.
Any vehicle purchase is made at a "point in time," based on requirements at that time, and what's available at the time. That's why I think Acura had better keep on its toes. The competition in this segment is fierce, and price cuts in competing vehicles (most notably the RX300), and equipment upgrades (HID, stability control) can easily erode Acura's hot-selling model if they're not careful.
Transpower
Please feel free to spend your money anyway you want. Good luck.
TC
Now the question is that whether paying MSRP plus have to wait for 5 month is a foolish thing or not. What is everyone's wait time before receiving their new car?
Depends what you mean by "ripped off"...
You can't get the MDX for much below MSRP if at all right now. Some folks paid over MSRP or were forced to take accessories as "part of the sale" to get the MDX. It's basic economics. There isn't enough of a supply and lots of demand. If you want it *now*, that's what you're stuck w/. If you can wait and supply meets demand, you will be able to get some discounts. If you go outside your area and find a dealer in another state w/ some on the lot, you may get a discount.
It'd not just the MDX. The MB M-Class and C-Class had/have the same problems in their first year or two. The only difference is that MB had enough class to make their dealers not gouge customers by charging over MSRP or tacking on options (though some of them did it w/ "used" cars). The M-Class was stuck at MSRP for two years w/ waiting lists of 9 months at times (longer overseas). The C still has a waiting list (it's new for 2001 like the MDX).
Put another way: if you had one right now and were enjoying it instead of waiting another year for the prices to drop, how much would that be worth to you? Can you quantify that? :-)
Bottom line is that everyone should take a long test drive and make their own decision but don't make a global criticism about things that are this subjective.
On the other hand, don't get me started about the water drip...this definitely needs to be fixed!
Rick
(Before I totally laud MB, though, the quality of that first year and a half of production was not exactly laudable, to put it mildly. Hopefully first-year MDX problems won't be THAT bad, but we'll see. At least it seems that MB has made significant improvements. And hopefully they made enough restitution with 98 and early 99 buyers, as I still see gripes now and then.)
There's another angle to it though -- the M-class doesn't carry as large a dealer profit as does, say, a Lexus RX300 did until recently. As you know, RX buyers used to be thrilled at getting a thousand off MSRP, when the actual dealer profit was quite obscene. That gave Lexus dealers a lot of room to maneuver and pretend to be giving "great discounts," until oversupply and competition began forcing discounts to $1k to $1.5k above invoice. At that point, it became more of a "deal" if one chooses to view it that way.
Of course, that also means the poor person who thought they had a great deal at $1.5k-$2k off of a 2000 RX has taken it in the shorts, when the 2001 model can be bought at about the same price but adds a somewhat more responsive suspension, xenons as as option, Brake Assist, and VSC. It's not as severe to earlier RX buyers because the vehicle's MSRP was lower then; Lexus had aggressively raised the price as the model became popular.
That of course should factor into MDX buyer decisions. If the economy tanks more rapidly than expected, if Lexus continues discounting (though there has been a price increase recently, oddly enough), and as competition increases, there'll be some discounts in some regions of the country (that's the other factors would-be buyers ignore -- it's highly geographic).
On the other hand, if jumping through hoops to save $400 isn't justified, maybe one should just pick from what's out there.
From a physical standpoint, I think it's at least 30 minutes.
An example I can give was the VW Passat 4motion station wagon we test drove before buying the MDX. The dealership was great, very low-key salesperson, gave us the keys and told us to take our time. We asked him when he expected the vehicle back, and he said "certainly by tomorrow," ha. (No, I'm not so simple-minded as to expect a dealer of vehicle Xyz who has only one or two demos and a three month waiting list to offer this generously!)
Anyway, the vehicle felt fine for about 20-30 minutes, though the seats were FIRM. But after the 30 minute point, my wife definitely noticed that her shoulders felt funny, as the width of the seat and the bolstering were pinching her blades, leaving her, by the 45th minute, with a pain in her back. That was that, and the Passat 4Motion Wagon was ruled out. (I still think it's a great vehicle, it had a nice European driving feel to it, and I remember thoughtful touches like the doors opening extra wide ... though I remember typical Euro/VW ergonomic misses too, like where the heck do you put your stuff? Anyway the Subaru H6 VDC is better but wasn't available at the time of our test drive.)
Similarly, our highly subjective assessment of our first ML320 drive was that the ride was harsh. Subjective in that one person's soft ride is another's hop in a Wrangler. (Heck, I remember a poster on the RX300 board who made his 2001 RX's ride sound like he was driving over train tracks.) We test drove another one a few weeks later to make sure, and yep, it was still harsh to us, and it became a factor (among others) in our final decision (whereas we found the MDX's ride to be comparatively smoother and closer to the RX than the ML; but again, you'll find folks who don't view it that way).
Also, if your ride is harsh, test the tire pressure (bring along a gauge, and check the tire pressure against the recommended pressure on the door). You'd be amazed how many dealerships let you test the vehicle with incorrect pressure, and that can dramatically alter the way the vehicle feels.
You can take the opinions of posters here, and I encourage everyone to do their homework, but ultimately the vehicle must "fit" you and your expectations. If you don't think it will, don't get it, it's too expensive a decision to make a mistake on.
That'll partially determine if $400 is a good deal or not. Then it's up to you whether or not it's worth it.
Also, just because you mentioned "auto broker," this question popped in my mind: is your deal for a U.S. market (full U.S. warranty) MDX? Just checking because some places are selling Canadian MDX's, and Acura/Honda has set it up so that you the Canadian warranty is useless in the U.S. Thus such dealers/brokers have to give you a third-party warranty.
I agree about the 98/99 problems. I've slammed MB for that...and suggested that the car alarm designers should be caned for screwing up the tow sensor and not getting a fix for a year ;-)
MB has figured out releasing something buggy is a bad idea (although they have in the past w/ the 190 but it was never as popular as the ML). I've been monitoring the new C and it only has one problem that I'd consider serious, affecting only the first 59K owners.
The MDX seems ok from what I've read so far unless you seriously thought you could use it to tow anything significant; basing it on the Odyssey probably helped a lot to keep problems minimal (although you have the quirks that Odyssey owners have). The off-center seat probably would have annoyed me eventually, but I'll never know. Just goes to show folks should do as many test drives as needed to be certain it fits and is not annoying.
The MB margin is only 7% (w/ a rumored 3% holdback) and a $2K bonus to dealers if MB can't clear last year's model off the lot (two salesmen I know said their income has been cut in *half* since MB instituted the new 7% no-haggle policy). Not sure what the margin is on the RX but it sounds like 20% w/ some extra kickback. Any idea what the margin is on an MDX (not that it would be useful for more than curiosity reasons at this point ;-)?
An RX Premium Pkg + heated seats has a 13.588% spread, though I think prices have changed recently (I seem to recall it being higher).
Holdback for both is alleged to be 2% of base MSRP.
Compare this with the supposed 3% of Total MSRP holdback of MB dealers, and the 7.525% spread on an M1+M2+heated+Bose+sunroof ML320. So yes, MB dealerships have less room to maneuver than Lexus, and, once supply catches up, Acura dealerships.
We checked out both ML and Lexus, but we like the 3 row seating option in the MDX. Yes, ML has it but its optional,and we are not willing to pay more $$. With the slower economy, we want to be conservative. Wife is expecting in early August, so this car is a "gift" for her. Regardless, 5-6 months wait is ok for us. That is why I took the advantage of $400 off from the broker. I have to pick up my car from the dealership just like another person that bought the car from that dealer. I don't know why I would get a Canadian warranty??
According to TC, he mentioned that initially his dealers told him that its a 3 month wait, then later called him to tell him its available for much shorter time. Is this a tactic by the dealers to fish out the serious buyers?? This is all new to me as I am used to pick out the car from the lot and never have to order one before??
Were they new w/ 6mi on the odo? I know there were lots of stories about dealers who sold "demos" over MSRP.
If you're ever in the market for a MB again, look up Curt Rich at Star Motors.