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Acura MDX (pre-2007)
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Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Check out post #293 for installing the roof rack yourself. I plan to when/if I ever get my MDX.
The base model will also give you heated seats, not just the Touring Package. Maybe you'd use it one freak weather day a year in Southern Florida ;-)
While it is possible that the MDX is manufactured to tighter tolerances, the MDX is also a more complex vehicle than the Odyssey.
One disturbing item about the Canadian plant is that it seems to be taking more than a year to resolve initial problems. That's not usually something associated with Toyota/Honda Japanese-transplanted manufacturing standards (as compared to, say, the U.S.-built ML, where, to customers' and MB's chagrin, problems took 2-3 years to resolve). Fortunately for MDX owners, lessons eventually learned from the Odyssey should benefit MDX manufacturing.
It'll be interesting to see how well Honda's Alabama plant does when it goes into operation.
For future X5 buyers, hopefully BMW can resolve their new plant issues quicker than MB did for the ML.
In any event, if I had a choice I would have bought the MDX in the second model year, but a first model year was fairly acceptable. If my next SUV is the 2nd-generation ML, I wouldn't dare touch it in its first year, and probably not in the second either (despite the fact that the plant should be much more experienced by then).
There's another significant first-year model issue that gets ignored when folks focus on quality control: OEM and third-party support. This is especially true on a vehicle that's not being made in quantities over 100k in its first year (like the MDX). The dealerships and their service departments are less familiar with the vehicle and may have some problems taking care of it. And then third-parties don't yet have accessories ready (e.g. roof racks, deflectors, etc.).
1. Remove two roof moldings from roof (Towel and screwdriver, less than 10 mins)
2. Cut moldings to certain dimensions described in the instruction, total 8 cuts (a saw which can saw metal, 40 mins) - my saw was not that very efficient, otherwise only 10 minutes work
3. Put cut roof moldings back to the roof (no tool, 2 mins)
4. Put roof racks on the the roof to fit in the studs and screw the screwbolts (8) in. The screwdriver is a special one with a kinda of 6 face head. I am luck I have one. But the studs are too close inwards, I paid more efforts to screw the bolts in (special screwdriver, 20 mins)
5. Put the four cover on (no tool, 5 mins)
I am not a handy man at all, but I love "DIY". If you are more experienced, sure you are gonna spend less time than I did. The above is just for your info and good luck
This makes me think that the problems with the Odyssey may not necessarily only be because of manufacturing techniques and supplier issues (Honda has been in the US making Accords for a while now, unlike MB when they first ventured into the US), but also because of the lower quality of parts. I agree that the MDX may fair better since it is supposed to be an Acura, and hence subjected to higher quality standards.
The BMW SC plant has been well established since it has been cranking out BMW Z3s for a while now. When it first opened, I remember quite a few teething problems as well. Even still, the X5 suffers from some surprisingly serious problems that have taken a while to resolve. Problems that could leave one stranded or in a dangerous situation (ex. the 3.0i X5 could stall suddenly w/o warning while turning in the middle of an intersection - problem took months to solve completely since the first fix didn't work and could exacerbate the situation, producing cabin vibration while idling. Another guy had his front suspension arm sheer off completely). The ML, despite its troubles, was highly unlikely to suddenly die by the side of the road. There were always signs (mainly the early fuel sending unit problems) and most owners brought it in before it became terminal.
BTW, have your parents-in-law done anything about that (let's just say) subpar audio system in their van? FWIW, one person has reported that extra thick underbody rustproofing/sound dampening seems to quieten the interior a bit. Another more effective method (albeit also more expensive) would be to dynamat some of the interior. Is their van an LX or EX?
Drew
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Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
P.S. Are you telling me you're still waiting for that hood deflector? Didn't someone's MDX at acurmdx.org have a hood deflector? Or was that just a hood bra?
I am contemplating the reverse proceedure of removing the roof rack from a Touring Package. My dealer isn't sure what all is involved. I do know I'll have to replace the roof molding, but I am concerned if the screw holes will be sealed properly.
Actually, I am not too sure you can fully correlate quality of the EL's manufacturing to conclude that the Odyssey suffers from other ills not directly related to the process. I'm not too familiar with the EL, though. First, how many EL units do they make, and how quickly did the process have to ramp up? Did it have the phonomenal demand for the Odyssey that caught Honda way back in production? Does the plant make anything else, especially something more complex than an EL (like an Odyssey)?
I'm sure you are well aware that manufacturing techniques often suffer in quality as production levels exceed various points, especially if it's done very quickly and in response to higher-than-anticipated demand. Then again, the same can be said for manufacturing personnel! If this is a serious problem at the Canadian plant, hopefully Acura doesn't try to ramp up production of the MDX too fast, for the sake of future MDX buyers. However, lack of production capacity and the hot sales of the Odyssey will probably keep MDX supplies low even as the 'Bama plant opens.
So I still think that much of the issues are specific to the Canadian plant. However, I would allow that some issues are related to design, and how it is executed in the manufacturing process. Honda simply does not have a lot of experience with designing and manufacturing larger vehicles, especially compared with Toyota and MB.
My in-laws are on the opposite side of a spectrum that has audiophiles on the other end, so I don't even think they have a judgement on the stereo system.
BTW, speaking of in-laws and MB quality, I got another rude reminder about the ML's controversial styling over the holidays. Mother-in-law admires MDX sitting in her garage, and yet again voices opinion that she's glad we bought it (in her opinion, she thinks the MDX is good-looking), and that she's really glad we didn't buy "that other, ugly SUV" we were looking at.
That's pretty funny. I would have thought she'd be obsessed w/ MB (Asian thing from my observations as an Asian :-)
That's actually what has irritated me most about my ML ownership so far...not even the one squeak and one rattle that have come and gone by themselves. We had to give a ride to one of my mother-in-law's friends from a gathering. About 10-15min before we left, a sister-in-law repeated to this person (and everyone else because she's LOUD) "you get to ride in a Benzzzzzz" about 10 times. Then there are the relatives and coworkers who assume you're rich because you drive a Mercedes, but then don't make a comment when someone they know gets a Volvo XC or Saab wagon or Audi TT or Acura MDX which are all in the same ballpark of price. No use trying to explain that MB considers it and the C their low end and they're doing a good job of attracting non-MB buyers w/ the ML...sometimes I wish I could debadge the entire thing. Still haven't gotten keyed because it's a MB yet, but I wouldn't be able to see w/ all the dirt on it
You also asked "What is a GG Model?" As a means of shorthand, many MDX owners and soon-to-be-owners use abbreviations to describe the color and options on the MDX. GG stands for the color Granite Green Metallic, whereas SS stands for Starlight Silver. You will commonly see the word "Base" or "Touring" after the color or color initials. "Base" translates into the MDX without the Touring Package. And finally, the abbreviation "Nav" is used to describe an MDX with the optional Navigation System. Hence, a GG Touring/Nav is a Granite Green Metallic MDX with the Touring Package and the Navigation System. Speaking of which, I've posted several photos of my GG Touring/Nav in the "Gallery" at the acuramdx web site above. You can find it under the thread entitled "Fully-loaded GG Touring/Nav."
In my case, I did put a deposit down without a test drive, but this was months before the MDX was released. We were in no rush to buy a vehicle; we were just aiming to buy one when we had a baby around the time of the MDX's then-expected release date. Our deposit was fully refundable, in writing, and the actual purchase contingent on our test drive and acceptance of the vehicle.
But if the dealer has a half-dozen unsold MDX's on the lot, it's arrogant to not permit test drives. Sometimes a salesperson is just lazy, using that as an excuse if he or she has decided that you may not be an easy sale. I would suggest calling the dealer's general manager and complaining, and also posting the name of the dealership here.
It took some sleuthing to find the tire cables. Security Chain Co ("SCC") make them, but none of their printed catalogs have the correct cross references. I actually found it on their website.
The product is their "Super Z LT" and the model is "ZT729". It is a cable, not a chain. It also has a zig zag pattern, not a ladder pattern. (Who cares, we'll never, ever, need to use them!) They are supposed to be better than the older ladder style. Marketed "for pickups and Suvs". Tensioner is included.
Here's the best part: Pep Boys, $79.99 (Perhaps you even picked up a box of these and never found the size listed.) Also sold by NAPA (but they wanted $94).
Just an observation, but do you see more 4x4s off the road than chained-up vehicles? On my way up US 50 last week I'd swear that's the case. I think folks forget that 4x4s go well in the snow, but have the same stopping power as ANY other vehicle. (of course ABS has an impact) I feel I have much more latitude driving uphill in the snow/ice than down. Going down, gravity is your enemy.
Ard
PS Front Hood Air Deflectors: Just heard a few FINALLY shipped. Based on a few discussions with corporate, Acura NEVER released these. There was a quality problem (perhaps they didn't fit?) and nobody ever received any. (Well, not true: they had one to take a picture and put in the brochure...) So, when I get mine I'll post the install "blow-by-blow"
PPS msu79gt82: There are no added holes for the roof rack, so if you remove it, there are no holes to fill or seal....a little surprised the dealership is challenged. The only thing you need is replacement moldings to cover up the channels.
One somewhat ugly possibility is that a higher-end version of a product can be subjected to additional and more stringent quality checks than the lower-end product. That used to be a staple of old-fashioned, low-quality manufacturing, since additional checks and remanufacture are relatively costly. The additional cost was passed on to the consumer. This has been around since folks like Henry Ford came up with the assembly line process and started time and motion studies.
Despite all our theoretical observations, only time will tell.
I would not be usuing the vehicle for off road stuff. Also any inf. on Canada (Vancouver)buying opportunties would much appreciated!
The MDX has not been crash-tested yet, but it is based on the Odyssey and test results usually stay in the famiily, so that should bode well (Odyssey does very well). Acura claims it will earn high scores. Meanwhile, the QX4 has not fared well:
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97002.htm
You should try to see if other dealers in your area are charging straight MSRP without forcing inflated accessories. You'll probably still have to wait. If you give your general location, someone might be able to help you.
If you don't want to check in your area or immediately beyond, you might want to consider an RX300, assuming it fits your needs, as there are very good deals on it right now. Or a Mercedes ML320, which is also a very good choice.
If you have to get a QX4, you may want to look at a fully-loaded Pathfinder since there are relatively few differences between them, while the Pathfinder is significantly cheaper.
Reliability scores can only be computed if there is historical data to base the score on. Since the MDX just came out, the score will be nilch compared to the QX4 which has a history.
You then say that the quality of the MDX is very good, implying that it will be reliable. In my personal opinion I agree it is a quality vehicle. But quality is not an accurate predictor of reliablity. Example: Let's say you look at a vehicle, fit and finish is excellent, leather is luxurious, wood trim is top grade, engine is built with good materials. This would be a "quality" vehicle. But if the various systems and materials are not designed to work well together in a given application, then the reliabilty of the overall product will be questionable and the overall product might not function even though the individual parts are of high quality.
Now, I'm not saying that the MDX won't be reliable. I bet it will be. But neither you nor I is qualified to say so because there isn't enough historical data to prove it. Time will be the judge.
TC
There are 8 screw-studs (not screw holes) on the roof (track) under the roof moldings, 2 pairs each side. The 8 screw-bold (with holes) are used to screw tight the roof rack with the roof.
If you want to uninstall the roof rack, besides the two original roof moldings (full length) are needed you also need to have the special screwdrive tool (for unscrewing the bolts) as well as 4 more special clips which are used to clip the molding with the roof tracks. There are 8 clips under the original moldings, 4 of them are taken out when installing roof racks (leave the rest 4 on each end of the molding position.
Let me know if you have more to ask.
The QX4 has scored very well on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings. The MDX is too new to have any reliability ratings. However, the MDX is based on the Odyssey, which has only scored "average" in Consumer Reports' ratings. It is also made at the same plant as the Odyssey. There have been a number of messages discussing what the Odyssey relationship means for the MDX's reliability, which I won't repeat here.
I personally think the first model year will be "average" based on the number of, thankfully, mostly minor problems reported here and on other message boards by MDX owners. Remember that reliability is not based on your personal experience but on those of many owners.
However, since the QX4's reliabilty scores are so good, and because I think the first-year MDX will be average and possibly above average, I stand by my opinion that the QX4 will PROBABLY have a higher reliability score than the MDX. There is certainly no logical reason to think the MDX can score better than the QX4 (which even beats the RX300 in reliability scores).
Time will tell.
I called all Acura dealers in Bay Area (and the rest of Nor Cal as well) about 2 weeks ago. Out of 15 dealers, only 3 were willing to sell at MSRP without requiring any add-on accessories. All three need $1,000 deposit to place you on the waiting list. The only catch, the waiting time that I was quoted was very long, ranging from 5 to 11 months.
The specifics are as follows:
Hopkins Acura - Redwood City - 11 months wait,
Acura of Modesto - Modesto - 5 months wait,
Prestige Acura - Santa Rosa - 8 months wait.
The remaining 12 dealerships wanted $2,000 over MSRP and/or required add-on accessories (at overinflated prices) in the range of $2,000 to $4,500. There were also some dealerships that created an "auction" situation by offering the MDX to the highest bidder.
I think I will wait for couple months until the hype dies down.
Good luck.
Thanks in advance!
ardvarkus: Your observation about more 4x4's sliding off the road than 2-by's most likely would apply more to Hwy 50 than Hwy 80 due to the much larger number of curves and up- and down-grades. The few miles of chain-control area on Hwy 80 are, for the most part, pretty straight. Even though it was snowing like hell when I went through the chain-control portion of 80 late last Thursday morning, the only people I noticed along the side of the road appeared to be tourists as they were standing around taking pictures of the snow. Most of the people I've seen get in trouble on both 50 and 80 over the past 35 winters I've been making the trek to Reno and Tahoe are the "cowboys" who have that "I've-got-to-go-faster-than-anyone-else" mentality. (God bless 'em; I have an uncle who owns a fender and body shop!)
BTW, thanks for the skinny on the cable chains. The Pep Boys store in San Jose is one of the few places I didn't bother calling. I printed out your earlier post and will take it to the store with me tomorrow when I'm in San Jose on other business.
If anyone has any or knows of a dealer that has one, Please let me know.
dbastian@yahoo.com
i also opted for the side steps,wood shift knob,& dash,fender flares,rear mud guards,rear wind deflector,& sun roof deflector. i think that was it while not looking at the paper work right now. also i have seen your photos on the other sight,very impressive to say the least. thanks again for responding.
Didn't even have to show them to the Cal Trans guy.
In 15 years of driving the Sierra's I've only seen "4x4 WITH chains required" once, and this was on SR89 between Truckee and Tahoe City. As others have mentioned, caltrans will usually shut the road down before then, especially on 50/80.
Bilmat- I'd agree that 50 is trickier, with turns, grades, cross streets, etc.
BTW, anybody get a recent "wait time" from Solano Acura in Fairfield? Not too far from the Bay Area.
Ard
A few came in last week, and a bunch more just arrived, so Acura is finally shipping them in some numbers.
Ard
If you don't get any positive responses from within this group, you might consider doing web searches on various cities/states and Acura dealers. For example, go to yahoo.com, and search on "Indiana Acura". This should give you a list of some Acura dealers in Indiana that have their own website. Most Acura dealers should have their own website, and that website should have an enquiry tool and/or an email address listed. That was how I contacted the Acura dealer I used for my MDX purchase.
By the way, there seems to be a trend that the dealers in the smaller cities/towns are likely to give you the best deal (ie. MSRP pricing, no required accessories, fair pricing on accessories, $500 refundable deposit, etc). However, Phoenix and Houston areas seem to be providing fair deals, and those aren't exactly small towns!
It's been posted by other people before (such as ardvarkus), but I'll type it again. Strongly consider making a trip outside the area! Perform an internet search for some other Acura dealers outside of the bay area. Maybe consider an early spring vacation to Arizona? (MDX meets 50-state emissions.) Last I saw, all 3 Acura dealers in Arizona charge MSRP, require no accessories to be purchased, and require only a $500 fully refundable deposit. They all have websites on the net. Beaudry Motors in Tucson lists (on their "Specials" page) some pricing details on an MDX purchase, including their promise of keeping the MDX at MSRP with no unwanted accessories, add fees, or packages.
They don't have anything available now, but they do have an available black/black touring for March delivery. Sorry, no nav on that. There is also a beige touring with nav.
All: For anyone who might consider a trip to Arizona (or who currently live in Arizona), here is a list of MDX's I received from Tracy at Beaudry Motors in Tucson for delivery in March:
2 silver base models
mesa beige base
mesa beige base nav.
mesa beige touring
black on black touring
mesa beige touring nav.
I believe these are all still available. Post your email address if you want more info. (I'm probably already providing too much solicitation as it is!)
- Rob
The extra width of the MDX is noticeable in our garage, but it doesn't seem to affect us at all on the road or in typical parking lots. There is a little less slop allowed when parking it in our garage!
Wheel Locks - Free
Rear Mud Flaps - Free
Front Air Deflector - Free
Cargo Cover - Free
Luggage/Cargo Net - Free
Separation Net - Free
Folks keep hearing 1995 blue sky mark-up and think "only one k over, what a deal..."
Jus' my opinion.
Ard