Lexus RX 300

ravl · May 2002

I think I saw a Lexus commercial touting the fact all Lexus now have ML stereo systems. It shows a silver LS430 pulling into a garage and the voice over talks about the system and how it's available in all their vehicles. It might be an upgrade, though....

stevern · May 2002

Hi all...As I had posted before, I believe there will be an update on the RX300 since production is moving from Japan to Canada for the upcoming model year. However, when I was at the New York Auto Show, I inquired about any changes on the RX. The Lexus rep told me that they were going to concentrate on the launch of the GX before any changes were made to the RX. I guess that kinda makes sense. Although, I have noticed that they moved up the intro of the GX from January to November. So who knows?!? Anyway, I am eagerly anticipating a change on the RX sooner than later, since my 00 RX lease is up in January....Just my 2 cents.......Steve

raddboy41 · May 2002

Well, with the arrival of our new baby girl we've decided to trade in our RX300 for (drum roll please!).......Toyota Sequoia!! In the RX, there is not enough room for an adult to sit between two car seats in the back. You can do this in the Sequoia AND you get the 3rd row seat! Although based on the Tundra frame, Toyota does a great job of making the ride comfortable and I'm not disappointed AT ALL in trading the RX for the Sequoia. Don't get me wrong, the RX was perfect for us when we had only one child but we simply needed more space with two. I've loved my time with the RX300 and continue to drive my ES300. It's been nice conversing with you folks.

rxlax · May 2002

We just had our 2nd child, and I am in a tough spot on whether to Sell my RX(2000 w\ 15K) for something with a third seat. My wife fits fine in the back with the 2 car seats, The problem is when we want to go somewhere with more than 1 other person which will not be very often. There will be trade offs with the Ride, Gas Mileage, Comfort (The wife is extremely comfortable in the RX) and ofcourse $$. What is the general consensus out there for the comfort level of the RX for 4 ???
I don't want to go much bigger so my choices are limited to the MDX, which I will not pay the premium for, The Honda Pilot which will be a downgrade in comfort and luxury and will probably be a premium for, Wait for the GX which will be out of my $$ range. I don't want any of the American Trucks
I think the RX will be a keeper for at least 3 more years, I not a buy and sell type of guy. I'll wait till the '03 RX and GX get the kinks out in '05. Besides, It seems in the 3rd Model Year the Japanese add on some nice goodies ('01 vs '00)

daveghh · May 2002

You should consider the more fuel efficient, and far less polluter, MDX or Pilot (both 3 row seaters!). The Sequoia is on the 10 worse polluter list and it drives like a truck!

The MDX and Pilot are large, look cool, and should drive more like a sedan and you still get the utility of a Sequoia. I personally wouldn't want 15 mpg.

raddboy41 · May 2002

Well, as pointed out in my original message (and has been stated in so many reviews) the Sequoia has a wonderfully smooth compliant ride..for being on a truck frame. That being said, it's not as smooth riding as the RX, but what is? The MDX and Pilot don't come close to the interior space of the Sequoia so you're looking at apples and oranges. My commute to work is 10 miles (usually on my motorcycle) and our primary use of the Sequoia will be around town but we HAD to have one large enough for my wife and I, two kids, mother-in-law (she's actually quite wonderful), and all of our gear to take on trips several times a year. 15 MPG is just fine with me considering the low mileage this vehicle will see and with me commuting on my catalyzer equipped motorcycle(50 MPG) everyday I imagine that my family will be emitting fewer pollutants than yours.

jeffmust2 · May 2002

Minivan.

gsenthil · May 2002

T&C AWD..

raddboy41 · May 2002

See, I'm going to miss both of you guys! You've always brought reason to this board! Seriously, I've enjoyed your messages immensely! I wanted to go the Sienna route, but (She who must be obeyed) wifey just hates minivans. Since SHE was the one who just pushed out a 8lb. 14 oz. little girl......SHE WON! :^) You guys take it easy and keep Willard honest. :^)

rlui1 · May 2002

What kind of stereo is in the 2002 RX?

daveghh · May 2002

I understand what you are saying about the entire size difference between the vahicles.

As far as emissions go http://www.autoseattle.com/images/Sport_trk.jpg

If I drove 15,000 miles in a MDX, you could only drive about 3,000 miles in the Sequoia (best case scenerios using the emitants) Click on the rating to see the actual pollutants it emits.

mooretorque · May 2002

Comfort for 4? Come with me now, to the days of yesteryear when I sold our ES300 in 1998 and bought an AWD RX in June of that year. My wife was tired of bending over to put boyo #2 in his car seat and the RX was/is the perfect height. Boyo #1 was 4 at the time.

Fast forward to now: boyo #1 is almost 8, me fine young droog (nod to Clockwork Orange) #2 is 5, and they and she still love the RX. 45k miles, no sludge, tracking straight, true and quiet on Michelin CrossTerrains and lifetime mileage of 17.2 mpg. When we did have two car seats (as opposed to one plus a booster), I could still sit between the two (slightly above average sized male) without difficulty.

So we're cool with the RX for another two or three years, then maybe the GX.......

raddboy, how many pollutants your family emits will be greatly dependent on your diet.....

im_brentwood · May 2002

I know this has been rehashed to Death.. but...

One of our RXs (A company car) has been in my care for the past few days. An 00 AWD with 37K miles. When I got my mitts on it the "Integrity" tires (Such a liberal use of the word, don't you think? haha) were shot.

Oddly, was the first AWD I remmber seeing with them...

Anyhoo, I replaced them with a set of Pirelli Scorpion ATs.

WOW! Not the quietest, or softest riding, although in the RX it would take the aforementioned Mud-Terrain T/As to make it truly noisy. But the steering response and stability are great. I'll post more info if I get a chance to drive on them in the rain.

But they certainly respond like Pirellis. I bought them locally.. IIRC it was like $510 or so installed for all 4, and that was retail (I am also a car dealer but this was not a dealership vehicle..ergo using the tax cert is a no-no)

Bill

gsenthil · May 2002

Lets not start with how much each SUV emits. Auto emissions are just one of the many ways. Do you use CFLs? How much electricity do you use? Canned food? Disposable napkins/tissues? Recycling?

A person could ride a bike or walk and still be "ungreen" while another driving a SUV "may" be green.

I am just gonna assume anyone with the capacity to buy a RX is educated/mature enough to make their own decisions to save the Earth for our kids.

tarik · May 2002

I am just gonna assume anyone with the capacity to buy a RX is educated/mature enough to make their own decisions to save the Earth for our kids.

Now THAT is an assumption!!! Having money or style does not necessarily mean that the possession of common sense automatically comes with it. How about those who chose an LX just because they can afford one? Judging by their real need of a sahara-ready truck, common sense must have been left in the dust (wonderful pun, isn't it?) at one point. What I'm trying to say is that this discussion is dangerous, I've gone down that road before, as too many people are way too sensitive if you happen to mention THEIR perticular vehicle together with anything negative in one sentence. And let's not even get started on why people don't recycle...

Tarik

columbia2 · May 2002

I own a 2000 RX300. A few days ago I got a letter from Lexus stating that a small number of owners have reported engine damage from a condition know as oil gelling or sludge. While I don't think my rx300 has this condition, I would like hear feed back from other owners. The letter says it's because the oil isn't changed often enough. The letter further states that Lexus is confident of the reliability and durability of its engine and will therefore cover the costs of repairs to the engine in your 2000 RX 300 for 8 years from the date of purchase provided you regularly maintain your vehicle. In one sentence they blame it on the owner because the oil hasn't been changed often enough and in the next sentence they say they will pick up the cost of for repairs. Why is Lexus picking up the cost of repairs for this condition if it is truly due to the owner not changing the oil often enough? Is some one trying to hide something here? Does the vehicle have an engine defect?

bigorange30 · May 2002

This has been hashed out for months now on the following 2 boards:

hjr2 "Toyota "sludge" problem acknowledged by Toyota." May 14, 2002 6:38am

tmsusa1 "Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response" May 9, 2002 6:24am

You are right though. There seems to be an engine problem that Toyota knows about but won't admit for fear of losing face, reputation or sales I guess. They even claim they made an engine design change mid 2002 model year production that will lessen the propensity for this to happen.

chsmithins · May 2002

See the board titled, "MB M-Class vs Acura MDX vs Lexus RX300 vs BMW X5". Messages #214 and #215 have links to articles.

I also saw somewhere else on Edmunds discussions regarding this sludge problem. It evidently was people getting together sharing their problems on these Edmunds boards that led Toyota Motor to own-up to the problems with their 3 litre motors.

In the letter Toyota sent to customers it said that the 3 litre motor is a great motor and they stand behind it 100%. Near the end of the letter they state that the production of the motor will end this year with a new 3.3 litre to be introduced for 2003.

Anyway, from what I've read so far, it seems the problem of sludge occurs primarilly in those driven very short distances in very cold climates. The engine temperature never fully reaches optimum heat.

The eight year guarantee seems pretty good. It seems to me it could be used to bargain a darn good deal in these last months of 3 litre production. The engine isn't that bad but a lot of times the publicity is greater than the actual threat. I wonder . . . what does anybody else think about that?

ravl · May 2002

Bill,
You've piqued my interest again with mention of the Pirelli tires. I know this is asking a bunch and all, but I'd *love* it if you would shoot a pic and post it here. I have a feeling you've got the capability to pull this off. Pretty please?! *_*.

I'm really wanting new tires on my RX. The Michelin CT doesn't offer the look I'm going for. I'm hoping the Scorpions are closer to my thinking.
What size did you mount?

I need to try to dig out the original Silversport brochure as the car they show definitely has aftermarket tires. They have a much wider footprint.

mrrogers · May 2002

Lexus/Toyota have the only engines where the dual overhead cams are gear driven. Some other designs include belt driven cams, and chain driven cams. The theory is that the extreme pressure of the gears is shearing the oil. On the Edmund's Oil Gel site, one 3.0 V6 owner had his oil analyzed at 2,400 miles, and the viscosity of the 5W-30 oil was already down to 20 weight. I wonder if owners in mild climates would be better off using 15W-50 weight oil for nine months of the year. I realize it would not work in the wintertime.

im_brentwood · May 2002

OK.. if I get a chance before my Cousin Grabs it (She totalled her Passat so we're giving her this to trash.. I mean drive).

Here's what it looks like:

Scorpion

Bill

im_brentwood · May 2002

And mine are 225-70R16s... P-Metric.

Bill

ravl · May 2002

You're a doll! Not in a Chatty Cathy kinda way, more like a GI Joe kinda way!

They look *much* more like what I had in mind. Thanks again!

I'll still take a look at a pic of them mounted if you feel so inclined....

im_brentwood · May 2002

I'll try and get one online today!

Bill

ravl · May 2002

Thanks, Bill. I don't know if the tires guys would tolerate me asking if I could 'try on' some tires to 'see how they look'.

This way, I'll know how they affect the look of the vehicle. Tires can make such a huge difference in looks. Because we all know it is better to look good than to feel good, now dahling.

wwest · May 2002

UI was recently told by my lexus salesman of ten years that the "new" Rx will not be introduced until April of next year. His only comment was that the styling will be less minivan "like" since too many men aer complaining of that.

I'm down here in Memphis this week where my AWD T&C is and you folks can put it down all you want but for people hauling and shear volume without going into something as huge as the Sequoia it's pretty darn neat.

raddboy41 · May 2002

Oh yeah, the T&C is neat! IF YOU'RE A GIRL!!! Sequoia's are for MEN!! :^) Just kidding Willard. Did I mention that I bought it for my wife? :^)

jeffmust2 · May 2002

...they're for that inbetween group called "Service Writers" at the DC dealerships when you bring it in for repairs.

You know, the one with a single response to all problems:

"We've never had one do THAT before!"

- A Former Not-So-Grand-Caravan Owner

rxcure · May 2002

I have a 2000 RX300 and live 25 miles west of Boston so I see my share of all types of precipitation. It has handled all of the storms well, and I've even noticed that it is more comfortable in a heavy rain than any other vehicle I've owned. The '01 and '02 RX's also have traction control and skid control, which mine does not, which improves things further. Unless you are talking about extended drives on unplowed roads after a deep snowfall, the RX will work great.

rlui1 · May 2002

Do you have the AWD or FWD?

f888l888 · May 2002

Rumor has it that Toyota changed engine design in order to meet the low emission standard set by the air pollution control committee or something like that somewhere in the state of California. Toyota narrowed the passage of oil leading to the upper part of the engine, thus increasing the temperature degree by about 30 degrees. Higher temperature means cleaner burning, means lower emission. Unfortunately, extreme heat destroys the quality of the oil, reducing the protection of oil and causing the forming of sludge. Over time, the oil loses its protection. Without oil protection, the engine is sure to be ruined.

Since the nature of the oil quality is unchanged at the time when it was put into the engine, obviously, this is an engine design issue. Toyota took a short cut to cut down the emission by narrowing the passage of oil while Mercedes adopts twin sparks to increase the cleaner burning of the gas at the expense of losing one valve.

The only remedy to this engine problem is to change oil frequently, thus to ensure the quality of the oil remains constant. Or, to use fully synthetic oil and hope synthetic oil can sustain higher engine temperature without deteriorating.

ssssteve · May 2002

Yeah - it's been all over the place about the sludge issue. Sure - it might be the narrowing of the passages to increase engine temp. It might even be a design flaw that effects people that drive in areas where outdoor temp goes from cold to fairly warm back to cold etc. But I still like the concept of the gear driven overhead cams vs belt or chain driven designs that have a very long proven record.

Having had a good deal of experience with many fluid pumps (industrial use - not automotive) I has seen the impact that gear pumps and progressive cavity pumps can have on fluids. Gear pumps have definite issues with some liquids - even when the liquid is only "passing through" the pump for a very very brief period. Lubricants in a motor that are subjected to the shear forces from the gears of the cam shafts for extended periods may be subjected to a break down over a given period of time / temperature / service usage. Don't know that this is the answer but it looks like a likely cause to me. As we have seen posted here over and over - there are no other car engines that have shown this recent and surprising spike with engine sludge issues. That combined with T/L's admission of a problem with the "sludge letter" we have all received, tells me that this is more than likely the culprit.

Because after all - if this is the problem how are they going to remedy the engines? I don't see how they can re-call all of the cars with this engine and suddenly change them to a belt driven cam! Big problem! That would mean all new motors +++++. All paid for by them.

Buckle up and put on a helmet - it's going to be a tough battle!

JMHO

mrrogers · May 2002

about the possibility of redesigning the 3.0 V-6 engine to eliminate the cam gears. If they went to a chain drive, the sprockets on the end of each cam would need to be smaller than the gears they replace in order to have clearance. As long as they turn at the same speed it should be okay. I would think the gear (sprocket) on the end of the crankshaft would need to be made smaller also in order to keep the cam timing correct. Steve, Toyota would probably pay you a lot of money if you came up with a redesign that got them out of this problem! Good luck.

f888l888 · May 2002

As far as I know, only the 3,000cc engine used in Camry and RX 300 has this sludge problem. And this only applies to relatively newer model year with relatively lower mileage (less than 60,000) in coincidence with the new emission standard imposed by obscene California infamous committee. Older model year camry is doing fine.

My 470 does not subject to emission control and hence no such sludge problem.(RX300 also does not subject to emission control. But unfortunately, toyota used the car engine from camry in Rx300) I don't know if the engine design in 470 is similar to 300, but I shall not be surprised if they are similar, i.e., they are both gear driven, not chain driven.

I still believe the rumor that the root cause was narrowing passage has some credibility. Once the sludge blocked the narrowed passage, then the engine is doomed.

ssssteve · May 2002

Who knows? But I DO know that I'm not going to spend my time on a re-design or "fix" for T/L. I certainly believe they probably have a room full of engineers with all of the detailed design drawings and technical info that I can't possibly get (nor want), pouring over this problem looking for a fast and cheap way out! Got a feeling they're stuck on something - hence the full metal jacket attitude about "owners are just not taking care of their cars. It's not us, it's the poor maintenance practices of owners causing the sludge problem, which we have no control over..." (yada yada)

f888l888: I'm not saying that the reduced lubrication passage size didn't (or doesn't) cause the sludge problem - it just doesn't seem as though it would be as big of a problem to solve as trying to somehow come up with a way to drive the cams (deadly accurately while you're at it) in a fast, clean, reliable, cheap solution. That I think is all but impossible to make happen. Neither one would in any way be "cheap" from a loss stand point. But how does a loss like that stack up compared to lost future revenue from what has been a pretty solid customer base? I ain't all that sold them any more. Lot of car companies out here. They're turning into just another one in my book.

Glad this problem didn't land on my desk with a note demanding a fix! But they had better start changing their tune before a major class action lands on THEIR desk! Then the damages will hurt. Lexus of warantees?? HA!

chsmithins · May 2002

Is this problem being reflected in the sales figures?

Do any of you knowledgeable ones think that all should be okay if one is diligent with motor oil changes and maintenance in general?

If one were interested in purchasing an RX300, do you think this problem could be to a buyers advantage, or would you just stay away because of this problem?

mrrogers · May 2002

attended the new car show at the Cincinnati Convention Center. The sludge story had come out, and we looked at other SUV's in the hope of finding an alternative to the Lexus RX300. We were unsuccessful. For us, there is no other vehicle that has more appeal. The Mercedes and BMW get black marks from Consumer Reports magazine for reliability. They are not cheap either. We do not like the interiors in the Acura MDX and Buick. I think if you change your oil and filter at four months or 4,000 miles, you should be okay. The problem may be to the buyers advantage. I checked carsdirect.com for the 91311 zipcode (Chatsworth, CA north of LA), and found the quote for $150 under dealers invoice. Even after you pay a trucker to bring the car to your door, I still think that is a good deal.

bigorange30 · May 2002

Steve hit the nail right on the head I think. My bet is also that there is a team of about 100 engineers working on a fix for their engine that would be cheap although nothing will be cheap for over 3 million cars. The sludge boards did not answer questions sufficiently enough yet for me to buy a Toyota but I will continue to follow this. As far a diligent oil changes keeping you from having the problem, it helps but is no gaurantee. There are people who developed sludge even though they changed their oil every 3000 miles.

chsmithins · May 2002

thought that would be the case where it would show up in the purchase prices. I hear either a remodel or at least a new motor (or both) will be coming out next March or April. That could make the current model less appealing, too, to the market in general. I'm just thinking from the buyers perspective here.

Another reason, I think, for the decline in price to the invoice level, is that the RX is no longer a " shiney new" model with "shiney new" appeal. My wife and I agree with you that the RX, even at it's "age" is still more appealing than either the BMW and certainly the MB.

I'm in the Northwest but would certainly travel to SoCal if the price difference were big enough. It certainly appears to be.

chsmithins · May 2002

Wasn't the problem narrowed to those living in cold climates who consistantly didn't drive a sufficient distance to heat the engine properly?

I probably picked that up from this board but it seemed to make some sense to me. It can't just be random, can it?

Synthetic oil breaks down less at high temps, correct? Could that help?

bigorange30 · May 2002

Always drive long distances in only warm temperatures and use synthetics and you might be OK. Can you live with those restrictions? I don't think I could. Only if you live out in the middle of nowhere in the south maybe.

jeffmust2 · May 2002

This topic has been cooked, re-cooked, and over-cooked in Town Hall and elsewhere at dozens of websites.

Yup, Toyota/Lexus has a 3.0L V-6, in quite a few models beyond just the Camry/RX300s, that is more subceptible to oil sludge accumulation than any other engine Known to Man. And HQ and the dealers did a lousy PR and warranty non-support job with the first couple thousand vehicles so afflicted and, as a result, got their you-know-what chewed-off in Public.

To top off this PR Disaster of biblical proportions, HQ then sent out an initial customer letter that pretty much blamed owners of said afflicted vehicles for poor or non-existent oil/filter changes. Boy-oh-boy, nothing like corporate consensus management decisions...

Their 2nd letter was much better (they were bound to get something PR Right, sooner or later, even if they used a dart board for decisions) and offered owners an 8-year warranty, from date of first sale or lease, against the Sludge Monster.

As an RX owner, I probably won't have the vehicle that long but it appears the new policy will alleviate most owner's anxiety over this issue.

Except for the diehards where Toyota Did Them Wrong and won't let it go...hey, go sue 'em in Small Claims Court or take it higher.

Of course, I could be wrong.

raddboy41 · May 2002

Mobil 1 Synthetic.....PERIOD! Yep, AMSOIL synthetic should do well too. My '95 ES300 (I know this isn't one of the recall vehicles)is looking great after 90,000 miles and my old '86 MR2 went 227,000 miles without a hiccup before I traded her. The extra protection from full synthetics is irrefutable. What is refutable is whether, in the past, engines have needed this extra protection. I believe it's cheap insurance for what is otherwise a fabulous 3.0 liter engine.

pmhtv · May 2002

I own a '99 RX300. My brother-in-law wants to purchase a '02 Coach Edition RX. What is the going price for a '02 RX with the Coach Special Edition Package w/ Nav, Seat Heaters, and a Tow Hitch? He lives just north of Pittsburgh, PA, and is willing to purchase the vehicle sight unseen. I am hoping that dealers may want to "unload" remaining RX's as the summer approaches and a re-design is in the works for '03.

rxlax · May 2002

It is still to early to see any "dumping" of the RX as the release and specs of the 03 is yet to be determined but the prices are considerably down even for the Coach

I suggest you start @ carsdirect for a reference Price I put in zip 15219 and came up with MSRP(40,965) as the price but then I put in my NJ zip and came up with 37,750, for the same config of Coach fully loaded(inc HID, black pearl emblem) except for Navi.
This is what you start going to the dealers with. You might have to travel a bit to get a decent price. I can recommend someone @ Ray Catena in Jersery if your interested

im_brentwood · May 2002

Well...

If it helps, My company (Not the dealership) owns 2 RXs now, and another one we had was totalled.

No sludge. Period. And they are used in the NY City area.

As a dealer, I handle a lot of Toyotas on a wholesale level.. Haven't seen a sludged one yet.

The arbitration departments at the auctions I attend are also not aware of the problem.

What cars DO SLudge? With poor maintinence? Land Rover V8s. OTOH, I have a 1990 County with over 190K that we use for "off-road abuse" and its' been perfect...

Bill

krazyhopz · May 2002

I am going to take delivery on a 2002 RX300 next month. I don't like the tire/wheel combination. ( so much for reducing cost by making one ugly combination) and was wondering if anyone has any experience running 18s on the RX.

I have picked out some after market 18 inch wheels and looking at some 255x55s for the tires. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

wwest · May 2002

Rear suspension interferes with upgrades( and snowchains, even cable), I installed 17X8 with Michellin Cts with 30mm spacers all around.

malhokc · May 2002

For those of you with 99-00 RXs, procarparts.com how has the altezza tail lights as seen with the 2001-2002 models. They sell for $180, a lot cheaper than the dealer, $550. They are also much easier to install, since the bulb connectors have been modified to fit the 1999-2000. So manipulation of the connectors, as some of the folks have done. These are aftermarket so I don't know how they'll light up, but they look identical to the OEM. I should be getting mine in few days.

rxlax · May 2002

I am also waiting on my new tail-lights.

For more detailed info on upgrading wheels and the new style tailights checkout clublexus.com.

Be careful when upgrading the wheels on the RX as it has an extremely narrow offset of 20. Checkout Tirerack and discount tire direct before any of the other "Wheel and Tire" sites because they list Wheels that will fit. Some sites will just sell you what you like and not what fits which will cause problems. I am partial to the Konig Appeals on discount tire and the AT Italia's on TireRack. I was going to upgrade my wheels but I got some scratches on my bumper so I am going to mono color paint, Chrome A Bar and new taillights. The Rims will have to wait till next Spring. I will post pics when I am done.

Lexus RX 300

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