Isuzu Trooper

sbcooke · February 2003

I got a chance to use it yesterday after work. I plowed through a snowbank into an unplowed dirt lot. I got myself good and jammed up in TOD. I stopped, took a deep breath so I wouldn't do something foolish, put it in 4 low, backed up a foot, gave it a healthy amount of gas and plowed on through.

Maybe that is the point of the lever. So you have to stop, take a second to think about what you are doing, and then you can go at it again.

paisan · February 2003

On a side note, I noticed that I can come out of 4-low on the fly as long as I put it in neutral. Going in however requires a stop.

-mike

savvas_e · February 2003

I'd agree that the lever is likely to be actuating either electronics or vacuum. In the Holden Frontera SE or Isuzu Rodeo, the TOD and 4L is actuated by a dash mounted rotary switch. There is no lever and it's also the same transfer case.

I've also been able to come out of 4L on the move, but only at a walking pace and again only if in neutral. Is that what you experienced Mike?

paisan · February 2003

Yep that's about right savvas on the coming out of 4L in Neutral at a very slow rolling pace.

Your Fronteras come with TOD over there???? We can't get TOD in our Rodeos over here!

-mike

bawbcat · February 2003

Put your hand on the lever while you are driving the vehicle. Feel the amount of vibration. It feels like it is physically connected to the xfer case (i.e. a mechanical lever). This is just another piece of anecdotal evidence and opinion though (as is most of the info posted thus far). Anyone with a factory service manual should be able to tell us the correct answer.

paisan · February 2003

Feel your Gear selector, it vibrates as if it's connected as well, but it's fully electronic.

-mike

tkevinblanc · February 2003

I'm betting both of these are mechanical connections. Anyone with a service manual?

paisan · February 2003

If the Gear Selector was mechanical, how could you hit the button to make it start in 3rd gear?

-mike

greenmax · February 2003

Have you tried putting the gear selector in 1 or 2 gear and then push the "winter mode" button? What gear does the truck start in? Just curious.

savvas_e · February 2003

Our top of the line Frontera SE comes with TOD. I assumed that the Isuzu Rodeo would as well, as they both come from the same factory. SIA in Indiana.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=- 10003

Interesting!

ateixeira · February 2003

Isn't the exchange rate about 2 to 1? If so that's $21 grand retail for the SE, which seems to be well equipped and has TOD.

-juice

savvas_e · February 2003

Last time I looked $1 AUS = $0.59 US (or $1 US = $1.69 AUS)

tkevinblanc · February 2003

Oh. Hmm.

I still think I'm right (and now I'm edgy because of the cognitive dissonance produced by your excellent point). :0)

ateixeira · February 2003

That's still under $25 grand MSRP for an upscale model with TOD, not bad.

-juice

paisan · February 2003

The Rodeo just dropped price here. My dealer called me up to let me know. I'll see exactly what pricing it has. I wish our rodeos had TOD option

-mike

paisan · February 2003

Just watching "cats and dogs" and there is a great shot of a Trooper that the family is driving!

Go 3rd Gen Trooper!!!!

-mike

savvas_e · February 2003

I installed an inline toggle switch in the front sensor wire to the TOD control module.

Woohoo!!! 50/50 4H!!! Unfortunately the check light flashes which is a bummer and so does the TOD display.

So I got to thinking as to whether or not by installing a resistor on that input, would you get a similar result without the check light and subsequent DTC's being generated.

What I might do is place a multimeter across this wire and measure the current and voltage at different speeds and situations. Then depending on the results, I may place an inline variable resistor and a straight 12v feed (ie...not from the speed sensor) on this input and then play with the resistor settings to see at what point I can get a 50/50 split without generating a check/dtc.

The logic I'm using is that the speed sensors feed current to the module. When this current is equal front and back, then the torque apportioned to the front is minimal. When there is a variation between the two then the torque apportioned to the front is increased. The greater the variation between the speed sensors, the greater the torque to the front.

This theory will come unstuck if the sensors work by sending pulses rather than current. Then we'll just have to put up with the check light and DTC.

Any thoughts guys? Will I be stuck with a 2WD at the end of this?

savvas_e · February 2003

They'be been in a few now. Troopers should have a cult status in my mind.

Doesn't Demi Moore drive an old Trooper or Trooper II in some movie as well? Maybe "Striptease"? I may have it wrong.

Actually there's a thought for www.isuzu-suvs.com, Mike. A "Troopers in movies" section. :-)

Kirstie_H · February 2003

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Please respond with your make and model to jfallon@edmunds.com by February 28.
Thanks,
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sdc2 · February 2003

Hey, you could just put electrical tape over the flashing display so it doesn't annoy you...

Well that's my helpful input on this subject, but I'll be very interested to hear how it comes out!

savvas_e · February 2003

Nah...just really dark sunglasses

sbcooke · February 2003

Try hooking it back up normally and then disconnecting the battery? That should reset the error. Maybe the flahing lights will go away and it will function as normal?

gprodick · February 2003

How do you know that the torque split is 50/50? It sounds like the lights on the dash are going nuts, but is there some way to verify that there is truly a 50/50 split occuring? Are the TOD lights showing a 50/50 split while they flash?

savvas_e · February 2003

When I put the switch in, I went and tried it in soft sand on a beach. There was no wheel spin, it just went as it would in 4LO, but with less revs.

I'm lucky in that I have a 4WD beach park only about 15 minutes from where I live for doing this stuff.

This modification is based on the message posted by emiura about a week ago.

emiura · February 2003

Thanks for trying it and letting us know the result. Does the check light & TOD display stop flashing when you switch back to the normal TOD mode? Or does it keep flashing as an error?
I've posted this question on Japanese board but haven't gotten any responses yet.

paisan · February 2003

I'm gonna work on that, eventually

-mike

paisan · February 2003

Anyone have problems going back into 2wd after an extended stay in TOD? I was towing a car trailer yesterday and figured I'd put it in 2wd, but when I hit the button for 2wd it went into 2wd but the display was flashing the rear wheels. I'm thinking that there is some ice/muck somewhere near the transfer case preventing the sensors from going fully into 2wd mode. I tried the usual, backup 100 ft, put it in 4-lo, etc. etc.

-mike

serrano · February 2003

If you'll note, the gear selector that's mounted to the center console is firmly affixed there. There is probably a cable that is attached to the transmission to shift gears. With the exception of the new BMW 745 and maybe a few others, there is going to be some kind of mechanical connection to shift into drive, reverse, etc. Just because there are electronics that control the shifting doesn't mean that you don't put the thing into gear mechanically.

The 4-low lever has a vinyl or leather surround on it. Why? Because it's directly connected to the transfer case and moves with the engine and transmission. Put your Trooper into gear, step on the brake, then blip the gas. That lever will move when the engine torques in its mounts. There is little doubt in my mind that the 4-low lever mechanically moves the low range gearset, as well as triggering SOTF if it is not already engaged. With high range, there is no gear ratio changes--only the TOD clutch engages electrically.

Mike, maybe your SOTF is just failing to disengage. I don't know if there are sensors up there monitoring--probably is though. Ford Explorers with an electrically-shifted transfer case used to freeze up unless they were exercised regularly. A couple raps with a ball-peen hammer usually freed things up. Give the SOTF a couple of whacks and see if it cures the problem. Can't hurt unless you wail on it. And it might even make you feel better {:)

Tom

paisan · February 2003

In my SVX the gear selector doesn't mechanically do anything.

Yeah my guess is the SOTF is not disengaging properly, probably due to being packed with tons of Ice and crapola from driving through countless 3' snow banks and what not.

I'm gonna wait til it has time to thaw out and see if it still is giving me trouble.

-mike

sbcooke · February 2003

I have had that happen to me. Usually the backing up, shifting to park, etc. works.

What eventually fixed it?

breakor · February 2003

My conclusion is that both are firmly connected just as Serrano noted. For those of you with manuals try page 7A-33 for a drawing showing the AT lever, cables and linkages. For the TOD look at 4B2-3.

jbkennedy · February 2003

A Trooper is the family vehicle in the movie "Dogs & Cats"

ateixeira · February 2003

I've seen lots and lots of Isuzus in movies. The Axiom even plays a co-starring role in the Spy Kids series.

-juice

duktrooper · February 2003

Has anyone on this board with a late model Trooper('98+) switched over to manual hubs. If so, what brand did you get, price, and are you happy with conversion?

I've been reading a lot about the various benefits of this mod vs. loss of brief convenience and am seriously considering it. THanks.John.

sbcooke · February 2003

What are the benefits and drawbacks?

serrano · February 2003

Benefits - the front half-shafts, differential, and front propeller shaft no longer turn constantly. Saves gas and wear-and-tear on all of those components.

Drawbacks - no more shift-on-the-fly. You must stop to engage the hubs before engaging 4wd.

Tom

paisan · February 2003

TOD.

-mike

sbcooke · February 2003

I am confused...I am not really sure how the hubs function, so take this with a grain of salt...however my understanding was that the driveshafts are turning all the time without the hubs engaged, and then when you press the TOD button or throw the low lever, it automatically engages the front hubs via vacuum or air pressure. So then all manual locking hubs would give you would possibly be is more strength?

I also don't see how you would lose TOD? If the fronts are engaged manually or automatically and the transfer case applied power to the front half of the drivetrain via the electromagnetic clutch you would still have that function?

So based on the above posts, it makes me think that the hubs on the TOD equipped troopers are always engaged, and the only way power is applied is either the TOD system or the center locker?

duktrooper · February 2003

Mike..everything I've read from those who've researched and done it(mostly on 4x4 wire)say you do not lose TOD, unless your manual hubs aren't locked. If your man. hubs are locked, everything works the same. I'll look up some posts for reference.

I believe there are others on this site who have done, yes?

cwmoser · February 2003

I had the same problem too. Put it in Reverse to back up a few feet and the TOD display stopped blinking.

breakor · February 2003

FWIW, after doing my research I went with Superwinch manual hubs on my 99 about 3 years ago. Warn has a good reputation and a sturdy looking unit. However my unscientific research found more complaints about them and good comments about Superwinch. Hence my choice. I have however subsequently read reports of people having problems doing the Superwinch install correctly, at least on older Troopers. I don't know if that is a Superwich or installer problem.

With the manual hubs in the locked position your vehicle behaves EXACTLY as before. Namely the front hubs are locked in. To go in 4wd you still have to engage TOD or 4wd low (i.e. engage the SOTF unit and drive the front drive shaft from the TOD unit).

With the manual hubs in unlocked your hubs are now unlocked. This stops the tires from turning the front cvs. Herein lies the advantage - less cv wear and a nominal mpg savings from less moving parts.

doddmcco · February 2003

Hello Everyone,
My 99' is ready for its 30000 mile service. I was wondering what it entails and what its going to cost me. We use this vehicle purely for in town driveing and its never towed anything. I was wondering if I could take it to a local mechanic and do just the essential service items instead of letting the dealership bend me over. Any info will be appreciated.
TIA
Dodd

cwmoser · February 2003

Cost me $568.44. Not cheap but I wanted the warrantee and insure everything is right.

bluedevils · February 2003

Regardless of where you have the service done (dealer or independent shop), look at what the owners manual specifies and decide what to have done. If you go to the dealer and say 'give me the 30k service' you will pay much more money than you should. There are some important items to be done at that mileage, but many of the things in the owners manual are checks or inspections and the dealer is making a lot of money without doing much to help your truck.

Plus, many dealers will add on even more 'services' at the typical maintenance intervals. Often, these are not needed but are simply there to give the dealer more revenue and profit.

I feel that I take pretty good care of our 1998 Trooper, but I have NEVER taken it anywhere and had a XX,000 mile service performed. I always look at the specified maintenance items in the owners manual, consider how our Trooper is driven (plenty of city driving, but not very hard-duty; no towing; no off-roading; light gas and brake pedals; etc.), and decide what things need to be done and when.

Your 1999 may have some of the 5yr/60k mile powertrain warranty left, so that's a consideration. However, it is very unlikely that you will 1) have any powertrain problems in the near future (with the possible exception of the intake manifold gasket, if yours hasn't been replaced under warranty already); and 2) have the dealer examine your service records to determine if they can deny the work under warranty due to improper or neglected maintenance. I.e. if your TOD unit dies, it won't have been because you didn't spend $600 on the 30k service and I think most all dealers wouldn't try to nail you on it. If they can easily get the warranty claim approved by Isuzu and get reimbursed for the work, they will gladly make the fix.

That's just my opinion.

sbcooke · February 2003

Mine came in under $400. $254 for service, $115 for parts. I was somewhat satisfied with the service. However when I went back for a warranty repair 2 weeks later they told me I needed new brakes...something they are supposed to check at 30K...which means I had to pay for the bearing repack twice, once during the 30K and then when they removed the front rotors.

bluedevils · February 2003

That's poor treatment by the dealer. sbcooke, I wouldn't have had the guts to demand a free re-do, but that is exactly what they should done for you.

Those are the kind of stories that really make me think dealers don't always perform all of the 'checks' and 'inspections' that they claim to perform. Or at the very least, they do a sloppy or cursory inspection when they should be doing more.

I was glad to learn, before I had any of the work done, that it makes sense to do the wheel bearing repack at the same time as brake work. I'm glad I didn't pay for this to be done at 50-60k, then need it re-done when a brake job was performed at 75k.

savvas_e · February 2003

It does both!

A couple of times the check light and TOD display kept blinking until I turned off the ignition and then started again.

It seems that it will usually return to normal after a few seconds.

sbcooke · February 2003

I didn't demand, but expressed my anger. They gave me a little break in the labor costs, but not enough. I am going to also ask for a free oil change next time I bring it in.

It is a catch 22, I found a dealer that will do warranty work, reasonably well, so I cannot slam them too hard because I need to go back.

jslakie · February 2003

Hi, I recently purchased a 2002 Trooper S4WD and was very happy to find this useful forum as well as other Trooper resources. The Trooper is both my first 4X4 and first "new" vehicle. I got a great deal and am thrilled with the truck so far. I live near D.C. and the Trooper has had no trouble with our recent snowfall. In fact, I never even needed to use more than TOD to negotiate the 22" snowfall!

I've begun a number of aftermarket modifications, the latest of which was the install of a new Alpine CD/MP3 head unit. The install went fine save for a couple of things. So far, I have not been able to get the trim peive back on the unit as it is a tight squeeze. I'm hoping someone may have some tips? Also, the CD works great but my radio reception is very bad..full of static. I connected the larger of the two antenna wires but left the other alone. Does anyyone have any experience with these issues? Any advice would be welcomed. Thanks!

sbcooke · February 2003

Welcome.

"In fact, I never even needed to use more than TOD to negotiate the 22" snowfall!"

TOD is not a lightweight AWD system. It is essentially 4WD High that has a clutch to allow for slippage between front and rears on pavement and neat computer tricks to re-route power as needed.

Isuzu Trooper

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